Thread Number: 93358
/ Tag: Modern Dryers
War on appliances |
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Post# 1180252   5/10/2023 at 08:02 (349 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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Proposed new rules...
What really rubs me the wrong way is the fact that if they GENUINELY CARED about the environment, they would crack down on planned obsolescence too...You can't crack down on how they operate while completely ignoring planned obsolescence... defeating the entire purpose. I mean, the entire goal is to save the environment, right? How can you have one and not the other? You need both to truly work...Otherwise all of the extra production/resources, energy saved is completely wasted building more and more and people buying more and more... Makes ZERO sense... ZERO!!! CLICK HERE TO GO TO mark_wpduet's LINK |
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Post# 1180255 , Reply# 1   5/10/2023 at 08:19 (349 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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I agree with you. It seems that things are just getting worse. We'll see what good will come out of this but I will not hold my breath. |
Post# 1180259 , Reply# 2   5/10/2023 at 09:11 (349 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 1180260 , Reply# 3   5/10/2023 at 09:24 (349 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 1180261 , Reply# 4   5/10/2023 at 09:43 (349 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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I'd rather use that many gallons when using a dishwasher as opposed to washing dishes by hand which takes much more and is ineffective. |
Post# 1180262 , Reply# 5   5/10/2023 at 09:57 (349 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1180263 , Reply# 6   5/10/2023 at 10:08 (349 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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There’s been a war on appliances for quite some time, people are now real how realizing how moronic government regulations are. Dishwashers are already efficient enough, we will soon be back to the days where we’ll have to wash dishes by hand which uses more water than using a dishwasher. Solving one problem but creating more is an absolute BRILLIANT way to fix the world’s problems.
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Post# 1180265 , Reply# 7   5/10/2023 at 10:27 (349 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Energy regulation, sure seem to be working even though the population is increasing the US is using less electricity year after year.
There is no evidence that planned obsolescence, etc. has increased appliance build quality is better than it’s ever been. New appliances almost never have any problems when we install them out of the box and they always work. New appliances only take a fraction of the materials and energy to build as older ones did so even if the life is far shorter. They still are saving energy. John. |
Post# 1180268 , Reply# 8   5/10/2023 at 11:36 (349 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)   |   | |
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Post# 1180269 , Reply# 9   5/10/2023 at 11:48 (349 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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This site has been beating the drums for a decade now. While gaslighting all the short comings. It was only a matter of time.
I hope an underground market opens up. Technically Amazon/ebay isn't liable for what it sells, you can buy just about anything illegal (like double end cords) no questions asked. People know, the sellers know and the concept is booming in revenue.
I'd gladly buy some brand new water guzzling appliances listed as "novelty" items. US made, in stock, and with a long warranty.
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Post# 1180272 , Reply# 10   5/10/2023 at 12:14 (349 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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I would say this kenmore dishwasher even if its considered vintage today was a genuine cleaning dishwasher no fancy electroniques that control everything even do the model in the first pic has a bit of electroniques
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Post# 1180276 , Reply# 11   5/10/2023 at 15:43 (349 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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This is your government, you have a voice and can use it to make your position (+ or -) known instantly. There is a public meeting (you can tune in online) next week about the proposed new standards for washing machines. In the public comment section you can submit and read letters, comments and questions from Industry and the public. It's fascinating to see what technical questions the industry are asking, though many of these are clarification of terms and the like.
While these are only proposed standards from the WH to the DOE, the scope and timelines can change dramatically as the process moves forward. The final approval for standards is still some time away.
Youtube wouldn't be full of videos of top-loading washers full-to-the-brim of swirling water if there wasn't a way to easily bypass or defeat the stingy "Normal/Eco" cycles. I had an LG top-load washer for a while and it was easy to trick the machine into using a full tub of water if I dumped a couple of quarts of water on the load before starting the machine. Many washers offer options to change the parameters of how the machine performs outside the pre-selected settings assigned to the cycles in the controls. Most dishwashers can be programmed for heavy-duty, power-scrub, etc. cycles that often add pre-washes and/or extra rinses, extra water heating beyond the default settings.
