Long before the Hydrowave. GE took a sharp decline in the mid 90s. Thats when the extreme cheapening and cost cutting began. They discontinued their workhorse filter flo for one of the worst washers ever released- the infamous model T. GE began redesigning their dishwasher pump seals such that they began leaking after only a few years. Every part began being cheapened in every appliance they sold. 

There were slight improvements made to what was truly horrific, however the decline in durability continued to go down hill. It truly has been steady decline for 25 years since the initial big drop to where we are today.  

Whirlpool862: I fully agree. As much as I don't like GE's modern platform, it is slightly better than the model T and Hydrowave platform which was awful to horrific. Straight vane model Ts had relatively poor turn over during wash. Clothes near the agitator would get pilled, shredded and torn while clothes facing the wash basket would just about sit there with the tub jiggling around them. The cruelest thing of all was when GE placed the words "delicate" on their single speed washer Permanent Press cycles. And had the gall to compliment it by actually making the rinse agitation LONGER  than the Cottons cycle agitation. I think this was done to compensate for their two speed models that actually went to slow speed on permanent press, however if you're going to go through the trouble of having a separate timer also change your sequence.

Gag, swallow.

🤮🤮

As much as I have a liking for single speed models, be truthful and just change the dial to read "casuals" or "light soil" like you had to do anyway 6 years down the road when the inevitable consumer complaints came in.

It is small things like this that show either dysfunctionality and incompetence going on behind the scenes or rather judging the well thought out proportional elegance of the dial the deliberate redefining of words behind the scenes to boost sales. Words only meant to gain consumer buying compliance rather conveying honest integrity. Sanitized under the words of "consumer motivation" I am sure to absolve the minds of those lying in the name of profit.  

The cork screw DAs were better but still not Whirlpool. GE latter added ribs to the wash basket which I think actually helped cleaning LOL. Before GE discontinued their transmission models, they reduced the number of vanes and brashness on their straight van agitators. The Hydrowaves were more delicate yes, but glorified power soakers when it came to large loads. The reliability and durability issues were still there over-all despite getting rid of the failure prone transmission. 

Of course once consumer word gets around, new models pop up appearing to resolve what issues the older models had.  

And yes I see it to, unlike the 90s and 2000s, modern high end GE washers actually perform worse than their BOL models. 

Despite all the ugly history I never imagined Whirlpool would fall below GE yet here we are.

Model Ts were bargain washers. They were primarily sold to builders and landlords who bought them without hesitation initially considering GE had built a relatively good reputation. In stores model Ts often had adverting literature like "fewest number of repairs" There capacity was another bragging point. People fell for it. 

Yes there are cases of model Ts lasting 20 years if you look hard enough. The dual action models with 2 speed motors cleaned acceptably and the large capacity was notable. However they had many, many premature failures out of the number sold. I remember the appliance scrap pile was full of them with every problem imaginable. A lot of them were only a few years old.    

The Upscale model Ts offered some of the best cycles like a 30 minute auto pre-soak with prewash followed by a long main wash and an automatic extra rinse. Delicate, knit, woolens, various wash and spin speed combinations. A range of wash times to choose from very heavy to extra light. There were a few models that even had a variable speed motor. Control panels were cool and fun on the TOL models.

The DA agitators and super capacity were respectable.

Cleaning was still not a thorough as a direct drive but the DAs made the most of it.

However, the TOL models still had the same suspension, transmission, snubber straps, cabinet, ect. Paint job I believe was the same too. So despite all the upscale features you had a horrendous platform underneath it.  

I heard that fabric softener just builds up in your washer and causes it to stink.

Jerome, they had Normal / Fast ; Normal / Slow ; Gentle / Slow and Gentle / Fast. Overall the control panel design (and only that) was I think fun to use.

Do you have the model # of those washers that did not spin between wash and rinse?

The Hydrowaves did not reverse the motor, they applied DC current to the windings which caused the motor to slow down.

