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Thread Number: 9564
Mega Miele? |
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Post# 177064 12/21/2006 at 01:54 (6,328 days old) by sudsmaster  (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 177066 , Reply# 1 12/21/2006 at 02:20 (6,328 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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ThatHomeSite's laundry forum had some information reagarding the upcoming Miele washer and dryer set. Have posted a bit of information in various posts here myself as well. No one knows the MSRP as of yet, though there are some pundits making guesses over on THS based upon Miele machines sold elsewhere. Voltage is 120v/60hz. Highest wash temp will be 170F, though not sure if Miele will require a 15amp or 20amp circut. Outer tub will be fiberglass instead of stainless steel, and IIRC Miele has broken down and this new washer will have a dispenser for LCB. When speaking with Miele-USA tech-support about my current washer, queried about the upcoming units, and the tech said he had seen a model and while they are huge for a Miele, not as huge as say a Duet. As for cycles,if the newest Miele models sold elsewhere are any indication, besides the usual programs, there may be cycles for duvets/pillows, shirts, and rinse/spin will make a return after being taken away with Miele last new washer series. With 2007 only a few weeks away, you may wish to telephone Miele USA directly and see if they have any further information/brochures available. L. | ||
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Post# 177160 , Reply# 2 12/21/2006 at 14:15 (6,327 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Thanks, Cimbi. I've checked the Miele website and there is no hint of a new model. I'm wondering also if the MM will have a right hinged door like other Miele's, or if it will succomb to the US practice of left hinging. If it's left hinged, then I will probably look elsewhere for a new washer. Too bad about the 120 volt thing, also. This was a chance for Miele to really make a difference in high end washers. Instead I don't see how they expect to compete with an already crowded field. | ||
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Post# 177164 , Reply# 3 12/21/2006 at 14:46 (6,327 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Instead I don't see how they expect to compete with an already crowded field. I think in an "emerging" front-load market in this country, now is the time for mannies to push all things, practical to ridiculous, and try to grab market share. It was believed that front-loaders would never catch-on here. With big capacities, big port-holes and plaforms for ease-of -loading, this appears to be a non-issue. Things change. | ||
| Post# 177232 , Reply# 4 12/21/2006 at 19:29 (6,327 days old) by bingwsguy (Binghamton NY) | ||
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I went to Miele's website and clicked on Laundry Products, then Professional Laundry for the Home and the product list is quite extensive...capacities reaching 70lbs. Are we talking about the same new machines? | ||
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Post# 177240 , Reply# 5 12/21/2006 at 20:14 (6,327 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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No, They are not the 70lb washers,
But similar to the smallest (7kg) line offered for professional use. Posted the following link several weeks ago, it is from Appliancemagazine.com, and speaks of the new Miele units. CLICK HERE TO GO TO launderess's LINK | ||
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Post# 177341 , Reply# 6 12/22/2006 at 00:16 (6,327 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Well, Cimberlie, from that link, it's apparent that the Mega Miele will not be so big after all. The article states that the machine will be similar to the company's existing 60 cm wide line, and that means a 24" wide machine. Not much in the way of increased capacity is possible without going to 27". And yes, the new machines will be 110 volt in an attempt to cater to perceived American preferences. What a shame. On a brighter note, I was impressed with the HE2T I saw at Sears - no, Kmart - tonight. It's got a pure horizontal drum, decent capacity (3.6 IEC), and a clear porthole. Even more interesting, the door is completely symetrical in both X and Y axes. This means it *could* be possible to simply flip the door to reverse it. The only problem I saw is that a new hinge bracket might need to be designed, as the cabinet has a slight recess to accomodate the existing hinge. And, of course, the sheet metal would have to be cut in order to move the hinge to one side and the latch mechanism to the other. Nothing I couldn't manage - with an HE2T picked up for a song at a Sears outlet, that is ;-). | ||
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Post# 177343 , Reply# 7 12/22/2006 at 00:26 (6,327 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Sudsman: Miele had no end of trouble selling their washers with only a 220v connection. Despite what many over on THS state, not every home has or can have a 220v line installed. This includes some of the most expensive real estate in Manhattan, where buildings from the 1920's to 1950's, those highly sought after "pre-War" buildings simply do not have enough power coming into the apartments, and sometimes the building to make a Miele possible. Our Miele dealer told us he will have a sale up until they hear about the 220v power and or get an estimate for installing the required power. Spending $2000 or more for a W&D set is one thing, but adding another $3000 or more for a NYC electrican to install/upgrade the electrical wiring is just more than many are willing to pay. With so many other front loaders on the American market,including the Bosch uber front loader, all running on 220v power; Miele decided to chuck lofty snob appeal and go for expanding their market share. Early Miele washing machines sold in the United States, could on some models run on 120v power. My W770 does, as did some W1918's. Then as now, Miele was going for market share, and knew most American homes did not have 220v power. Besides, today with few if anyone doing boil washes anymore, well besides Americans who just have discovered high temp washing and also share a maina for germs, (joking), a high wash temp of 140F or 170F is fine, and that can be done on 120V/60hz power. Faster if the circut is a 20amp instead of a 15amp. L. | ||
| Post# 177381 , Reply# 8 12/22/2006 at 09:35 (6,326 days old) by mrx () | ||
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You could have both options There's no reason why the machines couldn't be set up like US dryers. i.e. use 110V for the motor + electronics and then have an option of 220V or 110V heat. If you've 110V only, the machine would just lock out some of the temptrature options. | ||
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Post# 177404 , Reply# 10 12/22/2006 at 13:37 (6,326 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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........or like a 60's US dryer move the bloomin' hot lead over to the neutral and VOILA your 220v heater now works on 120v. [In those days there were few dedicated 30a 220v dryer lines or even homes (in the US) that had the voltage or ampacity needed]. You may need a resisor here and there to get the wattage and/or amperage "right" , but those curves are all very easily navigated, with a little forethought on the part of the mannies. | ||
| Post# 177411 , Reply# 11 12/22/2006 at 14:22 (6,326 days old) by sudsman () | ||
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Launderess That Wasn't me,, | ||
| Post# 177501 , Reply# 14 12/23/2006 at 00:09 (6,326 days old) by westytoploader () | ||
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Now this sure is interesting... CLICK HERE TO GO TO westytoploader's LINK on Austin Craigslist | ||
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Post# 177507 , Reply# 15 12/23/2006 at 00:34 (6,326 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Very Interesting!
Awhile back posted a link to Miele's 2007 brochure for the UK. Correct me if am wrong, but the units featured in Westy's link look allot like the W4000 T9000 range. Someone ought to write to this seller and get the low down. Or better yet pay him a nice litle visit, digital camera in tow of course. *LOL* L. CLICK HERE TO GO TO launderess's LINK | ||
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Post# 177512 , Reply# 16 12/23/2006 at 01:28 (6,326 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Interesting, indeed...
