Thread Number: 93877  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Will The TR Series Ever Go Away? Please?
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Post# 1185373   7/21/2023 at 00:09 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Post# 1185374 , Reply# 1   7/21/2023 at 00:20 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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It seems as though companies basically Ďput lipstick on a pigí thinking that will solve the problem but itís simply covering up a shoddy product and design. If the government is going to mandate certain regulations that Ďwater downí products, then maybe they should (the government) try out the machines themselves and see how they like them and if employees and politicians of the government arenít satisfied with them, then so are we. If that happened back in 2018, they basically would get a taste of their own medicine.

Post# 1185377 , Reply# 2   7/21/2023 at 00:43 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Took the words right out of my finger tips. Perhaps those passing the laws ought to try using these machines in person, coming from companies with limited resources to re-engineer their machines out of the blue to do what the laws of physics will essentially not allow.


HE has literally put companies out of business, ruined the reputation for others, overflown landfills, caused health issues, wasted resources and made countless customers outraged just for beginners. 


Speed Queen is not shoddy or bad design IMO, they perfected the early Amana design such that it can compete with DDs and DCs. However, now that HE mandates are in effect they were forced to reinvent an already perfected design without ample resources, engineering, time and testing. 


Hopefully the TR is just a temporary bridge until Speed Queen can make a descent mod shifter and brake.  

Post# 1185417 , Reply# 3   7/21/2023 at 14:50 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
tr series going away

I don't think it will EVER go away, unfortunately. Most Americans are too stupid to know how a washing machine works. The environmentalists are also too stupid to know how laundry should get done. I pray that these people will have a wake up call. And I mean a rude awakening. Clothes need water and agitation.
What does the government not understand? It's only gonna get worse as long as these people remain in power. Speed Queen should've competed with the GE hydrowave. We rather have clean laundry than care for the environment! You can't do both with HE whatsoever. Why are there so many complaints?

Post# 1185420 , Reply# 4   7/21/2023 at 15:20 by qsd-dan (West)        

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The entire TR series represents inefficiency. Using a bunch of water and tickling the clothes, providing almost no rollover and poor cleaning results is taking steps backwards, not forwards. Much better off using a front loader with a heater.

Post# 1185421 , Reply# 5   7/21/2023 at 15:59 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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The whole TR series could just be a conspiracy (more than likely) to force people into buying front load machines which I am not too crazy about. Would only own a front loader if it was built like a Dexter commercial machine which dates back to at least the 50ís since Dexter machines are based off of the Philco-Bendix design, would be even more intriguing if a washer dryer combo was available from Dexter as well.

Post# 1185433 , Reply# 6   7/21/2023 at 18:28 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

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They won't ever discontinue them. But if they did, it'd be for banning top loaders all together which I think it could happen here one of these days. If people have any doubts of buying a TR machine, my advise is to not get one. I know I had mine when I tried out this TR7 before but I was honestly shocked by how well it did my laundry, one of those moments where I shouldn't judge until after I try it out. Of course I still don't think it's as good or better than a SQ classic but I really do like it. I wouldn't mind owning one of these if I were to pass on a SQ classic. But if I were to get a SQ washer, it'd be a front loader.

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Post# 1185434 , Reply# 7   7/21/2023 at 18:38 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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If top loaders are banned, there goes our choices of what we want and what other people want.

Post# 1185443 , Reply# 8   7/21/2023 at 20:59 by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis)        

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If top loaders are discontinued, it will be because manufacturers have realized there's only so efficient one can make a top loader before it becomes completely ineffective. As water and energy regulations become more stringent, manufacturers will have to adapt so it could be that their hands are tied. Modern top loaders are already for the most part not a great choice if one is buying new because so much has had to be compromised in order to meet guidelines, so I can only imagine how much worse it would get if they tried to keep them around. Probably better to just eventually axe them altogether rather than continue to sell an inferior product.

As far as having to pick between the environment and clean laundry, I absolutely believe both can happen. It doesn't have to be an either/or thing even if you have an old top loader like I do. Just wash full loads when possible, for example for a household of two I wait until both hampers are full and do two large loads every 5-7 days. If I had a front loader with greater capacity I imagine I could stretch that a bit further still.


Post# 1185476 , Reply# 9   7/21/2023 at 23:15 by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        

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RyneR1988 pretty much wraps things up in a nutshell.

There are many reasons why top loading washers largely vanished from Europe post WWII and many of those are hitting USA market now that government keeps tightening up energy standards.

There's no way around it; top loading washers with central beaters or even impellers still require certain amount of water to do their job. You can only reduce water level but so much before one is simply beating things about.

Of course it's probably federal government's long game plan to get shot of top loading washers as known, period. Give it another generation or so and one predicts most if not all will go way of Dodo, at least in current configuration.

All this being said according to members with working daily knowledge of sales and customer use of SQ washers most seem happy with energy restricted cycles or whatever.

Post# 1185501 , Reply# 10   7/22/2023 at 07:11 by John76 (USA)        

Love my TR-5. It replaced a 23 year old old school Maytag top loader. My laundry area is on the first floor and the TR5 fits perfectly in the space where the Maytag was. I have cabinets above the washer and drier and the SQ was about the only washer that had a lid height low enough to clear them.

