Thread Number: 19982
Kitchenaid KUDS230B- Totally screwed
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Post# 319759   12/14/2008 at 21:53 (3,284 days old) by joe233 ()        

Hi,

Me again.

Now I think I know why the soap wasn't always emptying?
I observed the cycles tonight and it looked like there
wasn't any water in the rinse cycle. I'm not sure what's
broken but it seems totally screwed. The round seat and
lower spray arm comes right off if I lift it up. Is that
normal? The sort of webbed right that goes around the
spray arm seat is broken and came apart when I tried to
put it back.

I have no idea where to start.

Should I get a new dishwasher?

thanks





Post# 319760 , Reply# 1   12/14/2008 at 21:55 (3,284 days old) by joe233 ()        

Edit Correction:

I meant to say webbed ring.

The sort of webbed ring that goes around the
spray arm seat is broken and came apart when I tried to
put it back.


Post# 319780 , Reply# 2   12/14/2008 at 23:50 (3,283 days old) by joe233 ()        

I wish I could edit my posts instead of triple posting.

I ran a few cycles. Once it had water for the first wash cycle
but not the second. Next time it had no water for the first wash cycle. I tried running the rinse cycle. It had water. I'm not sure it was full enough. It was up to the top of the sunken
space around the ring but none was in the basin. When I opened it
during a cycle where no water was present it made a kind of hum.

I thought I'd update this to get a jump on it :-)

I will run some more tests....


Post# 319818 , Reply# 3   12/15/2008 at 07:34 (3,283 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Only answr I can give you right now is, NO, don't start looking for a new dishwasher. The KA expers will be able to help you with this.

Post# 319846 , Reply# 4   12/15/2008 at 11:49 (3,283 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

It can only be:

1- Float / water-level safety cut-off switch
2- Water inlet solenoid
3- Timer
4- Wiring associated with these items.

To me it sounds like the timer



Post# 319874 , Reply# 5   12/15/2008 at 15:16 (3,283 days old) by joe233 ()        

I thought it may be the timer also from doing a some google research.

The timer costs $200.
We may be looking for a new dishwasher.

Can you all recommend a good economical dishwasher?


Post# 319883 , Reply# 6   12/15/2008 at 17:30 (3,283 days old) by nmaineman36 ()        

I doubt it would be the timer. I had this model and encountered the same problem. Its the water inlet valve. If the timer is going thru the cycle then its not that. The valve is on the left hand side in the access area. Just remove the lower panel and make sure the power is off. Get a nut driver and you will see that the valve is on the left. You will have to detach the water pipe or hose to it and the wires. It comes out easily and remove the hose clamp for the inlet tube. Pull it out and put the new one in. It should take care of the problem. Also the 4 way HydroSweep is designed to be easy to remove. Pull up and off the PowerClean Module and slide back down. The design of the top of the wash arm support is made in a way that it deflects the water horizontally and it holds the arm down on the shaft. Its rather genius in simplicity.
Let us know how you make out.


Post# 319927 , Reply# 7   12/15/2008 at 21:57 (3,283 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        
Don't give up on the KA so quickly.

~Can you all recommend a good economical dishwasher?
Ask 10 people and you'll get 15 opinions.


Overall I still like the Whirlpool "Power-Clean" module type NON tall-tub (i.e. door and access panel) best. Loads decently, washes well and is relatively quick. Available with Kenmore name as well, IIRC. Search carefully (must have a ROUND water intake area at the bottom; not square/recangular) and you MAY be able to find it without electronic controls under one of WhilrTag's various brand names.

I have heard good things overall about the GE tall-tubs, with only one bad review.

Frigidaires don't last too long (but are plentiful and cheap) and some say they dont wash too well, and Bosch-es don't load too well.

My Maytag newer is a good machine, but like the lower-end GE's (water-hogs that wash decently) I'm not thrilled with the silverware basket in the center (left to right) of the front of the lower rack. To me, that location is a space-killer.


Post# 319933 , Reply# 8   12/15/2008 at 22:44 (3,282 days old) by joe233 ()        

OK, so it's this item?

www.repairclinic.com/SmartSearch/...

I will also need this as the old one is
missing most of the screen material and is
broken.

www.repairclinic.com/SmartSearch/...


Are you fairly sure about this? Would it
act as mine is? Work sometimes and not
at all others? It does seem that the timer
is running through the cycles, even dry.

Do I remove the front panel or the smaller
panel below it?

Should I put the 55 to 60 bucks into this to
replace the two parts?

thank you!


Post# 319934 , Reply# 9   12/15/2008 at 23:00 (3,282 days old) by joe233 ()        

I've run into a snag. How can I remove the lower panel
cover? The screws are in a position between the cabinets
and the dishwasher. If I had a screw head on a flat wrench
type thing I could do it. Is there such a tool? :-)

Also I had some smoke inside once. I think it was from
the broken plastic strainer falling down into the center.
Could this have been from the water heater melting it?
That's what it seemed like. It doesn't seem to smoke now
that I completely removed the strainer.

