Thread Number: 93877
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Will The TR Series Ever Go Away? Please? |
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Post# 1185373   7/21/2023 at 00:09 (475 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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The reviews aren't getting any better. People are still voicing dissatisfaction in large numbers over TR's inability to clean clothes, like this video as an example >
So far the latest iteration doesn't seem any better. Still weak sauce, still no turn over.
Will Speed Queen just listen and end production on their agi tub washers? I don't believe any number of software changes will improve the wash action, and, people still don't like the lid lock and no-fill with the lid open. |
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Post# 1185374 , Reply# 1   7/21/2023 at 00:20 (475 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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It seems as though companies basically ‘put lipstick on a pig’ thinking that will solve the problem but it’s simply covering up a shoddy product and design. If the government is going to mandate certain regulations that ‘water down’ products, then maybe they should (the government) try out the machines themselves and see how they like them and if employees and politicians of the government aren’t satisfied with them, then so are we. If that happened back in 2018, they basically would get a taste of their own medicine.
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Post# 1185377 , Reply# 2   7/21/2023 at 00:43 (475 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Took the words right out of my finger tips. Perhaps those passing the laws ought to try using these machines in person, coming from companies with limited resources to re-engineer their machines out of the blue to do what the laws of physics will essentially not allow.
HE has literally put companies out of business, ruined the reputation for others, overflown landfills, caused health issues, wasted resources and made countless customers outraged just for beginners.
Speed Queen is not shoddy or bad design IMO, they perfected the early Amana design such that it can compete with DDs and DCs. However, now that HE mandates are in effect they were forced to reinvent an already perfected design without ample resources, engineering, time and testing.
Hopefully the TR is just a temporary bridge until Speed Queen can make a descent mod shifter and brake. |
Post# 1185420 , Reply# 4   7/21/2023 at 15:20 (474 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 1185421 , Reply# 5   7/21/2023 at 15:59 (474 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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The whole TR series could just be a conspiracy (more than likely) to force people into buying front load machines which I am not too crazy about. Would only own a front loader if it was built like a Dexter commercial machine which dates back to at least the 50’s since Dexter machines are based off of the Philco-Bendix design, would be even more intriguing if a washer dryer combo was available from Dexter as well.
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Post# 1185433 , Reply# 6   7/21/2023 at 18:28 (474 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)   |   | |
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They won't ever discontinue them. But if they did, it'd be for banning top loaders all together which I think it could happen here one of these days. If people have any doubts of buying a TR machine, my advise is to not get one. I know I had mine when I tried out this TR7 before but I was honestly shocked by how well it did my laundry, one of those moments where I shouldn't judge until after I try it out. Of course I still don't think it's as good or better than a SQ classic but I really do like it. I wouldn't mind owning one of these if I were to pass on a SQ classic. But if I were to get a SQ washer, it'd be a front loader.
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Post# 1185434 , Reply# 7   7/21/2023 at 18:38 (474 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1185443 , Reply# 8   7/21/2023 at 20:59 (474 days old) by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis)   |   | |
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If top loaders are discontinued, it will be because manufacturers have realized there's only so efficient one can make a top loader before it becomes completely ineffective. As water and energy regulations become more stringent, manufacturers will have to adapt so it could be that their hands are tied. Modern top loaders are already for the most part not a great choice if one is buying new because so much has had to be compromised in order to meet guidelines, so I can only imagine how much worse it would get if they tried to keep them around. Probably better to just eventually axe them altogether rather than continue to sell an inferior product.
As far as having to pick between the environment and clean laundry, I absolutely believe both can happen. It doesn't have to be an either/or thing even if you have an old top loader like I do. Just wash full loads when possible, for example for a household of two I wait until both hampers are full and do two large loads every 5-7 days. If I had a front loader with greater capacity I imagine I could stretch that a bit further still. Ryne |
Post# 1185476 , Reply# 9   7/21/2023 at 23:15 (474 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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RyneR1988 pretty much wraps things up in a nutshell.
