Thread Number: 9946
Do modern washers count cycles?
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Post# 183321   1/15/2007 at 13:10 (4,452 days old) by jwilson00 ()        

After speaking with bosch (washer doing some serious banging) about the extra free warranty and telling the difference between a manufacturing fault and general wear and tear on the appliance, the answer i got was that normal dosmestic use was 5 washes a week (i do around 10-15) so i got the answer that if the washer completely packs up (and they said that they would only come out if the washer is un-usable) it will be assesed if its my fault (using it to often) or their fault. So how can they tell if its wear and tear or manufacturing fault? is it possible that modern electronic washers count the amount of cycles going through the machine or is it based on how other parts of the machine are looking?.

Post# 183323 , Reply# 1   1/15/2007 at 13:17 (4,452 days old) by mrx ()        

They'd have serious difficulty holding that one up in court!
I don't think there's a legal definition of "domestic use" other than you're not using it for commercial purposes.

Post# 183391 , Reply# 2   1/15/2007 at 18:50 (4,451 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
Using it too frequently?

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Another case of "blame the victim". I think today's business have a great deal of nerve. Give us your money, deal with whatever POS we hand you, shut up, an LIKE it too.

You know, my grandmother had the attitude that most products were an attempt to part you from your money. Sadly, I am beginning to see it her way. She was a minimalist and appreciated every screw, nail and spool of thread she owned.

I am hoping someone eventually sues their @$$es off for failure to honor a warrany and wins.

IMHO the purpose of business is not only to provide excellent products and service but to provide employment and give back to the community. Perhaps we DO need to look at more than earnings-per-share, maket-share gained and strict financial windfall. Somehow social respoansibility needs to be a rating category, methinks.

Too bad so many indivisuals and companies are like horses with blinders. They see what they want to see and the hell with the rest of the "picture".

Post# 183398 , Reply# 3   1/15/2007 at 19:12 (4,451 days old) by sudsmaster (East of SF, West of Eden, California)        

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The Neptune 7500 washer counts cycles... mine got reset when the main control board was replaced. From the count, it looked like I was averaging six to eight cycles a week, as I recall. Computer controls lend themselves to counting things - it's very easy to design and takes almost no additional system resources. But I think it's a poor way to judge usage; overloading and other forms of abuse probably are more important to a washer's ultimate lifespan. Of course if one is running a laundry service out of the home, then the number of cycles might be a factor.

Post# 183403 , Reply# 4   1/15/2007 at 19:30 (4,451 days old) by bearpeter ()        
Let them try!!!

and show in a court of law that you were using your appliance in a commercial way!!!! Innocent until proven guilty! Who are they to say what is domestic use or commercial? I have my machine doing on average, 2 cycles a day. There are 2 of us in the household and we wash when we need to. And let anyone tell me how many times I should use my machine and I will tell them to f**k off!
Pardon the french!

Post# 183412 , Reply# 5   1/15/2007 at 19:41 (4,451 days old) by exploder3211 ()        

Thats nuts... Why would they care if you used the machienes.. BEfore one knows it, the washers will have a car like warranty 3 years or 2200 loads unlimited warranty... Yeesh

Post# 183467 , Reply# 6   1/15/2007 at 22:41 (4,451 days old) by washoholic (San Antonio, TX)        
A flaw in the counting system

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Most electronic appliances do count the cycles, but actually they only count the number of times one pushes the start/pause button and each is counted as a cycle. They donít count completed cycles. As Rich said, ďThe Neptune 7500 washer counts cycles.Ē My Neptune 7500 dryer has that same counter and at the end of the dry cycle I like to put the dryer on air, open the door, take out one item, restart the dryer to keep the clothes tumbling to prevent wrinkling, fold it/hang it up, and do the same until the dryer is empty. A few years ago, I checked and it had over 6,000 cycles on it which probably means Iíve dried over 6,000 items; not counting the first time I push start button to start the original cycle, but I really havenít done 6,000 cycles. Most washers and dryer also count each time the user pauses and re-starts the cycle as a separate cycle.

Post# 183469 , Reply# 7   1/15/2007 at 23:10 (4,451 days old) by dadoes (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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My F&P IWL12 may have a cycle counter on a diagnostic screen that I haven't yet found. It does report the number of cycles since the last detected fault code and in which phase of the "faulted" cycle it occurred.