What I really like about the machine is how quiet it operates versus the old Maytag which made a racket. I have no issues with how it cleans and have a theory that it works best if you use the Auto-fill setting for all your loads. I just washed a towel I used dozens of times to wipe off my golf clubs and shoes after a round of golf. I washed it in warm water with my bath towels on a heavy duty cycle and it came out great.

Post# 1185510 , Reply# 11   7/22/2023 at 09:52 by chetlaham (United States)        

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@Laundress: If one ignores all those on the net gripping about the down falls and byproducts of HE. Speed Queen had a following for the reason many users were unhappy with HE machines and the absurdities which come with them. Sadly the rest of the population doesn't care. Clothes in, something happens, clothes out. The mid/late 2000s taught me that clothes can literally come out worse than they came in and the washer could mold without inhibition but it wouldn't matter to the average user because the towels smelled like softener.


But regardless of what happens, I do believe top loads will eventually disappear one way or another for the exact reasons you stated. In the 2000s I remember visiting several service techs at local appliance dealers telling me that in a few years everything would be front load. That was 15-20 years ago, so I think the coming future has already been written.



Post# 1185522 , Reply# 12   7/22/2023 at 12:04 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Maybe most are happy with the TR series and TC "Normal Eco" and such. But it would appear that the satisfaction rate, at least for the TR series, isn't anywhere near the rate for other machines. Even if only 10% are dissatisfied with a series, I would think that would still be a large number of people and a big hit to the reputation and overall satisfaction rate and trust that Speed Queen had earned.

From what I've seen, some "knowledgeable" members don't represent the facts honestly and fairly, apparently in their zeal to back the "green" agenda, and also work in fairly affluent areas where people buying the expensive machines aren't known for getting dirty, at least in the physical sense.

Post# 1185524 , Reply# 13   7/22/2023 at 12:14 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Assumptions, assumptions. Well my assumption is that people backing that green agenda would prefer frontloaders over the Speed Queen TR series. I think itís at least impolite to say that people who like their TR are not speaking the truth.

Post# 1185525 , Reply# 14   7/22/2023 at 12:34 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

I can give you specifics, like John saying that the 1 hp motor in the TR uses 1/4 the energy of the 1/2 hp motor in the TC. He never would back up his "fact" when asked how a motor can use 1/4 the electricity of a motor that is already well over 90% efficient.

That's just one example. It's not an assumption. I've watched that member in particular throw out all kinds of stuff as if it's fact, and yes, it generally is in defense of the physics defying front loaders, but he also likes to defend pretty much all government regulations and modern manufacturing practices, and has, in fact, recently talked up the "Eco Normal" cycle in the TC5 as a great product of government regulation.

So you need to look at a few threads before you make your assumptions.

Post# 1185529 , Reply# 15   7/22/2023 at 12:57 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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My only assumption is that "green" people prefer frontloaders over modern toploaders. Actually more fact than assumption.

Your assumptions are 1. "apparently in their zeal to back the "green" agenda', 2. "and also work in fairly affluent areas where people buying the expensive machines aren't known for getting dirty, at least in the physical sense."

I would like to see evidence of that.

Furthermore I think it is rude suggesting that members like John76 aren't speaking the truth when they say they like their TR.

Post# 1185535 , Reply# 16   7/22/2023 at 14:36 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
TR vs TC motor drive method

the motor in the TR (probably 3-phase) is inverter driven,while the TC motor is split phase ran off the line-in general use in the washer,running well below it's maximum power potential,the inverter driven motor will use less power than one running at full power all the time "off the line"

Post# 1185537 , Reply# 17   7/22/2023 at 14:47 by chetlaham (United States)        

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I think what upsets folks is the lack of diversity, not the existence of "green" consumers. Not that some green consumers aren't pushing their views to the point of shaming non green consumers, but thats not the real issue.


Appliance diversity peaked in the late 90s through the mid 2000s, and since then energy standards and greed have killed it off. The example I'll use is Sears. Back in the early 2000s you not only the greatest overall top load washers ever created but you could purchase a Maytag Dependable Care if seeking longevity, GE or Hotpoint washers if seeking economy with the largest capacity at the time, Whirlpool's colorful fabric selection control panel, the luxury of Kitchen-Aid, various Maytags if they appealed to you, Frigidaire causal folks- all with 30 minute cycle times, almost all had no lid lock, and the best clothing care you could ever get. If you wanted engineering simplicity at its finest there was the Fisher and Paykal top load. Portable world washers for space saving, where the VMW should have stayed. That satisfied the non green folks. The green folks had a Whirlpool duets with the option of a heater, Maytag Neptunes with the option a heater, Kenmore FLs, Frigidaires. If seeking luxury there was Bosch. If you wanted a HE but in top load flavor there was the Maytag with the two plates, the Calypso in both the Kenmore and Whirlpool version, the GE harmony, and IIRC a Cabrio type machine came along later on. Maytag drying center if you wanted it. Just off the top of my head.


All, and I mean ALL folks could get anything they were seeking, in any balance, at any budget, at any level, with longevity and clothing care that simply unmatched today. Even an extensive quiet pack, which was so common among the upper end lineups, could be obtained standard on MOL and TOL models. 


