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Thread Number: 97932
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
When did Maytag start to go bad? |
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Post# 1228860 , Reply# 1 4/15/2025 at 03:53 by Chetlaham  (United States) |
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 As much as I don't want to admit it, I agree.
My honest opinion is that Maytag should have never produced single Amana/Performa/Herrin/ect washer and stuck with the dependable care. The only thing is, with time as energy regs and as more consumers gravitated toward front loaders sales of the DC would have begun to shrink to the point Maytag would probably have found it cheaper to liquidate. The other scenario would have been Maytag competing directly with Alliance for commercial sales but with the DC having less capacity than a Speed Queen, its also iffy on how well they would have done. Especially now with front loads taking over the commercial and OPL market.
In a lucid world people would have bought more and more dependable cares based on their longevity and improving wash performance, unfortunately when everyone walked buy their clear front panels casually in the 90s it was the beginning of the end.
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| Post# 1228862 , Reply# 2 4/15/2025 at 04:28 by agiflow (Toms River) | ||
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Yeah but why did the market go with front loaders ? It was all the push for the HE craze. I don't believe it was a natural progression. | ||
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Post# 1228887 , Reply# 4 4/15/2025 at 11:12 by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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2 Words: Daniel Krumm
The poor decisions Tom mentions were only some of Krumm's bright ideas. He was a CEO in the modern sense: product, history, reputation, people, all expendable if it meant short term profit and happy shareholders.
Fred II had battled cancer for almost 2 years when he passed in '62, but he had set the company up for success after his passing, and there was new product in the pipeline. Higdon wasn't an idea man, but didn't make too big a mess of things in transition period. But Krumm....here's Harvard Business School's take: "Krumm is credited with converting Maytag from a small specialty appliance concern into a broad-scale international operation. Through several acquisitions, Krumm built Maytag into one of the world’s top 4 appliance manufacturers while achieving stellar financial returns." | ||
| Post# 1228895 , Reply# 6 4/15/2025 at 12:56 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
I can definitely say that one of Maytag's biggest mistakes was buying Hoover. But I'll also say that while I still blame Maytag for ruining Hoover, I do have more respect for the Hoovers they've made. I mean there's alot of Hoovers nowadays that I don't personally care about cause of how cheap they've gotten like it's competition whereas the ones that were built by Maytag were better made. In fact my all time favorite Hoover vacuum was made by Maytag. Also believe it or not, my favorite Maytag washers and dryers happens to be a Neptune. As for Neptunes being unreliable and terrible, I'd disagree. I'd say that honor goes to Whirlpool because my brother's Maytag top loader just bit the dust, not only it was a terrible cleaning machine but it also didn't even last five years. My old Neptune set lasted for a good long while, I do miss them and sometimes wished I could've gotten them fixed because they were great. My grandfather's Neptune stackable lasted 20 years with no issues until the cabin flooded and got accidently thrown away but his Performa dryer at his house is still going today with no issues yet. Both are great machines as well but his Whirlpool built Maytag top loader is trash and wish I could replace it today. Whirlpool at one point built I think the best machines for Maytag but nowadays it's looking like Whirlpool may suffer the same fate as Maytag later down the road if they don't get their head straight.
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Post# 1228907 , Reply# 8 4/15/2025 at 15:37 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine) |
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Maytag started to go down after my 1984 Maytag 511 washer and 410 dryer were built and still going strong and run just like they came out of the box new. Those are REAL Maytags. The next generation of the fast stroke washers with funky looking panels had alot more problems and then they added their name on other crap appliances and I could see buying a Maytag was not buying quality anymore, but just the name.
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Post# 1228909 , Reply# 9 4/15/2025 at 15:59 by RP2813 (Sannazay) |
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 OK, so who really made the Maytag branded refrigerators? My sister has a "Wide-By-Side" Maytag that has served her well. She'll be replacing it soon, as she's remodeling her kitchen. One of the guys working for her expressed interest in the fridge, advising that his wife would probably like it. I think the design is a Maytag exclusive, but certainly Maytag wasn't the manufacturer. It couldn't have been Whirlpool, so who was it? Amana maybe? | ||
| Post# 1228913 , Reply# 10 4/15/2025 at 16:26 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
I think Maytag refrigerators were made by Norge after they acquired them in 1986. Not sure if Maytag used the Amana design when they acquired them in 2001. I heard the Norge refrigerators were decently made, at least by todays standards. They weren't up to Seeger/International Harvester standards that lasted 50+ years without a repair but good for their time.