There are many reasons why top loading washers largely vanished from Europe post WWII and many of those are hitting USA market now that government keeps tightening up energy standards. There's no way around it; top loading washers with central beaters or even impellers still require certain amount of water to do their job. You can only reduce water level but so much before one is simply beating things about. Of course it's probably federal government's long game plan to get shot of top loading washers as known, period. Give it another generation or so and one predicts most if not all will go way of Dodo, at least in current configuration. All this being said according to members with working daily knowledge of sales and customer use of SQ washers most seem happy with energy restricted cycles or whatever. |
Post# 1185510 , Reply# 11   7/22/2023 at 09:52 (473 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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@Laundress: If one ignores all those on the net gripping about the down falls and byproducts of HE. Speed Queen had a following for the reason many users were unhappy with HE machines and the absurdities which come with them. Sadly the rest of the population doesn't care. Clothes in, something happens, clothes out. The mid/late 2000s taught me that clothes can literally come out worse than they came in and the washer could mold without inhibition but it wouldn't matter to the average user because the towels smelled like softener.
But regardless of what happens, I do believe top loads will eventually disappear one way or another for the exact reasons you stated. In the 2000s I remember visiting several service techs at local appliance dealers telling me that in a few years everything would be front load. That was 15-20 years ago, so I think the coming future has already been written.
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Post# 1185524 , Reply# 13   7/22/2023 at 12:14 (473 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 1185529 , Reply# 15   7/22/2023 at 12:57 (473 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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My only assumption is that "green" people prefer frontloaders over modern toploaders. Actually more fact than assumption.
Your assumptions are 1. "apparently in their zeal to back the "green" agenda', 2. "and also work in fairly affluent areas where people buying the expensive machines aren't known for getting dirty, at least in the physical sense." I would like to see evidence of that. Furthermore I think it is rude suggesting that members like John76 aren't speaking the truth when they say they like their TR. |
Post# 1185537 , Reply# 17   7/22/2023 at 14:47 (473 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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I think what upsets folks is the lack of diversity, not the existence of "green" consumers. Not that some green consumers aren't pushing their views to the point of shaming non green consumers, but thats not the real issue.
Appliance diversity peaked in the late 90s through the mid 2000s, and since then energy standards and greed have killed it off. The example I'll use is Sears. Back in the early 2000s you not only the greatest overall top load washers ever created but you could purchase a Maytag Dependable Care if seeking longevity, GE or Hotpoint washers if seeking economy with the largest capacity at the time, Whirlpool's colorful fabric selection control panel, the luxury of Kitchen-Aid, various Maytags if they appealed to you, Frigidaire causal folks- all with 30 minute cycle times, almost all had no lid lock, and the best clothing care you could ever get. If you wanted engineering simplicity at its finest there was the Fisher and Paykal top load. Portable world washers for space saving, where the VMW should have stayed. That satisfied the non green folks. The green folks had a Whirlpool duets with the option of a heater, Maytag Neptunes with the option a heater, Kenmore FLs, Frigidaires. If seeking luxury there was Bosch. If you wanted a HE but in top load flavor there was the Maytag with the two plates, the Calypso in both the Kenmore and Whirlpool version, the GE harmony, and IIRC a Cabrio type machine came along later on. Maytag drying center if you wanted it. Just off the top of my head.
All, and I mean ALL folks could get anything they were seeking, in any balance, at any budget, at any level, with longevity and clothing care that simply unmatched today. Even an extensive quiet pack, which was so common among the upper end lineups, could be obtained standard on MOL and TOL models.
And that was just washers. Don't get me started on Dryers, Dishwashers, Ovens... Polara range anyone?
This utopia simply does not exist today. All front loads and all top loads are literally carbon copies of the same distant ancestor that was never intended to be a full size machine, all equally deprived of material, equally washing in wet nap states, equally slow fills, equally long cycle times, equally poor clothing care, equally blasé cleaning, equal lid locks. Despite the fact most of it has nothing to do with economic, technological, or energy infeasibility- ie the Hydrowave washers applied DC to the motor to get around the lid lock. Why can't all 20 different brands do the same today? Or have less restrictive fills valves? Or come with a sound pack next model up? All the while so many FLs still lack water heating.
The diversity is gone, which goes against all human ideals. I don't like exclusion.
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Post# 1185538 , Reply# 18   7/22/2023 at 15:02 (473 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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I know you are probably accustomed to front loaders, but I am waging a bet that if tried a Kenmore Elite TL in person you might begin to question your affinity for HE & front load washers. I only ask that you take a look at these two pairs from the height of US appliance diversity- hands down the greatest overall washer and dryer ever made by humans- can be seen below. These two rival or excel most EU laundry machines in all categories except extraction and energy but the payoff makes everything else very worth it IMO. Everything you could ever ask for and then some in a laundry pair. The vid doesn't do justice.
