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Thread Number: 97615
/ Tag: Modern Dryers
Heat Pump Dryers! |
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Post# 1225241 2/23/2025 at 19:25 by peteski50  (New York) |
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Post# 1225245 , Reply# 1 2/23/2025 at 20:36 by Ultramatic (New York City) |
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| Post# 1225251 , Reply# 2 2/23/2025 at 21:18 by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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| Post# 1225254 , Reply# 3 2/23/2025 at 23:23 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
His statements should be common knowledge around these parts but it's refreshing to see repairmen having the balls to expose the truth at the expense of being shunned by the industry.
Every time I think about slimming down my collection I have to remind myself that this nonsense will soon infiltrate the states and vented dryers will no longer be an option. I'll happily continue using my reliable vintage gear until I either die or get thrown in jail for using it. | ||
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Post# 1225257 , Reply# 4 2/23/2025 at 23:59 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA (considering moving to Temple, Texas)) |
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vented dryers This is why I stick to real vented dryers. They just plain work. | ||
| Post# 1225260 , Reply# 5 2/24/2025 at 01:01 by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Reply #3
Not to mention, your HOH’s have moisture sensors on them along with only using 4500 watts. Definitely are thrifty with electrical consumption. Also dry bedding to completion without having to run the dryer through multiple cycles.
I feel like the Maytag HOH’s with the electronic control are “The dryer of tomorrow, one simple knob”, almost as though it’s 50’s Tex Avery cartoon pretending the things of tomorrow. Whenever I use my vintage machines, this song comes to mind: ?si=-VC_UZntl8m4cRa7 | ||
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Post# 1225266 , Reply# 7 2/24/2025 at 05:29 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1225271 , Reply# 8 2/24/2025 at 07:10 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Halo of heat electric dryers
Reply number nine Sean these were rated at 4800 W at 230 V if you’re running one today on 240 to 250 V, which is the average range in a single-family home the dryer is running it well over 5000 W. There’s nothing energy efficient about a 5000 W dryer with the heating element so close to the drum drying only a 6 to 10 pound load at best.
If you’re using an old dryer like this be very careful with it. There’s no thermal fuses in it and it is a fire hazard. Maytag had a lot of trouble with halo heat dryers catching fire as it was. This was one of the main reasons why they changed to a design where the heater was further removed from the clothing, like whirlpool and other companies had done for a long time. GE is the only one left with a full size dryer that has the heating element behind the drum. They get away with it pretty well because they use a dual element with four safety thermostats and they turn the heat down when it detects poor airflow, etc. but we still see problems with these dryers not the least of which When a bobby pin or something goes through the holes in the back of the drum and shorts things out. John L | ||
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Post# 1225272 , Reply# 9 2/24/2025 at 07:41 by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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Henrik, there are a couple of other things to take into account in my case:
Firstly, I pay $0.06/kWh for gas and $0.46/kWh for electricity in Southern California. So electricity is around 7x the price of gas. Therefore, using a heat pump dryer is going to cost me more than double what it costs to run my gas dryers. The situation is quite different in other parts of the US. Secondly, I think electricity in the US currently still emits around twice the amount of CO₂ per kWh compared to natural gas even though electricity has been getting better. But that figure is misleading because if I switch from a gas dryer to any type of electric dryer, the additional electricity usage is provided by fossil fuel (typically gas-powered generation) and not from renewables, as renewables are already producing all they can. Of course, heat pump dryers are the future solution (not necessarily the present for everyone) and electricity will become much greener. I'll stick with my gas dryers which work great, are extremely simple machines and produce excellent results. Whereas if we're talking about running a heat pump dryer versus a condenser dryer in a German basement, then a heat pump dryer makes much more sense than in my case. This post was last edited 02/24/2025 at 09:28 | ||
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Post# 1225275 , Reply# 11 2/24/2025 at 08:48 by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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Hi Henrik. Really good information there in your post. I enjoyed reading it. I will happily email you my gas and electricity bills if you'd like to take a look. I know you didn't mention cost, which is why I said that there are a couple of OTHER things to take into account in my case.
The problem with looking at the carbon emissions is that switching from a gas to an electric dryer is presenting ADDITIONAL load on the electricity generation. Whereas the figures for CO₂ emissions are an average for the whole thing and not representative of what your additional load will cause at that particular time. I don't know what the true CO₂ figure is for the additional load, but I'm just mentioning this. If you can enlighten me, then please do.