Hmmm. Looks like the washer is on the right in that display. So I'm assuming/hoping that means a right-hinged door. I would have to say, though, that sure doesn't look like a $2000 washer. Not enough bling, lol. Regarding ease of making a dual voltage washer. American 220 volt circuits are a bit strange compared to European 220 volt. The American 220 has two hot leads, each one is 110 volts, 180 degrees out of phase with each other. Between them is 220. But you'd need not only a different plug but probably a whole new power cord to switch a washer from 220 to 110 and back again. Not impossible, just another complication to confuse salesmen (and we all know how confused they mostly are already). In other words, software alone just isn't going to do it. Plus the 220 plugs tend to be rather massive and clunky when compared to 110 plugs. Additionally, the current Miele washer is supposed to be hooked up to a 15 amp 220 volt circuit. Most US dryer outlets, if I'm not mistaken, are 30 amp 220 volt. Not that the circuit couldn't handle it, but there would be more protection against washer shorts if the circuit amps more closely matched the washer amps. | ||
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Post# 177645 , Reply# 19 12/23/2006 at 17:40 (6,325 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 178098 , Reply# 20 12/25/2006 at 13:33 (6,323 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Tolivac, I'm sure you know this, but current Miele washers are built to run off USA spec 220v 15A circuits. It's the new one that they are dumbing down to run on 110 volt 15 amp circuits, probably to garner a larger market share. As far as I'm concerned and can discern at this time, the only thing the new Miele has going for it, above the competition, is the right hinged door (hopefully), and the Miele name. Gone is the outer stainless tub and the high powered internal water heater. Perhaps Miele has added some special wash programs, but I suspect that's been dumbed down for wider appeal as well. As far as "Mega" goes, it's probably not much more the 2 cu ft, as you can't fit much more than that in a 24 inch cabinet. If it's a 27 inch model, then maybe the tub is competitive with current top end 110 volt offerings in the USA. But like I said before, it's a very crowded field, and I fear that Miele will be disappointed in sales. | ||
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Post# 178252 , Reply# 21 12/26/2006 at 14:34 (6,322 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Link From Texas Craigslist is the Real McCoy
Follow the link to more information regarding the new Miele washer/dryer as shown above. CLICK HERE TO GO TO launderess's LINK | ||
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Post# 178253 , Reply# 22 12/26/2006 at 14:35 (6,322 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Oh Yes, | ||
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Post# 178362 , Reply# 23 12/26/2006 at 20:04 (6,322 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Launderess, Thanks for that link! If you click on "more images" it again shows the washer to the right of the dryer, so hopefully it will be a right hinged door. The capacity is a bit amazing: 4 cu ft. No doubt an IEC rating, but still cavernous. And the units are listed as 27 inches wide (yay), 40" high, and 30" deep. These might just fit in my closet, although the depth might be an issue. Plus a honeycomb drum. How cool is that? | ||
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Post# 178397 , Reply# 24 12/26/2006 at 21:45 (6,322 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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~[In those days there were few dedicated 30a 220v dryer lines or even homes (in the US) that had the voltage or ampacity needed]. I stand corrected I should have said............In those days there were few dedicated 30a 220v dryer lines or even residences (in MY LITTLE PART OF THE US) that had the voltage or ampacity needed]. a 30a 220v dryer circuit is pushing one's luck on a 40a or 50a capacity service, IMHO To this day my mother's house in NYC that was built in 1955 (Note: this is NOT an old house here) Has 50 amp 110/220v service per apt. It is a 2-family house. The legal minimum, IIRC is/was not long ago, for a NYC apt where the cooking is gas and the landlord supplies (fossil-fueled) heat and hot water 40a 110/220v (i.e. 40a per hot leg). ....as a mater of fact I saw just last week an apartment building in the mid 20's (location) in Manhattan that has 30a 110v main service per apartment with two 15a circuits. Period full-stop. As far as I am concerned the BARE minimum in a NYC apt with a gas cooker is 4 circuits: 20a Washer & gas dryer 20a DW & REF 20a kitchen- toaster or m-wave or broiler, etc. 15a general lighting, small window air-conditioner not to exceed 750w (circa 10,500 BTU/h) ....and LOTS of experience managing the load so as not to exceed what the mains can carry. It is an art and a science, believe you me! | ||
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Post# 178443 , Reply# 26 12/27/2006 at 01:24 (6,322 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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The wiring in this house is a bit screwy. There is a 50 amp 220 volt circuit that used to supply one electric cooktop and a full electric stove/oven (four burner). I replaced the electric cooktop with a gas cooktop. I took one leg of the 220 volt cooktop circuit and ran it to a separate 15 amp breaker box (Square D), creating a 110 volt 15 amp circuit with one outlet for the electric igniter. I am planning on changing the remaining electric stove over to gas, also, and will probably split that circuit out to two 110 volt 20 amp circuits to supply more power in that area (it's the patio kitchen). The dryer circuit uses a 30 amp three prong 220 volt outlet; the breaker is rated at 40 amps. Go figure. Togs, speaking of apartment wiring - my mom's old apartment building was rewired at some point. They took out all the fuse boxes in the apartments and direct wired each apartment to a single 40 amp breaker at the meter at the front of the building. I didn't discover this until I moved her out to a rest home, and I was a bit aghast at that arrangement. And of course most of the wiring was still knob and tube, except for a few surface conduit circuit extensions. I figure that removing the fuse boxes satisfied some code requirement but I can't believe that having an entire apartment set up on a single 40 amp breaker was right, either. Of course her stove was gas, the landlord supplied the hot water, and she had few other electrical loads - not even a space heater or a hair dryer. | ||
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Post# 178456 , Reply# 27 12/27/2006 at 03:30 (6,322 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Outer tubs on the new "uber" Miele washers are fiberglass, not plastic. IIRC, Miele for the first time will "allow" liquid chlorine bleach in it's washing machines. No doubt they have given up trying to ween American's off the stuff, and are following Bosch's lead. So have a hunch the new material for outer tubs has some thing to do with this. Also there is the fact that stainless steel is getting pretty pricey. Many front loaders are going to plastic or other materials for their outer tubs, instead of stainless or porcelian coated steel. One thing to note about these new Miele units is they cannot be stacked, just like the uber-sized Bosch Nexxt units. May consider one of these new Miele units in the future, but am quite happy with my vintage W770 series washer, and am in no hurry to swap. Long as she keeps going, and can be kept going, see not need to switch. Besides am not a huge fan of pre-set cycles based on textiles. I like to play around sometimes with cycles, using a little bit of this and a little bit of that to get a certian programme. These computer controlled washers do not allow that, or only with complicated work arounds. Am going to telephone Miele in the morning to see if the brochures are available. L. | ||
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Post# 178528 , Reply# 29 12/27/2006 at 13:53 (6,321 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 178536 , Reply# 30 12/27/2006 at 14:38 (6,321 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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"These computer controlled washers do not allow that, or only with complicated work arounds. " The Neptune 7500 is/was an exception to this rule. It allows just about any combination of water temp, wash speed, spin speed, wash time, pre-soak, stain cycle, number of rinses, etc. that you might dream up. And you can save your recipes in multiple "Favorites" custom combinations. Plus, if you jump into diag mode, you can force the washer to fill, drain, etc. as you please. Good for purging the hot water line. Too bad more washers don't offer the 7500's flexibility. | ||
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Post# 178587 , Reply# 31 12/27/2006 at 19:15 (6,321 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Another NYC 220V Problem