"Norge continued to produce the Rollator rotary compressors under the Maytag name..." refresearch.com/the-norge-rollat... | ||
| Post# 1228916 , Reply# 11 4/15/2025 at 16:46 by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) | ||
Wide by side was Magic Chef | ||
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Post# 1228940 , Reply# 12 4/16/2025 at 02:22 by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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Some friends got a Maytag SxS refrigerator in the early 90's, and had a good bit of trouble with it. They finally tired of having it fixed after 6 or 7 years, and got a Kenmore. I was under the impression it was an Admiral design. | ||
| Post# 1228945 , Reply# 13 4/16/2025 at 05:52 by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) | ||
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I don't think Whirlpool saved Maytag
Whirlpool just slapped the Maytag label on Whirlpool products. All of the Maytag manufacturing was shut down. Maybe WP could have kept Newton open for DC production for laundromats and consumers who wanted the machine but chose not to. To be truthful, I think Whirlpool should give up some of their labels and let other manufacturers have them, perhaps this would be considered antitrust?
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Post# 1229022 , Reply# 15 4/16/2025 at 17:54 by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions) |
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Post# 1229032 , Reply# 16 4/16/2025 at 19:44 by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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As mentioned above, the doors on the one my friends Fred and Donna had didn't line up right either. | ||
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Post# 1229033 , Reply# 17 4/16/2025 at 20:25 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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 The worst washer Maytag has made was the Neptune TL, those things are pretty much extinct now.I have a Neptune TL 6800, bought new on clearance via eBay from an outfit in New Jersey in May 2008 (serial is Dec 2005) for a whopping $325 including shipping to TX. The clutch/pulley did fail in 6 months. I was using it as my primary machine at the time. Repaired under warranty. It went to non-primary status at that point. The replacement clutch exhibited flakiness after some years, I don't recall how long. I pulled it, cleaned/relubed the needle bearings, it has been OK since. It works OK on most loads and performs nicely on such, but has may exhibit trouble rolling loads (both small and large) of lighter-weight fabrics. I typically use it for yardwork clothes and bulky items, sometimes briefs and casual/cargo shorts. -- Edit to change the clothing item order in the last sentence to hopefully clarify for Tom. :-) This post was last edited 04/16/2025 at 23:12 | ||
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Post# 1229040 , Reply# 18 4/16/2025 at 22:01 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
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They make cargo briefs now? Are they for large packages? Are they sold at big box stores? | ||
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Post# 1229048 , Reply# 19 4/17/2025 at 07:26 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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When did Maytag start to go downhill?
All modern Maytag refrigerators were made by admiral which Maytag had purchased, the wide by side originally was an admiral you can tell the admirals they had two horizontal controls that went back-and-forth at the top of the refrigerator section.
Once Maytag ditched the admiral plant in Galesburg, Illinois, and went to production in Mexico. They had also purchased Amana by this time and the later wide by side Was made by Amana It was a much better unit. It had the controls group together on the interior divider wall, two dials. The Norge Rollator compressor disappeared by the 1950s. Maytag never had such a compressor. Mechanically Maytag’s best dependable care washers were the 1970s, they started to cheapen them by the early 80s even things like that motor pulley that went bad on your washer was an example of them cheapening things, but some things got better. They got away from the Westinghouse motors which hurt the 70s machines a lot and the cheap Robert Shaw inlet valves from the 70s. Maytag never had a greatly reliable clothes dryer. They were only ever average at best, but once they bought Norge and started using that Norge performer dryer, that thing was just junk. The only thing you can say for is it worked for a while, it was very slow drying because of the low wattage or low BTUs, but it would not sustain heavy use or lots of repairs. The Maytag Neptune, top loader was an interesting machine, but never should have been built, plastic gears, driving the impellers underwater, and a plastic transmission filled with Weson oil that should never have seen the Maytag name. The Maytag Neptune front loader was a flawed design and like all Maytag appliances when they first introduced them they had a lot of problems, but they did work a lot of the bugs out of it, but it could never get past the point of its tangling problems in the lack of a window it was never gonna be the preferred design for a good front loading washer. John L | ||
| Post# 1229060 , Reply# 20 4/17/2025 at 10:28 by WoodJack99 (Virginia, USA) | ||
IMO,