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Post# 1185542 , Reply# 19   7/22/2023 at 15:24 (473 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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I don't think I need to be converted nor do I think others should be converted. But before you think you got a mission, I have been in the USA and in Canada quite a few times and have stayed at people's homes and also visited conventions and wash-ins. I think I have used more classic and modern North American machines than you have used European machines. Besides that I have had quite a few washers myself from all sorts. So I know what is out there on your side of the pond.
But that is not what my point was about. My main point was that it is rude to accuse people who say they like their machine of lying. |
Post# 1185544 , Reply# 20   7/22/2023 at 15:43 (473 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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I'm glad that we can agree no one should be force converted- just the way non green folks should not be converted to green folks and visa versa.
I still wish you could try a TOL Kenmore Elite for the fun of it just so I could get your take on it. You have a lot of insight to offer on these things.
Regarding WindRivers I think he may have been referring to member Combo52 (who likes to be called John) instead of member John76 since I remember combo52 made a statement about the TR motors using less energy than the TCs. Windrivers would ultimately be able to clarify. |
Post# 1185545 , Reply# 21   7/22/2023 at 15:53 (473 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 1185547 , Reply# 22   7/22/2023 at 16:11 (473 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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I don't understand what's so special about that Kenmore Elite. Just a three speed direct drive IMHO. I prefer the series before this one because that at least had all the temperature options (including Hot-Warm).
But I have used other American machines that I liked better. I prefer the belt drive Whirlpool machines because their sound is way nicer. I also liked the older Speed Queens with the clanking solenoids including the beautiful 1959 model with dispenser. I have used Frigidaire Unimatics, Multimatics, Pulsamatics etc. etc. I have "played" with Maytags, Speed Queens, Whirlpools and Kenmores and lots of other machines. I also watched new and/or commercial machines working etc. etc. That Kenmore Elite doesn't get me excited I'm afraid. |
Post# 1185556 , Reply# 23   7/22/2023 at 17:47 (473 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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I agree with Louis on the older Whirlpool belt drive machines. They have a unique sound that’s distinguishable/easily identifiable and is cool seeing everything in operation with the rear access panel removed. Crazy as this sounds, I have more experience with the belt drive machines than I do the direct drives, so far the experience has been great. Making repairs and adjustments can be a little cumbersome if you are trying to do it in a laundry room but if you can move it out to a driveway or a open garage, getting access to everything is a cinch. Nice thing is the neutral drain can’t really fail on those machines unless the plunger for the spin is broken causing the tub to spin when agitating.
It’s been awhile since I’ve used my Whirlpool but I have to either find a replacement timer or find someone who can scan and 3D print the original cam assembly in the timer since it unfortunately separated on me earlier this January and the repair attempt mostly worked but doesn’t do anything on the gentle cycle other than fill up, agitate, and drain. Could get away with not using the gentle cycle but usually like to have everything in working order before putting it back into service. Don’t feel like taking it apart more than I have to and just want to get every done correctly the first time around. |
Post# 1185560 , Reply# 24   7/22/2023 at 18:28 (473 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1185568 , Reply# 26   7/22/2023 at 20:18 (473 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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WindRivers, your member profile shows your sign-up date as April 2022 so you haven't been posting very long. You may have been reading the board prior to that date but you're apparently not aware of the history. Combo52, aka John Lefever, is an experienced service technician and appliance dealer in Beltsville MD area. He and his brother Jeff_Adelphi (Jeff Lefever) are among the founding members of this group. A large gathering was held at their location in August 2002. Many early members were there. I was there (also at the 2001 gathering in Minneapolis and 2005 in Omaha). Perhaps the information at this link will be of interest to you. Development of the Automatic Washer Club |
Post# 1185579 , Reply# 28   7/22/2023 at 21:01 (473 days old) by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis)   |   | |
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Post# 1185581 , Reply# 29   7/22/2023 at 21:04 (473 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Jeff , I stopped even bothering responding to your nonsense. When you say things like an induction motor is 90% efficient. It gave me my laugh of the day.
Why do you think manufactures would go to all the trouble of doing a three phase motor with a circuit board and everything if an induction motor is 90% efficient answer that please. New machines use a fraction of the materials in energy to build even if they last a much shorter time they’re still going to save a lot of energy if you don’t like that want to keep your old machines more power to you. I am still working full-time. I don’t have time to answer nonsense questions all the time I will occasionally answer them if you make an intelligent question. I also don’t take people very seriously ifthey don’t post anything about themselves their experience, their age where they live you just don’t have any credibility. John |
Post# 1185601 , Reply# 31   7/23/2023 at 03:52 (472 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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I think Reply 29 is a perfect microcosm of what WindRivers is getting at.