NYC code requires that when any electrical upgrade work is done, if there is a fuse box it must be replaced with a circut breaker panel/box. There are LOTS of apartments/condos,co-ops in NYC that still have fuse boxes, so if one wishes to upgrade to 220v power, it is more than say just adding another circut to the panel or even a sub-box. This is another reason Miele 220v washers, indeed any 220v appliance would run in extra costs for electrical work. Considering how many apartments/co-ops/condos in NYC do not even allow laundry appliances, sneaking in the aforementioned appliances AND doing electrical work is running fast and loose with one's landlord/building board. Now some people have made "arrangements" with electricans to do the work and sumggled in contraband appliances. They will also get the electrican not to file the proper papers with the city regarding the electrical work, so there is no record. These tricks aren't limited to middle income or "poor people", but rather some very high worth people who just wish to have a washer and dryer. Problem is what happens if the building/landlord finds out about the electrical work/laundry appliances. There have been cases of persons getting away with the above, until the apartment is sold (in the case of co-op or condo), and the new owner naturally assumes all electrical work and indeed the laundry appliances were approved by the building. They are rudely awakened when the building tells them it approved no such thing and the appliances must go. They will consider the electrical upgrade work a "bonus" and leave it as it was, as that really cannot be changed. Now, if one hires a fully licensed and good electrican, then the upgrade work should be fine, indeed NYC renters have been known to entirely redo their apartments, including new kitchens with or without their landlords written permission. Problems will arise if something like a fire breaks out and it can be traced back to faulty electrical work. Then all bets are off. Friends of ours had the elctrical work in their appartment upgraded for a Miele, and extra outlets added (they only had like four circuts and one or two outlets in the main living area. So far things have been ok, and their landlord hasn't caught on. Their electrican said he does that sort of thing all the time. The above shows some of the problems Miele faced with 220v only appliances. If you cannot sell such units in one of the highest income areas of the United States, then don't fancy your chances elsewhere in the nation. Persons with larger homes also didn't like the "small" Miele units. They agreed with Consumer Reports about the lack of capacity. So in the end Miele has addressed both issues with these new models. They hold more and run on 120V power, well at least the washing machine. Though don't see anyone sumggling in a 40" tall washing machine. *LOL* L. | ||
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Post# 178686 , Reply# 32 12/28/2006 at 00:30 (6,321 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Understood, Toggle. However, I hope you see the irony in a large home with 220 volt service not wanting a Miele or other 220 volt washer because the capacity is too small. The logical solution would be to provide a large 220 volt washer, for such large homes, not a large 110 volt washer. And, although New Yorkers may not be inclined to believe it, NYC doesn't equal the rest of the nation. For example, what are the best selling dryers in the USA? Electric. What voltage do they take? 220 volt. So ... if there is a huge market for 220 volt electric dryers there should also be a market for 220 volt washers (with provision to share the outlet for a dryer, ala Miele). Not to mention, that there are plenty of laundry rooms with 220 volt outlets but the owner uses a gas dryer instead (like my laundry facility). So I have a 30 amp 220 volt outlet in my laundry room just sitting there, unused, unless I want to drag my arc welder into the family room to blind the parakeet. | ||
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Post# 178688 , Reply# 33 12/28/2006 at 00:40 (6,321 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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All things considered, a pure 200v front loader has more "umph" than it's 120v cousins. Most all commercial/laundromat washing machines, even small capacity models run on 220v power only. This includes pumps (if any), drain valves, motor and so forth. IIRC a 220v motor for instance is allot more resistant to being over loaded than say a 120v one would be. This is great for a front loader as it could take the abuse of being over loaded. Problem with American's is they for the most part have large supplies of tanked hot water, and or use LCB for disenfecting, whitening and stain removal in laundry. Once the need for powerful heaters is removed, then a 120v machine is fine, as 1300 watts or so can heat the small amount of water used by today's front loaders easily. It may take longer than a 3000w/220v front loader, but still it can be done. L. | ||
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Post# 178689 , Reply# 34 12/28/2006 at 00:56 (6,321 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Most 15 amp 110 volt washers max out their heating elements at 1000 watts, not 1300. That's because the motor and electronics take up additional power (esp amperage), and, unless you want the motor to stop while the heater coil is working, then you've got to keep the heating watts down. My Neptune has a 1,000 watt element and it can heat water at about 1 degree/minute for an average size load. If you consider that many hot water heaters are set at 120F, and most machines cool down the water at least 10 degrees upon filling, then your getting 110F to start the wash. Let's say you want to heat that to a respectable 140F for good cleaning and sanitation. That will take 30 minutes, at least. But wait, another strong American trait is impatience. Add 30 minutes to a 60 minute wash cycle (typical) and you're got a 1.5 hr wash cycle. I can hear the complaints now. And god forbid you want to do a 150F or higher "Sanitizing" cycle. That might take 40 extra minutes. A 220 volt machine would readily avoid that kind of problem. | ||
| Post# 178702 , Reply# 36 12/28/2006 at 04:28 (6,321 days old) by sudsman () | ||
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3 phase machines Most of the commerical are 3phase however with the newer veri drive machines most will now go single or 3 phase . All of our machines are 3 ot 4 years old and they all can be single or 3 phase with just a change of a incoming wire. | ||
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Post# 178709 , Reply# 37 12/28/2006 at 05:22 (6,321 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc) |
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Sounds like the "conversion" from single phase to 3ph is done in the electronic motor controller-the electronic VFD type controller could provide the missing "phase" if the machine was run from a single phase 220V line. | ||
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Post# 179458 , Reply# 39 12/30/2006 at 20:02 (6,318 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 179520 , Reply# 40 12/31/2006 at 00:12 (6,318 days old) by lombardian () | ||
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The w4800 is 1599.00 and the w4840 is 1799.00 | ||
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Post# 179525 , Reply# 41 12/31/2006 at 00:26 (6,318 days old) by peteski50 (New York) |
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Miele | ||
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Post# 179535 , Reply# 42 12/31/2006 at 00:59 (6,318 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Those prices do not make sense, IMHO. Took a peek at ABT Appliance's website earlier and the Miele 1200 series washers run any where from about $1600 and up to over two grand. So how do new models, whihch are larger sell for less than their smaller cousins? If these prices are true, then Miele must be doing a "Mercedes-Benz/BMW" on the American consumer. For those that do not get that joke, there was a time when both German automobiles were at the top of their game. If one could afford one, it meant you truly had arrived. Today in order to capture market share, both Mercedes and BMW have in most cases cheapened models to bring price points down to sell more cars. One pretty much as to go up to the Mercedes AMG line to get anywhere near the old quality. Am looking forward to seeing these new Miele machines in person, and kicking the tires. There simply is no free lunch, so either Miele is taking a financial hit by pricing these new units near or lower than domestic machines, with the hopes they will sell enough to make up the difference. Or, quite simply my previous statement is true. L. | ||
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Post# 179719 , Reply# 43 12/31/2006 at 17:53 (6,317 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Most stoves in the coutnry are electric. Doent' mean you
And, although New Yorkers may not be inclined to believe it, NYC doesn't equal the rest of the nation. Ain't THAT a huge truth! :-) I am humbled. Thank you. Still with 8+/- million people there, it is probably not a market to ignore. It made little sense to me that GE (or was it Maytag? OH MY) dropped their short-lived 24 inch wide top-loader years back when that is the largest size cabinet so many can use in their homes. Am I correct in saying that Sears and WP were the only ones to have a "small cabinet" large-capacity 24 inch wide (60cm) machine for a long period of time? | ||
| Post# 179739 , Reply# 44 12/31/2006 at 18:44 (6,317 days old) by exploder3211 () | ||
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From what i saw yeah... I think it was maytag because i seem to recall seeing a 24" maytag sometime ago | ||
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Post# 179746 , Reply# 45 12/31/2006 at 19:13 (6,317 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Really Have To Wonder About 150F "Sanitising" Cycl
Yes,the highest temp of 170F on the uber-Miele washers will "sanitise" but much would depend upon what germs one was trying to destroy, and how long the cycle held said temp. Nevermind little if anything sold in the way of modern linens or apparel in the United States,is labeled for washing above 40C (100F)anyway. Even when "hot" water is on the label, it usually means 120F, which is the common setting on most of today's American domestic hot water heaters. The extreme hot to boiling wash temperatures found on older European washing machines was more a function of activating the oxygen bleaches used on that side of the pond, than anything else. Sure washing laundry at 200F for 30 minutes would kill lots of germs, but only under certian circumstances. Things such as how the machine was loaded, and again, if the temp was not only reached but held througout the cycle. L. | ||
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Post# 179749 , Reply# 46 12/31/2006 at 19:24 (6,317 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 179766 , Reply# 47 12/31/2006 at 20:20 (6,317 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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When You've Got Non Metal | ||
