Thread Number: 93227  /  Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Not So Fast re: "Banning" Gas Stoves
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Post# 1178641   4/20/2023 at 18:30 (343 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)        

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The first U.S. city to attempt this is now the first one to have its decision reversed in court.

 

Welcome news to those who prefer gas for stove-top cooking.



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Post# 1178653 , Reply# 1   4/20/2023 at 20:05 (343 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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A three-judge panel of the Ninth U.S Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/o..." target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener" data-ylk="slk:ruled;elm:context_link;itc:0" data-rapid_p="15" data-v9y="1">ruled that Berkeley’s ban is preempted by a federal law, and is therefore illegal. 

 

Wait, the government is actually following and enforcing the law?

 

Let me soak up this rare and brief moment.


Post# 1178658 , Reply# 2   4/20/2023 at 20:41 (343 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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When I bought this place in 1997, it had a Corning glass electric cooktop. It showed bad staining under the glass, and was on its last legs. I replaced it with a Frigidaire "Gas on Glass" cooktop, and have never regretted that move. I kept the electric oven, which is on another wall of the 1960's remodeled kitchen. A GE P*7, which works OK.

 

There's also an old electric range - Frigidaire Compact30 -  in the patio kitchen. I have a Modern Maid gas range (same size) I found, which should fit OK into the same space. And I had gas run to that location as well. But since I rarely cook in that spare kitchen, I've put it off for about 10 years now. And, I'll need to test the Modern Maid before I yank the electric range that's in there now.


Post# 1178667 , Reply# 3   4/20/2023 at 21:39 (343 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

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And so the drawn out legal process goes...
Smoking wasn't banned from indoors overnight either.

On any issue,
There is back and forth between those with progressive ideals that will serve humanity best
and
those who have a financial or society damaging scheme they are trying to manipulate the situation.

It's so f**king boring and predictable at this point, it doesn't matter what the issue. One can predict the grifters will be bottom feeding in desperation somewhere in the shadows.




Post# 1178769 , Reply# 4   4/22/2023 at 13:41 (341 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Well, my home is heated by gas, although the furnace blower apparently consumes about 500 watts when it's going. Even when temps are at their lowest, like this past winter, the furnace would only come on about once an hour, for 5-15 minutes. Now that things have warmed up considerably, especially this weekend, the furnace doesn't seem to have come on at all.

 

I suppose I should look into some sort of heat exchange system for home heating. One problem is that the house, other than the front yard, is surrounded by concrete. The nearest earthen area is about 30 feet away from the back of the house.

 


Post# 1183177 , Reply# 5   6/22/2023 at 02:13 (280 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        
Benzene is highly toxic

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I want to know why years ago (and still today) it was stated that gas dryers should not be operated inside a structure without venting outdoors; yet gas stoves one could practically heat their homes with the open flame.

That doesn't work. One could have a standing pilot gas stove and no vent over it, it would be running around the clock always on, putting out wasteful heat and emitting benzene and other chemicals into indoor air and that was fine?
Yet a gas dryer running for 45 minutes inside a house there was something wrong with that?
NO.

It's like they knew SOMETHING wasn't right years ago with gas burning appliances, but just didn't have balls or perhaps the legal foundation to protect people.

A gas stove, especially the old standing pilot type, was constantly polluting the homes indoor air with benzene and other contaminants. And if one turned on their oven for several hours to make a ham or something, all that exhaust was inside. Add in a few burners running to simmer foods.... what a toxic mess.

My grandmother died of cancer in 1982. She never smoked or drank as far I know. She worked at a museum. In the 70s she had a 2 bedroom house with a Hardwick coffee brown gas stove with oven on top and no kitchen or bathroom vent, a standard 30 gal. gas w. heat, and a small 70%? eff. f.a. gas furnace. She didn't even like my parents smoking in her house and this was the 70s.

As a kid I remember noticing how her kitchen was always warmer than the rest of the house, that small standing blue flame under one of the burners, and that gas smell.

When she was near death, the doctors told my mother they tried to operate on her but when they cut her open there was cancer cels everywhere. There was nothing they could do.

Let's just say my suspicions are run high of what she died of.

These crappy, inferior gas appliances need to be out of our living environments.


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Post# 1183180 , Reply# 6   6/22/2023 at 04:47 (280 days old) by alexoro (US)        

You are right to question the safety of gas stoves and dryers, especially in older homes that may not have been properly ventilated. There is a growing body of scientific evidence that shows that exposure to combustion fumes from gas appliances can increase the risk of cancer, heart disease, and other respiratory problems.