Further withholding credibility based on age or location comes across as a form of discrimination. I in particular can see that being triggering to young members whom from an early age know more about washers than most adults, but are not taken seriously by those around them simply because they are seen as kids, young, on the spectrum, ect, ect. And that would be ignoring the fact this community is comprised of many members who face discrimination on a daily basis ie not everyone can grasp LGBTQIA++, minority struggles, Neuro diversity, appliance passion, ect ect.
This forum has to be a safe place for everyone regardless of who they are, they're life experience, or their background. Putting individuals down is not ok. Nobody here deserves to be spoken down to.
The goal should be to discuss appliance and associated physics not people as a person or their character.
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Post# 1185603 , Reply# 32   7/23/2023 at 04:41 (472 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Uh. Speed Queen's 3 phase motors are induction motors.
There is no 3 phase motor vs an induction motor. Both are classified as induction due to their squirrel cage rotor.
One just happens to be single phase capacitor start, the other 3 phase variable frequency driven.
If you're going to state facts, get your terminology right.
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Post# 1185605 , Reply# 33   7/23/2023 at 05:19 (472 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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@Foraloysius: These are very special washers in that they have every feature one could ever ask for.
Speed, reliability, durability, clothing care, cleaning, performance, usability, ease of service, ect.
20+ year life expectancy, king size capacity, auto soak and auto prewash cycles, a real cool down, auto temperature control in both the wash and rinse, 3 automatic dispensers, timed bleach, a real permanent press cool down, extra rinse, immaculate thorough wash action, real handwash and fine delicate speeds, real heavy duty cycle, auto second rinse, arthritis friendly knobs, dual action agitator, one of the best suspension systems, multi padding quiet pack, 30 minute cycles, one of the fastest fills, thorough rinsing, best cleaning ever, great extraction... I'm leaving a lot out.
No other washer comes close in many regards, all the positives in every make, model and brand rolled into one Kenmore Elite.
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Post# 1185626 , Reply# 34   7/23/2023 at 09:26 (472 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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20+ year life expectancy, king size capacity, auto soak and auto prewash cycles, a real cool down, auto temperature control in both the wash and rinse, 3 automatic dispensers, timed bleach, a real permanent press cool down, extra rinse, immaculate thorough wash action, real handwash and fine delicate speeds, real heavy duty cycle, auto second rinse, arthritis friendly knobs, dual action agitator, one of the best suspension systems, multi padding quiet pack, 30 minute cycles, one of the fastest fills, thorough rinsing, best cleaning ever, great extraction... I'm leaving a lot out.And the majority of consumers who own(ed) one ended up running the Normal/Ultra Clean cycle (maybe with extra rinse) on maximum speed and non-ATC cold temperature at half-ish the usable capacity? ;-) |
Post# 1185637 , Reply# 35   7/23/2023 at 11:05 (472 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Sometime- but got the cleanest clothes in the world, in 30 minutes, at low sound levels, for 20 years with few lemons. Just can't beat it.
Most around here use warm wash, so cold was rarely in the equation.
I'm just glad I was able to see this piece of history when it was on the Sears sales floor in the mid 2000s when I could moderately appreciate what I was experiencing. Today that appreciation has only grown. |
Post# 1185651 , Reply# 36   7/23/2023 at 14:53 (472 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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I prefer the tc series. I don't see the tr series removing tough ground-in dirt from jeans like the tc can with its powerful motor. We are talking about when both are on heavy duty. |
Post# 1185655 , Reply# 37   7/23/2023 at 15:20 (472 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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I don't see the tr series removing tough ground-in dirt from jeans like the tc can with its powerful motor.The TR motor is rated at 1 HP per the stated product specifications. The TC motor is rated half HP. Perhaps you should try washing jeans with ground-in dirt in a TR model on the appropriate Heavy Duty cycle to determine whether your prediction is correct. |
Post# 1185663 , Reply# 38   7/23/2023 at 16:32 (472 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)   |   | |
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I am going to buy the 1st 2nd hand TR I find and try it out :) |
Post# 1185675 , Reply# 39   7/23/2023 at 17:45 (472 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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Have you seen the wash action on both on the same "heavy duty" cycle? It looks anemic on the tr compared to the tc. I'm just saying. I'm sure Chetlaham the OP knows what I'm talking about. I've seen youtube videos of both machines. |
Post# 1185676 , Reply# 40   7/23/2023 at 17:54 (472 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Jerome, I know exactly what you're talking about. History is proof of that. Very few agi tub washers have been made through out time, and those that were, did not remain on the market very long. In fact there are videos of appliance techs openly stating agi tub washers are poor performers. Even John (Combo 52) has stated Speed Queen will sell fewer toploads due to the agi tub design. Lorain Furniture and Appliances also said it, only to have Speed Queen go after his Youtube channel. The defensive nature of Speed Queen, Speed Queen deleting negative reviews, followed by the release of the TC, followed by increased cycle times on the newest TR- shows that even Speed Queen themselves know the TR series is mediocre on working clothes.