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Post# 179871 , Reply# 48 1/1/2007 at 02:41 (6,317 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Still with 8+/- million people there, it is probably not a m
As it should be hard to ignore the 7+ million in the San Francisco Bay Area. We may not be as compact as NYC, but we have breathtaking views just the same. And Kenmore didn't ignore it when it chose this area to introduce their somewhat historic HE3T front loader back in 2002. What's wrong with using a euro-size combo machine in NYC apartments? Just roll it up to the kitchen sink, hook up the combination fill/drain, and then hide it when the super knocks. For big loads, use the building's coin op. | ||
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Post# 179875 , Reply# 49 1/1/2007 at 03:40 (6,317 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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You would be surprised how many NYC apartment/co-op/condo buildings do not permit laundry appliances and or even dishwashers. Problems lie on several fronts: One, as previously discussed, electrical wiring. Though that may only be a problem when using 220v appliances. Next, one must remember NYC has some of the oldest housing stock in the country, this includes many of the highly desired brownstone and pre-war buildings. Plumbing simply cannot handle all that drain water from washing machines. Maybe one person's might get away with it, but not a majority of the building. Remember also apartment buildings in NYC are not metered for the most part. That means either landlords or the building as whole pays the water bill. It wouldn't be fair for those not having laundry appliances subsidise those who do. Finally there is the problem of what happens if the laundry overflows, who is going to pay for the damages? In co-op/condo buildings that allow laundry appliances, it usually is written somewhere to cover this area, and or the household must carry some sort of insurance. The above not withstanding, many people do have washing machines and or dryers in their NYC apartments. Both our appliance dealer and repair person will ask customers the common question before making a delivery/repair call "does the building allow washing machines"? If not they will try to disguise the appliance(s) in another box, and or for making service calls, say they are there for another reason. Sometimes this works, sometimes not. Our appliance dealer says more than once delivery people will be stopped and asked to open a box to show the building service people/landlord what is inside. Oh yes, the final problem is that NYC has one of the largest population of nosey and or whinging people on the planet. If that washing machine or dryer annoys your neighboor(and for some that does not take much), plan on hearing from your building/landlord the next day. L. | ||
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Post# 179882 , Reply# 51 1/1/2007 at 04:53 (6,317 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Maybe not as much jealous as there are some people who belive in living by the rules or at least as they perceive them to be. NYC apartments are usually NOT very good on sound insulation, so can see if someone was doing laundry at odd hours, how it would bug someone. For co-op or condo buildings they pay water as part of their common charges, so it is in everyone's interest to save where they can. Again, there are allot of appliance stores selling laundry appliances in NYC, so someone must be buying them. Generally unless someone sneaks on you, once the appliances are inside your apartment, things are fine. Think the main problem is many NYC apartments are just too small for anything laundry wise. L | ||
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Post# 179884 , Reply# 53 1/1/2007 at 06:08 (6,317 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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As one who used to work in nursing, shift work isn't so bad, nor sleeping. Night masks, dark drapes and ear plugs do the trick quite well. Of course during the warmer months there is the option of closing the windows and putting on the AC, which keeps things not only cool, but quiet. These days however, there are so many people working from home, apartment buildings are not as quiet as they once were. That coupled with the baby boom can make the daylight hours quite loud. Oh yes, there are many elderly staying put in their apartments these days with a home help coming in,instead of going to a nursing home. This means televisions going full sound all day long. Surely in this day and age there must be a better way for our seniors to hear telly than having the sound turned so loud it can be heard in the next block. | ||
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Post# 180026 , Reply# 55 1/1/2007 at 17:32 (6,316 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Many NYC apartment/co-op/condo buildings do not permit laund | ||
| Post# 180041 , Reply# 56 1/1/2007 at 19:19 (6,316 days old) by oxydolfan1 () | ||
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Now, now, the flyover states have had too much influence in the design of our appliances for too long! Lol! | ||
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Post# 180114 , Reply# 57 1/1/2007 at 22:22 (6,316 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Well, OK...
So the next great thing in American washer design will be a hand carry unit that can fit in a broom closet, that looks like a bookcase filled with old New Yorker magazines, which uses a maximum of one liter of water per load, and which spins at a maximum of 75 rpm so as not to annoy off the people downstairs. Have I got that right? :-) | ||
| Post# 180157 , Reply# 58 1/1/2007 at 23:48 (6,316 days old) by oxydolfan1 () | ||
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No, it must also accomplish all this in 1.575 minutes per load. AND do the windows, in its down time! We are VERY busy people, you know!!! LOL!! | ||
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Post# 180177 , Reply# 59 1/2/2007 at 00:21 (6,316 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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As I said, many NYC residents either go with a washer and or dryer (with or without landlord's/building's consent) or do without. For those doing without more and more buildings are installing laundry equipment to take advantage of the "income" that can be produced. Machines are installed and serivced by route people for the major lines such as Maytag, GE, SQ and such. The other option is one of the numerous wash and fold services that are all over NYC. Most have pick up and delivery, all offer drop off service. Indeed many trade publications predict an increase in drop-off/bulk laundry service not only in major urban areas, but elsewhere as well. Many people simply work too many hours and or do not wish to be bothered doing the wash. Laundromats sadly are a dying breed, at least in Manhanttan. High rent and over head costs simply make owning a mat not a profitable business. The few that survive all offer drop off as well as self service. In the other four broughs, things are a bit better, rents are cheaper and space plentiful. L. | ||
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Post# 180822 , Reply# 60 1/4/2007 at 21:29 (6,313 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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No, it must also accomplish all this in 1.575 minutes per lo | ||
| Post# 180830 , Reply# 61 1/4/2007 at 21:42 (6,313 days old) by oxydolfan1 () | ||
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Vot's a TOKEN??? No, MetroCards (ROFLMAO!) | ||
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Post# 180867 , Reply# 63 1/5/2007 at 01:02 (6,313 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 180892 , Reply# 64 1/5/2007 at 08:20 (6,313 days old) by oxydolfan1 () | ||
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That came after. They kept recycling different versions for ages! | ||
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Post# 180942 , Reply# 65 1/5/2007 at 14:28 (6,312 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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More pics | ||
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Post# 180944 , Reply# 66 1/5/2007 at 14:35 (6,312 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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okay...it's not working
I don't seem to know how to use HTML codes in this forum... Here is the link one more time: s126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/g... | ||
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Post# 180991 , Reply# 67 1/5/2007 at 19:11 (6,312 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Alex, There is a little window to place the window in so it will become a clickable link. Here it is. CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK | ||
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Post# 180992 , Reply# 68 1/5/2007 at 19:15 (6,312 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 180993 , Reply# 69 1/5/2007 at 19:22 (6,312 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 180996 , Reply# 70 1/5/2007 at 20:07 (6,312 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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D'uh! | ||
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Post# 181018 , Reply# 71 1/5/2007 at 23:29 (6,312 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Thanks for the photos. Using the model number W4840, I was able to search the web for pricing. Think there are two models, the 4800 for around $1600, and the 4840 for around $1800. Pricing is more at sites that offer free shipping. I'll wait until my local Miele dealer starts stocking these washers. :-) | ||
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Post# 181020 , Reply# 72 1/5/2007 at 23:32 (6,312 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 181042 , Reply# 73 1/6/2007 at 05:10 (6,312 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Goes To Show!!!