In the case of your grandmother, it is impossible to say for sure whether her exposure to gas fumes from her stove contributed to her cancer. However, the fact that she lived in a home with no kitchen or bathroom vent, and that she had a gas stove with a standing pilot flame, suggests that she may have been exposed to high levels of combustion fumes.

The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) now requires all gas stoves to have sealed combustion chambers, which help to prevent the escape of combustion fumes into the home. However, older stoves may not have this feature, and they can still be a significant source of indoor air pollution.


Post# 1183193 , Reply# 7   6/22/2023 at 11:33 (280 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
Balanced approach

Probably for now gas appliances should stay in the home. As we ramp up electricity production, and make it renewable. This will happen gradually and we need a lot of the home energy use non electric. Yes you need a hood for that stove and yes the gas dryer is vented. Eventually we will replace the gas appliances with electric, over time.


Post# 1183194 , Reply# 8   6/22/2023 at 11:40 (280 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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I refuse to go all electric until the rates drop considerably. I have faced SEVEN rate increases in my electric bill in the last 6 months while the cost for gas and oil have dropped alot. So I will continue to use my gas stove and oil boiler that are affordable to operate.

Post# 1183199 , Reply# 9   6/22/2023 at 13:37 (280 days old) by Vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
I like

A gas top, but electric oven. Our neighbors just got a lower end GE gas range with a center griddle and the broiler is not in the oven. It is in the bottom like those old stoves had. I was surprised to see that on a stainless steel range. The oven door is very light, and it only has steam cleaning.

Post# 1183202 , Reply# 10   6/22/2023 at 15:15 (280 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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I have bad feeling as electric starts to take off and other options are phased out (oil/gas/coal) that rates will jump considerably as there will be little to no competition/options. 


Post# 1183240 , Reply# 11   6/23/2023 at 02:59 (279 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        
#8

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When you say you have a gas stove and oil heat, does that mean you have a propane stove with some kind of tank outside just for the stove
or do you have a gas service piped to the home from the street?

The oil for home heating, which a lot of NE states residents still have for home heating, isn't a big deal because it's a finite amount of liquid which is in a tank either inside or outside and it isn't even combustible, much less will it explode.

Sure it's messy when burned but...no disaster looming unless the tank or lines leak.
One can drop a lit match into a bucket of heating oil and the oil will extinguish the match. Can't complain about that.

Oil and gases, including petroleum, are supposed to become cheaper in the short term(1 year period) but prices will escalate quickly there after for several reasons.


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Post# 1183242 , Reply# 12   6/23/2023 at 03:33 (279 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        
#10

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All homes (or nearly all) have electric already.

Only 55% of homes have gas or propane for their principal type of home heating.

Theoretically, all anyone has to do to switch to electric home heating is to buy some electric heaters and plug them in in their home.

Electric can do EVERYTHING in the home.

Gas only does like 4 things at most in the typical home: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer, and stove.

And most of the time still needs electric to operate the controls and valves to make those stinky, dirty appliances work.

 

Electric is 100% efficient, often operates silently, cleanly, and doesn't explode.  It's the BEST product for home energy because it does it all.

 

Gas ....is the poorman's crutch.  A dirty, dangerous source of sustenance that has cost more than one person dearly either in his pocket book for EXPENSIVE install costs or repairs, or perhaps his very life via an explosion or asphyxiation.   

 

I was a poorman like that years ago.  I put gas in all of the homes I built starting in 1992.  I had a 500 gallon propane tank installed for a house I built out in the country 20 years ago and I had a gas furnace, water heater, and stove.   Live and learn.

But now I know better and the technology has changed with solar, batteries, and wind kicking butt.  One can even cheaply make their own electric for FREE  via solar.

 

No gas for me.  Now I will rip out gas appliances, gas lines, and laterals in any house I own.  I don't want that dangerous stuff near me.


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Post# 1183252 , Reply# 13   6/23/2023 at 08:42 (279 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)        

For those us up north where it's quite cold during winter, heating the entire house with electric resistance heaters would be cost prohibitive.

 

According to The National Fire Protection Association, electric stoves cause more fires than gas stoves.


