Thread Number: 96616  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
IFA 2024 		[Down to Last]
Post# 1213808   9/4/2024 at 09:31 (250 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I usually am pretty early on this yearly tradition post, but I wasn't abled to find much this year - until now.

I'll make thise general post and the make responses for each manufacturer as I get to it.

I thought this year was going to be boring, but it sure as hell isn't!




Post# 1213809 , Reply# 1   9/4/2024 at 09:46 (250 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Miele W2/T2

 I was used to be abled to find some reminants of upcomming models on Mieles website - either in the parts catalouge or in the manuals - but nothing this year.

I just got home from work, checked their press site, and they just dropped this bomb:
www.miele.de/en/m/even-ge...

I mean, the W1 is something like 10 or 12 years old now? So, they just redid some MAJOR stuff.


The washer:
NO DRUM PADDLES. Uh huh. OK. If it wasn't Miele I would have written that off in the first sentence.
But it's Miele and they usually only launch if things at least work somewhat.
They use 6 lifted honeycomb shapes and special drum motion to get similar lifting effects without the lifter bars. LG has reduced their drum paddles to basicly nothing aswell, and it kinda works pretty OK. So I have my doubts, but we'll see.

They further claim to have improved wash times, usage and sensing on partial loads. Was about time - having 2 or 3 load levels on a 2k€ washer was just laughable.
That comes with a new automatic cycle that claims to have linear usage per kg regardless of load size (up to 4kg). Wanna wash your sports clothing directly after each work out? Sure, go ahead, no wastage.
That sounds amazing actually. Load sensing was ok, but now, they appear to be on par with the competion, and with the generaly more reasonable wash times of Miele, that's a huge thing.

Some things haven't change: PowerWash, TwinDos, up to 1600rpm, AllWater in the top model.
Given the dimensions and naming of the announced models (WQ1000 and WQ1200) I would assume the latter is a larger 12kg version.
Design has changed. Bigger touch screen, push to open door, MotionReact (machine switches on upon getting closer to it).



The T2 dryer:

That's underwhelming in certain ways while being impressive at the same time.
All they did, literally, is take things other manufacturers do and add it. A heater to kick-start drying, enabling 4kg in 49min - done by Arcelik with its 5kg/1h cycle.
WoolDry drying is just the same drying method ELux launched with the Protex like 15 years ago.

The TQ1000 thus is everything other dryers did better than Miele, combined with what Miele did better.
I don't think it's a return to the TwinPower design, but I would guess it is an inverter heatpump.



Both are said to launch early 2025.

Post# 1213810 , Reply# 2   9/4/2024 at 09:49 (250 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
New Miele vacuum cleaners

 Miele overhauled their vacuum cleaners.

A lot appears to just be a bit of packaging and UI changes.
They changed the bags to some new ones. Some have fully digital controls and connectivity now.
Some are quieter.

But from the motor wattages listed, I don't think much about performance has actually been done.
Not that they needed to.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO henene4's LINK
Post# 1213811 , Reply# 3   9/4/2024 at 09:59 (250 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
LG washers, dryers, DWs and fridges

 Unfourtunately, I was only abled to find this in german, but google translate should help:
www.lg.com/de/newsroom/lg...
www.lg.com/de/newsroom/ifa-2024-...

They now claim up to 16kg in a 24" washer (they say 25" class, but that seems odd).
A-55% efficency.
They dryers now claim up to A+++-26% - which means I think LG has the first soon-to-be A-classed dryer in any annoucement.
Even their fridges now go down to A-25%. DWs to A-20%.

And they annouced their InstaView ovens - similar tech to the InstaView fridges.


How much of that ends up actually getting to the german market we'll see. But it certainly shows that LG has a lot of knowledge regarding high efficency compressors systems.

Post# 1213837 , Reply# 4   9/4/2024 at 16:42 (249 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Very interesting - I just wish Berlin wasn't that far away.

