Thread Number: 93128  /  Tag: Refrigerators
Frigidaire Refrigerator Explodes
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Post# 1177686   4/9/2023 at 12:52 (381 days old) by WhiteWhiskers (Silicon Valley, California)        

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Frightening!

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Post# 1177696 , Reply# 1   4/9/2023 at 17:11 (381 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Some of the responses say it's because of new refrigerants other than Freon are actually full of hydrocarbons (like propane) and can explode. One reply says hang onto your old fridge.

 

IDK, I'd have to do a little research on this. But my 25 year old KA fridge works just fine. Still.


Post# 1177699 , Reply# 2   4/9/2023 at 17:46 (381 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Almost all new refrigerators use R600 which is butane

combo52's profile picture
Our 600 has been in use for over a decade in Europe, and for quite a few years here in the US.

It’s pretty unlikely something like this could happen I dare say that Frigidaire will end up paying the entire bill as the homeowners insurance will go after Frigidaire

It was a whirlpool side-by-side that blew up in Florida and we wondered if it was an early R 600 model, turns out there was a meth lab running in the house and it had something to do with the chemicals they were using to make meth.

John


Post# 1177707 , Reply# 3   4/9/2023 at 19:17 (381 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

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One way to clean the 'fridge.....


Post# 1177715 , Reply# 4   4/9/2023 at 20:03 (381 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

And the dog is saying, "It was like this when I got here."

Post# 1177730 , Reply# 5   4/9/2023 at 21:25 (381 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)        
Or . . .

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The refrigerator blew up my homework.


Post# 1177737 , Reply# 6   4/10/2023 at 00:15 (380 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Well, I used to be a chemist of sorts, and I'd have to research what involved in making methamphetamine, but that part sounds like it could well have contributed to the danger.

 

OK, just googled it. Here's a summary of meth lab hazardous chemicals:

 

Acetone/ethanol: highly flammable.

Red phosphorus: explosive above 260C.

Hypophosporus acid: sub for red phosphorus, even  more dangerous

Lithium metal: explosion and fire hazard

 

Plus other chemicals that can cause damage to body tissues.

 

Nah, glad I never took a job in a meth lab.

 

note: My KA SxS fridge was MFG in 2000.

 



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Post# 1177738 , Reply# 7   4/10/2023 at 00:25 (380 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Also, just took a peek inside my KA SxS fridge. It contains R134a, which is a type of Freon. According to my Google search, R134a stopped being mfg in 2021, although existing stocks can be used to service older equipment.

 

I think!


Post# 1177750 , Reply# 8   4/10/2023 at 04:55 (380 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Ok, I'll ask... what was wrong with R134a?


Post# 1177751 , Reply# 9   4/10/2023 at 05:25 (380 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        
Well, according to Google

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"R-134a is a potent greenhouse gas with a GWP (global warming potential) value of 1,430. In other words, the greenhouse effect of the R-134a refrigerant is 1,430 times the 100-year warming potential of the same volume of carbon dioxide."


Post# 1177763 , Reply# 10   4/10/2023 at 10:33 (380 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

I had seen the video prior to this posting. The lady doesn't seem like someone who would be running a meth lab in her home.

Post# 1177904 , Reply# 11   4/11/2023 at 23:12 (378 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

RE reply #7
Don't you know how to search something on Google?


Post# 1177941 , Reply# 12   4/12/2023 at 13:24 (378 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
I mean

She literally had a tech on the device days before.

He serviced the freezer side fan.
If he scraped the evap and caused a tiny leak, that could very well have caused a potentially explosive mixture to form in the freezer.

Unfortunately, in this case, the leak was probably INSIDE the fridge, with very little air exchange to the outside.
Much more likely to form an explosive mixture under these circumstances.



It is true that R134a is much less volatile.

But much more environmentally damaging.

Going back a couple decades, the very first fridges used pure ammonia. Exploding fridges weren't terribly uncommon in these days.




But thinking further:
R290 has been in use in heat pump tumble dryers for a few years now, as well as fridges over here.

And I have yet to hear of any explosion regarding a fridge, freezer or dryer.

I guess it is very much a case of "If it works it works, if it dosen't it REALLY dosen't."


Post# 1177978 , Reply# 13   4/13/2023 at 02:38 (377 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Refrigerant leaks in refrigerators and freezers, etc.

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I have been complaining for over 20 years, but the thickness of the aluminum evaporator‘s in refrigerators and freezers has decreased to the thickness of a throwaway beer can.

Millions of refrigerators fail every year due to small leaks. It wouldn’t cost the manufacturer two dollars to use a heavier gauge tubing and have a durable evaporator.

Maybe this issue will take on more urgency now that they’re using a flammable refrigerant they need to build these things properly.

As part of the drive to be more sustainable in operating cost as well as disposal waste the Consumer Product Safety Commission or the EPA should require a 12 year warranty on the refrigeration systems of all home refrigerators, and freezers .

This would give the manufactures the incentive to build them properly.

John.


Post# 1177981 , Reply# 14   4/13/2023 at 02:53 (377 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Tom,

 

Of course I know how to search something on Google.