Post# 1183258 , Reply# 14   6/23/2023 at 09:57 (279 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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Yes, I have 2 of those propane tanks. One for the whole house generator and one for my gas stove, gas fireplace and gas Hearthstone. You can preach to the choir about how you hate gas, Brad, but when you want to pay my ridiculously high electric bill, I'll switch. When I was a kid, we had cheap, abundant, reliable hydro power from the rivers in this state, but the environmentalists fought to have those dams removed because it was hurting the fish, removing them only hurt electric consumers.

Post# 1183276 , Reply# 15   6/23/2023 at 14:46 (279 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #12

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When the electric rates skyrocket in price, please send a check for Dan’s electric bill.

To quote John Lefever: “You’d be thousands richer using gas appliances than you would with electric”.

May not be the exact quote but remember seeing something similar while surfing through the archives.


Post# 1183281 , Reply# 16   6/23/2023 at 15:44 (279 days old) by appnut (TX)        
Reply #14

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Here Here Tim!!! Preach it. If I build another house, hopefully it will have gas or propane for some things. No more all-electric for me if possible. SO THERE!!!! Just like no efffing electric car.

Post# 1183309 , Reply# 17   6/23/2023 at 22:53 (279 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Homes are going to go all electric

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Hi Tim, would you mind posting what you pay per kilowatt for electricity per gallon for heating oil and propane?

Then some real comparisons could be made, how high is your electric bill? Anyway, what do you pay for propane and heating oil for a year?

an electric stove likely wouldn’t cost you any more to operate than a propane stove, a heat pump water heater would definitely be cheaper to operate than a propane, water heater.

Brad, you just get too wrapped up in this some of what you write is good but nobody is endorsing resistance electric heat. That is not the future. It’s the most expensive type of heat you can use.

Heating oil is also far worse than burning propane or natural gas for the environment it makes a lot of pollution. It causes a lot of pollution problems when it leaks from tanks and it’s dirty to refine, etc..

John


Post# 1183321 , Reply# 18   6/24/2023 at 00:00 (279 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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Yes Oil Heating has gone beyond obsolete, houses I'd know with oil burning furnaces have fast and furiously been converted to gas or replaced with newer gas furnaces with the removal of those tanks and the disappearance of those trucks to fill them onward...

Although I miss the still pleasant and fragrant smell of that oil as well as the tank being filled and watching the gauge on it rise, as well as the whistle signaling the tank was full, while the long hose was dragged behind and retrieved to and from the back of our house...



-- Dave


Post# 1183326 , Reply# 19   6/24/2023 at 02:32 (278 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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When my family lived in New England, I was quite used to the sight, sound, and smell of fuel oil being delivered via tanker truck every fall. Then we moved to San Francisco, where most home heating was via natural gas. I have never sniffed any benzene in a natural gas heater. My current home has a natural gas heater, and like all other such heaters it is fully vented to the roof. The cooking stove in the main kitchen has a fume hood which works quite well. The water heater, also fully vented to the outdoors, also is natural gas.

 

The only possible source of benzene into the interiors might be the cooking stove in the main kitchen. However it also has a hood with a powerful blower, that vents to the outdoors, so I'm not worried about that.


Post# 1183334 , Reply# 20   6/24/2023 at 10:03 (278 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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My electric rate adding everything up comes out to .28/kwh. I only buy propane and heating oil once a year. Right now oil is 2.89/gal., propane is 2.99/gal. I get my hot water off the boiler. In 1995 when I had everything installed oil was .60/gal., last fall it went up to 4.29/gal. Last year my electric bill was averaging $35-$45/ monthly, now it is over $100. I looked into a heat pump but the incentives were too minimal to pursue. I normally use under 300 kwh of electricity each month and use about 500 gallons of oil a year. I have 2 330 gallon oil tanks Propane use varies, an extended power outage will use more propane in the Generac. I am not doing any major changes to my systems. Let the next person that owns this place do them.

Post# 1183339 , Reply# 21   6/24/2023 at 12:53 (278 days old) by Davey7 (Chicago)        

The push to remove gas, especially for heating, in existing buildings, is foolhardy and not realistic. Why? Retrofitting electric heating isn't as simple as popping in a bunch of baseboard heaters which won't be able to keep up with the heat loss.

That said, I've lived in cold climates with all electric heating, but it wasn't little baseboard units and the houses were far better insulated that standard North American construction.

I can see all electric in new construction with high insulation and quality controlled construction (not even to passive house standards) which don't need as much heating or cooling due to the construction.


