Thread Number: 96390
/ Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Bosch dishwasher high performance pumps |
[Down to Last] | ![]() |
![]() |
Post# 1211004 , Reply# 1   8/2/2024 at 01:37 (283 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 1    
![]() Good question, I don't know Bosch's reasoning but my guess is primarily two fold:
1) Achieve various pressures based on load type- ie pots and pans get strong pressure, everyday cycles medium pressure, china cycles deliver low pressure. GE for example would either introduce air into the sump boot or do a reduced fill to soften the water on the china crystal cycle.
2) Compensate for the tall tub low water design-
a) To prevent drawing in air or cavitation, the pump slows down as water is returning into the sump then speeds up to deliver it to the wash arm. As soon as the pump starts to draw in air, it slows, waits for the water to return, then ramps up. Its a way of using less water with the same sump, pump and spray arms.
b) To purge trapped air bubbles out of the pump and sump.
c) To warm the air inside once the door has been opened or the machine has drained and re-filled. The rapidly expanding cold air can force water out of the bottom vents where the door linear meets the tub floor- so by warming the air inside through brief bursts of water there is less cold air to expand at start of wash.
I'm sire there are other reasons, but these 4 come to mind. |
Post# 1211012 , Reply# 2   8/2/2024 at 06:38 (283 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
I noticed mine does it on every cycle. What about the auto cycle? The first pre-wash is at low pressure, while the main wash is at high pressure. The final rinse is at low pressure too. Why is that? |
Post# 1211016 , Reply# 3   8/2/2024 at 07:20 (283 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 1    
![]() Not sure- maybe energy. It takes less pressure to rinse dishes than to clean them, in theory, so running the pump at low speed saves energy without sacrificing performance.
Me personally I like across the line motors. VFDs add complexity and various failure points. Electrolytic caps have a finite lifespan, so if those are present in a machine its a given expiration date. |
Post# 1211032 , Reply# 5   8/2/2024 at 11:14 (283 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
Back to the pumps, I wonder if electricity is increased or decreased when changing pump speeds, or if it's at constant full charge and the electricity goes to different phases. Either way, my dishes still get clean completely regardless. I'm just used to single speed pumps. |
Post# 1211035 , Reply# 6   8/2/2024 at 11:25 (283 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
![]() |
Post# 1211066 , Reply# 7   8/2/2024 at 17:22 (283 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
I believe mine is a 3 phase pump. You can hear the water flowing throughout the dishwasher at both pressure levels. And, it sounds fairly strong when the dishwasher is empty at both pressure levels too. As a side note, check out my thread about dishwasher detergent fragrances and another one regarding shrimp Alfredo casserole. |
Post# 1211076 , Reply# 8   8/2/2024 at 18:24 (283 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 2    
![]() If the machine works for you, if it makes you happy, then I am happy. If the Bosch works for you then it works for you, thats all that matters. 3 phase induction motors are the best out there. They have the lowest vibration, smoothest power output, great torque and are among the most efficient. I don't know what the slip on that motor is, but if driven by a high frequency that motor may not even get super hot to the touch making is bar none while extending its life.
