Thread Number: 93080  /  Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
So it has been (probably) decided - EU efficiency laws for houses 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 1177070   4/4/2023 at 01:52 (386 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

There has been huge discussions on both national and EU level about housing efficiency.

Germany is planning on banning any new heating systems that can not run on at least 65% renewable fuel.
Which basically means almost any combustion based heating system. By 2024 or 2025.

There is a carve out for installing gas heating if it is possible to convert that to hydrogen later on IF the supplying company does intend to convert to hydrogen - which is one of these quasi- possibilities that will either be not usable at all or won't end up going anywhere.



At the same time, the EU has decided (or is on the way to deciding) that all houses below a certain efficiency have to meet or exceed that efficiency standard by 2030 or 2033 respectively.

Now we have the first estimates at efficiency levels that need to be reached.

By 2033, all houses will need to use below 130kWh per square meter per year.



Our house was remodeld and extended in the second half of the 80s.
We were looking at using a German subsidy program to do a complete efficiency renovation last year.
That program has been cut since though.
However, we still have the planning documentation that compares several improvements.

My mum has already ordered new windows since the current ones are starting to fail after 35 years of service.
Since she has underfloor heating installed in part of the lowest of the flats she'll be moving into the basement ceiling will be partially insulated aswell.

Once she has all of the basement ceiling insulated (part from aboth, part from below) - our house will be down from 170kWh to 140kWh.
That will slot us into the second renovation timeline.



Given the installation of a heatpump will bring us way below the required levels and heating load according to that planing documentation is in range for a reasonable heatpump and our heating system (condensing oil furnace for both hot water and heating) will probably need replacing until then, that's not to big if a hazzle.


However, there are estimations that several hundreds of thousands of buildings need far more extensive renovations.

Now that there are first guess as to what the EU might use as efficiency targets - which will only get more specific as time goes on - these numbers will get more and more realistic.



As much as that will suck financially for many of us - for our family as well - that step was obvious to come at some point and had to come sometime before 2050.




Post# 1177183 , Reply# 1   4/4/2023 at 20:23 (385 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        
Progress.

 bradfordwhite's profile picture
Hopefully there will be subsidies to help adapt.

Post# 1177322 , Reply# 2   4/6/2023 at 13:29 (384 days old) by Davey7 (Chicago)        

Norway, while not, obviously, in the EU, banned oil central heating several years ago. And by banned, I made forced removal of oil fired boilers. Not many people had them anyway, it's primarily an all-electric country where it's cheaper to heat with electricity than wood (I've never seen or heard of domestic natural gas there). Similar situation in Sweden, nobody has installed oil-fired heating for 30 years (last hurrah was the 70s for that). There was never much natural gas there other than some older parts of cities and in the south adjacent to Denmark where there is gas heating, but still rare, since most Swedes prefer district or ground source/exhaust air heat pumps. Their houses are close to passive standards anyway and I think Norway was moving towards passive standards as well.

With the uncertainty of oil supplies in the short term and eventual shortages longer term, these are necessary if hard changes. We are eventually going to be faced with the same problem in the US - if I were building a house it would be very low energy consumption (plus I don't like paying utility bills).

Post# 1177324 , Reply# 3   4/6/2023 at 13:46 (384 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

It's one of these things that many Germans currently say that I personally just can not understand.


Owning a house is EXPENSIVE, regardless of situation.
And many of those who currently shout about "Oh we can't afford the new laws being passed" bought some old house for cheap, did nothing but the basics to it, had decades to do something about it, and now that the very obvious step that has been discussed the last 20 years comes, they act all shocked.

And I don't want to downplay their fears.
Our housing market - be it ownership or renting - is very fragile currently.
And the coming years will make that quite a bit worse, most likely.



Point is:
A lot of the outrage is people benefitting from regulations favouring gas, living nicely on the cheap route.
Half of Europe is already on the way to more efficient housing - but no, this country could not be asked to maybe pay forward to the next generations.

If one can't afford a renovation for a house it's a really shit situation.

But a lot of people from my generation can't afford real estate ever.
And I don't see why we should pay 50 years down the line for people to keep their living standard higher than they can finance now.



Programs for subsidies exist - some making more sense than others, and some being more worth than others.

New programs have been promised - but on the other hand, several programs had to be cut or suspended last year because they were underfunded.

German politics is very much "Say much, do much, but do not actually pay up for it" and has been for the past few years.
Uncannily, the same way that many people act now.


Post# 1177351 , Reply# 4   4/6/2023 at 19:59 (383 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture

I don't fully understand how Germany is surviving this heating season.  They are supposed to be dependent on Russian oil, which has been cut off because the freak putin.  

But apparently ... the U.S. is providing NG..... some how from all the fracking that's gone on.

 

And has Germany officially shut down all it's nuclear plants?  As they said they were doing just a few years back.
Post# 1177392 , Reply# 5   4/7/2023 at 03:18 (383 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Almost all

 The 3 currently online were supposed to shut of at the end of 2022, but now will shut down mid April.
Those 3 are "Konvoi" reactors - the newest German reactor type which was supposed to streamline construction and authorisation by unifying a ton of relevant stuff, but that never played out due to Germany being Germany.


We as a country saved way more gas than expected. I turned down my space from 70F down to 64/65F for most of the days for winter, only turning it up for showering and only the bathroom then.

And we are getting tons of liquid natural gas delivered from oil countries.
For "horrendous" prices - and we ordered way to much.


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