Post# 1183387 , Reply# 22   6/25/2023 at 04:01 (277 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Good points, Davey.

 

However I think for existing construction in suburban areas where there is enough room for a heat exchange setup, going electric for heating might work well. At least in California. One drawback might be the cost of such a conversion. I've yet to see any reliable figures for that.

 

My own place might require some changes for such a setup, largely because the area around the home, other than the front yard, either has a lot of concrete driveway near the home, or a concrete fish pond, or a enclosed brick patio. The one exception might be a raised area adjacent to the fish pond behind the house where I planted a lovely navel orange tree, and which I'd rather not disturb.


Post# 1184221 , Reply# 23   7/5/2023 at 14:15 (267 days old) by Davey7 (Chicago)        

In Sweden exhaust air heat pumps which provide hydronic radiant heat are fairly common, in places with no district heating (which is often backup). Or ground source heat pumps - often retrofitted on older houses.

There are plenty of ways to retrofit existing systems, but there seem to be lots of existing heat pump systems with forced air systems as it it, it can often be done easily. It just depends on the heat loss at the design temp - that's the big bugaboo with conversion.


Post# 1184332 , Reply# 24   7/7/2023 at 12:00 (265 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
This isn't a ban on Gas Stoves

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This is a ban on all gas in new construction.

While the culture warriors are quick to talk about gas stove bans, has anyone ANYWHERE ever actually proposed banning gas stoves??

Such mock outrage


Post# 1184346 , Reply# 25   7/7/2023 at 15:14 (265 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Yes, and it's pissing me off. If I ever build another house, I WILL investgate the potential of either gas being in the neighborhoo nearby or an inground butane tank. I'm noticing builders are offering gas grills of some sort included with their patio kitchens. I've lived all-electric for the past 37 years and I'm tired of it. And my partner would like to have at least gas cooktop. Having a gas oven and electric oven would be perfect.

Post# 1184347 , Reply# 26   7/7/2023 at 15:24 (265 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #25

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Bob, do you guys have solar or not?

Post# 1184349 , Reply# 27   7/7/2023 at 15:30 (265 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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No I don't have solar. A friend of mine who lives in a Dallas suburb, a buddy of his had just put solar panels on his roof. Two weeks later a monstrous hail storm came through one night and destroyed his brand new solar panels. So now the guy is stuck with paying for the original panels as well as his insurance deductible. He's bitter and angry. So much for effing green energy.

Post# 1184351 , Reply# 28   7/7/2023 at 16:02 (265 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        

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Thats a real shame Bob.  I would think that in areas of the country like Texas and the midwest where hail storms are common and frequent that people wouldn’t think solar panels were a good idea.  

 

I’m sorry that your friend had to learn such an expensive lesson.  The companies that sell and install these solar panels should either be making the panels with materials that can withstand a heavy hail storm or warning potential customers of the possibility of damage and/or total loss of the panels in the event of a big hail storm.  What a racket!

 

Green energy is our best hope for reversing Climate Change.  There are  other ways to generate clean energy besides solar power.

 

Eddie


Post# 1184352 , Reply# 29   7/7/2023 at 16:07 (265 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #27

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Ahh. That’s the thing with solar, it’s all good until a hail storm comes along especially with golf ball sized hail. More and more homes here in the southwest (Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, California) are getting solar panels since the cost of electricity is getting more and more expensive each year, extreme weather events such as hail and tornadoes are very rare here so there’s no worries about them getting damaged from such weather events.

Post# 1184361 , Reply# 30   7/7/2023 at 18:11 (265 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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There are some residences here with solar panels.  I have no info on how many.  One is up the road from me, I can see the house from my window.

Meta Platforms (aka Facebook) is an investor in a wind farm installation a bit east of town, planned to be finished by December.


Post# 1184384 , Reply# 31   7/7/2023 at 23:29 (265 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        
#25 lol

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"....I've lived all-electric for the past 37 years and I'm tired of it. And my partner would like to have at least gas cooktop. Having a gas oven and electric oven would be perfect...."

So Bob, you've lived 37 years as a spoiled person without gas asphyxiation, explosion's, or having to spend big $$$ for repairs or replacement of gas appliances and...

you're "tired of it."

ha-RUMPHHHH!

 

Oh my.  Well if your concern is having a gas grill just buy one.  They often come ready for connecting to a 20 pound propane tank that can be easily exchanged out at an area propane dealer when needed.

