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Thread Number: 97616
/ Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Just when you thought you’ve seen it all on marketplace |
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| Post# 1225252 , Reply# 1 2/23/2025 at 21:28 by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas) | ||
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| Post# 1225253 , Reply# 2 2/23/2025 at 21:52 by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Right! Lol. I messaged him and he claims he “accidentally put it in backwards and we rarely use it”. | ||
Post# 1225258 , Reply# 3 2/24/2025 at 00:02 by GELaundry4ever  (Nacogdoches, TX, USA (considering moving to Temple, Texas)) |
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stupid These people are stupid to be using a dishwasher. Did they check the arms? What about the filter and pump? What make is this dishwasher? | ||
| Post# 1225265 , Reply# 4 2/24/2025 at 04:01 by Agiflow (Toms River) | ||
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Whirlpool Jerome | ||
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Post# 1225273 , Reply# 5 2/24/2025 at 08:05 by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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 Ha yep. I remember opening the dishwasher at a friend's house in England in the 90s and the upper rack spray arm had been installed upside down (holes pointing down!). I think the water was just pouring out of the feed tube and nothing was going through the spray arm. So I corrected that in about 2 minutes! The upper rack was fairly full of dirty dishes at the time, so they must have still been getting washed to some extent considering they had been using it like that. But I wonder how well that Point Voyager would wash the upper rack with no feed to the upper arm. | ||
| Post# 1225279 , Reply# 6 2/24/2025 at 09:50 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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| Post# 1225288 , Reply# 7 2/24/2025 at 11:19 by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Jerome you should be able to tell by looking at the photo what type of machine it is with how much time you spend on here by now | ||
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Post# 1225289 , Reply# 8 2/24/2025 at 11:24 by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1225301 , Reply# 9 2/24/2025 at 14:41 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1225309 , Reply# 10 2/24/2025 at 16:57 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA (considering moving to Temple, Texas)) |
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dishwasher Is this a Whirlpool? I could've sworn this was very common with Whirlpool point voyager dishwashers where glasses don't get cleaned. Edit: I could've sworn it was a Whirlpool. | ||
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Post# 1225319 , Reply# 11 2/24/2025 at 18:27 by appnut (TX) |
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This is a WP PowerClean dishwasher. Maybe in my part of the country, but just about everyone I know who had one of these, the water valve eventually got restricted to debris or calcium buildup wich yielded very insufficient water fills and horrible cleaning results. These dishwashers were extremely sensitive if they didn't receive the full fill as they weerre designed to.
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Post# 1225344 , Reply# 13 2/25/2025 at 02:03 by Chetlaham (United States) |
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 @Appnut: This looks like a Point Voyager. You can tell be the smaller detergent cup size, fully rounded heating element, and shallow float.
@Agiflow: Were you advancing the timer manually to "off" as to avoid the heated dry cycle? Whirlpool dishwashers use an incremental based timer. Meaning if the timer is manually advanced without finishing an increment, it will continue advancing from where it was left off (time wise) even if the timer is manually moved to a new position. In other words if a 2 minutes per increment timer is manually rotated after 1 minute 45 seconds while sitting in an preexisting position, the timer will only hold the new position it was manually advanced into for 15 seconds.
It is for this reason I have always believed that Whirlpool should have used a "lead in increment" on their timers to off-set people manually advancing the timer forward at the end of the cycle. The only down side is you'd then have customers complaining that their dishwasher isn't doing anything for upwards of 2 minutes.
A down side to moving the timer dial around is that it opens the detergent cup and releases the rinse aid prematurely. Both creating several problems on their own. I prefer machines where the detergent cup and rinse aid are triggered electrical either via a solenoid, bimetal or wax motor. Manual cam triggers don't let the consumer make an honest mistake.