Longevity of appliance useful life hasn't really changed all that much in all the years Consumer Reports has been surveying their subscribers and their advice for repair/replace decisions is similar to what it was in the 50's. If you got 10 years of service from an automatic washer back then, you were above the average lifespan. I know, all of our grandmothers had (insert brand) washer for 20+ years, completely trouble-free, but that is an extreme in the overall statistical modeling.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO gansky1's LINK |
Post# 1180279 , Reply# 12   5/10/2023 at 16:49 (349 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)   |   | |
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I dunno. I agree on one hand because I don't know how much more we can squeeze usage regulations down. From a mechanical and chemical aspect, machines and detergent engineering/formulation has come a LONG way, soil, water, and fabrics have not and most likely never will, until god forbid they invent some kind of fabric that just never gets dirty or stinky, in which case all the fun of appliances and how they work will be extinct. But that's all to say that there's only so far physics can allow for these reductions in energy and water use.
On the other hand, I used to be one of the fools who bawlked at "HE" appliances, both washers and dishwashers, and now I'll proudly admit how wrong I was because I've now owned several of each, and not a one of them was a dud. I've owned four Whirlpool GlobalWash dishwashers, the well-known WP WDT920 that excelled at the scorched foods and peanut butter tests on a thread that still makes the rounds here and there, along with a KitchenAid 104, WP 520 and 710, all essentially same design and all were fantastic in performance and build quality, the 920 and KA obviously being the top contenders on both counts. I've also owned a BravOasis washer that I still consider the best HE top-load design to date along with it's cousin Fisher & Paykel SmartDrive, and in fact I just recently fully rebuilt an exact MVWB880 identical to the one I owned and it's running beautifully in my laundry room now. I've also had a Whirlpool Duet-Alpha WFW92 front loader for over 5.5 years that has not a single time left a load less than crisp and clean, well rinsed and spun dry, along with being impeccably smooth and quiet, and built like a damn tank. There's not a thing about it that feels chintzy or flimsy, inside or out, and upon doing a disassembly and deep clean at almost the 5 year mark, didn't find even the slightest sign of buildup or mold anywhere throughout. My only detracting mark is that front loaders just don't have the character and fun of a top loader because of being so sealed up during operation, which is why I'm enjoying the Bravos for the time being. Then brings me to the current dishwasher, the KitchenAid KDTM604, going two years now without a single hiccup and spotless dishes every time. The build quality of this thing is beautiful, especially when you're able to compare it to the sea of Samsungs, LGs, GEs and Frigidaires on the sales floor. The door is smooth and solid, the way the latch pulls itself shut has almost a MacBook like feel and thunk every time you close the door, all three racks are solid, and then underneath, everything looks and feels very nice and rigid. I was wary about the change to the poly-composite framing but in person it's very stable, and with it side mounted into the cavity, it doesn't have the slightest wiggle. Plus, unless I'm mistaken, Whirlpool actually has a repair video on their "academy" page on how to repair the spinning filter pump and motor, so it's not just a disposable all in one unit. To me, this machine is very reminiscent of the Voyager design, but very much improved and refined. Along with the build quality, we also recently got a Kohler H2Wise+ water meter for our home, which will learn over time which fixtures are which, and allows you to manually identify and "teach" what is using water, so during this first several months having it, I've made sure to only run the washer or dishwashers when it was least likely any other water was needed, so that I could isolate and see exactly how much water is being used. The other night I ran a full load that was fairly average soil, not really much dried on, just the residues of some sauces and drippings, drink and coffee cups, etc. Normal cycle, no options. It started straight into the main wash, then what I call an "eco-rinse" where it fills partially and then pulses the pump several times throughout all four wash levels, essentially covering the whole load at least once, then the final rinse. The entire cycle was 1.7 gallons, meaning this new design is actually more water efficient than the previous GlobalWash than I realized. The results? Spotless, not a speck to be found, no leftover scents of food or anything at all, and the interior sparkling. So I do agree in some ways with what a few are saying, but I also see this article as just another over-sensationalized clickbait to get people fuming. While I DO think build quality has tanked for alot of the budget offerings (looking at you GE with your paper thin dishwasher doors), there are also still alot of very well built and designed appliances on the market that are more than surpassing even the new regulations being proposed. I've long learned my lesson about dismissing things just because they're "new" without first experiencing them for myself, and while things have changed a good deal just in the last 20 years, I don't think there's yet any alarm to think that all the competing brands are going to intentionally design washers or dishwashers that won't clean. |
Post# 1180298 , Reply# 13   5/10/2023 at 20:14 (349 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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All this talk about conserving water is good however... |
Post# 1180299 , Reply# 14   5/10/2023 at 20:17 (349 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Post# 1180314 , Reply# 15   5/10/2023 at 22:32 (348 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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How will it affect Speed Queen? |
Post# 1180315 , Reply# 16   5/10/2023 at 22:35 (348 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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Gee, I loathe washing dishes by hand, which is why I have a dishwasher which I intend to use. I don't care how dirty my dishes are. The dishwasher WILL do a better job than I could. |
Post# 1180317 , Reply# 17   5/10/2023 at 23:21 (348 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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It will probably spell the end of top loading washers. Given the severe restrictions and garbage build quality on them now, it might not be such a bad idea to nuke them at this point.
