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Thread Number: 92360
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Washer That Maintains Temperatures? |
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| Post# 1169610 1/15/2023 at 17:09 (460 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina) | ||
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| Post# 1170105 , Reply# 1 1/22/2023 at 11:46 (453 days old) by Jerrod_Six (Eastern Pennsylvania, USA) | ||
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I guess the answer to your question is probably NO. | ||
Post# 1170106 , Reply# 2 1/22/2023 at 11:50 (453 days old) by Launderess  (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Post# 1170111 , Reply# 3 1/22/2023 at 13:37 (453 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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There was my old Whirlpool duet.
The Energy Star rating for current WP washer is 159KWH and 148KWH and comparable Maytag models have similar ratings as opposed to LG's all having 105KWH. Logic would lend me to believe the WP products use/keep heater on more than similar type cycles by LG. But I cannot say for sure given I've not been around any of these newer models. | ||
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Post# 1170204 , Reply# 4 1/24/2023 at 06:08 (451 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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The Maytag MHW5630MBK front load washer has an internal heater so I imagine it could maintain hot water throughout the wash cycle. Plus, it has a dual temp feature, where the wash starts out cold to remove stains that are best removed under cool temps, and then get hotter to deal with stains that are best removed with hot water.
I have its predecessor, a Maytag Neptune 7500, and it's been working great for at least 20 years now. CLICK HERE TO GO TO SudsMaster's LINK | ||
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Post# 1170217 , Reply# 5 1/24/2023 at 11:49 (451 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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 RJ bought a 5630 pair last week, in Metallic Slate color which apparently is a Lowe's exclusive but presumably the machines function like the White or Volcano Black choices. Perhaps I can test the heater function if an opportunity arises by monitoring wattage draw throughout a cycle with my Kill-a-Watt meter ... although that will entail monitoring it for the entire wash period. What cycle and options should be selected? | ||
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Post# 1170220 , Reply# 6 1/24/2023 at 12:40 (451 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
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Post# 1170222 , Reply# 7 1/24/2023 at 12:56 (451 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1170225 , Reply# 8 1/24/2023 at 13:58 (451 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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| Post# 1170229 , Reply# 9 1/24/2023 at 14:45 (451 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
The challenge is to find one with a drum larger than 4.5 cu  | ||
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Post# 1170231 , Reply# 10 1/24/2023 at 15:17 (451 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis) |
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Mega-sized front loader drums
I don't understand the need for gargantuan washer drums either. My 3.2 cu. ft. DD top loader is plenty big enough. The other day I did a load of towels that consisted of 10 bath towels, four or five hand towels, and around 10 washrags. I'm not sure I would need anything bigger than this, perhaps a large family might but my household is only two people and I do about three loads per week on average.
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Post# 1170236 , Reply# 11 1/24/2023 at 15:32 (451 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"What's the deal with all of these mega size front loader drums?"
American housewives or households never totally warmed up to "compact" front loaders. This is one reason why that platform didn't take, compared to large top loading washing machines capacity of smaller H-axis machines was seen as minimal. Consumer Reports and similar publications long dinged Miele, Bosch, Creda, Asko and any other front loader sold in USA due to capacity. Maytag then later Whirlpool upped game by introducing h-axis washers with larger capacities and it's been off to races ever since. American housewives or households never also took to the European way of laundry; small but frequent loads. Rather many or most still clung to old ways of doing huge amounts of laundry at a go (wash day). For that you need at minimum a front loader with 18lb capacity. Then consider Americans prefer to wash large or bulky items such as duvets, quilts and such at home and often. Historically many European households just send such things out to a commercial laundry. With cycle times ever increasing front loaders sold in USA tout their uber capacity as way of getting wash day over quickly because more can be done at a go. One of many things Americans complained about when visiting Europe and using a front loader in someone's flat or something was that machine "took ages" to get on with things compared to their top loader at home. Finally consider American laundry market supports huge front loading washers because their homes are often designed for such. In Europe after dust of WWII settled by plan or whatever front loading washing machines came to dominate markets. But also they were compact enough to fit into kitchens, airing cupboards, bathrooms, etc... Space is often at a premium for many homes in Europe and huge front loading washers just don't fit. IIRC Miele and others do sell large or giant front loading washers in EU markets, but their percentage against total sales is rather small. When many Europeans have large amounts of wash and or bulky things again they simply send them out or go to laundromat. | ||
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Post# 1170238 , Reply# 12 1/24/2023 at 15:42 (451 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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My older Miele washer certainly maintains temps. Know this because there is a clear audible "thunk" sound when heater is engaged then shut off.