Everyone knows.
Not to say those with lightly soiled clothes are getting great results, but for more hands on folks that doesn't seem to be the case. |
Post# 1185677 , Reply# 41   7/23/2023 at 18:53 (472 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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I think we should put the subject of the TR machines to rest, we all know that they don’t wash all the great, consume more water than their predecessors, and are more expensive as well. I have nothing against people wanting to create threads and conversations along with going over things that may have been overlooked a few years ago, I just seem to notice that when we keep on bringing up and talking about the same thing over and over and yes I’ll admit I’ve done it a few times as well over the years but that being said, it just seems to create arguments with one another and it just seems to keep on going forever. I think if we start focusing more on the present and future, time will march forward but if we keep on dwelling on the same thing over and over, tomorrow and change simply won’t happen.
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Post# 1185739 , Reply# 42   7/24/2023 at 09:45 (471 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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Could it be possible that SQ does not discontinue the TR because it would be admitting they made a mistake? And admitting a mistake could make them vulnerable to lawsuits? If they admit it, SQ could be liable for replacing thousands of TR machines if there is a class action lawsuit (and there probably is one already). I wonder how many TC models they sell in proportion to TR models, if there are too many, SQ should never admit it.
If there were some way to separate the agitator and the tub during washing and keep the tub stationary they could probably use the new motor system and still have good washing results. If I ran SQ I might quietly do that and also have a kit to convert the ones machines out there to the new system. |
Post# 1185741 , Reply# 43   7/24/2023 at 09:58 (471 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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If there were some way to separate the agitator and the tub during washing and keep the tub stationary they could probably use the new motor system and still have good washing results.That would involve more complexity for a mode-shifter or similar mechanics and circuitry to control it. (No engineer in his right mind would ever again do something simple and clever like F&P's floating basket, LOL). |
Post# 1185755 , Reply# 45   7/24/2023 at 14:07 (471 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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The video above... the farmer expressing his total dissatisfaction with his SQ washer.... Did SQ really tell him that? That this washer was designed for people who work in an office that don't get really dirty? If that's what they told him WOW!!
I mean, even if my clothes didn't get really dirty... I wouldn't want a washer that could at the very best could clean slightly dirty clothes.. I haven't really kept up with this SAGA over the years. So I have no clue. I just remember when these were first introduced on the forum 99% of the people on here seemed to be in utter shock at how horrible it washed and I was with them...it looked like it could only clean if it were like a 1/2 load... and anything thick like jeans or coats or something like that... they would remain at the top the ENTIRE time. |
Post# 1185768 , Reply# 46   7/24/2023 at 19:02 (471 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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I have a feeling that Speed Queen Laundry is headed for a lawsuit just like Maytag did. They're gonna be forced to making the classic machines and drop the perfect wash series. Look at the thousands of complaints. |
Post# 1185807 , Reply# 47   7/25/2023 at 06:56 (470 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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This wash action is just so stupid. I believe university students came up with this pathetic agitation. Nothing has changed. There's no turnover whatsoever. GEEZ! CLICK HERE TO GO TO GELaundry4ever's LINK |
Post# 1185814 , Reply# 48   7/25/2023 at 09:53 (470 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1185830 , Reply# 49   7/25/2023 at 14:05 (470 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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Post# 1185838 , Reply# 50   7/25/2023 at 16:53 (470 days old) by John76 (USA)   |   | |
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Interesting to see the number of comments suggesting the person use the Auto-Fill function. I have a theory the TR washers performs better when you do so. |
Post# 1185840 , Reply# 51   7/25/2023 at 17:35 (470 days old) by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis)   |   | |
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John, I agree with you re the auto fill and I think this can apply to most washers that have an auto-fill function. I believe that when left to our own devices we tend to over-estimate how much water we need to effectively clean a load of laundry. It's why I only use the highest water level on my direct drive Whirlpool with a completely full load. Anything below that, I tend to go down a water level or two unless I'm doing one large item like a blanket. When I had a Whirlpool VMW machine, I always used the auto-fill function and it performed very well. I think the other trick is to avoid the normal cycle with large loads on most modern day machines. In my experience that only works on small to medium loads of lightly soiled laundry. The heavy duty cycle with auto fill enabled will provide very effective results in most cases and on most machines. Many washers have a soil button where you can decrease the agitation time if you don't like the amount the default heavy cycle gives.