Given how much more efficient appliances are becoming, the new label needs an overhaul already. 😆

I see AEG also promoting washers that are 60% more efficient and dryers that are 25% more efficient.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Logixx's LINK
Post# 1213870 , Reply# 5   9/5/2024 at 03:28 (249 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Totally skipped over the A+++ -25% AEG dryer.

Given how well the 9000 series dryers have just been rated by our consumer magazine, that's gonna be one hell of a dryer to beat.

Post# 1213875 , Reply# 6   9/5/2024 at 05:06 (249 days old) by Hoover1100 (UK)        

Very interesting

I am also skeptical of the lack of full drum paddles in the W2, but until I see one in action I will reserve judgement.

Post# 1213876 , Reply# 7   9/5/2024 at 05:28 (249 days old) by stevefromsydney (London)        
More Miele Info

 Found this. Not sure if pictures are correct... Interesting all the same

CLICK HERE TO GO TO stevefromsydney's LINK
Post# 1213877 , Reply# 8   9/5/2024 at 06:05 (249 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Miele New baffled less washer drum

 combo52's profile picture
This may be their gentle answer to the Speed Queen top loader TR series where the agitator doesn’t move independently, I’m sure if they make the cycle long enough it would probably still work with most loads,time will tell. I just don’t see this cleaning very well when you put 10 pairs of work pants in it, etc.

I think it’s funny that they’re making so much hay about the great looks of this new pair at first glance It looks like a washer and dryer still.

I wonder if they’re gonna make a dryer without baffles, lol

John

Post# 1213880 , Reply# 9   9/5/2024 at 07:31 (249 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

These pictures are correct - you can barely see one of these bumps in the official press release.

Post# 1213890 , Reply# 10   9/5/2024 at 11:39 (249 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
AEG dryers

 They just showed up on the german website. MSRP is 1800€, so given the typical price cuts and AEGs sales network size, I would guess these could retail just shy of 1000€.

And, well, as expected. Certainly an inverter compressor. Surprisingly fast: 8kg in under 200min with just 1.11kWh of energy at 94% condensation efficency. Keep in mind that time is the Eco-cycle. The machine could be MUCH faster if you select a speed cycle, though that would increase usage.
They use the new ELux heatpump base design: Belt driven fan in the back middle, heat exchanger basically centered in the base, with the motor back right and compressor back left.

That compressor has to have a VERY wide speed range. The half load Eco cycle by coincidence uses the exat same amount of energy as the half load cottons irondry one, but the latter is almost 40% shorter.
The new wool cycle is much faster (just north of an hour) and uses MORE energy than the half load Eco cycle.



I was really thinking that just like with fridges, it would take a few months to a year to reach the new A-class. But I've been proofen wrong.

And honestly blown away. Heatpump tumble dryers aren't even 30 years old and we cut energy usage of clothes drying by 75%, with an arguably better result. I don't think that has been done before in appliances.

Post# 1213907 , Reply# 11   9/5/2024 at 14:43 (248 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
IIRC domestic h-axis washing machines without drum baffles isn't a new thing in Europe. A few manufacturers had such similar things on market years ago if one recalls correctly. Am sure it's in AW archives somewhere.

Since front and top loading washers are two different beasts, don't believe Miele's latest innovation has anything to do with Speed Queen. Indeed top loading washers with central beaters are largely unheard of in Europe and have been so for ages.

Miele apparently has been working on this development for some time.

dday.it/redazione/50361/miele-re...

www.applianceretailer.com...

www.miele.de/media/ex/ce/pressea...

Ever since Miele launched honeycomb drum they've been on a tear promoting how their washing machines were more gentle and so on. This latest innovation seems more of same to one's eyes. Miele doing what they've done in past, innovating and seeking to get themselves out ahead of the pack.

Remember Miele is a small family owned shop competing in a world increasingly dominated by behemoths such as Whirlpool, Haier, LG and perhaps a few others. They've got to give people reasons to purchase their often quite expensive laundry appliances.







