Thread Number: 16886
Maytag Top Loader problem
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Post# 278412   5/5/2008 at 10:37 (3,451 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

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Last Thursday my Maytag Dependable Care Plus sprung a leak. I have been having problems with water around the machine but it wasn't all the time.

I had the repair man out about two months ago, and he thought it was a stuck fill valve so he cleaned it and said all was ok.

Well--Thursday night I was standing there watching it fill so I knew it hadn't overflowed when I noticed water coming from the bottom of the machine. I took the front off and water was pouring from the center where the agitator shaft goes through.

I have called the service man, but some are saying the washer is toast. That the leak probably took out the transmission. Is this true? I am really not in the position to buy a new washer at this time even if I wanted one (which I don't).

I'm just trying to prepare myself for the worst, so I will be happy when the lesser happens. The machine is only 13 years old, I expect at least another 20 years out of it. I average about one load a day. I say one, becasue there are days I don't wash, then there are days I do seven loads when I strip beds etc.

I think the old girl still has a lot of life left in her. Let us Pray.





Post# 278418 , Reply# 1   5/5/2008 at 10:56 (3,451 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
It is possible.

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I'm sure it can be fixed. I don't know how, but it must be possible. If you need a new transmission, I think the new Orbital ones are still available. If you want to get crazy get a used Helical transmission for the large capacity washers and a Power Fin agitator to match.

A few seals, maybe a new transmission, certainly not impossible.
Dave


Post# 278422 , Reply# 2   5/5/2008 at 11:19 (3,451 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Concord, CA (But my heart will always be in sweet Nevada!))        
Shoot the serviceman...

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
How many times I see one of my fellow servicemen throw the 'tranny' card out like that as justification for not wanting to do the job... I see alot of tub bearings and seals go bad WITHOUT hurting the transmission. ( The Majority don't )
I have to go out on route this morning so I'm rushed, but I'll try to get back here this PM with part numbers and some advice to try to save your girl... I think we can do it...

RCD


Post# 278440 , Reply# 3   5/5/2008 at 12:19 (3,451 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
I think mine has the helical

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It looks like a funnel turned sideways under the tub. I am pretty sure it's a helical because it does have the white 12 vain agitator.

I am hoping that the water running over the outside the transmission is a good sign, maybe the seal protected it from going inside.

The service company just called, they will be out tomorow afternoon.


Post# 278443 , Reply# 4   5/5/2008 at 12:39 (3,451 days old) by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass)        

Sounds like the center tub stem & seal kit needs replacing. You may also need a tub bearing kit. If it's been leaking for awhile without you knowing it, you may need a radial bearing (below the baseplate), especially if it makes alot of bearing noise during the spin cycle. The tranny is fine.

Post# 278477 , Reply# 5   5/5/2008 at 15:10 (3,451 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
Transmission.

volvoguy87's profile picture
Yours has the newer style transmission. Unless I have them flipped around in my mind, the old one is the Helical and the new one is the Orbital. If I am right, the Orbital is the short fast stroke, and the Helical is the long slow stroke. Both are excellent, although I prefer the long slow stroke.

Getting my bearings...
Dave


Post# 278482 , Reply# 6   5/5/2008 at 15:28 (3,451 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

iheartmaytag's profile picture
You may be right Volvoguy.
In the brochure when I bought it, it was called the Dependable Care Transmission.

I thought the orbital was shorter in profile and rode up next to the tub. The one I have (whichever it is) all sits below the tub. It reminds me of a funnel turned sideways, or if you were looking at an old truck defferential.

It was bought new on 5-9-95, I believe the model is LAT 8704. I looked it up this afternoon for the appliance lady setting the appointment.

Good new,it seems that my homebuyer's warranty will cover all but $55 of the repairs. That's a big relief.


Post# 278483 , Reply# 7   5/5/2008 at 15:39 (3,451 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
IHeartMaytag, you have the two tranny styles reversed. Yours is orbital. However, technically, both are helical-drive, which refers to how the motor drives the tranny and spin basket. The orbital tranny design is changed internally, in how the transmission converts the motor's rotation into oscillation of the agitator.

Post# 278489 , Reply# 8   5/5/2008 at 16:17 (3,451 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Concord, CA (But my heart will always be in sweet Nevada!))        