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Post# 1185857 , Reply# 52   7/25/2023 at 21:57 (470 days old) by BlockEight88 (Northwest, IN)   |   | |
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Post# 1185900 , Reply# 53   7/26/2023 at 12:24 (469 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Honestly, if I was to choose between a new in box 2002 Kenmore Elite and my current Speed Queen I might actually trade it for the Kenmore. Only thing I would do it is remove the neutral drain pack and install a commercial duty clutch.
Out of all the washers ever produced the Kenmore and Kenmore Elite lineup ranks #1 in many categories even outdoing the Speed Queen Classic series IMO.
About the only category the Speed Queen Classic series ranks above the Kenmore is vibration is balancing. And durability.
The rest is up for debate, even longevity is a maybe, in that DDs lasting 20+ years without repair is a commonality. |
Post# 1186037 , Reply# 55   7/28/2023 at 09:15 (467 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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As the saying goes: "its not what they think, its that the don't think"
Speed Queen deeply misunderstands their customer base . Whirlpool and GE may have successfully tricked most customers into buying mediocre products because the average consumer knows little about laundry where as the average Speed Queen customer is self educated specifically seeking a non BS laundry machine. All they had was trust, hence why people went along with the TR, now that its gone Speed Queen has to basically win people back. |
Post# 1186061 , Reply# 57   7/28/2023 at 13:38 (467 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
This post has been removed by the member who posted it. |
Post# 1186078 , Reply# 58   7/28/2023 at 17:14 (467 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 1186130 , Reply# 60   7/29/2023 at 00:34 (467 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )   |   | |
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It took a while for me to get my partner to stop stuffing full the washer a few years ago. He'd have it so full there was hardly any space left for any water and boy when it went into the dryer did it stink our house up some good, like a dirty locker room stink . To be honest I hadn't really been paying attention to what he was doing and it was the stink that got me up out of the chair to see where it was emanating from
Things are much better now but I do occaionally go check |
Post# 1186159 , Reply# 61   7/29/2023 at 11:14 (466 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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And this is the reason why today's machines have such big tubs in my opinion. Most people just want to stuff everything in without sorting anything. |
Post# 1186198 , Reply# 62   7/29/2023 at 20:03 (466 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 1186247 , Reply# 63   7/30/2023 at 07:16 (465 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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In my opinion, this is encouragement for just plain stuffing everything into a single load. How will you get clean clothes this way? |
Post# 1186255 , Reply# 64   7/30/2023 at 10:52 (465 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 1186257 , Reply# 65   7/30/2023 at 11:22 (465 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)   |   | |
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Post# 1186351 , Reply# 67   7/30/2023 at 22:01 (465 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)   |   | |
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That mid-1970s era British car was much-maligned as well :) |
Post# 1186684 , Reply# 69   8/3/2023 at 07:08 (461 days old) by John76 (USA)   |   | |
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You can see why the Speed Queen was probably the only top load washing machine that would fit into this room.
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Post# 1186704 , Reply# 70   8/3/2023 at 12:44 (461 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)   |   | |
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Post# 1186767 , Reply# 71   8/3/2023 at 21:11 (461 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1186846 , Reply# 72   8/4/2023 at 20:16 (460 days old) by Qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 1186853 , Reply# 73   8/4/2023 at 21:10 (460 days old) by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis)   |   | |
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Dan, I totally agree with you and have wondered about this often. Surely the lack of a transmission doesn't mean SQ can't unbolt the agitator from the tub, create a true dual-action system, and have a 360-degree stroke like that found on the agitator VMW machines. I honestly liked the wash action on my VMW Whirlpool but the noise was horrible and it wasn't reliable. I'd actually buy one of the TR machines if it had that wash action. That as well as being transmissionless and virtually silent would make it a great machine for many people including myself. SQ definitely missed an opportunity there.