John, even by your own admission you had to under load your model T to avoid either clothing damage or poor results. The straight vane agitator I remember could not turn anything over. Instead clothes near it would get beat up by a way to fast and way to rough agitator while everything behind that layer would just sit still. The amount if fine lint the washer produced was horrendous on top of that. Dryer vents would clog with fine fluffy lint, and given that the dryers were storage cans in terms of lint retention and having the heat source directly behind the clothes... I remember dryer condo fires that made it on the 5 oclock news, fortunately nothing news worthy at the time in my neighborhood. 

GE washers and dryers were just vengeance for landlords and tenants. I truly wish something legal could have taken place regarding their fire prone dryers and the damage they've done.  

I think GE at some point in time figured out their dryers were getting way to hot due to poor air flow design and that vents in general were getting clogged due to their tiny, poor fitting lint filters in that GE added a "drum inlet" thermostat that would shut off one of the heating elements when the heater housing assembly became to hot. I hated it, because it would often trip one of the elements early in the cycle and not come back on resulting in half the drying power and take more time to dry. GE to this day brags about being able vent 120 feet, however I think that is in part if not entirely due to the drum inlet stat which is just compensating for poor air volume movement in GE dryers that was never designed out of them. 

This of course radically worsened by the model Ts being fine lint generators.  

Oh yahhh, I hated the companion dryer too. The cottons cycle would sear clothes, it got way to hot despite the drum inlet stat. On Permanent press the dryer would shut off with the clothes still damp. Heat was fine, but you had to reset the cycle once or twice, it was like the timer was running continuously. The exhaust was clean and unobstructed.

The only reason why you find so many model Ts in rental properties is because GE had a very strong reputation prior. They're pre model T appliances were workhorses with some of the fewest warranty calls as a whole and frequent longevity of 15-30 years. So property management gobbled up the trash that came they're way in the 90s and 2000s. However around me that changed in the late 2000s, several major properties around me switched to Whirlpool around that time period. Today you're more likely to find Frigidaire and Whirlpool appliances in rentals then 30 years ago where GE was hands down the no brainier.      

John, I am sorry you're annoyed at the messenger and not with whom it belongs.

Dan, the model Ts were horrible even when loaded reasonably. Unless you mean the machine had to be half loaded to get at least descent turn over. Which just dilutes detergent which ironically was the reason for the re-design to reduce the amount of water between the inner and outter tubs while gaining wash basket capacity. So what changed? Nothing.  

Whats worse is that on their lower end models GE went through the trouble of molding a separate basket and outer tub even though the balance ring, collar, tub cap and outter tub rim was identical in size to their super capacity machines. In other words GE could've stuck a super capacity basket and outer tub in their low end machines at no added cost. I hate when manufacturers go through the trouble and expense of making separate parts for their BOL models just so they can "motivate" consumers into buying a more expensive high end machine.

The appliance scrap piles at apartment complexes I saw in the 2000s absolutely corroborate the fact Model Ts only lasted a few years. Any appliance re-sell will tell you they will avoid selling a used model T. Model Ts are so fragile you can even see them malfunctioning on a large number of Youtube videos featuring them. 

Here is just one example. The washer is relatively new and it just happens to have a major component glitch on a random cycle. Nothing novel or abnormal for a model T. Not weird either, every major and minor component shamelessly lacks self possession in these washer. Had it not corrected itself the motor's overload would've tripped out, cycle progressed like nothing  happened and then the machine would magically work fine on the next cycle until the next component randomly glitches out. Wash, rinse repeat until the machine has a permanent breakdown. You can't make this stuff up. 

See link at 15:05 

Dan, thank you for telling it like it is. I fully agree and it is a breath of fresh air seeing someone like yourself speak honestly about these abominations instead of being flat out disingenuous. I am not calling anyone out in particular, just that some need to take off their rose colored glasses and see that these washers were the beginning of the end of the appliance industry.  

Jerome, the GE dishwashers from the mid 90 early 2000s were absolutely horrific from leaking rinse aid dispenser that triggered a recall to timers that died at the start of the cycle causing the drain solenoid to melt requiring the whole machine to be chucked to not enough water in the absence of any fine filtration to adequately wash and carry away food soil to drain valves that started leaking copiously after 1 year to main seals that gave out after a few years to motors the stalled and seized, to food choppers that broke off by default, to not enough holes in the wash arm to literally food particles that would get stuck in between the popup tower causing part of it to remain up at the end of the cycle such that you could not pull the lower rack out... it is just the beginning. I could write a rich dissertation about everything that was wrong with GE's dishwashers in the mid 90s. Absolutely GE's worst product ever.   