On more modern AEG washers am not sure as they don't give any such indication. If had to guess the AEG toplader does maintain temps (it better given cycles that stretch into a bit over three hours). Say this because can see via converter amount of power machine is pulling. When heater is engaged there is of course a visible increase in current draw. Anyone who wishes to test if their washer does indeed maintain temps should invest in a Kill-A-Watt or similar device that measures power draw. | ||
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Post# 1170240 , Reply# 13 1/24/2023 at 15:59 (451 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1170241 , Reply# 14 1/24/2023 at 16:01 (451 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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| Post# 1170267 , Reply# 15 1/24/2023 at 21:45 (450 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina) | ||
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Glenn I think you should try whites and hot to see how long it holds the temp during the wash phase.
If Miele made a 4.5 cu ft washer it would be a no brainer for me. Unfortunately I need that size. I do one load each day and my Speed Queen 9 series doesn’t really fit everything sometimes. I’ve been leaning to the Whirlpool 8620 or the touchscreen version. I like those due to the easy access to the pump through the load n go drawer. It doesn’t have prewash, but it seems like the best compromise for my lifestyle. | ||
| Post# 1170268 , Reply# 16 1/24/2023 at 22:08 (450 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina) | ||
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Meant Easy Access to *Filter* | ||
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Post# 1170283 , Reply# 17 1/25/2023 at 01:15 (450 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Miele's 4XXX series washers had 4.0 cuFt capacity (claimed).
The W1 series claims 2.6 capacity Miele like many other brand of washers from Europe get away with greater capacity washers but keeping same overall footprint (almost0 by making drum deeper and bit wider. Miele did this with their W1926 and W1966 among others. This bumped capacity up from 5kg to 6kg Miele claims their W1 series can handle up to bit over 17.6lbs of wash. This compared to SQ residential front loaders that claim 18lbs. Unlike their tried (and failed) uber sized Miele 4XXX series washers, the W1 series offers greater capacity but still will work with European laundry situations. The larger W4XXX would not. Ironically Miele's "Little Giant" washers are rated for slightly less capacity (15lbs) than W1. www.designerappliances.co... It's worth noting Bosch also entered and quickly withdrew their uber capacity front loader (NeXXT). That washer claimed 4.2 cuFt capacity. It just doesn't seem as if European laundry machine brands do uber sized front loaders well for domestic machines. Commercial, OPL and laundromat is another matter. Here is a clip from Miele Canada discussing front loader capacity. Personally feel unless one is going to be washing king sized bedding such as duvets or eiderdowns at home, about 18 pound capacity is more than sufficient. | ||
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Post# 1170306 , Reply# 18 1/25/2023 at 11:01 (450 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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| Post# 1170307 , Reply# 19 1/25/2023 at 11:02 (450 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina) | ||
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Post# 1170308 , Reply# 20 1/25/2023 at 11:08 (450 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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John, the WP washers do have a presoak option, but if it is anything like my Duet, it advances into wash without draining/spinning before the wash begins. I'd suggest getting the 8620 as the app for the 9620 is pretty bad from what I've heard. I wanted to get a WP when I had to replace the Duet, but the only model available was the 560 and that was just unacceptable, hence the LG.
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Post# 1170309 , Reply# 21 1/25/2023 at 11:25 (450 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Reply #19 | ||
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Post# 1170311 , Reply# 22 1/25/2023 at 11:45 (450 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1170351 , Reply# 23 1/25/2023 at 20:05 (450 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Weight and capacity aren't always exact one to one comparisons.
