Thread Number: 9521
The beta vs vhs battle of the washers 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 176472   12/18/2006 at 15:05 (6,331 days old) by ecoclean ()        

Hi Everybody!

My name is Mark Sweeney and I'm pretty much the new kid on the block since the unexpected discovery that I'm not the only one to appreciate the wonderful world of washers, and all things laundry too!

I never realised there was such a wealth of history on the subject out there, and this has only made matters worse as there seems to be so much more to find out! Forgive me if I ask the most basic of questions here but...why are the vast majority of washers in the US of the top load variety?!! In the last two weeks I've witnessed everything from high speed top loaders to ozone bulbs and jumping jack agitators, but I cant seem to follow through on why I was never aware that the likes of a front loading Westinghouse or Bendix ever existed in the first place?! Its almost as though their very presence was wiped from the collective public eye sometime in the late 60's! Also, why did the likes of the unimatic spin speed never become the standard for the industry? The collective energy savings in the interim years drying times would have been immense!

Mark




Post# 176499 , Reply# 1   12/18/2006 at 18:16 (6,331 days old) by pturo (Syracuse, New York)        

I will take a stab at answering your question. Early front loader washers were deemed troublesome for the average home. The older ones had to be bolted to the floor, and there was a stigma that they leaked and would cause damage to one's home and subfloors, etc. In the mid 20th century, resources in the US such as water and natural gas were cheap and plentiful and most housewives were used to the vertical axis old wringer washers that they grew up with. The evolution of that meathod into an automatic spin dry replacing the wringer was progressive, but not earth-shatteringly different for most people in practice and in the psychology of how clothes should be cleaned. If the only way a washer could be automatic was to be a front loader, many people would have kept the wringer washer in business a lot longer. This was 50's America, bigger, better, suburban sprawl, cheap gasoline, land shark cars, clean, plentiful water, new frontiers and expansive mentality. People were shedding the urban scarcity mentality of thier childhoods, the depression, or thier European parents. Cramped, small european cars were non existent, and cramped small old foriegn fashioned washing machines were probably viewed as foriegn and suspicious. Regarding the spin speed being reduced from that great 1000 rpms, I suspect that "wash and wear" and synthetic fibers has a lot to do with that because of the wrinkle effect and compression that high speed was percived to have on fabrics. Not many washers,only the top of the line, were 2 speed back then, so in order to launder all types of garments, I believe the spin speed was reduced. Either that, or they wanted to sell more automatic dryers! America in the 50's and 60's was the opposite of "Europe", and we celebrated that difference.

Post# 176601 , Reply# 2   12/19/2006 at 07:28 (6,331 days old) by mrx ()        

Don't forget that European spin speeds have only been reaching dizzying heights since the 80s.

Most older european machines max out at 800 rpm or less.

Pushing the spin speed up has been driven less by environemental concerns than it has been by marketing. I sold appliances in Ireland one summer quite a few years ago now and people do select their washers on the speed of the spin. It's one distinguishing characteristic.

I mean we're now seeing machines reaching 2000RPM!?!

Machines also have access to better technology to allow them to balance correctly. It was much more difficult to achieve in the pre-electronic days. Also variable speed drive motors are much cheaper now than they were and materials for things like belts etc have drastically improved.

Taking a machine up to 2000rpm with 1950s components would have been quite tricky.

Lets not forget too that European 1970s machines used plenty of water. Most filled to half-way up the glass and did plenty of sloshing around.

In general in Europe energy has been more expensive and a lot of places have had water metering for a long time to conserve resources. It's driven modern washing machine design.
Coupled with environmental legislation that requires certain things such as a very obvious disclosure of energy consumption, wash performance, spin performance etc on labeling applied to the front of every appliance.
Manufacturers love to score A,A,A.

It's not all down to economics though. Quite a lot of it is down to environmental focus in Europe / attitudes generally.

I think what you're seeing now is Americans becoming more concerned about the environment and there's suddenly a similar attitude towards things like energy consumption on either side of the atlantic.
Hence the dawn of the modern front loader.

Interestingly, machines in Europe are getting much bigger (capacity wise) quite a lot of models appearing that take 8kg (17.6lbs) of laundry in a standard cabinet euro size machine.