Just how much beefing up the drum brace/support needs in order to give these large load machines durability... I hope they sell well and are not dumbed down in any way, but having had to re-tool a factory and design these machines Miele couldnt afford bad publicity.... My opinion is that as these machines sell and are incorporated into desperate houswives laundry type studios, that laundry habits will be changing , i.e regular loads done often, I cant for the life of me imagining stashing up a weeks worth of damp shower/bath towels to fill a mega load machine, I agree that large dums are useful every so often, small duvets, family/friends gatherings etc, but am convinced that these machines will need to work at no less than half full to gain the dop and flop wash action efficiency... | ||
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Post# 181047 , Reply# 74 1/6/2007 at 05:40 (6,312 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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As I've often said, you younsters can have at these new fangled computer machines, I'll stick to my old W1070 for long as runs. Just am not a huge fan of pre-set cycles, or having to go through major changes to change limited parameters. For instance there are times I wish to use hot or even boiling water, but delicate cycle; such as when laundering/restoring old textiles that have yellowed and or old stains. Below is a descripton of the cycle times someone posted over on THS. Said poster ordered the new Miele washer, and stated the max wash time is 2hrs 48mins if one choses "Sanitise". Cycle--------Options--------Temp--------Spin--------Time Normal-------none-----------warm--------max---------1:04 Normal-------none-----------cold--------max----------1:04 Normal-------none-----------hot---------max----------1:10 Normal-------sensitive-------warm--------max---------1:15 Normal-------extended------warm--------max---------1:34 Normal-------ext + sen------warm--------max---------1:45 Sanitize----Heavy Soil------sanitize--------max---------2:04 Sanitize--Heavy Soil + Sen--sanitize-------max---------2:48 Hand Wash----none--------cold---------max-----------0:41 Woolens-------none--------cold---------high-----------0:41 Silk-----------none---------cold----------slow----------0:36 MasterCare Cycles: Extra White----------------hot-----------max-----------1:14 Delicates------------------cold----------med------------0:47 Denim/Jeans---------------warm---------high-----------1:01 Dress Shirts---------------warm----------med-----------0:55 Comforters----------------warm----------high-----------1:12 Outerwear----------------cold-----------med------------1:04 Table Linens--------------warm----------high-----------1:04 Beach Towels-------------no heat--------max-----------0:24 Express-------------------warm----------max-----------0:30 Drain/Spin-------------------------------max------------0:13 Quick Rinse------------------------------high-----------0:18 ------------------------------------------------------------- What is interesting is the new units run on 120v/15amp service but only have 1400 watts. My vintage W1070 can run on 120v/20 amp serivce but has two 1500 watt heaters (3000 watts total, one leg is disabled when the machine runs on 120v power). Guess Miele really is going for "plug and play" with this washer, with no more special power connections. Still 1500 watts would probably give a slighlty faster water heating. Then again this new larger unit probably uses less water, while doing larger loads than my 5kg washer. L. | ||
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Post# 181063 , Reply# 75 1/6/2007 at 08:46 (6,311 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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The longest cycle I can coax out of my Neptune 7500 is about 110 minutes, which works out to 1:40. I use that for whites, and because it incorporates the "stain cycle" it has the added bonus of using hot water (unboosted) for the first rinse. It gets the whites very clean indeed. There's a limit to how much juice you can coax out of a 15 amp wall socket before the breaker blows. Remember, the electronics and motor use some of the allowable 15 amps, so 1500 watts is pushing it (although plenty of 110 volt space heaters are rated at 1500 watts). At 120 nominal volts, 1500 watts works out to 12.5 amps, which is under the limit, but doesn't leave much room for the motor and the fact that many laundry rooms don't have dedicated circuits just for the washer (the dryer may share the same outlet). Also a 20 amp appliance should require a special plug and outlet - with one of the prongs perpendicular to the other. They are available at home centers but most homes don't have those, either. A 1300 watt heater will use 10.8 amps, which leaves more room for other loads. | ||
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Post# 181865 , Reply# 76 1/9/2007 at 14:31 (6,308 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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miele.com | ||
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Post# 181870 , Reply# 77 1/9/2007 at 14:43 (6,308 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Finally | ||
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Post# 181909 , Reply# 78 1/9/2007 at 15:45 (6,308 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 181941 , Reply# 79 1/9/2007 at 18:12 (6,308 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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The control panel is visible on the web site, though. And unless I'm mistaken, it's a bit of a disappointment. It looks quite dumbed down for mass American consumerism - it's all pre-selected cycles with only three options: Heavy Soil, Extended, and Sensitive. Perhaps there is some mysterious way to customize these selections, but I'm not seeing it. There's no clear way, for example, to change water temp or spin speed for various agitation times and levels. No extra rinse option either. Strange. I'm sure it washes well enough, it's just a bit puzzling. So much for "Advanced Touchtronic" ... less is more? | ||
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Post# 181991 , Reply# 84 1/9/2007 at 20:40 (6,308 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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It's just not all that clear... | ||
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Post# 182149 , Reply# 85 1/10/2007 at 03:07 (6,308 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Awhile back posted a link to a Miele UK website which had the 2007 laundry brochure. You can check there to find the "cousin" for the American models, and read that unit's manual. Did so myself and while certian functions are different, you will get an idea of what these new models are like. As pour moi, still say these new uber units are Miele's way to address the American market, but with some corner cutting. Several commercial laundry owner's I spoke to about these units flat out stated they had seen them, and wouldn't bother for even middle to light commercial use. Being as that may, suppose if one is doing on average one or two wash loads per day (if that), the units will be fine; however consider previous Miele washing machines were built to withstand Madame's three or four wash loads per day, every day for 15 or so years. Finally am not a huge fan of LCD/computer controls, especially in the summer when power demand causes ConEd to cut power (brown outs). Some equipment acts funny under those conditions, and there is the fact hate scrolling through menus to find what am after. Still am eagar as the next to see one of these units in person. L. | ||
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Post# 182373 , Reply# 86 1/10/2007 at 20:58 (6,307 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 182386 , Reply# 87 1/10/2007 at 21:20 (6,307 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Miele washers are NEVER sold in outlet stores, much less K-Sears. Miele keeps a very tight lead indeed on their dealers. Prices, and so forth are carefully controlled, and anyone caught violating their contractual obligations with Miele can be dumped. From what a Miele tech told me, machines returned from dealers often are sold off to Miele employees (who wants to pay to ship one or two appliances back to Germany?), at a decent enough discount. Sudsmaster, keep your eyes peeled for any of the older Miele washers from the 1900 series onwards. They pop up more often than on thinks on fleaBay, CL and other places. Many people just consider Miele laundry appliances too small for them when buying a new home and have them taken out/sold. Great thing about Miele is they stock parts for decades after a model line ceases production. So even if you get a unit that needs work, it is a pretty safe bet Miele will have parts in stock. My unit hasn't been produced in almost 20 years, but parts are still available from Miele USA. L. | ||