 

Likewise if you want a gas stove in your kitchen and especially if it's next to or near an outside wall just get the gas stove/oven you want, drill a 3/4" hole through the wall, put the same 20 pound (or larger) propane tank outside and connect it to the stove through the wall.  Cooking appliances use the least amount of gas because they are so rarely used thus the tank should last months before needing to be switched out. 

 

A portable tank is the safest way of getting your fill of the gas lifestyle.  lol.   No need to wait or spend money on a gas lateral. Take that step down from electric. 

 

 

 


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Post# 1184386 , Reply# 32   7/7/2023 at 23:58 (265 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        
Hail damage is a rarity to solar panels.

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Yes there are a few states like texas, oklahoma, and florida that are more likely to experience severe hail or wind damage but it isn't just solar panels that will be damaged by the likes of grapefruit sized hail. 

 

If you had a solar array professionally installed then one's home owners insurance would cover damages done to solar panels and of course the rest of the home.

Solar panels are relatively inexpensive and a $150 solar panel is easy to replace and afford.

 

Solar panels can withstand "abuse" such as medium size hail.  They are designed to be outside permanently.

 

----

With the OBVIOUS climate change that is impacting the planet, my question to those living the states mentioned above: WHY are you still living there?  It's only going to get worse. 

 

 

Does the recent sky rocketing home insurance and property taxes not mean anything to you? 

The last thing to be worried about is solar panels.

 

This upcoming hurricane season is showing all the signs of being THE WORST in history. 

The unusually warm water temps in the Atlantic ocean is not a good sign.

 

 

 










 

 



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Post# 1184488 , Reply# 33   7/9/2023 at 02:42 (263 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        

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This whole rush to convert the country to everything electric is nothing short of folly and fantasy. Our grid wont handle it in its present state, and we dont produce enough power to supply all the demand they want to burden it with. Its putting the cart before the horse and absolute stupidity to think it can be done in such a short time as they want. The people in CA can deal with their brown outs and imbecile governor telling them to conserve power on high demand days because they've shut down so many power plants and dropped their grid to its knees but Im not ready for the whole country to have rolling black outs because our system is over taxed. Not to mention when you're at the mercy of one energy source for your daily routine they'll have power over you and can ruin your life in an instant when they flick off the switch. Dont want to pay our insane rates? Fine! Have fun walking to work or riding your bike or the electric bus because you wont be able to charge your eco mobile, and have fun eating cold food because your induction or electric stove and microwave wont work as well, oh and you better buy a solar charger for your phone too. The electric clothes dryer? Better forget about that too. As well as the TV. And learn to live in the dark at night now you'll love it once you get used to it. Yeah sounds like a real sweet utopia they have in store for us!

Post# 1184490 , Reply# 34   7/9/2023 at 04:44 (263 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Converting to an all electric future

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Year over year for the last decade or more, this country is used less electricity, meanwhile, were producing more and more electricity with renewable wind and solar and we haven’t even scratch the surface yet.

When I was out in Northern California, nearly 1 in 20 cars are electric here in the DC area. We have a lot of electric cars and yet there’s no power shortages the system will adapt engineers are planning for it.

My electric costs here at home are only about $80 a month for people that know me this house has a lot of electrical appliances, I do still use natural gas for heating hot water heating and clothes drying. I pay about $100 a month for natural gas. I currently have two full-size freezers and three refrigerators running all the time all inside cooking is electric I have five gas dryers, one gas range outside two gas, water heaters, and two gas furnaces.

As time goes on, I will replace air conditioners with heat pumps to reduce the amount of gas I use.

I’m not the least bit worried about the world running out of electricity.

John


Post# 1184522 , Reply# 35   7/9/2023 at 13:19 (263 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        
#33

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"convert the country to everything electric" ?

Everything is ALREADY electric and good for all of us. No complaints.

As was pointed out above, electricity is in ALL homes already in the U.S.

Gas is in only 55% of homes and typically only fuels 3-4 appliances and usually can't even operate with out electricity there to baby it and manage and control said appliances. It's ridiculous.

Gas is a dirty, inefficient, limited use, explosive form of sustenance that never should have been piped to residential properties.

The costly aging network of pipes that distributes said gases frequently leaks and needs replacement.

Ignore the criminals who have a vested interest in oil companies spreading their lies.
Fossil fuels are increasingly difficult to mine and refine. They are dirty to refine and pollute heavily.