The beginning of the end was 1989/90 when they switched from the long-stroke Pitman transmission to the short-stroke orbital one. That marked the first major "cheapening" of the machines. Although these were still really decent machines up until the late 90s or so. Just not quite the *legendary* Maytags of the 60s, 70s, and 80s. When they switched from the center-dial panel to the new design in 1980, I think some of the parts were cheapened a bit as well. For example, when setting my 85 A506, the sound of the switches is "thinner" and less of a "thunk" than my 75 A107. And the dial doesn't quite have that same heavy metallic sound as that of the latter. So you could say this was the VERY beginning of the decline. But IMO, the true beginning was the introduction of the orbital trans. The mid 90s white panel Dependable Care machines were the last "true" Maytags IMO. So the company was declining well before the buyout. | ||
| Post# 1229072 , Reply# 21 4/17/2025 at 13:46 by Whirlpool862 (Columbus, OH) | ||
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You’re very lucky to have a still working top loading Neptun The Maytag Neptune top load washers are rarely found to be working, and almost every top loading Neptune that’s even found is broken. Those were horribly made machines. | ||
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Post# 1229118 , Reply# 23 4/17/2025 at 20:04 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA (considering moving to Temple, Texas)) |
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direct drive I think Maytag would've been better off with the direct drive design. | ||
| Post# 1229130 , Reply# 24 4/17/2025 at 22:13 by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) | ||
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It does beg the question... | ||
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Post# 1229138 , Reply# 25 4/18/2025 at 06:23 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Whirlpool saved the Maytag name | ||
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Post# 1229220 , Reply# 27 4/18/2025 at 20:49 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Many kenmore machines were built by Whirlpool, older ones were direct drive, newer ones were Whirlpool and VMAX.I'm sure you're aware that Whirlpool was primary supplier of Kenmore laundry beginning in the 1950s, if not the late 1940s. I recall there have been three primary toploader mechanical designs through the years ... classic belt-drive (ending in 1986), direct-drive (1981-2012), VMW/VMAX 2010-current). Momentary diversions into the Calypso and Fisher & Paykel's floating basket. ------------------------------------------- BTW, this board as you see it has been in existence since Sept 2004. May 2001 to Sept 2004 there was a different site/layout known as "Classic Appliances" with the discussion board being "Applianceville." Robert/Unimatic1140 is one of the primary collectors, and is a programmer who developed both of them. It was on Yahoo Clubs and Yahoo Groups prior to that. This thread has some photos of Classic Appliances and Applianceville board. This link is a history of the Applianceville board. | ||
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Post# 1229226 , Reply# 28 4/18/2025 at 22:11 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Whirlpool supplied all of Sears washing machines
Since 1926 it wasn’t till the 80s that Sears started to get some Frigidaire built machines and later some LG and Samsung toward the end of Sears as they were going out of business.
Whirlpool and Sears grew together. Series became the biggest seller of washing machines in the country for many decades and whirlpool the overall largest manufacturer because of all the serious business between the two of them there was enough money for great innovation, great quality along with great prices. John L | ||
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Post# 1229232 , Reply# 29 4/18/2025 at 22:46 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 1229348 , Reply# 30 4/20/2025 at 14:16 by Whirlpool862 (Columbus, OH) | ||
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Many kenmore was made by Whirlpool Many of them were direct drive and later VMW. Towards the end of Sears, Kenmore washers used the VMW and VMAX platforms. | ||
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Post# 1229372 , Reply# 31 4/20/2025 at 16:31 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Whirlpool862: Many of them were direct drive and later VMW. Towards the end of Sears, Kenmore washers used the VMW and VMAX platforms.You don't consider the years of classic belt-drive toploaders produced by Whirlpool beginning from the late 1940s until introduction of direct-drive in late 1981 to be a valid part of the Whirlpool/Kenmore relationship? | ||
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Post# 1229388 , Reply# 32 4/20/2025 at 20:46 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Whirlpool and Sears Roebuck laundry appliances | ||
| Post# 1229446 , Reply# 33 4/21/2025 at 13:30 by Whirlpool862 (Columbus, OH) | ||
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I know there were some older kenmores using the belt drive system. Kenmore was one of the first brands to ever be manufactured by whirlpool (except Whirlpool itself). The Whirlpool belt drives were great machines (not referring to VMWs) | ||
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Post# 1229451 , Reply# 34 4/21/2025 at 13:40 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"Upton Machine Company, which eventually became Whirlpool, sold its first washing machines to Sears in 1916. Sears later took a stake in the appliance company in 1921."