 

Do you?

 


Post# 1177983 , Reply# 15   4/13/2023 at 03:20 (377 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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I think Tom asked chetlahem. Apparently you both have blocked someone so the Reply numbers are mixed up. I haven’t blocked anyone and for me it’s reply# 8 as it looks.

Post# 1177988 , Reply# 16   4/13/2023 at 03:44 (377 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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but the thickness of the aluminum evaporator‘s in refrigerators and freezers has decreased to the thickness of a throwaway beer can.
I believe this design is used to increase efficiency ratings. This is also becoming a problem in newer heat pumps as well, reducing their lifespan to 10 years or less.

Post# 1177991 , Reply# 17   4/13/2023 at 03:53 (377 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Thiner evaporator tubing

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Would not make a refrigerator the least bit more efficient in operation.

It’s done for cost savings and cost savings alone. I know several refrigeration engineers, and they have agreed with that assessment.

John


Post# 1178007 , Reply# 18   4/13/2023 at 11:05 (377 days old) by estesguy (kansas)        

So let's hypothetically say there was a leak that allowed the R600 to build up inside the refrigerator. What would be the ignition source? Not the door switch, as the lady was away from the refrigerator when it happened. Don't most newer models use external circuit board relays to control functions, eliminating the old style mechanical thermostat inside the box? I do have a 6cf GE fridge I use at work with a mechanical thermostat inside the box and it uses R600. The charge is only 35 grams but still enough to cause a problem in the event of a large leak. Maybe the thought is most leaks, if and when they occur, are of small enough nature to be diluted by the opening of the doors, until its noticed that its not cooling properly anymore. I guess as more of these units make there way out into use, we will see how they hold up.

Post# 1178075 , Reply# 19   4/14/2023 at 02:14 (376 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Actually, big leaks are better, conversely

If it is a frost free model - which I guess it is - the freezer side will never be 100% air tight. The thaw water from a defrost has to go somewhere, usually, an evaporation pan on top of the compressor.
Some EU models have passive, thermal valves that only open on defrost to plug that drain hole, but I don't think US models have that yet since it is a pure efficiency measure.

And right next to the compressor, simpler machines often still have the good old defrost timer.

So you have a direct air path to the compressor area, and a mechanical switching device.
If he recently replaced the fan, that new fan might have been faulty aswell.
Hard to say - but ignition sources do exist.



Can't say if it's R600 or R290 - wouldn't make much of a difference.




And slow leaks are a bigger issue, actually.

If you - for example - manage to puncture a pipe while cleaning, that damage usually is bigger.
That means almost all of the charge vents basically instantly.
That in turn means that the time until the refrigerant is completely gone is pretty short. The shorter the time, the less chance of an ignition source being active in that time.
Keep in mind - if thr concentration is to high OR to low, ignition is not possible.
A big failure has a fast transition through that danger zone.

A slow leak can keep up the exact right condition for longer.
As the first refrigerant that leaked gets diluted, the leak might resupply at just the right speed.



And everything got thinner.
Saving money, first action is always to reduce material costs.

On a fridge-freezer, where you shouldn't have much environmental influences AND where you should have close to no physical interaction (especially on a frost free model), that shouldn't be much of an issue.
Aluminium dosen't weather much in many conditions, especially indoors.
And if you only build for like 15-20 years of those conditions, you can go pretty thin.

However, if a clumsy technician just goes at it, well, that's a different story.


Post# 1178091 , Reply# 20   4/14/2023 at 07:46 (376 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Small versus big leaks

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In home refrigeration systems, a small leak will usually take anywhere from months to years to leak out, a leak of this size would never present an explosion hazard.

A large leak would be necessary to ever have an explosion where the refrigerant leaks out in a short time, usually a matter of hours, because there is so little refrigerant in the system to begin with.

US Bilt frost free refrigerators do have a cap on the drain or a drain trap so there is not any air leaking in and out of the freezer normally.

I will say it again. I think it’s a must that they start using better quality evaporators. They can be too easily damaged when servicing the refrigerator, and of course many leak on their own because of slight damage that was caused during the assembly and manufacturing process.

John


Post# 1178144 , Reply# 21   4/14/2023 at 18:27 (376 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Lets just say it!

John hit the nail on the head, cheap parts cause problems.


Post# 1178155 , Reply# 22   4/14/2023 at 22:40 (376 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
frigidaire

GEE! Get it together Frigidaire! What are you doing?

Post# 1178179 , Reply# 23   4/15/2023 at 07:58 (375 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)        

Frigidaire isn't the only brand of refrigerator that explodes.  There have been quite a few exploding refrigerators from all different brands in the news these last few years.


Post# 1178393 , Reply# 24   4/17/2023 at 15:48 (373 days old) by thatwasherguy (Kentucky)        
Looks to me like...

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Someone finally decided to take disposal costs of planned obsolescence into consideration, and invented the world’s first self-recycling fridge! No need for the crusher anymore!

Seriously though, that could have been really bad. I’m glad no one was hurt.
Thatwasherguy.



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