Thanks for bring those threads to my attention, I will check them out! :) |
Post# 1211079 , Reply# 9   8/2/2024 at 18:48 (283 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 1    
permanent magnet rotor,so no "slip" and runs cool-no cooling provisions besides(normally hot) water going through pump. |
Post# 1211082 , Reply# 10   8/2/2024 at 19:36 (283 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 1    
![]() |
Post# 1211083 , Reply# 11   8/2/2024 at 19:51 (283 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
![]() |
Post# 1211085 , Reply# 12   8/2/2024 at 20:06 (283 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 1    
![]() |
Post# 1211090 , Reply# 14   8/2/2024 at 20:16 (283 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
Oh, I see. That may explain why my Bosch dishwasher which is under the name Kenmore runs so smoothly. Maybe it's the variable spray feature that keeps the water active even when changing pressure. |
Post# 1211092 , Reply# 15   8/2/2024 at 20:19 (283 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
One thing I forgot to mention is that when you press the power button to turn the machine on, you'll hear 4 clicks then you'll hear power being applied to the pump as if it's about to start. Why do Bosch dishwashers do that? Mine which is a Kenmore does that. |
Post# 1211097 , Reply# 16   8/2/2024 at 20:58 (283 days old) by appnut ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 3    
![]() |
Post# 1211102 , Reply# 17   8/2/2024 at 22:41 (283 days old) by DADoES ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 2    
![]() Fisher & Paykel SmartDrive motors are 3-phase in both topload washers and DishDrawers. SmartLoad dryer also has a 3-phase, reversing motor. And AquaSmart's SmartPump. DD603 DishDrawer motor description from the service doc: The motor is a fully electronically controlled 80V, 60w, 3 phase, 6 pole brushless DC motor, running on wash at between 2300-2850rpm depending on the cycle selected and at approximately 4200 rpm on Drain. Series 9 DishDrawer: The motor is a fully electronically controlled 80V, 60w, 3 phase, 6 pole brushless DC motor, running on wash at between 2200 - 2800 rpm depending on the cycle selected, and at approximately 5000 rpm on drain. AquaSmart pump: The motor is a fully electronically controlled 325V, 3 phase, 6 pole, brushless DC motor. The speed of the motor will vary depending on whether it is draining or recirculating the water. Motor Resistance per Phase: 8.1Ω +/- 10% (16.2Ω +/- 10% across any two phases). Maximum Wattage: 200W Nominal Wattage: 60W Drain Speed: 2500rpm Recirculation Speed: 2000 rpm |
Post# 1211115 , Reply# 18   8/3/2024 at 05:43 (282 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 1    
If anything, the only thing you'll hear is the high pitch pump motor drive. It's the best dishwasher I've ever had. The noise you'll hear the most is water splashing around. It does sound like a thunderstorm in the dishwasher. |
Post# 1211522 , Reply# 19   8/7/2024 at 12:22 (278 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 6    
![]() |
Post# 1211555 , Reply# 20   8/7/2024 at 17:43 (278 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
I know what marketing is. I just feel they should just back up their marketing claims with time-tested designs like Speed Queen Alliance does. |
Post# 1211748 , Reply# 22   8/9/2024 at 19:25 (276 days old) by appnut ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 2    
![]() |
Post# 1211797 , Reply# 23   8/10/2024 at 11:45 (275 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 1    
Mine has a plastic floor and does that servo startup sound. |
Post# 1211798 , Reply# 24   8/10/2024 at 11:49 (275 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
I've had to open my dishwasher while it was on low speed pumping during washing to be certain that the jets were traveling. I still don't get what the logic was. They could've used the full speed all throughout. |
Post# 1211799 , Reply# 25   8/10/2024 at 12:09 (275 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 4    
![]() |
Post# 1211809 , Reply# 26   8/10/2024 at 16:46 (275 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
Yes! It is stupid, stupid, stupid! And it should have a stainless steel floor! |
Post# 1211819 , Reply# 27   8/10/2024 at 20:30 (275 days old) by appnut ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 3    
![]()
I have no complaints about my bosch dishwasher. It far outcleans any of the KitchenAid produced Kenmore Elites I had (2) and even the GSD1200 Potscrubber. It's the only dishwasher I've ever used in my 60+ years of actually using dishwahers whereby soil and film has been removed off my crock pot slow cooker liner and scrabled eggs in a stainless steel skillet. I don't get all bent out of shape about it useig different speeds. In fact I see some logic/rationale with initial prewash not using full force spray. It's like manually prerinsing dishes (which I DO NOT DO) before putting them in the dishwasher. The big pieces are knocked off and flushed down the drain through the filter. Makes sense to me. Then the rinse deals with soils that weren't easily remooved. Then the main wash deals with the worst of the soil for the next 50-70 minutes. And the final rinse of the cycle before dry is mostly gentler spray. Why not. Every thing is clean. Just largely heating up the load in preparation for drying or you've selected the sanitize rinse. No intense spraying to degrade dishware. In fact, the Bosch has removed cloudiness the Potscrubber and the Kitchenpools created.