Yes, the disparity between the cost of gas and electricity in Southern California really is about 7 times. I am on a tiered rate but time-of-use rates are also available.
To get an idea of the cost of gas versus electricity per state, therefore deducing the savings to be had by switching from a gas dryer to a heat pump dryer, here is a graph showing the cost saving of using an induction hob versus gas by US state. Of course, gas hobs are much less efficient compared to electric hobs (at the point of use). The efficiency of induction and radiant ring is very similar:
View Full Size
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| Post# 1225277 , Reply# 13 2/24/2025 at 09:39 by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Reply #8 | ||
| Post# 1225281 , Reply# 14 2/24/2025 at 10:46 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 1225284 , Reply# 15 2/24/2025 at 10:59 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Dryer thermal fuses are like seatbelts
You hope you never need them and keeping your dryer vent clean is obviously a good idea, but that still doesn’t protect you from an operating thermostat that decides to stick closed, or a heating element that breaks in shorts to the housing, or heaven forbid a lightning strike while the dryer is running that welds the motor centrifugal switch contact the timer contact and both the high limit and operating thermostat. I have seen this happen. Nothing stops the dryer from heating at that point.
I imagine you two probably don’t wear your seatbelts either, but that’s your choice. You only need to have your house burned down once. | ||
| Post# 1225290 , Reply# 16 2/24/2025 at 11:52 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Thermal fuses are overblown for my situation. I clean my vent, maintain my equipment, and only run my washer/dryer/dishwasher when in the house. I also keep an eye/ear/nose out for failures. For those that don't maintain their equipment and run their machines when away from the house, they're useful.
I wear a seatbelt mostly due to other idiots on the road not paying attention or driving erratically, especially for the given conditions. I'm one of those weirdos that pisses everyone off by acutally driving the speed limit, leaving a nice big gap between myself and other motorists, and not letting technology interrupt my driving. None of my vehicles have anti lock brakes, only 2 have archaic airbag systems from the 90's that probably aren't reliable anymore. The lack of modern safety tech doesn't not bother me in the least. I drove vehicles from the 50's/60's/70's as daily drivers in the San Francisco bay area for many years and never had one single wreck. | ||
| Post# 1225293 , Reply# 17 2/24/2025 at 12:07 by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Thermal fuses are for those who have a ridiculously long duct run with a laundry area in the middle of the home. The longer the duct length, the more lint accumulates causing problems.
I personally think it should be against code to have a laundry area in the middle of the house with duct length X amount long. If you look at dryers that have caught fire, most of the time it’s in the middle of the home with an excessively long duct run. Longer duct runs aren’t only a fire hazard, but increase energy consumption since you have to run the dryer through another cycle or so, or set the dryness level all the way up. Even if we all have different views, we can all unanimously agree that longer duct runs are a fire hazard along with causing the dryer to run longer which uses more energy, not to mention putting more wear and tear on certain compartments. | ||
| Post# 1225294 , Reply# 18 2/24/2025 at 12:41 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 1225295 , Reply# 19 2/24/2025 at 12:50 by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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Post# 1225296 , Reply# 20 2/24/2025 at 13:08 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine) |
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Heat Pump Dryers
My next door neighbor got talked into this stacking European Whirlpool set at Lowes that they hate. Washer runs on 110 but only has a cold water inlet with an internal heater and takes forever to balance to spin. Dryer is also 110 and can take up to 3 hours to dry a heavy load of towels. They definitely have buyers remorse now.
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| Post# 1225297 , Reply# 21 2/24/2025 at 13:23 by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Reply #18
I’ve seen a couple homes out here where I live with roof vents, but all the homes I’ve lived in all had vents that went through the wall to the outside, not the roof.
Not sure if it’s just a California thing, but wouldn’t be too surprised if it’s mandated by code out here to have a short duct run when it permits to do so. If it became against code to have a laundry area with a duct run over X amount long, would save lots and lots of energy not to mention time. Certainly would reduce complaints about long dry times. Again, even if we all have different views, that’s something we all can agree on unanimously. | ||
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Post# 1225298 , Reply# 22 2/24/2025 at 13:24 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA (considering moving to Temple, Texas)) |
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heat pump dryer Not yet, because I've heard that they take forever to dry. I don't want damp clothes. | ||
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Post# 1225299 , Reply# 23 2/24/2025 at 14:16 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1225303 , Reply# 24 2/24/2025 at 15:12 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Heat pump like all condenser dryers will perform vastly better if wash is extracted well with low residual moisture content.