Post# 1213908 , Reply# 12   9/5/2024 at 14:55 (248 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Post# 1213992 , Reply# 13   9/6/2024 at 14:42 (247 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
I didn't even know this existed here.

www.samsung.com/de/washer...

Post# 1213996 , Reply# 14   9/6/2024 at 15:15 (247 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
It didn't

Until today. Cause I checked Samsung's website yesterday (their press release regarding IT security in IOT devices showed this exakt machine) and it wasn't there.

First of: For the EU, the machine is HUGE. The website states a width below 70cm, the official documents say 75cm. Either way, with the height and depth it's massive.

But even further: It's damn efficient.
A 5kg load is dryed with less than a kWh, which is mediocre for a normal heat pump dryer, but great for a combination.
Further, it's "fast". Don't get me wrong, it still 8:45h to wash and dry 11kg (or just over 6h for 5.5kg). But that's FASTER than all other heat pump combos on the EU market - for more clothing with less energy.
Or, put it that way: it dries 11kg in just around 5h in a combo!


It somehow does all of that with a max spin of 1050 rpm, actually having to throttle down full speed for full loads by 100rpm.

And it's heavy and huge (150kg almost).
But if you can fit it and adapt to it a bit, the ability to toss in a load in the evening, go to sleep, switch loads in the morning, come back from work and then fold 2 loads of ready to wear laundry could be a game changer for families. It's very efficient, large enough to wash and dry most typical loads without issue and not all that slow.


No guess on prices yet. But if it does go at like 2k€, it really wouldn't be that far out there.

Post# 1214007 , Reply# 15   9/6/2024 at 17:25 (247 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Henrik, LG has just started to heavily promote their 14kg in a 600x660 footprint machines after discontinuing the large format units just before I could buy one to replace my duet.

I ended up buying the 16/9kg combo instead and as a washer it does an amazing job, as a dryer it gets hotter than the sun and takes almost 7 hours to wash and dry a 9kg load. I hadn’t wanted a combo, so I’m very happy with it as just a washer.

I’ll be heading in with a measuring tape to see how big the drum is on these new small footprint 14kg machines because it seems hard to reconcile how they make it fit, both in the cabinet and then in fitting that much laundry.

I’d really wanted the 16kg wash tower, but with the deals on the combo at $1699 vs $4k for the wash tower, I just couldn’t justify it.

Post# 1214030 , Reply# 16   9/7/2024 at 00:03 (247 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

The drums on the AIDD 13/14kg models should be about 80 odd litres.
The "normal depth" machines have drums just shy of 70l rated up to 11kg.

Given some manufacturers go as low as 1:5 filling ratios, I don't even think they'd have done much to get that extra load size.

Post# 1214557 , Reply# 17   9/12/2024 at 16:38 (241 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA)        
Drum bumps instead of paddles

 I guess delicate loads will be coddled purely through drum action, not high water levels, since standing water would cause items to float on top and not get moved.

Post# 1214658 , Reply# 18   9/13/2024 at 19:05 (240 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
One way to avoid floating clothes

 is to have a dry-wash but with a spray action.
Looking forward to seeing it in action.

The current delicates cycle has clothes floating.

Hopefully they have the spinning sorted.

I remember some initial users not being happy with the spin of the W1.
Hope that's sorted.

The heatpump washer/dryer looks interesting too. How many will end up with clogged HP units and rotted spiders after 2 years?

Hope the built in AI tells users to hot wash and to leave doors ajar.

Of the videos seen so far, Asko gets my tick in terms of looks. Very stylish.
Loved that laundry stack in the forest.




Post# 1214673 , Reply# 19   9/13/2024 at 20:33 (240 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Rich, I'm kind of hoping the T2's will fix that annoying ticking that the carbon brushes from the moisture sensor make as the drum rotates.