These refinery disasters happen so often in texas, and the state is so corrupt that I don't think the people there even realize how screwed they are living in that state. It's pathetic.

There was once a time when humans burned whale oil for gas lamps. When we burned wood and coal for heat. When we used horses and carriages for transportation.

We can and should be grateful to past technologies that allowed us to exist, but accept that their times have come and gone and move on.









Post# 1184524 , Reply# 36   7/9/2023 at 13:31 (263 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
The other thing

The other thing is that all fossil fuels are running out, and we will convert to renewables over time. The real question is: Is there enough fossil fuel to manufacture all of the solar panels and wind generators that will be needed world wide? After we convert to all renewable, new solar panels have to be manufactured because they only last 25 years.

I tried to calculate this once using data available on fossil fuels still left, but all of the zeros frustrated me.

Fossil fuels are free and that has always been their advantage. Only requiring extraction, refining and movement. Renewables cost a lot and need maintenance, and as mentioned a huge investment in our electric grid. It is happening gradually.


Post# 1184560 , Reply# 37   7/9/2023 at 20:37 (263 days old) by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)        
all fossil fuels are running out,

BS

wattsupwiththat.com/2022/07/27/g...

"Equatorial Guyana and Suriname—situated side-by-side and bounded by the equator and Atlantic Ocean — have combined oil reserves estimated to be 17 billion barrels of oil equivalent. Together this represents the world’s largest oil discovery in the last two decades. Some call it the “the most promising oil discovery hotspot on earth.” Others say it is “the most exciting oil frontier on earth.” In addition, there are gas reserves of more than 30 trillion cubic feet".

geology.com/articles/utica-shale...

"The Marcellus Shale has become one of the world's largest natural gas fields, and the Utica Shale - located a few thousand feet below the Marcellus - has become a new drilling target.

"The United States Geological Survey's mean estimates of undiscovered, technically recoverable unconventional resources indicate that the Utica Shale contains about 38 trillion cubic feet of natural gas."

-Just to name a few.


Post# 1184561 , Reply# 38   7/9/2023 at 20:46 (263 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #37

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There’s also the theory of abiotic oil which means the earth is producing oil from hydrocarbons deep within the earth.

Post# 1184588 , Reply# 39   7/10/2023 at 06:21 (262 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        
Electric not always safe.

In a city not far away from me they had a large surge of power and several houses had massive fires in them. Some totaled the house but all needed fire department response. The least will be all electric wires will need to be replaced in these houses. Things can happen no matter what type of fuel you use.

Jon


Post# 1184600 , Reply# 40   7/10/2023 at 09:19 (262 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Someone in my hometown was receiving a propane delivery some years ago, an explosion occurred and the house burned down.


Post# 1184931 , Reply# 41   7/15/2023 at 09:14 (257 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply number 36

combo52's profile picture
Hi Martin, your remark that fossil fuels are free, would be funny if it were even remotely true.

The cost and damage of extracting fossil fuels from the earth is beyond calculating, the problem is not that we’re running out of fossil fuels. The problem is, the damage we’re doing to the Earth by burning them and extracting them.

Solar inHi Martin, your remark that fossil fuels are free, would be funny if it were even remotely true.

The cost and damage of extracting fossil fuels from the earth is beyond calculating, the problem is not that we’re running out of fossil fuels. The problem is, the damage were doing to the earth by burning them and extracting them.

Solar and wind energy are truly free and are available to almost anybody with the land and space in the sun.


Current heat wave we are having has proven the advantage of wind and solar energy. It’s the only thing that has saved Texas from massive blackouts, brownouts, etc. during this heat wave.


Continuing to extract, oil and gas and burn, it is only gonna burn us into oblivion.

John.


Post# 1184948 , Reply# 42   7/15/2023 at 12:53 (257 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
gas stoves

I pray they don't ban gas stoves.

Post# 1184951 , Reply# 43   7/15/2023 at 13:25 (257 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        

This post has been removed by the webmaster.



Post# 1184953 , Reply# 44   7/15/2023 at 13:40 (257 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)        

I don't believe they will ever ban existing gas stove installations. A worthy exception might be an area that's prone to earthquakes.

The phosphates were killing the fish, and we found a way around using them. I think that's a good thing.

On other side of the coin, how are we going to handle recycling all the used electic car batteries, send them to the poor countries in the east where hey have lax pollution laws? We already do that with much of our discarded elecronics.