Above is more true for things that are heavy and or thick such as bath linen, blankets and so forth. Every day clothing or light weight bed linen such as percale and such may prove different. Good wash day habits such as washing/drying like with like also come into play. Drying say heavy bath towels with light weight clothing may confuse dryer sensors as items hold vastly different amounts of water. One may dry faster than other but since both are in same drum at same time dryer may not be able to get an accurate reading on remaining moisture content. Of course for all sorts of dryers standard user response is to simply keep opening dryer to remove what's done and leaving rest. Depending on type of dryer this is not very energy efficient as thing must now work to bring temperature back up. | ||
| Post# 1225306 , Reply# 25 2/24/2025 at 15:50 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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"Heat pump like all condenser dryers will perform vastly better if wash is extracted well with low residual moisture content."
They're definitely geared towards modern front loaders with 1200+ RPM spin cycles but even then, many complaints about long drying times are still a problem. With the combination of longer cycles on front loaders (mainly in the US with limited 120V 20 AMP circuits) combined with a longer drying cycle of a heat pump, it could literally take nearly 4 hours to wash and dry a single load of laundry. That's unacceptable to most except single people with more than average time on their hands. | ||
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Post# 1225326 , Reply# 27 2/24/2025 at 20:09 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"With the combination of longer cycles on front loaders (mainly in the US with limited 120V 20 AMP circuits)"
Wash cycles on H-axis washers sold in USA nowadays have many reasons for cycles that go one for ages, not all of it comes down to heating water. Thanks to energy regulations and other bits even domestic front loading washers must make do with less water than in past. Once you begin messing about with Sinner's Circle other parameters must change also. Consider SQ washers which don't offer heated wash cycles and IIRC may use tad bit more water. They do however have stronger mechanical wash action (like their commercial/industrial cousins) thus can bang out a load of wash in < 40 mins (IIRC). It's all relative... | ||
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Post# 1225328 , Reply# 28 2/24/2025 at 20:56 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Back to heat pump dryers
The video is interesting. Thanks for posting Pete.
It doesn’t tell an entirely accurate story. The guy is obviously made up his mind. He’s comparing a lot of small cheap dryers. There are a number of mistakes. condenser dryers generally take about 25% more energy and are slowerenergy than a vented dryer to operate they also have Trouble and very warm rooms, condensing the water , they also require more maintenance as he mentioned . The refrigeration system in a heat pump dryer is gonna be one of the most reliable components. I dare say just like refrigerators and freezers. The majority of heat pump dryers will go to the crusher with the refrigeration system working perfectly, we don’t have any trouble, recycling, refrigerators, and freezers and heat pump dryers in this country we crush them and grind them up with everything else they don’t need any special handling. Also, the refrigeration system and heat pump dryers will not likely be repaired in the field. Most manufacturers are selling the entire sealed refrigeration unit as a part so even to do it yourself or could change it if it becomes necessary and if you want to invest the money, this is the way the GE all in one combination washer dryer heat pump machine is serviced for example he just replaced the refrigeration unit. Heat pump dryers do not need to be any slower, they’ve been built this way because of cost constraints and size but there’s no reason a heat pump dryer couldn’t dry 15 pound load in an hour. They just need to use a big enough refrigeration system and I’m sure we will eventually see more powerful ones as they takeoff in the US. My biggest concern with heat pump dryers that the guy mentioned is they do have trouble clogging up the evaporator and condenser coils. Whirlpool has had a full size heat pump dryer on the market since around 2015 or 16 and we are seeing ones where we have to do quite a bit of disassemble And cleaning it takes about an hour when they get clogged up they become very slow. John L | ||
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Post# 1225351 , Reply# 30 2/25/2025 at 06:39 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Whirlpool heat pump dryers
The 27 inch 7 ft.³ American ones have nothing to do with the 24 inch French belt whirlpool heat pump dryers. They do not use the same refrigeration system at all. It’s much bigger in the US dryer.
You may remember that I bought 18 of these heat pump dryers from Eugene in Cleveland. We still have some to sell have not had any trouble with them so far this is the small French unit. | ||
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