And that was just washers. Don't get me started on Dryers, Dishwashers, Ovens... Polara range anyone? laughing


This utopia simply does not exist today. All front loads and all top loads are literally carbon copies of the same distant ancestor that was never intended to be a full size machine, all equally deprived of material, equally washing in wet nap states, equally slow fills, equally long cycle times, equally poor clothing care, equally blasé cleaning, equal lid locks. Despite the fact most of it has nothing to do with economic, technological, or energy infeasibility- ie the Hydrowave washers applied DC to the motor to get around the lid lock. Why can't all 20 different brands do the same today? Or have less restrictive fills valves? Or come with a sound pack next model up? All the while so many FLs still lack water heating. 



The diversity is gone, which goes against all human ideals. I don't like exclusion.


Post# 1185538 , Reply# 18   7/22/2023 at 15:02 by chetlaham (United States)        
@Foraoysius- I Can Convert You :)

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I know you are probably accustomed to front loaders, but I am waging a bet that if tried a Kenmore Elite TL in person you might begin to question your affinity for HE & front load washers.  I only ask that you take a look at these two pairs from the height of US appliance diversity- hands down the greatest overall washer and dryer ever made by humans- can be seen below. These two rival or excel most EU laundry machines in all categories except extraction and energy but the payoff makes everything else very worth it IMO. Everything you could ever ask for and then some in a laundry pair. The vid doesn't do justice. 




Post# 1185542 , Reply# 19   7/22/2023 at 15:24 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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I don't think I need to be converted nor do I think others should be converted. But before you think you got a mission, I have been in the USA and in Canada quite a few times and have stayed at people's homes and also visited conventions and wash-ins. I think I have used more classic and modern North American machines than you have used European machines. Besides that I have had quite a few washers myself from all sorts. So I know what is out there on your side of the pond.

But that is not what my point was about. My main point was that it is rude to accuse people who say they like their machine of lying.

Post# 1185544 , Reply# 20   7/22/2023 at 15:43 by chetlaham (United States)        

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I'm glad that we can agree no one should be force converted- just the way non green folks should not be converted to green folks and visa versa.


I still wish you could try a TOL Kenmore Elite for the fun of it just so I could get your take on it. You have a lot of insight to offer on these things.


Regarding WindRivers I think he may have been referring to member Combo52 (who likes to be called John) instead of member John76 since I remember combo52 made a statement about the TR motors using less energy than the TCs. Windrivers would ultimately be able to clarify.

Post# 1185545 , Reply# 21   7/22/2023 at 15:53 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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No matter who he meant, itís rude to suggest people are not telling the truth. See also Brendanís statement about the inverter motor.

Post# 1185547 , Reply# 22   7/22/2023 at 16:11 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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I don't understand what's so special about that Kenmore Elite. Just a three speed direct drive IMHO. I prefer the series before this one because that at least had all the temperature options (including Hot-Warm).

But I have used other American machines that I liked better. I prefer the belt drive Whirlpool machines because their sound is way nicer. I also liked the older Speed Queens with the clanking solenoids including the beautiful 1959 model with dispenser. I have used Frigidaire Unimatics, Multimatics, Pulsamatics etc. etc.

I have "played" with Maytags, Speed Queens, Whirlpools and Kenmores and lots of other machines. I also watched new and/or commercial machines working etc. etc. That Kenmore Elite doesn't get me excited I'm afraid.

Post# 1185556 , Reply# 23   7/22/2023 at 17:47 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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I agree with Louis on the older Whirlpool belt drive machines. They have a unique sound thatís distinguishable/easily identifiable and is cool seeing everything in operation with the rear access panel removed. Crazy as this sounds, I have more experience with the belt drive machines than I do the direct drives, so far the experience has been great. Making repairs and adjustments can be a little cumbersome if you are trying to do it in a laundry room but if you can move it out to a driveway or a open garage, getting access to everything is a cinch. Nice thing is the neutral drain canít really fail on those machines unless the plunger for the spin is broken causing the tub to spin when agitating.

Itís been awhile since Iíve used my Whirlpool but I have to either find a replacement timer or find someone who can scan and 3D print the original cam assembly in the timer since it unfortunately separated on me earlier this January and the repair attempt mostly worked but doesnít do anything on the gentle cycle other than fill up, agitate, and drain. Could get away with not using the gentle cycle but usually like to have everything in working order before putting it back into service. Donít feel like taking it apart more than I have to and just want to get every done correctly the first time around.

Post# 1185560 , Reply# 24   7/22/2023 at 18:28 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Oh brother.

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If you're not purchasing someone else's machine, I fail to see how this is of any concern of yours.


Live and let live.


Post# 1185564 , Reply# 25   7/22/2023 at 19:10 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
Reply 21

Yes, I'm taking about combo52, I apologize for the confusion. I thought it would be more obvious that I was referring specifically to Laundress' reply #9, and combo52's reply in #106 of, and also his previous praise of the TR over the TC in a previous thread, and had missed the fact that another John had posted in this thread. I apologize specifically to John76. I have no reason to doubt his personal experience.