@Foraloysius: I shouldn't have to mention this (again) however God/Nature makes everyone different. Jerome is visually impaired. He genuinely can not make out the interior design of this dishwasher. And considering that a visually accustomed member mistakened a Point Voyager for a Power Clean I certainly don't expect Jerome to get it right on the first try. There is also the fact I can not mentally process half the world I perceive, so I guess the adage "nobody is perfect" holds true. | ||
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Post# 1225348 , Reply# 14 2/25/2025 at 05:00 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Well Chat, the point is that if someone mistakes a Point Voyager for a Power Clean but doesn’t know it’s a Whirlpool they must have learned little in all those hours they are spending on this site. Probably more interested in ranting than learning something. That has nothing to do with being visually impaired.
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Post# 1225349 , Reply# 15 2/25/2025 at 05:22 by Chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1225356 , Reply# 16 2/25/2025 at 07:01 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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US built dishwashers that underfill
Pretty much all dishwashers had problems with underfilling as they age the valve diaphragm wears out in the valve, all American dishwashers use the same valves so it was no more common on GE than whirlpool and Maytag, etc..
This problem is never caused by mineral buildup, it’s caused by the rubber diaphragm wearing out taking the valve apart and cleaning it will not solve the problem permanently sometimes they’ll work a little better if you take the valve apart and play with it the only real cure to replace it with a new valve or a known good valve. The good news is this problem has largely been solved, new whirlpool dishwashers now since the water load on the motor and can add more water as needed, so we’re not seeing nearly as much of this problem as we used to, just one more way that modern dishwashers with computers are actually far better than ones with the old mechanical timers. John L | ||
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Post# 1225362 , Reply# 17 2/25/2025 at 07:53 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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| Post# 1225365 , Reply# 18 2/25/2025 at 09:17 by johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
Water fill valves 
Regarding water fill valves there are no diaphragms in the RobertShaw/Invensys appliance valves.
They use a rigid plunger that can be clogged with mineral buildup. Same for their inlet screens. Irrigation valves like I have in my yard, use pilot channel diaphragm valves. Those are too big to fit into appliances. First pic is an appliance valve. Second is an irrigation style pilot valve. | ||
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Post# 1225368 , Reply# 19 2/25/2025 at 09:53 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Domestic dishwasher and washing machine inlet valves
Hi John, I don’t know where you got that picture number one I have never seen an inlet valve that looks anything like that on any domestic washer or dishwasher valve in the past 50 years.
Here is a picture of a three year-old KitchenAid dishwasher inlet valve, which is typical And is virtually identical to every other major brand, this valve is broken open because it froze this winter during a cold snap so you can see the diaphragm inside, you can also see the Robert Shaw name on the valve. This valve came from one of our customers and we are in a hard water area. Typically, we see nothing in the screens , screens will not filter out minerals. Otherwise you could’ve just have a filter to filter out hard water. It just doesn’t work that way that’s why you use chemical water softeners to remove minerals. | ||
| Post# 1225370 , Reply# 20 2/25/2025 at 10:10 by johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
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Hmmm.
I’m going to do something John, that certain people here don’t do. “I stand corrected!” Very interesting to find that these appliance valves are indeed mini versions of pilot valves. Right from the RobertShaw catalog. | ||
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Post# 1225374 , Reply# 21 2/25/2025 at 11:04 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Reply number 20, John I appreciate your integrity as people who know me on this site. They know I’m also quick to admit when I make a mistake it has happened to be sure.