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Post# 1187021 , Reply# 74   8/7/2023 at 00:46 (458 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Sounds like a crazy idea, but I wish they’d add a selector switch or a selectable program to choose the degree of agitation suited for the load you are washing. Shorter and faster strokes of agitation for aggressive wash action or long and slow agitation strokes for lightly soiled items or delicates. Definitely would add flexibility to the machine since you would literally be able to literally select the degree of the agitation arc.
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Post# 1187030 , Reply# 75   8/7/2023 at 06:52 (457 days old) by John76 (USA)   |   | |
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The TR series does have a different wash action for each cycle, heavy duty being the most aggressive. |
Post# 1196474 , Reply# 76   1/3/2024 at 07:53 (308 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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The tr series will be pushed even more this year. You can count on it. STUPID! |
Post# 1196527 , Reply# 77   1/4/2024 at 15:08 (307 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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Here we are in 2024 and it will get worse, especially now that cold water washing is being forced upon us even more. It doesn't matter who's in office. |
Post# 1205603 , Reply# 78   5/18/2024 at 14:09 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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I will never use normal eco, period. I just want clean clothes. Experience taught me that anything high efficiency is a farce. FAIL!!!! |
Post# 1205619 , Reply# 79   5/19/2024 at 08:24 by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Americans are to blame. If you want high efficiency get a front loader to heat the water from cold with detergent formulated to work in stages. Anything else is playing pretend. There is no other way to do it. Either replicate the EU system or stick with a full tub of hot/warm water and a central agitator. Either works, anything in between won't. Evidence based reasoning needs to come to fruition. |
Post# 1205631 , Reply# 80   5/19/2024 at 10:55 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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( Americans are to blame )
Boy, that’s a nasty thought. There is nothing particularly efficient about heating cold water with an electric heater in front load washer unless you already have an all electric house with resistance electric water heating. Warm rinseing in a top loader doesn’t improve cleaning at all. Front loading washers far out clean top load washers because of the higher detergent, concentration and longer cycle time and use far less energy. TR Speed Queen top load washers use far less electricity and spin the clothes drier and the TC series Speed Queens, they do take longer, however, and they do not have as strong an agitation, but they do an excellent job getting stains out while being easy on clothing, it’s your choice. What type of washer you want that’s one of the wonderful things about living in the US. We have a wide choice of sizes and styles of machines, including a lot of great imported washing machines for people that want compact high-efficiency washers. John |
Post# 1205636 , Reply# 81   5/19/2024 at 11:40 by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Idling a tank, having the heat radiate off into the walls, then filling the machine with cooled water is the epitome of wasting energy. Heating the water inside the machine to the specific fabric type saves energy while simultaneously producing superior cleaning results- both of which have been proven by every objective measure over the last of 80 years. Detergent concentration alone does not mimic staggered cleaning. Americans can wait two hours to do a load of laundry, yet no one has considered that a 1,500 watt heater would be more than sufficient to amply heat the water in that time period. Show me all the 120 volt 60Hz US machine which let you choose a dozen boosted wash temperatures based on fabric type all the way up to a boil wash. I'll wait...
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Post# 1205664 , Reply# 82   5/19/2024 at 14:39 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Jerome, why do you keep on bringing these old threads back? As mentioned, we all new the TR machines aren’t great.
Btw, here’s the comment from Jerome in a reply on YouTube. He seems to to fixated 1000x more on this subject than I ever have (maybe for me in late 2017/early 2018, but that’s a long time ago) in the almost 7 years I’ve been on the site.
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Post# 1205665 , Reply# 83   5/19/2024 at 14:43 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1205675 , Reply# 85   5/19/2024 at 15:46 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1205753 , Reply# 86   5/20/2024 at 11:06 by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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To be fair, I think we must also consider this through Jerome's life experience. He has witnessed a very tough good performing washer (and appliance line in general), one with the most weight and metal, turn into the ultimate diorama of obsolesce by design. The transformation so stark that it is enough to radicalize even a reasonable person. Whirlpool, Maytag, Westinghouse, Frigidaire, Hobart, ect all had either betterment in quality, a very slow yet steady decline or their original products were of poor make to begin with. For many of us here there was no real "shock" into the modern transition. It was gradual over the span of 30-50 years as appose to 6 months. |
Post# 1205801 , Reply# 89   5/20/2024 at 21:28 by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Jerome- word of advice- don't discredit yourself. Don't hand out free kryptonite to your detractors. 17 years is a compliment to GE. Many post FF washers did not last that long. And when they did fail, they had to be scrapped. If 17 years was the norm I'd be celebrating.