Who is making assumptions? I wouldn't have given the example from other threads if you hadn't assumed I was making assumptions without knowing the background of what I was talking about. The fact that I wasn't quoting the John in this thread should have been a clue. I didn't see the need in my previous reply to call out specific members.

What is rude is making, shall we say "questionable" statements, and then when called out on them running to other threads to make more questionable statements, and then when pressed further suggest that the person asking the questions isn't intelligent enough to understand if he gave the answer. I believe the other member is just basically stating his opinions and things he can't prove as fact. Sometimes I believe he misremembers things, or that what he writes is a typo, hyperbole, or whatever. But when someone misstates something, and then can't back it up or take back, and then continues to make such statements then yes, I consider him dishonest.

Another thing that is rude is suggesting that only certain people speaking about certain things should be allowed to post. Again, that's on another thread.

Yet another thing is accusing others of making assumptions, as if what they say isn't based on something.

I could be wrong, but one certain member I had in mind claims to have been a repair tech in Beltsville, which is in the Washington DC area. I believe DC is either the most or second most affluent area in the country. I'm not clear on who his customers are now or what his business is, but I assume (okay, maybe I did make at least one assumption :)) that at least many people who buy the Speed Queens in that area do have some money, and that they aren't farmers getting dirty.

I'm also making the assumption (oops another assumption) based on what I've seen and read that most people buying the TC5 are doing so because of the classic wash action, and they are doing it consciously and knowledgeably. I would be surprised if people opting for the TC5 over the TR series being pushed by SQ and their dealers then turn around and wash exclusively on the Eco cycle. I also assume that those who do and are happy with the results are office workers or such. I also have to wonder exactly how many people he meets that have a TC5 and volunteer what cycle they use. I would hope, if he's still working as a tech, that he hasn't had to repair that many no longer than they have been out. So given his past history, I am skeptical of everything he says.

Post# 1185568 , Reply# 26   7/22/2023 at 20:18 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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WindRivers, your member profile shows your sign-up date as April 2022 so you haven't been posting very long.† You may have been reading the board prior to that date but you're apparently not aware of the history.† Combo52, aka John Lefever, is an experienced service technician and appliance dealer in Beltsville MD area.† He and his brother Jeff_Adelphi (Jeff Lefever) are among the founding members of this group.† A large gathering was held at their location in August 2002.† Many early members were there.† I was there (also at the 2001 gathering in Minneapolis and 2005 in Omaha).

Perhaps the information at this link will be of interest to you.

Development of the Automatic Washer Club

Post# 1185575 , Reply# 27   7/22/2023 at 20:32 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Thanks Glenn. I'm really more interested in facts than an individual's history. He may be an excellent technician who had helped many with repairs, a founding member, etc., but I don't think that gives him the right to make up his own "facts" and treat other members with disrespect. Of course, if he's an owner of the board, or has pull with the owner, I guess he can do what he wants.

Post# 1185579 , Reply# 28   7/22/2023 at 21:01 by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis)        
Reply #26

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That link was fascinating. Makes me wish I'd discovered this board earlier. The early 2000's appeared to be a sort of high point for the vintage appliance hobby. Although I can't repair my own machines, reading and learning about them is very interesting.

Post# 1185581 , Reply# 29   7/22/2023 at 21:04 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply number 27 in a lot of others

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Hi Jeff , I stopped even bothering responding to your nonsense. When you say things like an induction motor is 90% efficient. It gave me my laugh of the day.

Why do you think manufactures would go to all the trouble of doing a three phase motor with a circuit board and everything if an induction motor is 90% efficient answer that please.

New machines use a fraction of the materials in energy to build even if they last a much shorter time theyíre still going to save a lot of energy if you donít like that want to keep your old machines more power to you.

I am still working full-time. I donít have time to answer nonsense questions all the time I will occasionally answer them if you make an intelligent question.

I also donít take people very seriously ifthey donít post anything about themselves their experience, their age where they live you just donít have any credibility.


Post# 1185590 , Reply# 30   7/22/2023 at 23:44 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Thanks for your reply John (combo52).

Manufacturers are going to circuit boards and three phase motors because they are variable speed without a transmission and cheaper to produce. Probably the biggest reason is the cost. Is that not correct? Yes, they may save a little electricity, but over 75%?

You claimed that the TR motor used 1/4 the energy of the motor in a TC, is that not correct? Are you saying the motor in the TC is less than 25% efficient, or the motor in the TR is well over 100% efficient? Or is one of us just simply not understanding physics? BTW, I don't believe that being an experienced repair tech automatically makes one a physicist, mechanical and electrical engineer, or that he isn't biased enough to only give part of the truth even if he does know the facts.

As someone who does like to repair and keep quality equipment, I will keep my machines running as long as I can, thank you. I guess we'll just have to disagree that junk that "lasts a much shorter time" and is made out of wonderful lightweight plastic and other inferior products, is going to save me energy in the long run. I assume that's what using "a fraction of the materials in energy to build" means. From experience, buying cheap lightweight products over and over again is at the least not going to save me money. We could have cheap energy if it wasn't for all the nonsense. There are other issues concerning obtaining and using natural resources, and having to replace major appliances much more often, other than energy itself, even assuming a large amount is recyclable. BTW, as much as you promote today's cheap products, I bet you're glad you have the Speed Queen you claimed to have bought 118 years ago, though I assume you meant 18 years ago.