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
You indeed have the orbital transmission. I'm glad you have a warranty to fix it and as long as the tech coming out knows what he's doing, you should be ok.
Parts that should be replaced:(Refer to picture below)
#29 - P/N 22001648 Mounting stem and seal kit (Cause of the leak)
#21 - P/N 204013 Tub bearing repair kit (can be damaged by the leak)

Addt'l parts that SHOULD be replaced to do the job right:
#4 - P/N 200744 Tub bolt & gasket assy (short) QTY 1
- P/N 205254 Tub bolt & Gasket assy (long) QTY 2

When pulling the outer tub to get to the bearing and seal assy's, these bolts should be replaced to avoid possible leak issues later.

By the way, these part numbers are good for rebuilding older Maytags, as well...

RCD



Post# 278505 , Reply# 9   5/5/2008 at 18:12 (3,451 days old) by qsd-dan ((SF Bay Area))        

qsd-dan's profile picture
I have a brand new Maytag orbital trans still in the box if you need one. The seller claimed it was the older helical trans, but it was immediately obvious by the narrow box that it was an orbital. I paid $100 for it, so I'd sell it to you for $75. I have no use for it.

Post# 278510 , Reply# 10   5/5/2008 at 19:08 (3,451 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Concord, CA (But my heart will always be in sweet Nevada!))        
As long as...

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
There are shallow and deep tub orbitals. His is a deep tub.
As long as it's P/N 206707 which subs to P/N 22002126, It'll work well...but you probably knew that... :)

RCD


Post# 278517 , Reply# 11   5/5/2008 at 19:45 (3,451 days old) by qsd-dan ((SF Bay Area))        

qsd-dan's profile picture
Well, I knew there was a shallow and deep tub, but I'm not up to date on the newer transmissions. I have way too much fun with the older tranny's :)

BTW, since you have been in the industry long enough to service many orbital and helical transmissions, what is your opinion on the helical vs. the orbital for longevity, reliability, and clean-ability?


Post# 278544 , Reply# 12   5/5/2008 at 21:51 (3,451 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Concord, CA (But my heart will always be in sweet Nevada!))        
Well...

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
The Helical Transmission is very bulletproof. The main reason I have to crack one open (and not that often at that) is to replace the lower shaft o-ring seal which can only be done from inside. They have a nice long stroke which is gentler on the clothes and does well with the lint collection with the in the agitator lint filter. I think the older style also has a longer service life due to how it's made and the materials used.

That being said, the orbital has it's points, too. Less moving parts, almost completely field serviceable without gutting the washer to get it out and, in it's own way, I think it washes ok. The stroke is faster and shorter but coupled with the Loadsensor (Corkscrew 2 pc) agitator, it moves some of the bulkier loads that the older style transmission had trouble rolling over... The main weakness I see in the orbitals is a bad habit of throwing the lower oil seal and leaking. The oil seal (a lip seal) is relatively easy to change from the bottom once you pull the drive pulley, but even after changing the seal, the leak may re-occur... I'll take the Maytag orbital transmission over the Whirlpool direct drive model any day as all you have to do is sneeze at it and it'll throw the neutral drain pkg out of whack or break one of MANY revisions of the coupler...

RCD


Post# 278674 , Reply# 13   5/6/2008 at 15:08 (3,450 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
The repair man just left my house

iheartmaytag's profile picture
He was there all of about 10 minutes, pronounced the old girl dead and left.

Estimate to fix $585. Exactally the same amount I gave for her 13 years ago this month. He said he didn't think the home warranty will approve this size repair for this old of a machine because they figure a washer's life cycle of seven years. He is going to submit the estimate to them, and maybe because it is a Maytag they may approve it.



Post# 278692 , Reply# 14   5/6/2008 at 16:54 (3,450 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
wow...

i guess we bend over and enjoy the sweet rail of this throw-away society.


Post# 278709 , Reply# 15   5/6/2008 at 17:28 (3,450 days old) by qsd-dan ((SF Bay Area))        

qsd-dan's profile picture
RCD: Thanks for your detailed and unbiased opinion. I asked Jim the same question, but all of his answers to any appliance were extremely biased in that the newer design was ALWAYS better.

Iheartmaytag: I'm guessing he pronounced your orbital transmission dead. The offer still stands for the new (not rebuilt) one I have in the box.


Post# 278730 , Reply# 16   5/6/2008 at 19:35 (3,450 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Concord, CA (But my heart will always be in sweet Nevada!))        
Did he at least leave a rose on the pillow?!?