Post# 183480 , Reply# 8   1/16/2007 at 00:31 (4,451 days old) by sudsmaster (East of SF, West of Eden, California)        

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That makes sense to me, since the cycle count seemed a bit high to me.

Fortunately Maytag has never commented on the number of cycles the machine has experienced when it came to warranty repairs. But I do recall that part of the "Extended Service Agreement" was that the machine would not be put into commercial use.

Post# 183484 , Reply# 9   1/16/2007 at 01:04 (4,451 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
How many cycles is too many?

volvoguy87's profile picture
I think that companies may use cycle counters in conjunction with an acceptable (to them) usage rate to determine machine use. In my experience, 2 cycles per week is not enough. I could overload my washer and dryer and keep the cycle count down, but that wears the mechanical components of my machinary, doesn't clean my laundry well, and causes my clothes to wear out faster. Also, a large family will do lots more wash per week than a small family, or even a single person household. If companies are relying on cycle counters to determine if the machine was used appropriately, I think it means that they (the laundry equipment manufacturing companies) know they are building a shoddy product and will only garuntee their products for the lightest use possible. I define household use as use in my household. I take good care of my equipment, but I do make good use of it regularly, like any household would. If no one can build machinary that can stand up to moderate to heavy residential use, please say so, don't rely on sneaky cycle counting to evaluate my housekeeping. I parted with money to buy my macines and I expect them to perform the tasks after which they are named, if they consistently fail to do that, then I blame the company who designed and built them.

I love vintage machinary, so simple, so reliable, so easily repaired, no cycle counting, and a garuntee doesn't matter at this point! In the past companies like Maytag had garuntees to lure in the customers. The garuntee wasn't a liability because the machines were designed to take the abuse of household use. Now, with quality drowning in the toilet, a garuntee is a huge liability for the company, a necessity for the customer, and a royal pain-in-the-(insert region here) for everybody involved.

While many things are better now than they were in the past, progress is not perfection,

Post# 183500 , Reply# 10   1/16/2007 at 05:17 (4,451 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
well if you own a Miele

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Miele will count the amount of hours a machine does. Last year Miele did the endurance test on their website. They ran their washer for 10,000 hours which translates to 20 years of average houshold use. In Germany that is based on 5 loads a week. It is based on the Cottons programme which last 2 hours. Of course customers may use different programmes of various lengths of time. No other manufacturer gives an expected life of their appliance other than Miele. The dryer in the endurance test was supposed to go for 7,500 hours which was 20 years of use, but Miele pushed this to 10,000 hours like the washer.

I don't believe it is unreasonable for a manufacturer to give a definition of domestic vs commercial use. Domestic would be on average a cycle a day, where commercial would be 6 to 8 a day like in a laundromat.

Post# 183504 , Reply# 11   1/16/2007 at 06:09 (4,451 days old) by bearpeter ()        
Volvo Dave...

Personally think we should all copy Daves reply and use it if we are ever faced with a warranty issue...

Nice one Dave!!!


Post# 183557 , Reply# 12   1/16/2007 at 13:09 (4,451 days old) by seamusuk (Dover Kent UK)        
Looking at this.......

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Hey Guys

I would say Whirlpools defiantly do- how else can they guarantee the machine for 15 or 25 cycles per week??



Post# 183560 , Reply# 13   1/16/2007 at 13:14 (4,451 days old) by seamusuk (Dover Kent UK)        
Just click on....

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Compare models ;)

Post# 183581 , Reply# 14   1/16/2007 at 14:41 (4,450 days old) by jwilson00 ()        

hey peeps, thats really interesting that a load of washers do count the cycles, i did wonder though if it counted every time the start button was pushed (in which case i'd be doing like 30 washes a week, rinsing seems to be crap on this bosch), oh well its only got about 3 months left, so will wait and see if it goes in that time or out of it.
Been quite interested in the hotpoint aqualtis, especially the large load and being able to do duvets!! i hate going to the laundromat down our way. of course love the miele's, and would spend the money, its just that water stop device on the inlet hose, cause the water pipe faces in the opersite direction to the washer so would wonder if theres enough pipe to reach to it.

Post# 183583 , Reply# 15   1/16/2007 at 15:05 (4,450 days old) by chrisbsuk (Bristol, uk)        

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domestic use must be hard to define - it is based on a number of factors I guess. A single person would just be as much a domestic user as a family of four....

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