I guess I'm somewhat paranoid about giving too much information over the internet that is visible to everyone. I think people should be judged rather on the veracity of what they say than who they are. As I said, being a repair tech for example doesn't make you an expert on energy, climate, manufacturing, or whatever you may think you are. I'm not a respecter of persons. It's your knowledge and honesty that gives you credibility, not your age, or whatever. Your experience also adds to it, but not when you think you can somehow use it to speak authoritatively outside your field of expertise, or spout nonsense as fact. It does say on my posts where I live since that supposedly has some bearing on my credibility somehow.

Post# 1185601 , Reply# 31   7/23/2023 at 03:52 by chetlaham (United States)        
To Address The Rudness

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I think Reply 29 is a perfect microcosm of what WindRivers is getting at.



"I stopped even bothering responding to your nonsense."


"It gave me my laugh of the day. "

"I don’t have time to answer nonsense questions all the time"


"...if you make an intelligent question. "

"I also don’t take people very seriously"


"...their age where they live you just don’t have any credibility."




When John makes such statements they are interpreted as being disparaging, demeaning, insulting and hurtful toward others. Such remarks coming from an experienced technician only makes the comments sound like they are coming out of arrogance.


Further withholding credibility based on age or location comes across as a form of discrimination. I in particular can see that being triggering to young members whom from an early age know more about washers than most adults, but are not taken seriously by those around them simply because they are seen as kids, young, on the spectrum, ect, ect.  And that would be ignoring the fact this community is comprised of many members who face discrimination on a daily basis ie not everyone can grasp LGBTQIA++, minority struggles, Neuro diversity, appliance passion, ect ect.




This forum has to be a safe place for everyone regardless of who they are, they're life experience, or their background. Putting individuals down is not ok. Nobody here deserves to be spoken down to.



The goal should be to discuss appliance and associated physics not people as a person or their character.



Post# 1185603 , Reply# 32   7/23/2023 at 04:41 by chetlaham (United States)        
Reply 29, Induction Motor

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"Why do you think manufactures would go to all the trouble of doing a three phase motor with a circuit board and everything if an induction motor is 90% efficient answer that please. "




Uh. Speed Queen's 3 phase motors are induction motors.


There is no 3 phase motor vs an induction motor. Both are classified as induction due to their squirrel cage rotor.


One just happens to be single phase capacitor start, the other 3 phase variable frequency driven.


If you're going to state facts, get your terminology right.   



Post# 1185605 , Reply# 33   7/23/2023 at 05:19 by chetlaham (United States)        
Kenmore Elite

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@Foraloysius: These are very special washers in that they have every feature one could ever ask for.



Speed, reliability, durability, clothing care, cleaning, performance, usability, ease of service, ect. 



20+ year life expectancy, king size capacity, auto soak and auto prewash cycles, a real cool down, auto temperature control in both the wash and rinse, 3 automatic dispensers, timed bleach, a real permanent press cool down, extra rinse, immaculate thorough wash action, real handwash and fine delicate speeds, real heavy duty cycle, auto second rinse, arthritis friendly knobs, dual action agitator, one of the best suspension systems, multi padding quiet pack, 30 minute cycles, one of the fastest fills, thorough rinsing, best cleaning ever, great extraction... I'm leaving a lot out.


No other washer comes close in many regards, all the positives in every make, model and brand rolled into one Kenmore Elite.




Post# 1185626 , Reply# 34   7/23/2023 at 09:26 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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20+ year life expectancy, king size capacity, auto soak and auto prewash cycles, a real cool down, auto temperature control in both the wash and rinse, 3 automatic dispensers, timed bleach, a real permanent press cool down, extra rinse, immaculate thorough wash action, real handwash and fine delicate speeds, real heavy duty cycle, auto second rinse, arthritis friendly knobs, dual action agitator, one of the best suspension systems, multi padding quiet pack, 30 minute cycles, one of the fastest fills, thorough rinsing, best cleaning ever, great extraction... I'm leaving a lot out.

No other washer comes close in many regards, all the positives in every make, model and brand rolled into one Kenmore Elite.
And the majority of consumers who own(ed) one ended up running the Normal/Ultra Clean cycle (maybe with extra rinse) on maximum speed and non-ATC cold temperature at half-ish the usable capacity?† ;-)

Post# 1185637 , Reply# 35   7/23/2023 at 11:05 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Sometime- but got the cleanest clothes in the world, in 30 minutes, at low sound levels, for 20 years with few lemons. Just can't beat it.


Most around here use warm wash, so cold was rarely in the equation.


I'm just glad I was able to see this piece of history when it was on the Sears sales floor in the mid 2000s when I could moderately appreciate what I was experiencing. Today that appreciation has only grown.   

Post# 1185651 , Reply# 36   7/23/2023 at 14:53 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
TR vs. tc series

I prefer the tc series. I don't see the tr series removing tough ground-in dirt from jeans like the tc can with its powerful motor. We are talking about when both are on heavy duty.