I also learn things on this site nearly every day, even though I’ve been repairing appliances for over 50 years I don’t know at all by any means and I find out clever things and new solutions to problems on this site. I just wish more of the repair people And serious collectors and people who are seriously interested in appliances would come back on the site, but they’ve been driven off by the children here, there’s been discussions about how to moderate this site. It’s going to happen. John L | ||
| Post# 1225379 , Reply# 22 2/25/2025 at 11:30 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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"This problem is never caused by mineral buildup"
I replaced valves on washers and dishwashers where the screens were plugged up badly. The Maytag 906 washer I scored for free couldn't pass one drop of water through either valve as both screens were plugged solid. I ripped the screens out with pliers, hooked the lines back up, and both valves worked normally. Of course, I replaced the water valve with a genuine Maytag unit during the restoration process. | ||
| Post# 1225388 , Reply# 23 2/25/2025 at 13:19 by Agiflow (Toms River) | ||
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John when is the next time you will do a Whirlpool/Kenmore teardown ? Would like to come and see that. I want to be able to keep my 74 KMR 70 series going for a long time | ||
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Post# 1225505 , Reply# 25 2/27/2025 at 14:14 by Marky_Mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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| Post# 1225510 , Reply# 26 2/27/2025 at 16:17 by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Oh yes that’s a way to tell the age of one other than the control panel. That sump/drain cover was updated as this one has in this photo. So yeah probably a 2012-2014. Here’s the second pic of it. Like brand new still.
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Post# 1225514 , Reply# 27 2/27/2025 at 17:29 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA (considering moving to Temple, Texas)) |
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whirlpool I had a point voyager that would bake crud in the glasses. My mom hated it and wished it broke down. | ||
| Post# 1225515 , Reply# 28 2/27/2025 at 17:37 by johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
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There was a brief moment of time where cleaning in the upper rack of Point Voyagers was weak.
This seemed to correlate with the time when detergent manufacturers were eliminating phosphates as reformulating their detergents. I think PV dishwashers might’ve been harder hit in this time frame. Once the detergents were ironed out the PV dishwashers seemed to wash fine again. Maybe there was also a software change at the time? Who knows. The several PV machines I’ve encountered, worked perfectly fine. | ||
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Post# 1225518 , Reply# 29 2/27/2025 at 18:08 by Chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1225521 , Reply# 30 2/27/2025 at 18:44 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1225529 , Reply# 31 2/27/2025 at 20:04 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Early whirlpool built, tall tub dishwashers
Or PV for short, as many of you know, I had one of the first KitchenAid tall tub dishwashers. It was a little bit disappointing, especially in the corners of the upper rack, it was still far better than any dishwasher I’d ever use that had a pop-up tower in the middle of the lower rack that didn’t even begin to clean in the corners.
Whirlpool made several slight design improvements, which made them work better as other experts on the site have noted. The only main thing I would’ve changed on the point Voyager machine. It should’ve had a removable trap that was easier to get to catch large and hard objects That protected the grinder. It did have an effective trap, but you had to remove screws and do some disassembly to get to it. It tended to get blocked with in organic objects. It’s a plastic large fruit pits, broken glass, etc. to protect the grinder. I have NEVER seen a clogged grinder on a point Voyager machine it absolutely does not happen. I’m tired of people saying you have to take the machine all apart and clean the grinder screen. Yes this happens but it’s only when the grinder mechanism is broken. Otherwise, it is never necessary in the life of the machine. There are videos all over the Internet of idiots saying you have to take this machine apart, showing pictures of clogged grinder screens, and they’re not addressing the real problem. The grinder or the drive teeth are damaged. It is never necessary to clean the grinder, I have never had to do a service call on a dishwasher to clean the grinder screen. If it’s clogged, there’s something that needs to be replaced. John | ||
| Post# 1225571 , Reply# 32 2/28/2025 at 13:45 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
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| Post# 1225778 , Reply# 33 3/3/2025 at 17:17 by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Chet, can you resend it please? I just got done deleting thousands of emails!! So I probably accidentally deleted it. | ||
| Post# 1225783 , Reply# 35 3/3/2025 at 18:06 by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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So it must of been maybe like an early 2015 around the time whirlpool redesigned the Maytag dishwashers one of the last final Maytag point voyagers. Very nice dishwasher, gorgeous. | ||
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Post# 1225803 , Reply# 36 3/4/2025 at 01:38 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA (considering moving to Temple, Texas)) |
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to dadoes The point voyager my mom had came with her house and she hated it. | ||
| Post# 1225827 , Reply# 37 3/4/2025 at 10:08 by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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That doesn’t answer the question Jerome. | ||
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