Build quality on refrigerators had got to be at its lowest point in history, I'd hate to see what's in store for them next.
I'm curious what areas on dryers they are targeting for increased efficiency. |
Post# 1180319 , Reply# 18   5/10/2023 at 23:48 (348 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Refrigerators ... I ran across a discussion thread on a servicer board about a recent WP model on which the defrost element apparently is sourced only as part-parcel with the evaporator coil so replacing a failed defrost heater becomes a sealed-system job, which likely effectively trashes the whole thing on point of repair cost. The defrost thermostat (thermistor), and probably any other thermistors in the system, are also not sourced separately, requires the entire wiring harness ... reason is conjectured as related to the flammable (butane?) refrigerant involved (no wiring connectors or splicing into the harness that could cause a loose connection). |
Post# 1180322 , Reply# 19   5/11/2023 at 00:29 (348 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1180329 , Reply# 20   5/11/2023 at 03:44 (348 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Why though? Americans and Canadians are some of the only people in the world who have the privilege or drying 3.5 cu feet of laundry in under an hour. Why take it away? |
Post# 1180344 , Reply# 22   5/11/2023 at 09:53 (348 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 1180638 , Reply# 26   5/14/2023 at 19:08 (345 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Electronics by default determine how long a machine will last without repair:
Meaning if a circuit board is present, no large group of machines will be able to survive 30+ years. I challenge anyone to discover all the bloated or leaking capacitors within junked appliances.
Energy efficiency at least in part put electronics in machines due to the immense amount of logic and control required to achieve reasonable results with less water and energy. |
Post# 1180649 , Reply# 27   5/14/2023 at 20:55 (345 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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That’s what most people don’t understand, they may think they are making a difference but in reality it’s little to no difference at all. If we simply built things to last instead of being thrown away along with using clean sources of power such nuclear, wild, solar, we’d eliminate almost all pollution but everyone simply falls for the bogus nonsense that Big News and politicians put out there.
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Post# 1180661 , Reply# 28   5/15/2023 at 00:47 (344 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Post# 1180665 , Reply# 29   5/15/2023 at 07:38 (344 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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What makes nuclear power just as dirty as coal? I don't understand why people fall for nuclear being clean energy. |
Post# 1180667 , Reply# 30   5/15/2023 at 10:12 (344 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1180702 , Reply# 35   5/15/2023 at 20:59 (344 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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If the Frigimores, Calypsos, Neptunes, Harmonies, FL Speed Queens, and really any other HE washer had been built purely EM a whole lot of premature failures would have been spared. A Front load spinning at 640 rpm is still more efficient than an equivalent top load washer. A Whirlpool power clean module while using slightly more energy with only 4.8 gallons of water (W-P-R) can handle real world soils much more realistically than a fitter that needs to be cleaned manually. Factor in a motor that doesn't have brushes to wear you're looking at less carbon to build and dispose of in the long term. Nothing to fail, nothing break, all while preserving resources.
Here is an example at 1:45 >>>
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