But that is veering off from the topic of this thread.      

GE dryers were about as bad as their washers performance wise. They could not move air.     

John, it is not loopy when you take into account that GE dishwashers between 1983 and 1994 were some of the longest lasting and most reliable dishwashers ever made. Around this time GE was extremely serious about building a competitive dishwasher that their engineering, design and quality control centered around creating a respectable product.

By the time 1997 came around GE cheapened ever aspect of their dishwashers to the point they were either leaking water, rinse aid, detergent, or just dropping like flies. The water charge per fill dropped as well as the number of water change outs. What was already iffy cleaning due to the lack of a fine filter became much worse.   

I've said it before- around the mid 90s GE put a plan into action to extract the remaining wealth out of their reputation.

Only high end models had the soil filter. There were many, many low, mid and high mid models without it. It was not until around 2007 that GE started phasing self cleaning fine filters into their MOL and BOL machines.

Around ~2002 forward things did start improving somewhat for their dishwashers, but they still were not what the 1983-1994 run was.

The aux drain pump was the best thing ever done for GE dishwashers in that it removed several quarts of water from the sump, boot and pump housing. It allowed those high end models to go from 3 to two final rinses without sacrificing anything, on the contrary it was an improvement.

To prove a point it was silly how they literally used a low voltage DC children's toy motor in the WD21X10101 cycle sequencer, fortunately that was one immature idea that did not backfire unlike all the others.   

GSD1100 M or N or L was a high end model in 1995. Below that you had 400, 450, 500, 600, 640, 800, 900, 940, 1000 ect all without fine filters that I would class as BOL, MOL and entry TOL. The ones below 500 were porcelain Hotpoints sold under the GE name until about 1992 ish before discontinuation.  

So I stand behind what I said, filters were only present on high end models. It would be nice if at least the 900 had it but nope.  

Part of the straining might be cavitation. I noticed that less when I would fill my 1998 BOL GE with over 2 gallons of water.

The original GE pumps were designed around a wide sump and 2.5+ gallon water charge.

Spraying never stopped? Sounds like a bad drain flapper.

Yup- you described the sounds spot on! Detergent cup opening was a loud thud as well as the rinse aid dispenser triggering. 

I wish Kenmore never bothered with GE and just offered a low end Whirlpool Power Clean Filter Module.

John, see reply 54.

The dishwashers I'm defending are between 1983 and 1994.

Being able to point out a specific period of GE's success isn't turning "turn on always something exciting" due to your inability to see grey scale or think outside of binary black and white reasoning.  

Also saying there is no difference between a 55 year run of GE dishwashers then go on to contradict yourself saying they've gotten better since the plastisol days tells me you have very limited experience servicing GE along with your protracted black and white perception of the world.

Dan, best synopsis of the major brands I have ever read on here. Spot on! You said what I've been trying to say all along just not as eloquently written or on point as you just did.

My honest opinion? Bring back the direct drive but with precision manufacturing. It is the only washer that does speed, serious washing, serious rinsing and longevity in one machine.

I'd have taken that washer over a model T any day. While the reliability and longevity were short lived, in that time it could still clean, rinse, and spin clothes without all the extra BS being the frosting on the cake. I'd rather have a short lived washer that does its job, then an ever shorter lived washer that can't even turn over a load.

If everyone were like me GE would've probably redesigned the seals, transmission and added a metal outer tub producing what would be a Speed Queen today. 

I wouldn't be angry at the discontinuation of the filter flo because GE would've actually had a realistic product.    

Hydro-waves and model Ts had very quiet spins, if you disconnected the drain pump.

Sometimes I wonder how quiet Model Ts might have been if they used a direct drive pump driven by the main drive motor.  

Don you know the number or have a link to the lawsuit?

Is this it? I don't have a subscription to the NY times. What was in the article? 