I get your analogy. A pragmatic washer sounds like music. A durable washer sings with fineness. Post FF washers sounded like self destruction while TR Speed Queens sound like a ghost. Neither pleasant. |
Post# 1205805 , Reply# 90   5/20/2024 at 23:10 by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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If i look at this from a positive you they will improuve the model i know because if it would not of been for the high price the tr7 or tc 5 washer dryer set i would of own back in 2021 i am still keeping in note these 2 models because i curently have a maytag but the big question i am asking myself is how long will it last its curently giving me the F0E4 error code water to hot so i have been questoning myself if its not a defect from the washer itself when i go in diognostic mode and test hot water it works fine
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Post# 1205818 , Reply# 92   5/21/2024 at 06:09 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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A lot of youtube repair techs will talk about how all other appliances are junk and that your best option would be a SQ... but it annoys me that they never elaborate on the TR 7 being pretty bad in comparison to the other SQ models..I feel like in their mind as long as it's SQ it will last and that's all that matters... it doesn't matter if it rolls over the load painfully slow. If I were a tech making videos recommending SQ, I would at least say (avoid this particlar series) but the rest are fine..
I've seen it do pretty well at rolling over a load if it's something like sheets or towels..but jeans or anything stiff...the yellow microfiber cloth thrown in on the top STAYED on the top through the ENTIRE wash... It just floated there the entire time. |
Post# 1205823 , Reply# 93   5/21/2024 at 09:01 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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This is why I prefer the Speed Queen Classic. My apartment complex has the coin operated version. |
Post# 1206390 , Reply# 96   5/28/2024 at 14:31 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)   |   | |
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Post# 1206758 , Reply# 97   6/2/2024 at 10:36 by William8 (Michigan)   |   | |
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Since when is indie music "nice and smooth"? It can be any style of music. Remember Grunge?
I don't worry about the TR series, my wife wanted a top loader, so I chose the TC5. No one will force you to get the TR. I've done about 8 loads so far (three weeks old), and I like it. Have only used the "bulky" setting so far, seems perfect for a standard load, and only takes 35 minutes. Haven't even tried deep fill yet, except for initial test load to clean the new washer. Bulky water level is about right for our loads, covers the clothes/towels, etc. |
Post# 1206888 , Reply# 98   6/4/2024 at 11:40 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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I'm just coming up with an analogy between indie and speed queen. |
Post# 1206895 , Reply# 99   6/4/2024 at 14:32 by William8 (Michigan)   |   | |
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Post# 1206901 , Reply# 100   6/4/2024 at 15:37 by luxflairguy (Wilmington NC)   |   | |
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William! What doe this have to do with Speed Queen? Don't change the subject please! |
Post# 1206928 , Reply# 101   6/5/2024 at 01:22 by William8 (Michigan)   |   | |
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Post# 1214907 , Reply# 103   9/16/2024 at 10:51 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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Check out the great washing machine scam thread. I believe the so-called perfect wash series fits into this category, as do most washers on the market whether top or front loading. Virtually zero water to clean anything. |
Post# 1214917 , Reply# 104   9/16/2024 at 13:37 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)   |   | |
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I am still going to buy the first 2nd hand TR I find. |
Post# 1214926 , Reply# 105   9/16/2024 at 15:45 by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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Post# 1215164 , Reply# 106   9/19/2024 at 16:17 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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Just saw a random video on youtube... not a professional one. Just a lady videoing her garden stains and her speed queen. Apparently, she lived in a duplex type setup with her son being on the other side. She used to have a whirlpool front loader which she gave to him that's on the other side... It looked older...Like maybe 2014 or so.. So she sprayed her stained with dirt garden shorts with shout...put them in the Speed queen TR... the stain was still there. She sounded like she knew nothing about washers... but she said if she has really dirty stuff, she has to take it over to her sons front loader and wash them in that... LOL... which she did... and they came clean.
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Post# 1215199 , Reply# 108   9/20/2024 at 00:02 by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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