Post# 1185655 , Reply# 37   7/23/2023 at 15:20 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

I don't see the tr series removing tough ground-in dirt from jeans like the tc can with its powerful motor.
The TR motor is rated at 1 HP per the stated product specifications. The TC motor is rated half HP.

Perhaps you should try washing jeans with ground-in dirt in a TR model on the appropriate Heavy Duty cycle to determine whether your prediction is correct.

Post# 1185663 , Reply# 38   7/23/2023 at 16:32 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
I want to try a TR out now

I am going to buy the 1st 2nd hand TR I find and try it out :)

Post# 1185675 , Reply# 39   7/23/2023 at 17:45 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
wash action

Have you seen the wash action on both on the same "heavy duty" cycle? It looks anemic on the tr compared to the tc. I'm just saying. I'm sure Chetlaham the OP knows what I'm talking about. I've seen youtube videos of both machines.

Post# 1185676 , Reply# 40   7/23/2023 at 17:54 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Jerome, I know exactly what you're talking about. History is proof of that. Very few agi tub washers have been made through out time, and those that were, did not remain on the market very long. In fact there are videos of appliance techs openly stating agi tub washers are poor performers. Even John (Combo 52) has stated Speed Queen will sell fewer toploads due to the agi tub design. Lorain Furniture and Appliances also said it, only to have Speed Queen go after his Youtube channel. The defensive nature of Speed Queen, Speed Queen deleting negative reviews, followed by the release of the TC, followed by increased cycle times on the newest TR- shows that even Speed Queen themselves know the TR series is mediocre on working clothes. 


Everyone knows. 



Not to say those with lightly soiled clothes are getting great results, but for more hands on folks that doesn't seem to be the case.

Post# 1185677 , Reply# 41   7/23/2023 at 18:53 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
I think we should put the subject of the TR machines to rest, we all know that they donít wash all the great, consume more water than their predecessors, and are more expensive as well. I have nothing against people wanting to create threads and conversations along with going over things that may have been overlooked a few years ago, I just seem to notice that when we keep on bringing up and talking about the same thing over and over and yes Iíll admit Iíve done it a few times as well over the years but that being said, it just seems to create arguments with one another and it just seems to keep on going forever. I think if we start focusing more on the present and future, time will march forward but if we keep on dwelling on the same thing over and over, tomorrow and change simply wonít happen.

Post# 1185739 , Reply# 42   7/24/2023 at 09:45 by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        
Maybe the lawyers have something to do with the TR...

neptunebob's profile picture
Could it be possible that SQ does not discontinue the TR because it would be admitting they made a mistake? And admitting a mistake could make them vulnerable to lawsuits? If they admit it, SQ could be liable for replacing thousands of TR machines if there is a class action lawsuit (and there probably is one already). I wonder how many TC models they sell in proportion to TR models, if there are too many, SQ should never admit it.

If there were some way to separate the agitator and the tub during washing and keep the tub stationary they could probably use the new motor system and still have good washing results. If I ran SQ I might quietly do that and also have a kit to convert the ones machines out there to the new system.

Post# 1185741 , Reply# 43   7/24/2023 at 09:58 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

If there were some way to separate the agitator and the tub during washing and keep the tub stationary they could probably use the new motor system and still have good washing results.
That would involve more complexity for a mode-shifter or similar mechanics and circuitry to control it.† (No engineer in his right mind would ever again do something simple and clever like F&P's floating basket, LOL).

Post# 1185747 , Reply# 44   7/24/2023 at 11:03 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
Reply #42 Neptunebob

Not wanting to admit a mistake could be plausible. Maybe not just lawyers, but engineers, sales promoters, and such who would have a hard time admitting they squandered so much in development. No telling how much money, time, and other resources were involved. Maybe some are afraid of having to look for a new job.

The only problem I have with the theory; if lawyers think there's a possibility that they would end up having to replace the machines of dissatisfied customers, then it seems they would at least tell then to stop promoting the machines over the TC, and thus keep expanding the number of machines they could eventually have to refund or replace, digging themselves into a deeper hole. It seems as if they would expand the TC line to have a TC3, TC5, and TC7, like the TR series, some of like is already available overseas, and quietly have their dealers promote them over the TR instead of the other way around. I don't know if there's other legal or regulatory issues that would keep them from doing that.

I don't think there would be any liability issue at all if dealers just stated the facts and tell them that, if a quiet dependable machine is what you're looking for, and you like the job the top load impeller model you're replacing does, then you'll love the TR.

Post# 1185755 , Reply# 45   7/24/2023 at 14:07 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

mark_wpduet's profile picture
The video above... the farmer expressing his total dissatisfaction with his SQ washer.... Did SQ really tell him that? That this washer was designed for people who work in an office that don't get really dirty? If that's what they told him WOW!!

I mean, even if my clothes didn't get really dirty... I wouldn't want a washer that could at the very best could clean slightly dirty clothes..

I haven't really kept up with this SAGA over the years. So I have no clue. I just remember when these were first introduced on the forum 99% of the people on here seemed to be in utter shock at how horrible it washed and I was with looked like it could only clean if it were like a 1/2 load... and anything thick like jeans or coats or something like that... they would remain at the top the ENTIRE time.