Says I need a subscription in order to read.

Copy and Paste it in an email and send it over to me. I'll opine.

Jerome, turn up your volume and have a listen to this. The agitator almost sounds loose/wobbly like its going to break at any moment. There is some roll over because the washer is under loaded. 

How society let such a joke of a consumer scam slide is beyond sad. 

I bet someone somewhere at GE was probably proud of this toy of washer LOL. 

Tub straps breaking were common for model Ts. Like super common. I'm not exactly sure what caused it but it was either a) how the whole inner and outer tub shook violently tugging away at them until they broke. b) Tub straps took very severe stretching if the load was off balance. c) both a and b.

No other washer tears its dampers during an off balance load let alone normal agitation.  

You'd think they'd added an off balance switch to prevent this, but nope. There was so much GE didn't take into account designing and building the model T. Its like the design was drawn up in a day, on the back of a napkin.

I had a model T that went off balance three times (probably a resonant condition more than anything else) and the third time around cracked the upper tub ring. Interestingly the load didn't look imbalanced those two out of three times. No lump, no clothes all on one side.  The sound a model T makes slamming into the cabinet sounds like rapid fire explosions in acceleration, absolutely the scariest and most brutal sound I've heard. There is also the issue that the tub accelerates way to fast. An imbalanced load quickly gets worse and worse as there is nothing to prevent the basket from accelerating to full speed or before there is time to wring water out reducing the weight and impact if the lumped up items. 

There are plenty of internet pictures over the years of model T and hydro-waves practically exploded. To say these washer have any advantage in the spin cycle is a morbid lie. Model T are the most likely washer to go off balance and the end result is way worse than any filter flo. 

Speed Queen on the other hand just thuds into the cabinet during an imbalance. It does not reach full spin in a few seconds and the washer does self destruct. It does not even move from first hand experience.

Model Ts out of all washers should've had an imbalance censor. And a looser clutch. 

Whirlpool862:  The Model Ts and HydroWaves didn’t have balance sensors, and most older washers didn’t except for the older belt driven Whirlpools.

Where exactly does the brick go?

What does it look like?

The most-immediate family member was my grandma having one and after a repair to her's, which had a left-opening lid, was her saying something about the brick in it...

Years later, was a visit to my uncle in Orinda, CA who had one of the last filter-floss, mated with a newer Amana dryer...

-- Dave

Jerome, here is some ear candy. A GE filter flo with the back cardboard cover removed while the dryer runs with the vent hose disconnected. Looks like some laundry room cleaning/maintenance. The video absolutely gets me, the washer is so beautiful inside.

Jerome, I know how you feel! The longing and the bereavement is overwhelmingly painful. That video in particular gets me, it just hits the all the right buttons for me.

That set is a true perfect workhorse. Harmonious sound, excellent cleaning, great cycles, clothing care, beautiful control panel, top notch quality control, built with care, no nonsense, fast cycles, easy service and long life. That washer would be absolutely ideal for me. It was peak GE, their magnum opus of all time. 

A GE DDE5300BAL or equivalent electric dryer would be my perfect match to the washer. 

GE filter flo was the only washer that could provide total fabric care with a single speed motor. GE should have just stuck with a single speed clutch on all models.

I personally believe GE just no longer cared other than extracting the remaining wealth out of their reputation. There are many, many companies that do this. Guys come in, take all the money, then run. Easy way of becoming rich and/or retiring comfortably. 

Regarding the gentle power agitator, there was nothing gentle about it. GE managed to produce a wash system that for the level of clothing wear inflicted produced sub par cleaning. Kenmores did less damage despite being called shredmore with superior cleaning in every regard. 

Can Robert delete Post# 1230147 , Reply# 136   4/30/2025 at 6:54 pm and subsequent reply Post# 1230152 , Reply# 137   4/30/2025 at 8:14pm ? 

Can forum users report the posts in question so Robert is aware? 

Can forum users Email Robert so he knows to look at the posts in question?

My concern is that some unhinged person or online troll could take those comments seriously.

Everyone please remember that these forums are open the public and are family orientated in nature. 

Thank You

Private message me Robert's Email if you've got it.