Post# 1184957 , Reply# 45   7/15/2023 at 13:57 (257 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        
Jerome

panasonicvac's profile picture
As a person with German heritage, your post was WAY offensive and out of line! Seriously, I personally sent you an email to stop using that word but you just chose to do it again.

Post# 1184961 , Reply# 46   7/15/2023 at 14:52 (257 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
Jerome, I know how you feel but I suggest ‘tone it down’ a little. I know it’s just a figure of speech, but just be careful what you put out there or else someone might take it the wrong way. I actually have German and English in my blood, not necessarily going to take offense to it but others with German heritage probably will.

Come to think of it, maybe that’s why I have an obsession and affinity for anything mechanical along with liking things that are over-built along with the ability to be repaired or rebuilt.


Post# 1184970 , Reply# 47   7/15/2023 at 15:51 (257 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Get real.  You can use as much hot water as you want - no one is stopping you.  As for phosphates,  if you are so desperate for them you can buy some. I and many others are perfectly happy with current detergents and our non-polluted lakes and streams. You are not the only person living in this country.


Post# 1184971 , Reply# 48   7/15/2023 at 16:44 (257 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply number 44

combo52's profile picture
Hi Ken, used EV batteries are being put to use by a company in Virginia. They’re teaming them up with solar panels, saving electricity and selling it back to the power companies during peak demand periods.

Apparently the batteries don’t really fail completely and if the car is wrecked or some of the batteries fail they can use the rest of them this way when you consider house expensive the batteries are I’m sure clever uses will be found for them for a long time into the future maybe at that time to find a decent way to recycle them.

John


Post# 1185095 , Reply# 49   7/17/2023 at 08:59 (255 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
tried and true heritage

I am of the opinion that anything that has tried and true heritage just plain works. Anything new looks and sounds and evens works stupid. Case in point, the new "HE" so-called washers and dryers. I've tried them, they don't work. The Speed Queens at my apartment on the other hand, do. I have seen videos, done research, and tried these new machines and they absolutely don't work. No hot water, damp clothes, not enough water... the list goes on and on. Now look at what's going on with these new machines.
Why are they continuing to push these subpar machines on us?


Post# 1185100 , Reply# 50   7/17/2023 at 10:18 (255 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
calling things as I see them

Not to sound or be rude, but I'm just calling things how I see them. I am so sick and tired of being told of how much resources we can and can't use. Using less resources gets worse performance. End of story. Period. You need water to clean and heat to cook.This government intervention has to stop. If anybody is causing a "water shortage" I blame the agricultural farmers. Leave my gas stoves and "water hogs" alone! I'm so sick and tired of the "eco friendly" sanctioned appliances today that don't perform worth a damn!

Post# 1185101 , Reply# 51   7/17/2023 at 10:47 (255 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        

ea56's profile picture

Jerome, as far as being sick and tired, since we’re voicing our opinions here, I’m sick and tired of your whining about the need to conserve water and other resources.

Get your head out of the sand! Being able to use endless amounts of water in your washing machine and endless amounts of gas and electricity to heat it is SELFISH!! Do you not pay attention to the news? There is a big problem with Climate Change and its effect on the earths environment and our natural resources, whether you want to recognize it or not. Our government is racing against the clock to save our precious natural resources before its too late.

And the shortage of water certainly isn’t the result of agriculture! For cryin’ out loud, producing the food that mankind NEEDS for survival is vastly more important than you or anyone else being able to use a much water and fossil fuel as you want to do the laundry. No man is an island, we are all in this together.

The way you complain one would think that you were the only person suffering in the world. Having to conserve water is no where near as terrible as turning on the tap one day and having no water come out of it.

Get a life!

Eddie


Post# 1185130 , Reply# 52   7/17/2023 at 15:22 (255 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
I guess doing laundry is more important than growing food. We may starve, but at least we will do it wearing clean clothes lol

Post# 1185228 , Reply# 53   7/19/2023 at 00:19 (254 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
laundry, cooking and dishes

So why are so many complaints being posted online? The new machines promise to save to save money on resources by using less, only for the everyday consumer to be frustrated that it takes 2-3 times to get the same performance as their old one did. And it's not just washers, dryers and dishwashers. It's also refrigerators, ranges, etc. etc.
What is it going to take for you to wake up and smell the coffee? The reason why I'm "complaining" is because I know what's coming. I forgot to mention that I used a friend's HE washer and the performance was abysmal. All in the name of "saving the planet". My Speed Queens can be filled to the brim during both wash and rinse and get the job done properly. I beg to differ that the Speed Queen is more of a high efficiency washer than the so-called HE appliances anything will ever be.