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
Wow. Was that estimate including the supposed bad transmission? Lean the machine back against the wall, remove the drive belt and turn the drive pulley counter-clockwise. The pulley should turn smoothly and easily and the agitator should move.(Did this person even do that?) That should indicate what is most likely a happy transmission. The only way he can properly diagnose a water contaminated transmission is to crack open the cover on it and look for oil blended with water... I see, maybe, 1 in 70 or so 'water in transmissions'.
Lets play with some numbers for fun...

As far as parts: (in Reno prices)
22001648 subs to
22204012 $52.25
204013 $41.99
205254(qty2)$8.82
200744 $2.97
--------------
total $106.03
Avg Labor @ 1 hr.
Est $109.00
--------------
Total $215.03 + tax(Approx)

Maybe I'm off base about this. Maybe this guy's on the level. Maybe I should climb off my soapbox, but I hate seeing huge estimates thrown at good machinery causing premature retirement usually due to the repair person not wanting to fix it and instead sell another or being on commission. It does happen. Alot.
Time for my chill pill...

RCD


Post# 278814 , Reply# 17   5/7/2008 at 08:30 (3,449 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
RCD

iheartmaytag's profile picture
No this estimate doesn't involve the transmission. Its for a tub seal, bearing and belts. It's the labor that caused him to ram it in without KY.

I have to wait for the Home warranty company to decide if they are going to repair or replace it. I really don't want a new machine, but what's a poor guy to do?



Post# 278822 , Reply# 18   5/7/2008 at 09:25 (3,449 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
RCD

iheartmaytag's profile picture
No he did not lean the machine back. In fact he walked in wrote down the serial and model number. Took the front off the machine, filled it spun out the water, said he would submit the estimate. Total time in the house was less than ten minutes. And he charged me $55 for that.

I always thought when I get screwed that fast they should be the ones leaving the money on the dresser.


Post# 278859 , Reply# 19   5/7/2008 at 15:01 (3,449 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
Worthless service!

volvoguy87's profile picture
If the warranty company wants to replace it, I say you should start over and get an estimate from a competent service company. If that won't happen, fix the d!@n thing yourself. A Maytag Dependable Care of any vintage is better than the new junk you can buy today. Although Speed Queen top loaders are pretty good, I still think an old Maytag is far better. Even considering the cost of the repair and the age and wear on the rest of the machine, you're still better off with the Maytag.

Maytags are easy to service, what's this repair-person's problem?
Dave


Post# 278861 , Reply# 20   5/7/2008 at 15:20 (3,449 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Concord, CA (But my heart will always be in sweet Nevada!))        
That's what I'm saying...

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
Now you know what's wrong and what's needed to fix it. The rough estimate I posted above shouldn't be that far off. I'd try shopping the local servicers for estimates. Remember, those who operate out of a shop (as opposed to a truck) may charge less if you bring it to them. Doing it yourself isn't so bad as long as you have the Maytag tub nut tool to pull the tub nut and the mounting stem... This guy may also be padding the bill, hoping the insurance co. pays up without question...

RCD


Post# 278907 , Reply# 21   5/7/2008 at 20:44 (3,449 days old) by jaytag ()        
craigslist

Check your local C list and watch for a Maytag. They come up about once a month here in ATL. You may have to go to KC to pick one up, but you can get them for $100 or less.

Post# 279562 , Reply# 22   5/12/2008 at 08:53 (3,444 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
It's alive

iheartmaytag's profile picture
The home warranty people reviewed the claim, and decided that since it "Was a Maytag and not a disposable machine." They authorized the repair.

The old girl is holding her water and washing fine. Total bill $386.94. The repairman told me not to expect more than three or four years from this repair, and that I should take this time to look for a new machine. He said it isn't the machine itself, but he quality of the replacement parts that leaves him to worry that it will last very long.

In any case, I didn't have to buy a new washer, and got my money's worth out of the home warranty to boot.



Post# 279585 , Reply# 23   5/12/2008 at 11:13 (3,444 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Concord, CA (But my heart will always be in sweet Nevada!))        
Good deal!