My Bosch is variable speed, not just 2 speeds. |
Post# 1211830 , Reply# 28   8/10/2024 at 23:55 (274 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
Now I see the logic in this. So the soft spray is for getting the big stuff and for the final rinse, and the main wash and second rinse after the first is at full force. Maybe the jets still travel but it's like the pressure is at a flow instead of a blast thereby soaking the dishes. |
Post# 1211832 , Reply# 29   8/11/2024 at 00:27 (274 days old) by simpsomatic ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 7    
The only logic in your post is that the pressure is in your head and needs a blast to clear it |
Post# 1211897 , Reply# 30   8/11/2024 at 17:30 (274 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
I've had older dishwashers that kept the pressure at full force and they've always gotten the insides of glasses clean as long as the jets are designed right. Yes, my dishwasher cleans great. I just prefer the jets traveling throughout the machine at all times. I want the water to get through all the nooks and crannies. |
Post# 1211961 , Reply# 31   8/12/2024 at 15:58 (273 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
@maytaga806, I wish dishwashers today had transparent doors like washers and dryers so we could see what's going on. |
Post# 1216624 , Reply# 32   10/13/2024 at 15:54 (211 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
I've had occasions where the final rinse was at high pressure. Why is this the case? |
Post# 1216626 , Reply# 33   10/13/2024 at 16:00 (211 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
I've put the shrimp Alfredo casserole dish straight into the machine and the pump was able to blast it completely clean. No rinsing, no scrubbing, nothing. Everything comes out completely clean, even on smart wash HE. |
Post# 1216635 , Reply# 34   10/13/2024 at 18:32 (211 days old) by eronie ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 7    
Enough Jerome we are all getting tired of dragging a dead horse |
Post# 1216678 , Reply# 35   10/14/2024 at 11:55 (210 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 1    
On top of that, I've put dirty pancake battered bowls into the machine, in addition to my dirty plates and I've never had to rewash anything. I think mine is comparable to appnut's dishwasher due to the fact mine is a Bosch built Kenmore. I think it cleans better than any other dishwasher I've used before, ever. Finish does work better than Cascade folks. |
Post# 1216682 , Reply# 36   10/14/2024 at 13:06 (210 days old) by Egress (Oregon)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 8    
dude please, we dont need the rambling. |
Post# 1216684 , Reply# 38   10/14/2024 at 14:59 (210 days old) by simpsomatic ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 6    
Please do not offer any encouragement to these two NUTS. They will drag this non-contributing thread on forever with their Facebook dribble and continue to demean other AW members. |
Post# 1223917 , Reply# 41   2/9/2025 at 00:04 by appnut ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 2    
![]()
Well, Jerome it makes sense to me. There's conditioning of the dishes in the dishwasher rather than just "shock" the dishware. I trust European thought and design on this matter. I haave no complaints whatsoever. I don't ger all OCD all over the process, the results and outcome is what matters to me. They design their dishwashers to serve markets worldwide and not just here in the wild USA. IN some ways, my dishwashers in the past just bore me to death as they are just there and not much variation and surprise with results.
|
Post# 1223919 , Reply# 42   2/9/2025 at 00:22 by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
Oh, so maybe I'm used to the dishwasher shocking the dishes, instead of conditioning them. Maybe the spray is strong enough to flow through both arms in a flowing motion instead of just blasting motion. This may be my first encounter with a European dishwasher in an apartment setting and I'm struggling to understand what the dishwasher is doing. |
Post# 1223947 , Reply# 43   2/9/2025 at 10:47 by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 6    
The rambling never ends does it Jerome? Nobody cares dude |
Post# 1223954 , Reply# 44   2/9/2025 at 13:31 by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
Of course I'm rambling. What do you expect? I am so used to older dishwashers that just get to work. Maybe it's just me, but I want water to get into every single nook and cranny imaginable within the machine. |
Post# 1223995 , Reply# 45   2/9/2025 at 20:35 by chetlaham ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]() 2    
![]() Jerome, look into thermal shock. After a main wash, the dishware is very hot, perhaps say 150*F. When water enters the tub for rinse, particularly with long runs of water lines during the winter coupled with a water heater set to less than 120*F, the water will be cold then change to warm as its filling. It will not be 150*F. As such you've got 150*F dishware being hit with say 90*F water. To reduce stress the water is gently pulsed, gradually cooling the dishes down over a protracted period of time.
Think take glass out of an oven, then pouring ice cold water on it. Often times it will crack or shatter. Same thing, just more extreme. |
Post# 1224019 , Reply# 46   2/10/2025 at 02:16 by foraloysius ![]() |
  | |
Checkrate/Likes
![]()      
![]()
Most European dishwashers are cold fill. I use the Pots and Pans cycle on my Miele most of the time at 75 degrees Celsius (167 degrees Fahrenheit). It’s cooled down a bit but for the two rinses afterwards cold water enters the machine and blasts it on the dihes. Never had something broken. So it’s a nonissue.
|