Post# 176610 , Reply# 3   12/19/2006 at 08:21 (6,330 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
Another reason that front loading washers lost their popularity is the fact that Proctor and Gamble's approach to selling the new product out called "Tide"which was stronger and the new item now available called detergent instead of soap.Their advertising for Tide was that it made "oceans of suds"which sort of brainwashed people to believe that the more suds you see,the cleaner your clothes get.It also meant that if you had a front loader and used it according to the directions on the package,your machine would (being one that used much less water than the top loading wringers or automatics.)Become so full of suds that anywhere there was an opening to releave presure from the interor tub,those suds would come out in buckets.This became a major problem and started a bad seed regarding front loaders and their problem with high sudsing.
Since then,washer manufacturers have introduced new models that have"fuzzy logic".This sences the excessive suds and automaticaly drains the water out and refills the machine untill the suds are at the correct level.Doing that keeps the washer from "throwing up"the exvess suds and keeps the machine's motor and pump from breaking down from excessive strain.This as well as conciderable increase in load capacity has increased the desire for the product and most major appliance companies now have their own version of these wonderfull machines!!

Post# 176631 , Reply# 4   12/19/2006 at 09:58 (6,330 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        
Sudswashed

 My mom fell under that "more suds is better" brainwashing. I have observed in my former Frigemore front loader, now my Oasis and old belt drive Kenmore that oceans of suds only introduce air pockets causing the clothes to float at the top and not get scrubbed by the fins/washplate/agitator.

The new Tide is surprising anemic as far as suds but it does clean well. The water is very slippery upon using the correct dosage.

But as all good app'villers know, there's nothing like a good ol' fashioned phosphate suds cake :-D

Post# 176744 , Reply# 5   12/19/2006 at 17:57 (6,330 days old) by mrx ()        

Perhaps the new Tide HE is Ariel ?

Post# 177123 , Reply# 6   12/21/2006 at 10:00 (6,328 days old) by lederstiefel1 ()        
history of washers here and there

 Yes, I do fully agree to mrx what he tells from the old washers! They had to be bolted to the floor and could even ruin these, as in old houses floors were made by woodden beams and parquet and not entirely of concrete like nowadays and so were banned to the basement laundry. That fixation was necessary because these machines had no counterbalance system and no distribution system and spun with only 300 rpm. Also the detergents had no suds-reducing agents in, as they were made from soap and soap must produce suds otherwise dosage is too low and it will not wash effectively and can produce bad smelling residues - so, people had that in mind!
On top of all, people used to wear their clothes much longer (up to one week) and so were much more dirty and had to be boiled and pre-washed and soaked to become clean again. That is the reason for the amount of water the machines used.
Modern detergents do not need that any longer, although today sometimes the amount is so small that the washing is not evenly washed nor rinsed anymore - consequence: allergies!
The appearance of synthetic fibres to help women to reduce the amount of ironing was maybe the reason for a reduction of spin-speeds but maybe the energy concerns talked to the producers of dryers (and washers) so they could sell more electricity when dryers came into fashion. Before, every housewife complained about the bad water extraction of wringers and the dripping washing on the line - especially when they had to dry them inside the house in winter-times! That was also the time when seperate spin-dryers (1400rpm or 2800rpm, in the UK even 3100rpm) became very popular!
Now, with the appearance of dryers, they didn't realise the amount of electricity and time the dryers consumed. What counted was that they had no problem of dripping washing anymore - no matter what the machine did to the environment as electricity is/was soooo cheap in the States compared with that in Europe!
Nowadays all that has changed a lot.
People are fed up with washers that take only 4-5 kg washing in one load here in Europe and many have seen the huge washers in the US on vaccations, also everybody wants to have an even faster spinning in their washers to save electricity costs. It is like with vaccuum cleaners - the more wattage they use the better they sell - even if it is absolute nonsense and no good for our planet!
But all that does not explain why TL were so much popular until today in the states and why FL never did come up to them.
In Europe to the beginning there were also only wringer-washers and single-tubs and twin-tubs but immediately when automatics became popular and affordable people switched to FL and within 5-6 years laundries in the basement died off... I remember that time very well!
Nowadays there are no more agitator machines available only tumblers!
Cheers Ralf

Post# 177520 , Reply# 7   12/23/2006 at 04:25 (6,327 days old) by ecoclean ()        

Thank you all for taking the time to reply with such knowledgeable and profound observations! You have certainly given me lots to ponder over!

Have a great christmas wherever you are, and every best wish for the new year too.

Mark.


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