My older Miele in theory can wash 11 pounds/5 kg of wash. But even the owners manual states for loads of very absorbent items such as terry toweling, best to slightly underload. If one loads more modern AEG washer to old school standard of "full drum leaving fist of space between top of load and inner drum), often machine will display capacity/overload 120% or maybe more. Have never gone above 120% but there you are then. Obviously some items absorb more water than others which will increase total weight when things are fully wetted down. Then you have fact certain items don't compact down when wet much or at all. You aren't going to be loading say 18 pounds of crisp percale bed linens into a washer even if that is full stated capacity. Things even when fully wet won't compact down much if at all giving a poor wash. Especially when new denim jeans and other things don't compact down much if at all. Overload washer and you'll not only get a poor wash but badly creased things as well. You'll notice whenever a program is designed for "no iron" or one wants minimal creasing either by dedicated cycle or whatever machine is usually loaded only to 1/3 to 1/2 capacity. From SQ owners manual: Loading the Washer Load Articles "Load items by the amount of space they take up, not by their weight. Mix large and small items in a load to get the best washing results. Load items loosely into the wash drum. The bulk of the clothes rather than the weight will determine load size." manualsfile.com/product/pwj9h4t6... | ||
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Post# 1170353 , Reply# 24 1/25/2023 at 20:10 (450 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Post# 1170367 , Reply# 25 1/25/2023 at 23:14 (449 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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washers with mega sized tubs Most people are stupid enough to stuff everything into a tub. They then use cold and quick cycles and complain their wash was still dirty. Duh you're not gonna get clean clothes! | ||
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Post# 1170372 , Reply# 26 1/26/2023 at 00:10 (449 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"the towels shown in that ABT video lok NOTHING like the bath/hand towels or wash cloths I have in my home."
Cannot be sure but those hand and bath towels in Abt video are either of woven textiles or not so plush terry cloth. Woven hand and even bath towels are still common enough in Europe. Also terry towels aren't always the thick and thirsty versions found commonly on this side of pond. Bath linen made of pure Turkish tend to be smoother than Egyptian or other cotton. www.designerliving.com/ge... Personally have been moving my household over to waffle weave towels. Have a stash nabbed from France years ago and been adding to it ever since. They are absorbent, dry wonderfully and are durable. Best bit is they take up far less room in washer so more make "100% capacity) compared to say thick and thirsty heavy terry towels and wash cloths. | ||
| Post# 1170383 , Reply# 27 1/26/2023 at 08:53 (449 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina) | ||
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According to LG warm is supposed to be 104 degrees on the normal cycle with a warm rinse option for front loaders. This must be outdated, because members here have confirmed that this is not true. It also shows no selection for extra hot on any of the cycles except the default on sanitary.
www.lg.com/us/support/hel... | ||
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Post# 1170400 , Reply# 28 1/26/2023 at 13:45 (449 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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John, unfortunately, that is very outdated material. LG did away with a temperature option containing a warm rinse about the same time WP did, if not before. Back in 2011 WP & LG both had steam generators and both firms eventually did away with that design about the sme time. The steam geneartor was far more effective than how steam is genrated now--just having a small pool of water in the sump/out tub area near the heater that causes wafts of steam to rise up from down below over the load. A lot of people argued with me over time because it didn't make sens for WP product seqence for steam to be regular wash phase, then drain, do a distribution speed spin, pause, add water to a resevoir near the top of the machine and dispsenser drawer, then spend 18-24 minutes heatng that smalll resevoir's amount of water into steam and shoots out into the tub (top left) over the load and gets very hot and invariably was extremely effective with the combnation of soppy wet fabrics still containing wash water chemical make up in the fabris. I was disheartened when I learned from HEnrik here taht both companies had done away with their steam generators in the washers probably due to cost.
As for the specification of 104 degree warm water on Normal, in their current design, that is only a capability with the heaviest soil level. Otherwise all other soil levels yield figures I have shown previously. Yes, LG did in the early 2010 decade provide those temperatures that were cited in their online literature. But it's way different now, maybe only here in the U.S. There was a member who found a discarded model back form that generation (like WM0624) or something like that. I looked up the manual onlne. Back then towels cycle was lumped into the category of being able to add steam or extra hot. Possibly even perm press. But the reality was, it was from back when my 2011 Duet was new on the market and the cycles on the LG offering steam or extra hot were very similar to my Duet, which as far as I was concerned was the standard of arrangement of features and heat were similar. I will put temps in C for right now as displayed. I did two loads 2 days. Both on Normal one with hot and one with warm wash. Warm is obtained by alternating between hot and cold fill, not a mixing of the two. Unless extra hot is selected, hot also ends up with some alternating hot and cold. Both loads with cold outside, cabinet temp was 20C & 21C. The hot load filled with hot water and ended up at 38C and quickly went down to 35C. By the end of the 15 minute wash the temp had declined to 32C. Warm wash load after fill wat at 37C. Then began declining and by the end of the main wash as 31C. Cycle where the heater will stay on (PP, Whites, Bedding, Towels) hot fill will otp out at 45C. With my water heater set at 120F, loads have been known to finish filling at 45C and begin to drop slowly since the target temp has been satisfied and won't come back on. Warm loads will fill between 33C & 35C and gradually decline from there. | ||
| Post# 1170523 , Reply# 29 1/27/2023 at 21:24 (447 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina) | ||
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Thanks for the great info, Bob on the LGs. If it turns out that Whirlpool doesn’t hold temps I’m thinking I may just go with Speed Queen. I have a tank water right next to my laundry set to 140 at the tap. I have my washer outlet valves set to 105 degrees for warm. I’m thinking if I run a prewash, with the dual stainless steel tubs, it will hold temps decently to pretty well in the main wash. The only thing I won’t have is that gradual temperature climb. On the other hand I will have a prewash for my sweaty synthetics which were a problem for my last Maytag 4000 series front loader without the prewash.