I really don't get how the pre T1 dryers never made a sound and somehow every T1 dryer I've come across has a rhythmic ticking. Miele's response is that its just normal, even when you demonstrate an T8000WP and a T1 side by side.

Post# 1216470 , Reply# 20   10/10/2024 at 23:54 (213 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
The dryer

 @Brisnat81

Hi Nathan, I have seen another video and the ribs don't seem to have the metal parts used to sense wetness. Perhaps the annoying tick is gone.
Perhaps its done along the front edge of the drum?


I saw a video on FB which showed the wash action of the washer.
Like an LG.
Hope the belt can stand that tossing.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO richnz's LINK
Post# 1216477 , Reply# 21   10/11/2024 at 01:25 (213 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
A video of the wash action? 😱 Please provide a link.

Post# 1216478 , Reply# 22   10/11/2024 at 03:04 (213 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
Here is the FB group I joined

 www.facebook.com/share/g/...


I also found this video where the reporter seems to self-demo the new vacuum cleaner.
Help yourself at IFA?








Post# 1216546 , Reply# 23   10/12/2024 at 10:15 (212 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Thanks for the link!

Hm, I wonder if the LG-like swing motion is supposed to the THE wash action or if it's just used for smaller loads that, maybe, aren't heavy enough to be lifted by the "Queen Cells". I don't see that working on really big loads.

Post# 1217897 , Reply# 24   11/4/2024 at 12:34 (188 days old) by MRLAUNDRY1011 (South Wales, UK)        
New AEG dryer

Saw the new aeg dryer in John Lewis - much bigger filter, new drum design and condenser position (also much bigger)

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size
Post# 1219051 , Reply# 25   11/22/2024 at 16:01 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

First T2 in somebody's hands:




?

Post# 1219054 , Reply# 26   11/22/2024 at 17:27 by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
LOL - just came here to post the video. I wonder if this is like a demo model from IFA or what. Aren't these supposed to launch in like four months?

Post# 1219057 , Reply# 27   11/22/2024 at 20:14 by richnz (New Zealand)        
Am I dreaming about an annoying fan type noise

 Like here:



?t=158

and




?t=593

Post# 1219082 , Reply# 28   11/23/2024 at 00:48 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

That noise - almost like a very fast ticking - that changes in frequency is the inverter compressor ramping up. Especially at very low speed, they sound somewhat like a fan not running completely smooth.
As with every dryer, the recorded noises are a bit exaggerated I would think - I don't think noise ratings have been out yet, but you'll hear some compressor noise with any heat pump dryer at some point.

And yes, was thinking the exact same - how did they get this?
It's on top of a Schulthess washer, so I rushed and checked the usual Swiss sites but couldn't find anything.
One store has the WQ1200 and the TQ1000 listed for sale, but at MSRP and not in stock.
Supposed release is in the first quarter of 2025 - so it could very well be that Miele *just* started series production and the very first few units got shipped somewhere somehow and somebody has some connections somewhere - at least with BSH it usually wasn't the case that internal people had much sooner access to nee models than everybody else.

Post# 1219091 , Reply# 29   11/23/2024 at 01:27 by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
He's got it as part of a product test. According to a YouTube comment, he's got it since last summer.

Post# 1222861 , Reply# 30   1/23/2025 at 05:50 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
First W2 manual online

 www.miele.de/f/de/gebrauc...

I just search for WQ1, maybe you'll find it in your local language aswell.

Post# 1222932 , Reply# 31   1/24/2025 at 14:12 by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Post# 1223098 , Reply# 32   1/27/2025 at 10:25 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Well, now look at this: Only one TQ model, but a few WQ.

There is a WQ0900 aswell aparently.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 1224293 , Reply# 33   2/13/2025 at 09:01 by bewitched (Italy)        

According to the spare parts catalog it seems that the tub of Miele WQ1000 is plastic. I am speechless. Pherhaps this is the entry level of the W2 family...