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Post# 182452 , Reply# 88 1/11/2007 at 00:24 (6,307 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Yes, I'm aware of Miele's dealer programme
But in its mad rush to appeal to the lowest common denominator in the American laundry marketplace, viz, 110 volts, plastic outer tubs, super large capacity, etc... Perhaps Miele will one day be pushing its American-market washers in the big chain stores like SEars, Best Buy. Who knows, maybe they would even show up at Lowe's or Home Depot. Stranger things have happened. | ||
| Post# 182545 , Reply# 89 1/11/2007 at 16:28 (6,306 days old) by jonv112 () | ||
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Miele @ The Bay I was at The Bay on Tuesday last week, and when I was browsing through the appliance section, I saw a Miele W&D set on display, plus a Advanta and Optima DW on display as well, but they are all so pricey! | ||
| Post# 182748 , Reply# 90 1/12/2007 at 16:01 (6,305 days old) by bewitched (Italy) | ||
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Once upon a time... Once upon a time there were washing machines and there was Miele...something really on its own... Plastic wash tub? Aaaaarrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I hope these Miele will never hit european market!!! | ||
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Post# 183179 , Reply# 91 1/14/2007 at 18:42 (6,303 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI) |
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I saw the new "mega Miele" today, and frankly I wasn't impressed. WAYYYY too plasticky for my taste. I didn't like that the drum was tilted so far, it looks almost like a Neptune drum, perhaps tilted more so. I also didn't like that it had a bleach dispenser and that the drum vanes were solid. I vow NEVER to buy a modern residential front loader with solid vanes, they need to be perforated in order to help justify how little water they use. I also saw a regular Miele there, not sure what the model was, but there was no LED display for the time... Anyway, I liked that machine a LOT better, it had the perforated drum vanes, the 220 volt power, no bleach dispenser and a completely horizontal drum! Hopfully sometime this summer I'll be purchasing a Miele W1215!
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Post# 183185 , Reply# 92 1/14/2007 at 19:06 (6,303 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Tilting at Mieles
I am very surprised that the new Miele 4840 has a tilted drum. This is after years of Miele criticizing other mfg's (namely Maytag) for daring to build a washer with a tilted drum. Miele has always maintained that for proper "fall height" a drum needs to be perfectly level. I've never completely bought that argument, and now, that Miele has come out with a tilted drum washer, I suppose they don't buy it completely, either. I understand the 4840 has a 8 degree tilt. For comparison, the solid door Neptune have a 15 degree tilt. The HE3 has a 13 degree tilt. The LG, an 11 degree tilt. Don't know about others, but the GE Adora and the Duet Sport washers have zero tilt. | ||
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Post# 183204 , Reply# 93 1/14/2007 at 20:36 (6,303 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Miele realised what many already have who make large front loaders, after a certian drum size units require some sort of titled angle to the drum for easier access. Of course this can be eliminated if the washer will be placed high enough on a concrete slab or other type of platform. IIRC Milnor and a few other commercial front loaders have slight tilts to their drums. As for things Miele stated they would "never" do: well one can add straight 120v power and allowing LCB to the list. Miele really is pulling all the stops out on this to capture "Middle America" with these new models. This next bit can be taken with a grain of salt if one wishes, but spoke to several commercial laundry people who had inquired about the new larger Miele units for use in a "light" commercial setting. To a man all were discouraged with the common theme that the units were not up to the task. Historically Miele laundry appliances have been built to withstand European laundry habits of on average several wash loads per day, many with water temps of over 180F. Do ntt think the fiberglass outer tubs will withstand multiple wash loads per day at max temp in sucession. Personally think Miele will end up like other German luxry brand names such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW and such: there will be a top tier line for those that have the lolly and wish the "real thing", and a lower tier for those who just wish to own the brand. | ||
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Post# 183251 , Reply# 96 1/15/2007 at 01:37 (6,303 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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"Do ntt think the fiberglass outer tubs will withstand
With a wimpy 110 volt heater element, I don't think there is much chance of anyone attempting multiple loads per day at max temp with a 4 cu ft Miele anyway. With a water heater set to 120F, it would probably take more than two hours for the poor thing to reach 170F and complete a wash cycle. Then again, I can't think of many residential design front loaders that do commercial duty in the USA - with the possible exception of the Maytag Neptune, which has appeared in some numbers in laundromats across the nation, with mixed results. But then there are few residential design front loaders that can reasonably be expected to last 20 years. | ||
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Post# 183257 , Reply# 97 1/15/2007 at 02:19 (6,303 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Well there are the Speed Queen "Homestyle" line of washers, which were sold for years as "light commercial" washers before their redesign for home use. FWIW many dry cleaners and laundries have used the Miele residential line washers, especially for doing silk items. As for a 110v powered Miele reaching 170F, my vintage Miele W1070 is currently running on 120v/20amp power (using one leg of 3000 watts heater ='s 1500 watts) and can take 120F water to 170F or even 180F in about 40minutes or less. Will heat that same water to 200F with a bit more time without any problems. Am willing to bet my vintage machine uses more water for the wash cycles that this newer large sized machine. L. | ||
| Post# 183267 , Reply# 98 1/15/2007 at 07:48 (6,303 days old) by irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City) | ||
I am quite shocked that they have "comprimised" a 
Before I bought my Miele W/D, I read the thing about the tilted drum how it would force the load to the back, and some would not get as clean, clothes would get 'trapped' in the front. Although Miele would like to capture the American market, I hope that they have not comprimised and made it less than its pretisessors. I love mine, I think that it is bullet proof, I love the heating element, I am not a big fan of plastic, that is where I wonder if they have gone to far. I know that the drain hose on my washer is in fact ,plastic. All of the steaming hot water drains out of it.I will have to play with it when I go to Seattle, and I can give everyone the run down on it. If anyone is in Seattle, there is a Luwa distributing in Tukwilla (206-574-0770).Make an appontment, and they will let you do a few loads for free in it.There are a few other places in the country that there are showrooms at the distributer that they also do the same thing, it could and would be a fun field trip. They make good stuff, I hope that they have not sold out and gone the way of everything else, down the drain.