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Post# 1170528 , Reply# 30 1/27/2023 at 23:41 (447 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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sweaty cottons How do you think it will handle your sturdy, sweaty, everyday cottons? | ||
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Post# 1170529 , Reply# 31 1/27/2023 at 23:57 (447 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Starting from cold then gradually heating to hot or boiling water temps is not the huge benefit many would believe.
Gradual heating of water came from European washing machines (front loaders) for a host of reasons. Primary among them was tendency to wash at or above 140 degrees F. You also have fact few European homes have vast reserves of tanked hot water supply. Even with dual fill washers a heater was necessary to boost or maintain wash temps. Nowadays of course most washers sold in Europe are cold fill only meaning all heating is done by machine which sort of makes sense in most situations. Immersing any laundry in temps above 100 to 110 degrees F at first will cause body secretions (which are protein based in nature) along with many other stains to become set almost permanently. In old days when soap was queen of wash day and things were done by hand or with semi-automatic washers whites/colourfast, any else going to be washed in hot or boiling water, was presoaked or prewashed in cold water. Modern detergents work perfectly well in cold (86 degrees F) to warm water thus if one isn't going to be using "hot" such pre washing/soaking isn't necessary usually. Commercial or industrial laundries simply do a short flush (about five minutes or so) with cold or warm water before going onto main wash. SQ washers at local laundromat follow this route regardless of cycle chosen. It's a bit wasteful with water but for certain loads one could do a short flush in warm water (using final rinse/starch cycle, but only draining water no spinning afterwards), then pre-wash in warm followed by a hot main wash. By that time of main wash machine will be warmed and pipes flushed of cold water. | ||
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Post# 1170530 , Reply# 32 1/28/2023 at 00:05 (447 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Here's another thing
Various consumer groups in EU have tested and confirmed many washers do not reach or even sometimes come anywhere near chosen temp. A 60 degree C wash may only go up to 50 or 54 degrees C before thermostat goes off and remains so for duration of wash. This likely is almost certainly true for front loaders sold world over.
All those banging on about doing 60 degree C or boil washes may in fact be using temps ten or more degrees below. One supposes on both sides of pond this has to do with government mandates on energy use. Few consumers have means of testing wash water temps or likely even care to investigate if getting what is chosen. Far as washing machine makers are concerned it probably falls under "what you don't know doesn't hurt you" | ||
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Post# 1170539 , Reply# 33 1/28/2023 at 07:52 (447 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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I don't have the latest issue at hand, but our consumer magazine found most washers to reach or surpass 60C when using the non-Eco Cotton cycle. I think both Miele models were even close to 70C.
Actual temps for some cycles have to listed in the user manual now or, for the ECO cycle at least, can be downloaded via the procuct information sheet that's linked right next to the energy label. These look like media.miele.com/downloads/0c/02/... media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/... | ||
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Post# 1170547 , Reply# 34 1/28/2023 at 10:25 (447 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Well glad they've got that cracked.
www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/... Using an infrared thermometer my AEG Lavamat only shows about 54-55 degrees C for 60 degree C wash. | ||
| Post# 1170556 , Reply# 36 1/28/2023 at 12:27 (447 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina) | ||
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| Post# 1170581 , Reply# 37 1/28/2023 at 17:03 (447 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina) | ||
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Post# 1170583 , Reply# 38 1/28/2023 at 17:40 (447 days old) by Logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 1170584 , Reply# 39 1/28/2023 at 18:16 (447 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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