Post# 1185333 , Reply# 54   7/20/2023 at 09:32 (252 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
Online complaints

kb0nes's profile picture
Jerome, remember when reading online reviews (complaints) there is no way in knowing if the problem is with the appliance or the user. Many people simply just don't use machines (or stoves) with the understanding of how to make them work correctly. Also keep in mind that people are MUCH more likely to put fingers to keyboard when they are upset vs pleased so online reviews are overwhelmingly negative for all products.

Ask yourself this, how is it that many people in this group actually PREFER front loading washing machines if they are so awful? Perhaps they have learned and adapted to using them correctly so as to reap the benefits that front load machines offer. Europeans by and large use front load machines, and oddly they don't complain the way American consumers do, how come? I use the analogy that if one were to go from an automatic transmission vehicle to one with a manual transmission, yet if they attempted to drive it the same way, it isn't going to work very well either. Laundry habits one gets away with in a traditional top load washer don't work so well in a front load machine. This isn't a problem with the machine, it is a problem with the user.

Some choose to learn and adapt to different (superior?) technologies, others remain stuck and just complain...


Post# 1185337 , Reply# 55   7/20/2023 at 10:30 (252 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Complaining instead of adapting gives the complainer a sense of validation and triumph.


Post# 1185348 , Reply# 56   7/20/2023 at 17:25 (252 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
consumer complaints

Maybe because consumers today notice a big difference in quality based off the experiences they've had and reading and following the instructions to the tee, only to get poor results.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO GELaundry4ever's LINK


Post# 1185359 , Reply# 57   7/20/2023 at 19:08 (252 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        
Opinions are like....

A site I highly respect has done extensive testing and a lot of research, put the GE FL as a second place choice.  They looked at repair records and overall performance and felt comfortable with the GE.

 

You can find all the negative reviews you want -  if you want to - every product has them.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO MattL's LINK

Post# 1185362 , Reply# 58   7/20/2023 at 20:22 (252 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

wayupnorth's profile picture
This is a forum about banning gas stoves not filter-flos. I am keeping my gas stove and dont care what anyone says.

Post# 1185363 , Reply# 59   7/20/2023 at 20:30 (252 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
This thread has gotten ever so slightly ridiculous.

Post# 1189887 , Reply# 60   9/12/2023 at 22:52 (198 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Well with this being the latest and most current thread on banning or at least restricting natural gas, have any of you have any memories of those flaming smokestacks called gas flares?

Seen them in aerial views of industrial areas of cities in movies or on tv?

Driven around or by them or like me once tried to get real close to one while driving in such an area and instead of a long, tall structure one I’d tried to get a close-up was a relatively short, fat shaped like a volcano-like vessel…

Mom and dad answered my sister and I questioning those when we’d seen and be told that this or those are called GAS FLARES by dad anyway, mom answering that they were for burning wasted gas…

Any still working or just about nearly all of out of or going out of commission?



— Dave


CLICK HERE TO GO TO DaveAMKrayoGuy's LINK


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Post# 1189911 , Reply# 61   9/13/2023 at 10:29 (197 days old) by JustJunque (Western MA)        

justjunque's profile picture
Dave,

I've seen a couple of those flares around here; on the outskirts of landfills. Someone told me it was to burn off methane. I don't know if that's accurate or not.
And, since I don't get out as much as I used to, I don't know if they're still active.


Post# 1189912 , Reply# 62   9/13/2023 at 10:37 (197 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
JUST JUNQ: Well as I’d said I live around many urban areas so it struck me the thought of a central part of my local skyline seems to have recently been missing which is why I thought I’d pose my musing on it here and methane as you’d mentioned plays a key word there…



— Dave


Post# 1190728 , Reply# 63   9/26/2023 at 21:36 (184 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture

 

 

I probably said this before here, but I much prefer cooking with natural gas than with electricity. When I bought this house in 1997, it had an old glass top Corning electric cooktop, which I hated. I replaced it within a year with a gas cooktop, and that has worked out well.

 

The wall oven in the main kitchen is electric. The place does have a patio kitchen, with an electric range, and I picked up a gas range for that, but still haven't installed it. As I recall, I had someone run a gas line to a spot under the house (crawl space) which would probably work just fine for that range. When I get a round toit.

 



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