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
Glad she lives! If he's worried about the quality of the parts, did he use factory parts? Also, did he do the repair the right way and change the tub bolts? Was this guy a factory authorized tech? Come on, enquiring minds want to know... :)

RCD


Post# 279602 , Reply# 24   5/12/2008 at 12:02 (3,444 days old) by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass)        


RCD,

Being factory authorized Maytag, you must know that they cheapened the center seal on the stem and seal kit. That's prolly what the tech is talking about. I had one last week that has been dripping for awhile and the customer didn't even notice. It has now taken out the tub bearing, as well as the radial bearing in the brake pkg.


Post# 279605 , Reply# 25   5/12/2008 at 12:22 (3,444 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

iheartmaytag's profile picture
It was a factory part, he showed me the package. He also changed the tub bolts and belts, I watched him.

He showed me the part he took off, and the one he was replacing it with. There was a noticable difference in the thickness of the seal.

He said on some machines that Whirlcrap was molding the bearing onto the tub so you have to replace the outer tub to fix the problem, which is cost prohibitive.

I will just baby the old girl, and pray she holds in there.

He suggested I look at the Bosch FL machines. He said he wasn't a salesman, and didn't make a commission; but he said they are very reliable and parts are easy to get if you need them.

It's amazing those little things you take for granted, things like clean underwear.


Post# 279820 , Reply# 26   5/13/2008 at 11:44 (3,443 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Concord, CA (But my heart will always be in sweet Nevada!))        
Cheaper parts...

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
Yes, I have to agree that the parts are cheaper such as going to a lip seal for the center seal. I get around that by using the old #A04298 agitator shaft seal WITH the new lip sealed stem. It compresses down nicely and effectively eliminates any worries of re-leakage. What I can't believe is how they've managed to eliminate almost all of the metal from the newer Magic Chef/Norge/Atlantis pump assys yet charge about twice as much for the damn thing...

As far as bearings molded into the tub, I know that Whirltag would LOVE to sell you a new outer tub (around $300) if you get a Neptune with bad bearings (MAH3000, MAH4000 & MAH55/65/7500) as the only way to fix it. That's why we have a way to replace the bearings ONLY without replacing the tub using factory parts. It can even be done with the tub in the washer. Drop me email and I'll give you the routine and part numbers. It's considerably cheaper for the customer and saves a good machine from untimely death.

RCD


Post# 279837 , Reply# 27   5/13/2008 at 14:08 (3,443 days old) by qsd-dan ((SF Bay Area))        

qsd-dan's profile picture
"I get around that by using the old #A04298 agitator shaft seal WITH the new lip sealed stem. It compresses down nicely and effectively eliminates any worries of re-leakage."

Woah, that's a great idea!!

I can't seem to get that part # (A04298) to show up. Is it still available?


Post# 279902 , Reply# 28   5/13/2008 at 17:06 (3,443 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Concord, CA (But my heart will always be in sweet Nevada!))        
Life in the post - Whirlpool blender...

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
If you can't get a 6 digit or older Maytag part number to come up, try putting a Y in front of it. When they blended Maytag and Whirlpool part databases together, they found that there were quite a few 'shared' numbers. For example, the Maytag Drive Belt would now be a 'Y211125'. In this case, you want to pull up P/N Y0A4298. Thats a 'zero' after the Y. The additional seal works fantastic, is around $15 and ensures that the new lip sealed mounting stem won't re-offend.

RCD


Post# 279906 , Reply# 29   5/13/2008 at 17:19 (3,443 days old) by qsd-dan ((SF Bay Area))        
Time to stock up!

qsd-dan's profile picture
Half of the parts sites don't recognize that part #, while the others claim it's now NLA.


I'm freakin out.......


Post# 279916 , Reply# 30   5/13/2008 at 17:50 (3,443 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Concord, CA (But my heart will always be in sweet Nevada!))        
Some Hoard food, Others Hoard Parts...

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
According to our local supplier, alot of places just don't bother to stock the part as the new mounting stem and seal kits don't use them. He can still get them.

RCD


Post# 279924 , Reply# 31   5/13/2008 at 18:18 (3,443 days old) by qsd-dan ((SF Bay Area))        
Local supplier

qsd-dan's profile picture
Is it Appliance Parts Co? I'll have to look up their new location. They pulled a fast one on me and moved last time I was up there.

I'm going to have them do a few more nationwide part searches for the 63 Frigidaire washer, 58 Maytag 641C, and the 64 Maytag DE-750 (they haven't let me down yet). I think I'll top off the order with 20 of those seals. I'm hoping to be up there next week.





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