Post# 1185768 , Reply# 46   7/24/2023 at 19:02 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Speed Queen Laundry Lawsuit

I have a feeling that Speed Queen Laundry is headed for a lawsuit just like Maytag did. They're gonna be forced to making the classic machines and drop the perfect wash series. Look at the thousands of complaints.

Post# 1185807 , Reply# 47   7/25/2023 at 06:56 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
stupid wash action

This wash action is just so stupid. I believe university students came up with this pathetic agitation. Nothing has changed. There's no turnover whatsoever. GEEZ!


Post# 1185814 , Reply# 48   7/25/2023 at 09:53 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Jerome, there absolutely is turnover.† Reverse turnover.† Run the video at 2x playback speed to see it.† I watched a TR7 video yesterday, fellow ran a load of jeans with a white shirt, there is turnover.

Post# 1185830 , Reply# 49   7/25/2023 at 14:05 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

mark_wpduet's profile picture
There IS turnover. I watched it at 2x speed... but the turnover is SOOO slow... It seems better but I still don't like it..I would much rather have the other model

Post# 1185838 , Reply# 50   7/25/2023 at 16:53 by John76 (USA)        

Interesting to see the number of comments suggesting the person use the Auto-Fill function. I have a theory the TR washers performs better when you do so.

Post# 1185840 , Reply# 51   7/25/2023 at 17:35 by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis)        
Reply #57

ryner1988's profile picture
John, I agree with you re the auto fill and I think this can apply to most washers that have an auto-fill function. I believe that when left to our own devices we tend to over-estimate how much water we need to effectively clean a load of laundry. It's why I only use the highest water level on my direct drive Whirlpool with a completely full load. Anything below that, I tend to go down a water level or two unless I'm doing one large item like a blanket. When I had a Whirlpool VMW machine, I always used the auto-fill function and it performed very well. I think the other trick is to avoid the normal cycle with large loads on most modern day machines. In my experience that only works on small to medium loads of lightly soiled laundry. The heavy duty cycle with auto fill enabled will provide very effective results in most cases and on most machines. Many washers have a soil button where you can decrease the agitation time if you don't like the amount the default heavy cycle gives.

Post# 1185857 , Reply# 52   7/25/2023 at 21:57 by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        
Reply 33 / Kenmore Elite

blockeight88's profile picture
I donít have anything to contribute in regards to the speed queen, other than I prefer the TC5 for obvious reasons. But I just wanted to say the Kenmore elite you describe is exactly the one I have. I agree with you 110% and getting this machine actually made me sell my speed queen TC5/DC5 set.

Post# 1185900 , Reply# 53   7/26/2023 at 12:24 by chetlaham (United States)        
Kenmore Elite vs Speed Queen TC

chetlaham's profile picture

Honestly, if I was to choose between a new in box 2002 Kenmore Elite and my current Speed Queen I might actually trade it for the Kenmore. Only thing I would do it is remove the neutral drain pack and install a commercial duty clutch. 



Out of all the washers ever produced the Kenmore and Kenmore Elite lineup ranks #1 in many categories even outdoing the Speed Queen Classic series IMO.


About the only category the Speed Queen Classic series ranks above the Kenmore is vibration is balancing. And durability.


The rest is up for debate, even longevity is a maybe, in that DDs lasting 20+ years without repair is a commonality.

Post# 1186023 , Reply# 54   7/28/2023 at 05:47 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
university product

I have a feeling that the tr line came from a university project, seeing how most people don't care about laundry, including the average college student. Not even the general public. They don't care what this washer does, so I would see why the tr series came out.
Does Speed Queen think we're stupid?

Post# 1186037 , Reply# 55   7/28/2023 at 09:15 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

As the saying goes: "its not what they think, its that the don't think"


Speed Queen deeply misunderstands their customer base . Whirlpool and GE may have successfully tricked most customers into buying mediocre products because the average consumer knows little about laundry where as the average Speed Queen customer is self educated specifically seeking a non BS laundry machine. All they had was trust, hence why people went along with the TR, now that its gone Speed Queen has to basically win people back.

Post# 1186055 , Reply# 56   7/28/2023 at 12:14 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
university students engineering

I have a feeling that GE and Whirlpool have university students who don't care about laundry so they have the same attitude "we don't want to think about it". In other words, they just stuff everything into a single giant unsorted load when they see the tub is giant. Speed Queen must be headed down that same miserable path. Let's be real. I have a feeling that LG and Samsung and others feel the same way.

Post# 1186061 , Reply# 57   7/28/2023 at 13:38 by chetlaham (United States)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.

Post# 1186078 , Reply# 58   7/28/2023 at 17:14 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Companies give what the majority of consumers want/look for. Big all in one loads are dominant, sadly.

Post# 1186112 , Reply# 59   7/28/2023 at 22:01 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
all in 1 loads

What's even more sad is that most don't even read the instructions. As a sidenote, I have a feeling that the GE ultra fresh is just a marketing ploy for consumers to avoid cleaning their washer. Then the next thing you know, they will continue to sue. Back to the subject... Most don't care. Do you ever notice the tub packed so full that nothing moves? They pile everything into the machine just because it's huge.
What else did I miss?