Above just to be clear explains that Sears wasn't just getting appliances from WP, they owned a percentage of the company and thus had far deeper ties. In some ways and or instances Sears pretty much had very good deals with WP and or called shots. Sears would have exclusive rights to various designs or whatever for appliances that came from WP so "Kenmore" or whoever brand got new technology before WP itself launched their own. Sears (IIRC) moved more WP appliances than the company itself for most of history of their relationship. When "one out of three American homes have Kenmore appliances" guess who sold and serviced those units? CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK | ||
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Post# 1229465 , Reply# 35 4/21/2025 at 16:31 by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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The story of the WP/Sears relationship is actually quite interesting. (Films are in the queue!) The CNBC link is a little misleading; Sears never really owned part of WP, but they did agree to a mutually-beneficial business relationship.
In 1921, Sears approached Upton Machine for a large order of washers, and loaned Upton the money for factory expansion to satisfy the order. The market dropped out as the construction was nearing completion, and Sears cancelled, leaving Upton holding the bag. Both agreed, on a handshake, that when things improved, Sears would come back for that order, and regarding the oustanding loan, the amount Upton owed would be paid in company stock (this is the so-called "investment"). Both kept their word, and once production resumed some years later, it's said Upton suggested to Sears that they be their sole supplier of washing equipment. A great deal for them both. | ||
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Post# 1229515 , Reply# 36 4/21/2025 at 23:04 by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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Cory, I was told by someone who owned and operated a Sears Catalog Merchant store that Sears owned controlling interest in Whirlpool, and lesser amounts of several other suppliers. This was in 1976, when I worked part time for her. | ||
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Post# 1229551 , Reply# 37 4/22/2025 at 11:49 by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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Reply #36: If that's true, I'd love to see some proof, and I do mean that in the most earnest way.
Google is silent on the matter, but I'd think it would be disclosed in an annual report some place, especially if controlling interest. Adding to the complication was WP's mergers and acquisitions, some that could be seen as anti-competitive with Sears' investment. I'll do a little digging; I'm curious, too. | ||
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Post# 1229607 , Reply# 38 4/22/2025 at 23:10 by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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Cory, I'm only going by what Faye told me, and of course she could have been mistaken. However, I also remember reading somewhere about Sears divesting their stock in Whirlpool over a period of time. | ||
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Post# 1229641 , Reply# 39 4/23/2025 at 12:39 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Didn't save link to information but one also distinctly recall reading that at one point yes, Sears did own stock in Whirlpool, thus one's previous comments.
Sears and "Upton Machine Company" through various incarnations of Whirlpool names were together for near or over 100 years. For most of that time Sears had considerable say in what seems to one above and beyond any handshake agreement in workings of Whirlpool. | ||
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Post# 1229659 , Reply# 40 4/23/2025 at 16:49 by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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"seems to one above and beyond any handshake agreement in workings of Whirlpool"
That struck me as unusual, too. Though those are the words out of the Sears' representatives mouth when he awarded the Sears Excellence Award to the St. Joe division in 1965. And it was repeated prior by Elisha Gray, and years later in Whirlpool's corporate history during their silver anniversary. A PR move? I don't know. Hard to believe such a thing in today's world. I was moving some boxes yesterday and did come upon a few decades worth of WP annual reports. In 1964, they offered an additional 731,747 shares of common stock. RCA sold off and held less than 1%. Sears, Roebuck and Co maintained their 4.6% share, with the Sears group itself holding a total of 7.5% of Whirlpool Corp. I tried to back-track, but little was mentioned in prior years. Adding to search difficulty, they were technically the 1900 Corp before 1950, and the modern internet doesn't play nice with search queries the way it once did. It's a fascinating, but guarded topic. Some sources suggest significant Sears divestiture in the early '50s due to anti-trust concerns. This makes sense considering the number of government contracts WP took on throughout the 1950's and 60's. The answers are out there, I'm just not sure they're on the internet. | ||
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Post# 1229661 , Reply# 41 4/23/2025 at 17:20 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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