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| Post# 183279 , Reply# 99 1/15/2007 at 10:09 (6,302 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
Plastic wash tubs and high temeratures
Though not so fond of them myself, I do not think there will be any problems to expect with the combination of boil washes and plastic outer tubs. I mean that other manufacturers in Europe have been using them along with (pretended) 95°C programes for over a decade without problems. There is just one nasty thing about them. In case of bearing failture, the whole machine is generally not worth to repair, due to the costs. | ||
| Post# 183285 , Reply# 100 1/15/2007 at 10:53 (6,302 days old) by askomiele (Belgium Ghent) | ||
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And there are more odors in a plastic tub than in a stainless steel one... after some nosework..:D | ||
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Post# 183324 , Reply# 102 1/15/2007 at 13:24 (6,302 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Additionally, there are coffee makers made of plastic, polycarbonate, as in Bodum's vacuum coffee maker marketed in the USA by Starbucks. Since the temp of that routinely reaches 200F, can't see how being plastic automatically rules out a part from sub-boiling high temp service. CVPC plastics are approved for use with hot water lines. And, as noted, virtually all washer hoses are at the very least lined with a rubber or synthetic rubber (plastic) substance. The bearing situation is regrettable, but I recall one chap over on THS who successfully replaced the bearings on his Frigmore despite the fact that it has a plastic outer tub. Personally I would vastly prefer a stainless outer tub, but I can understand where cost and other considerations dictate plastic. The least durable material to use for an outer tub probably would be porcelain enamel steel - which is notorious for eventual rust-through. | ||
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Post# 183490 , Reply# 103 1/16/2007 at 02:16 (6,302 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Manuals and Operating Guides | ||
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Post# 184484 , Reply# 104 1/20/2007 at 01:56 (6,298 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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I notice that Miele recommends that the 4840 drum only be loaded 3/4 full, as a normal procedure. Does this mean that the machine is really more like a 3.0 cu ft unit, as opposed to the claimed 4.0 cu ft? As I recall, the more traditional Miele models simply recommend leaving space the size of a fist at the top of the drum; not 1/4 of the total volume. | ||
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Post# 184487 , Reply# 105 1/20/2007 at 02:49 (6,298 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Noticed that as well, not sure why and have been meaning to get an answer from Miele. It tis rather odd that a uber-capacity washing machine would require only 3/4 full loads,whereas previous Miele washing machines would advise one could load the machine fully long as one did not exceed weight limits/left some room at the top. Since most laundry compacts down when wet, that means a 3/4 full load of towels could end up being just 1/2 or less. In real terms that probably is not much more than the large 6kg units can handle. L. | ||
| Post# 184489 , Reply# 106 1/20/2007 at 03:07 (6,298 days old) by askomiele (Belgium Ghent) | ||
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Just load as full as you want, they should handle more than 3/4. I never read the manuals that close. My whites are stuffed loads and no miele has ever stopped working because of that, just load and wash! | ||
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Post# 184490 , Reply# 107 1/20/2007 at 03:42 (6,298 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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No, don't think that can be the answer. For one thing the tub on the new uber-Miele washers is titled, therefore what one would consider a normal load for regular Miele washers may count as "over loading". While it may not make a difference, should something go wrong Miele won't be responsible if one does not follow directions. L. | ||
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Post# 184571 , Reply# 108 1/20/2007 at 15:42 (6,297 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 185364 , Reply# 110 1/24/2007 at 00:51 (6,294 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Thanks for the first-person report, Maineman. Re your Samtag: the squeak in spin could be bearings or something more simple, like shocks/springs or maybe even the door boot. If this is a belted model, then that could be it as well. Of course if getting a Miele is contingent upon the Samtag experiencing a definite collapse, then perhaps you don't want to delve too deeply into what's wrong. | ||
| Post# 185477 , Reply# 111 1/24/2007 at 14:00 (6,293 days old) by cbosch () | ||
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Thank god Finnally a miele with a glass door dryer!! | ||
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Post# 185498 , Reply# 112 1/24/2007 at 14:40 (6,293 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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| Post# 185563 , Reply# 113 1/24/2007 at 18:09 (6,293 days old) by oxydolfan1 () | ||
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Purty. Muy techno.... Nmaineman.....don't worry about the Samsung giving up the ghost. You wouldn't be the first person to accidentally add five boxes of Royal Strawberry gelatin to your detergent dispenser and then hit Sanitize.... Nuff said.....:) | ||
| Post# 185804 , Reply# 114 1/25/2007 at 09:12 (6,292 days old) by the7 () | ||
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I would prefer if the Mega Meile 27" FL has true H-axis design and stainless steel outer drum like their older 24" versions. It seems that SQ is the only 27" FL with true H-axis design and SS outer drum. | ||
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Post# 186382 , Reply# 115 1/27/2007 at 09:11 (6,290 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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New Press Release | ||
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Post# 186504 , Reply# 116 1/27/2007 at 19:22 (6,290 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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In search of Mega
I paid a late afternoon visit to my local Miele/Speed Queen dealer today. Unfortunately, on both machines, he came up empty. He had the older SQ front loader (ugly!) and a few small Mieles, but said it wouldn't be until some time in February that they'd get in their mega Mieles. He did have display the black Maytag Epic, and said that Whirlpool was planning on making Jenn-Aire the premium washer brand. I'll believe that when I see it, since I don't think many people associate Jenn-Aire with washers. He also had the fiendishly expensive all-stainless Kitchenaid behemoth pair. You know, close to $4,000 for just the washer. They looked nice, built like tanks, with trick control panels, but inside they just looked like ordinary Duets to me. So, I went home empty handed. Not that I was planning on buying anything anyway. | ||
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Post# 192213 , Reply# 117 2/19/2007 at 01:42 (6,268 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Finally got to see the new Miele 4840 yesterday. It is a nice machine. Is $1800 worth of nice? Don't know. They had it plugged in so I got to play with the controls. The Mastercare feature was nice, probably worth the extra $200. I didn't see any obvious flaws in the workmanship, and the honeycomb drum looked great. Interestingly, the matching dryer drum has a honeycomb pattern emossed into it as well, but the salesman just kind of laughed when I pointed that out. We agreed it was probably just to match the washer drum pattern. They had a stack of brochures inside the washer, but the installation/operator's manuals were nowhere to be found. I was a little puzzled that the dryer brochure shows only one way to vent the dryer, out the lower left rear... which would not work for my laundry closet (a dryer placed there must vent out the left side, or straight down from the bottom of the dryer). I wasn't a real fan of the control system, which hides any information about actual water temps (other than "hot, warm, cold, etc) or spin speed rpms (Other than "max, medium" etc). But I suppose most consumers would prefer a simplified interface. | ||
| Post# 192222 , Reply# 118 2/19/2007 at 05:42 (6,268 days old) by irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City) | ||
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You become acostomed to it after a while | ||
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Post# 192224 , Reply# 119 2/19/2007 at 06:06 (6,268 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia) |
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Honeycomb in Dryer They claim allows for a cushion of air between the drum and the clothes. Thus in theory the clothes dont rub along the drum, they glide on air. As to how it works, I'm not 100% sure. If it's just marketing, then its no different to the honeycomb drum in the washer. | ||
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Post# 192293 , Reply# 120 2/19/2007 at 15:37 (6,267 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Well, here's what Miele says about its Honeycomb dryer d