Post# 1224412 , Reply# 34   2/15/2025 at 00:26 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I saw the parts catalogue, too.

It is listed as "not a spare part" (which I'm not even certain is legal in the EU under right to repair law).



But the way the dampers are attached with a cross brace plate is what tripped me up.
The tub also looks like they typical stainless steel construction with the stamped profile.

So I just think they stopped providing those spare parts (tub, drum, bearings, seals, bearing cross and drum spider).
But that tub might/should/will probably be still stainless.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 1224414 , Reply# 35   2/15/2025 at 01:23 by richnz (New Zealand)        
Part number 20

 is where the springs attach to the outer drum at the rear and that looks like it always does on the stainless steel tub.

I don't see hoses from the water distributor to the rubber ring/gasket.
Perhaps no more water on the glass?

I don't see a steam generator (Perhaps on a future model?)
Is there a load sensor?

I still don't understand the difference between the 1000 and 1200 models.
One is longer in depth but they both have 9kg capacities and one gets to 1400rpm and the other 1600rpm.

If the wash action includes a pendulum to and fro action, won't the belt slip? Wouldn't a direct drive be a better option?

Looking forward to when it finally lands.

Post# 1224417 , Reply# 36   2/15/2025 at 03:40 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

With the belt it's just a design thing.
If you design the belt to transmit a certain force, it will do just fine. Belts might be a bit wider and sizing of the pulley might be different to get a bigger portion of it touching the belt.
But I wouldn't be surprised if it just uses adapted rpms to get better pick up on certain cycles.
But that will still be the biggest thing to see: How will it do on typical loads and how is the action designed? And how will it handle floaty items like curtains?
I'm almost certain the added Bedding cycle on the washer is down to the new wash system and due to tangling or something.

I actually wasn't sure if the WQ1200 is 9 or 10kg.
Unfortunately, the tub units don't have material numbers to compare.



Miele basically implied the steam generator was on the way out with the new plastic tub units. Those got the refresh and stand alone preironing cycles without a steam gen, so they probably cut it in general as a cost saving measure.

Also, keep in mind these start cheaper than the current TOL, so the cost had to be cut somewhere.



Something interesting is that the 2 pumps appear to be 2 completely different designs.
The drain pump part title is pretty close to some other Miele Hanning pump model codes.
But the recirc pump is an MPP part name - which points towards a Miele in house design. Perhaps inverter driven?

Post# 1224431 , Reply# 37   2/15/2025 at 11:25 by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Welk, there's this on Facebook

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Logixx's LINK
Post# 1224432 , Reply# 38   2/15/2025 at 11:47 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

If it only does the quick alternating back and forth (was that LGs swing, or which of the 6 motions was it?) on partial loads, that would take some strain off if the drive components anyway.

But with certain loads (wool, light synthetics like the typical lacy kind of curtain) I'd be very interested in what the solution is there.
Cause you can't really use quick motions like the back and forth - but you can't really do normal tumbling either as they'll float or just not get moved enough by those bumps.


There's a fair share of wool cycles that barely manage to saturate a load, and I'm kind of worried that might end up the same...

Post# 1224435 , Reply# 39   2/15/2025 at 13:23 by richnz (New Zealand)        
The WMV960/963

 had brushless drain and recirculation pumps and then the WWV980 went back to the regular type according to the online parts listing.
The WMV pumps also appeared to have an inverter board behind the pumps.

Cost cutting/supply issue or complexity management?







Post# 1224541 , Reply# 40   2/16/2025 at 16:12 by l86810 (Southend, UK)        
WQ1000

 l86810's profile picture
I noticed in the manual shared above that most cycles on the W2 models default to 3 rinses rather than 2, even for wool, delicates, and shirts.

I assume it uses much lower water levels to maintain the load's contact with the drum.

They've also removed the 'water plus' option (extra rinse remains) and also removed 'extra gentle'.

There may be few, if any, cycles where clothes float in the water. Hopefully, they've not gone too extreme


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