Post# 1186130 , Reply# 60   7/29/2023 at 00:34 by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
It took a while for me to get my partner to stop stuffing full the washer a few years ago. He'd have it so full there was hardly any space left for any water and boy when it went into the dryer did it stink our house up some good, like a dirty locker room stink . To be honest I hadn't really been paying attention to what he was doing and it was the stink that got me up out of the chair to see where it was emanating from

Things are much better now but I do occaionally go check

Post# 1186159 , Reply# 61   7/29/2023 at 11:14 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
reason for giant tubs

And this is the reason why today's machines have such big tubs in my opinion. Most people just want to stuff everything in without sorting anything.

Post# 1186198 , Reply# 62   7/29/2023 at 20:03 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Capacity sells.


I've been in stores where people have chosen DDs over DC because the DD tub held more.

Post# 1186247 , Reply# 63   7/30/2023 at 07:16 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
encouragement of stuffing

In my opinion, this is encouragement for just plain stuffing everything into a single load. How will you get clean clothes this way?

Post# 1186255 , Reply# 64   7/30/2023 at 10:52 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

People can and do stuff smaller tubs. Nothing will stop a person from stuffing a tub of any size.

Post# 1186257 , Reply# 65   7/30/2023 at 11:22 by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        
Then it really makes me wonder if people actually can buy

A machine that they can stuff and itís designed to be stuffed so it can be washed properly? I mean thatís an idea but Iím not exactly sure if that will alleviate the thing of stuffing or make it worse

Post# 1186328 , Reply# 66   7/30/2023 at 20:02 by Waterdrama (Royal Oak, Michigan)        
My New TR7......and I don't mean Triumph!!!

I just bought a TR7 to replace a 2008 Maytag Performa. I love the auto-fill feature, as well as the effective spin-dry. I wasn't impressed with many of the top-loaders that have impellers or useless agitators. I know we are using less water per load and the clothes aren't spending as much time in the dryer. Everything has come out clean and there is much less lint on the dryer screen. Two large, dirty rugs washed out beautifully. The cycles are not as fast, and the agitation is not as aggressive as the Classic-Clean series, but for our laundry needs, it fits perfectly. I do hear a lot of water sloshing around in that tub......If only I could watch it.

Post# 1186351 , Reply# 67   7/30/2023 at 22:01 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
good to hear someone is getting good results

That mid-1970s era British car was much-maligned as well :)

Post# 1186663 , Reply# 68   8/3/2023 at 00:41 by John76 (USA)        

You can certainly blame the US federal government regulators for the current state weíre in with our washing machines. I think it will soon get worse with the newest green energy legislation.

Glad I have my TR5 as it washes everything Iíve thrown at it just fine. It also fits in the same space as my old Maytag transmission washer, itís much quieter, has auto-fill and short cycle times and no lid lock until agitation begins. Iím pretty sure it will see me out.

Post# 1186684 , Reply# 69   8/3/2023 at 07:08 by John76 (USA)        

You can see why the Speed Queen was probably the only top load washing machine that would fit into this room.

  View Full Size
Post# 1186704 , Reply# 70   8/3/2023 at 12:44 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

panasonicvac's profile picture
I just had a service technician come fix our LG washer today. We were talking about the TR series and I didn't know this but he actually said that Speed Queen got fined for marketing the machines when they first came out as also being used for commercial applicants.

Post# 1186767 , Reply# 71   8/3/2023 at 21:11 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply number 70, Speed Queen got fined?

combo52's profile picture
Hi Alex, I really doubt that Speed Queen got fined for anything who would have find them and on what basis?

You should see if you can find out some details about that. I doubt thereís any truth in that at all.


Post# 1186846 , Reply# 72   8/4/2023 at 20:16 by Qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
Not sure why Speed Queen doesn't program 180 degree agitation on the TR series that matches the TC. Problem solved and no transmission to fail.

Post# 1186853 , Reply# 73   8/4/2023 at 21:10 by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis)        
Reply #72

ryner1988's profile picture
Dan, I totally agree with you and have wondered about this often. Surely the lack of a transmission doesn't mean SQ can't unbolt the agitator from the tub, create a true dual-action system, and have a 360-degree stroke like that found on the agitator VMW machines. I honestly liked the wash action on my VMW Whirlpool but the noise was horrible and it wasn't reliable. I'd actually buy one of the TR machines if it had that wash action. That as well as being transmissionless and virtually silent would make it a great machine for many people including myself. SQ definitely missed an opportunity there.

Post# 1187021 , Reply# 74   8/7/2023 at 00:46 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
Sounds like a crazy idea, but I wish theyíd add a selector switch or a selectable program to choose the degree of agitation suited for the load you are washing. Shorter and faster strokes of agitation for aggressive wash action or long and slow agitation strokes for lightly soiled items or delicates. Definitely would add flexibility to the machine since you would literally be able to literally select the degree of the agitation arc.

Post# 1187030 , Reply# 75   8/7/2023 at 06:52 by John76 (USA)        

The TR series does have a different wash action for each cycle, heavy duty being the most aggressive.

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