Press Release No. 149/2004 Honeycomb drum offers double drying benefits Aired and gently cushioned The patented honeycomb drum on the Miele tumble dryer offers the double benefits of cushioning laundry as it tumbles and improving the exposure of laundry to airflow. A certificate issued by Germany's highly esteemed Hohensteiner Institute after testing the honeycomb drum which now also features on Miele tumble dryers highlights the 'evener drying results and the reduced creasing' as being tangible consumer benefits. This endorsement by experts underlines the practical laundry-care value of the honeycomb drum. The most striking feature of the dryer drum are the hexagonal sections which arch outwards. In the tumble dryer, this traps tiny pockets of air between the laundry and the walls of the drum. These reduce friction and also act as miniature cushions, gently catching laundry as it tumbles and represent a major contribution towards reducing the strain on laundry. Another positive effect of the pockets of trapped air is that laundry is exposed to warm air from both sides during drying. This results in faster and more even drying, allowing the air temperature to be reduced. Lower mechanical action and reduced drum speeds thanks to the introduction of the honeycomb drum improve the gentle treatment of fabrics and reduce creasing levels. Mechanical action through friction is reduced through the smaller contact surface and by suction forming in the hexagonal air pockets as the air cools down, effectively turning these air pockets into tiny suction pads which transport laundry further around the clock face. This results in a greater fall height and consequently prolonged exposure to the air stream. This in turn results in improved, more even drying results. These properties are so effective that Miele design engineers were even able to reduce drum speeds. The honeycomb drum is an invention which mimics structures which occur in the natural world around us. Why shouldn't what is second nature in the world of flora and fauna find its way into state-of-the-art appliances? For example in washing machines and tumble dryer drums. Bionics – a term bringing together biology and technology – is nothing other than plagiarism from the natural world, putting good ideas to technical use, a trend which is starting to take off in industry. | ||
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Post# 192328 , Reply# 121 2/19/2007 at 21:19 (6,267 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 197568 , Reply# 123 3/15/2007 at 02:07 (6,244 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Thanks for the report on the pair, Laundrylady. The increased air flow MIGHT be a cause of increased noise. I think the increased air flow of the Maytag Neptune dryer is responsible for at least part of the greater noise (when compared to a White-Westinghouse dryer it replaced). But if your neighbor can hear it, I suspect that there might be something wrong. I'm also guessing that this dryer is sold in the USA only, so it may be that (gasp) Miele didn't do quite as good a job of engineering and/or manufacturing it as they did with the washer. Just a guess. | ||
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Post# 197570 , Reply# 124 3/15/2007 at 03:35 (6,244 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia) |
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Long term these will come to other countries A little dicky bird told me to expect that at least 1 model of the super jumbo mega sized Miele's will make it into Australia in the next 12/18 months. | ||
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Post# 197680 , Reply# 125 3/15/2007 at 19:58 (6,243 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Don't know about the dryer but the washer is supposed to be available here in 2008. Too bad there isn't more info available regarding the dryer and it's features. Miele.ca states: "Drying your clothing the Miele way! The performance and efficiency of a Miele full size dryer is unparalleled. Equipped with the most powerful motor in its category, air flow is maximized resulting in reduced drying times and temperatures. This means less wear and tear on your clothing and lowers energy consumption." I can only guess that, since Miele also makes commercial equipment, they might have incorporated some professional technology into this dryer - like an extra powerful fan, for example. BTW: the dryer is rated 6.36 cubic feet (according to Miele.ca) HTH, Alex | ||
| Post# 197682 , Reply# 126 3/15/2007 at 20:22 (6,243 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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Post# 197922 , Reply# 127 3/16/2007 at 21:50 (6,242 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Well, Herr Kochwäsche ;)
I'm guessing it'll probably be around 8 kg +. Good thing is that the Miele is a *real* large capacity machine - like the Bauknecht BIG or the Bosch Logixx 9 - not a fake one like the new standard-sized Bosch/Siemens washers that are supposed to hold as much laundry (8 kg) as all the other large capacity washers even though the BSH drum is just 65 liters / 2.3 cu.ft. | ||
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Post# 197949 , Reply# 128 3/16/2007 at 23:10 (6,242 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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The American website says that it is 4.00 cubic feet, so that would be 113 liters.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK | ||
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Post# 197954 , Reply# 129 3/16/2007 at 23:51 (6,242 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Miele Dryer
A poster over on THS/Laundry Forum who purchased the new uber Miele set also complained the dryer was a tad loud for his tastes. Miele sent out a representive and told him the sound was normal operation. So guess the answer is, yes, Miele has compenstated energy savings in lowering heat by using more air flow. Then again maybe the heating isn't that low; our local laundromat dryers are also loud but will turn out crispy laundry if one uses "high" and allows items to over dry. Just as an aside, was speaking to Miele tech support the other day about my W770, and was told the new uber Miele washers have three phase motors. Thought that was only possible on 220V power? Must have been mistaken . L. | ||
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Post# 197969 , Reply# 130 3/17/2007 at 06:57 (6,242 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia) |
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The 3 phases are created by electronics. You have 1 phase 110 or 230 in AU come in, and 3 phases go to the motor. It allows the motor to be simplified yet still allowing for precise speed control. | ||
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Post# 199094 , Reply# 133 3/23/2007 at 00:26 (6,236 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Laundrylady, You're welcome. I also have the 7500 Neptune set, but also got a 7 year extended service agreement (it runs out next winter), and it came in very handy to address what now seems to be virtually all the problems with this set. However, I digress. I think the 7500 is too loud - certainly louder than the vintage GE and the White Westinghouse dryers that preceded it. If the Mega Miele dryer is louder than that, then no thanks to that. The laundery closet in this home is in a very central location, and a noisy dryer would be a big inconvenience. Bewitched, I actually line dry a lot, but there are times and certain load types that are best suited to a mechanical dryer. The choice here anyway isn't between line drying and machine drying - Laundrylady has already bought the dryer, and it's not entire satisfactory to tell her not to use it at all because of a design issue. The mfg should fix that design flaw, regardless of how much the customer intends to use the dryer. | ||
| Post# 199143 , Reply# 134 3/23/2007 at 12:13 (6,235 days old) by bewitched (Italy) | ||
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It was only a joke! I would be extremely angry paying for something who doesn't work satisfactorily... Anyway I think Miele will perfectly be able to cope with all the needs of customers included repairing of faults. | ||
| Post# 199369 , Reply# 136 3/24/2007 at 20:04 (6,234 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
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Post# 199900 , Reply# 137 3/28/2007 at 07:48 (6,231 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
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I believe that one of the better reasons for using the Fiberglass outer tub is the material's better insulating properties when the unit is using 120 volts to heat wash water. | ||
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Post# 200005 , Reply# 138 3/28/2007 at 19:50 (6,230 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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What Laundress said! | ||
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Post# 200028 , Reply# 140 3/28/2007 at 21:33 (6,230 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Actually from what one has read here in the group and other places, a three phase motor is much better than single phase. This is especially true for front loading washing machines, and even more so once they start going into the 12lbs and above capacity. Mostly all laundromat front loaders from the smallest to large run on 220v/three phase power. Probably are units that run on 120v and or 220v single phase, but am willing to bet they are sold for "quasi" commercial use such as in beauty salons and such. Remember that of the large commercial front loaders, IIRC only the European models such as those by Miele have internal heaters. American washers normally are sold with the ability to be connected to a steam boiler for heating water. Again I've seen Wascomat, Speed Queen and other laundromat front loaders with spec plates giving what steam boiler pressure settings to use if one was hooking them up to heat water. Sadly not that Miele has pretty much given up the ghost, doubt if we will see much more than "small" capacity Euro units like those offered by Miele or Bosch that will run on 220v and "boil" laundry. Miele tried to fight the good fight, but it seems Americans simply were not interested in numbers enough to justify production in a washing machine that runs on 220v power, no matter how large the capacity. L. | ||
| Post# 200121 , Reply# 142 3/29/2007 at 09:03 (6,230 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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Post# 200331 , Reply# 143 3/30/2007 at 07:25 (6,229 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
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The pair is in front of the counter, in line with the door, so that they are the focus of attention as you enter the Brother's Sew & Vac store in Bethesda. | ||
| Post# 200350 , Reply# 145 3/30/2007 at 09:08 (6,229 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
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