I just want to know if I have other electrical problems
or if it was possible the heater caused it. I don't know
where the heater is located.



Post# 319937 , Reply# 10   12/15/2008 at 23:15 (3,282 days old) by joe233 ()        

Offset Phillips :-)

Post# 320009 , Reply# 11   12/16/2008 at 12:45 (3,282 days old) by joe233 ()        

OK, so it's this item?

Water inlet valve
www.repairclinic.com/SmartSearch/...

I will also need this as the old one is
missing most of the screen material and is
broken.

Strainer
www.repairclinic.com/SmartSearch/...


Are you fairly sure about this? Would it
act as mine is? Work sometimes and not
at all others? It does seem that the timer
is running through the cycles, even dry.

Do I remove the front panel or the smaller
panel below it?

Should I put the 55 to 60 bucks into this to
replace the two parts?

Also I had some smoke inside once. I think it was from
the broken plastic strainer falling down into the center.
Could this have been from the water heater melting it?
That's what it seemed like. It doesn't seem to smoke now
that I completely removed the strainer.

I just want to know if I have other electrical problems
or if it was possible the heater caused it. I don't know
where the heater is located.

thank you!


Post# 320128 , Reply# 12   12/17/2008 at 13:51 (3,281 days old) by joe233 ()        

Waiting for an answer? :-)

Sorry I posted to the wrong thread.


Post# 320138 , Reply# 13   12/17/2008 at 15:58 (3,281 days old) by joe233 ()        

I've been waiting since Monday for some help here!

I have the lower cover off. I am not sure where the
water inlet valve is. I think I may see it behind a
large metal bracket. Looks like a hassle.

If I don't get some help here I will have to buy
a new dishwasher soon.

thanks


Post# 320151 , Reply# 14   12/17/2008 at 17:06 (3,281 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
The smoke could come from either the water heating element if something meltable/burnable got on it (such as pieces from the pump strainer), or from the drying heater element.

The water heating element is exposed in the pump sump area.

The drying element is in the blower housing outside the tub. Dust can get on it, or it could short-out to account for smoking.

The water valve is behind the lower panel, where the incoming water line (from under your sink) connects to the dishwasher. Your link above at RepairClinic shows the valve so you should be able to identify it. Remove the valve and examine it for clogging, clean it if necessary, reinstall, see if that helps.

However, if the machine *consistently* *does* fill at particular points during a cycle, and consistently *doesn't* fill at other points, then the problem may be the timer, not the valve. Run a cycle with the lower panel off, check for voltage at the valve at a point in the cycle when it should be filling but isn't.

PartsTap.com has the valve $5 less than RepairClinic.


Post# 320154 , Reply# 15   12/17/2008 at 17:44 (3,281 days old) by joe233 ()        

Well, it may be time for a new one.
This unit is 15 years old. I now see
stress fractures in the plate under
the front handle that lifts up.

I will look over the valve. Seems like
a job to get at it. I loosened that steel
bracket in front of it. Maybe I don't need
to. I will attempt to extract it with an
open end wrench on the small bracket on
the valve itself. I lost a screw, s**t :-)

Again any recommendations for a new unit?

Are there any to brands/models to stay away from?

I apologize for my impatience. Frustrating....
thanks


Post# 320176 , Reply# 16   12/17/2008 at 19:49 (3,281 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        
15 years is not too old ...

dadoes's profile picture
I have a KUDS22 (one series older than yours) bought in 1992 that my sister is now using. No repairs on it. It sat unused for about three years and the timer was a bit flaky at first but "loosened up" after a couple runs.

Post# 320177 , Reply# 17   12/17/2008 at 19:58 (3,281 days old) by joe233 ()        

Doesn't a timer cost about 200 bucks?

And I don't have all the equipment needed such
as a multi-meter or the know how.

Do you still think I should try?

The most I ever did to it was re-adjust the
bi-metal clips when the soap doors were not
opening. They have worked like a charm ever
since you guys helped me with them.

I attempt more if you think it's worth it.

Is it worth a 200 part and a service call?

What do you all think of this Kenmore 13742?
www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...



Post# 320197 , Reply# 18   12/17/2008 at 21:22 (3,281 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
For $43 more, I'd suggest the 13112 or 13412, these two are essentially like above, but add a staisness steel tub. I can vouch from personal experience, the SS tub retains heat longer and aids in overnight drying far better than the plastic tub. Also, be aware tha an average cycle, with 1/2 an hour dry time, runs about 2 hours and 6 minutes, (126 minutes) the shortest I've ever had was 110 minutes and that was with very minimal soil that didn't trip the soil sensor. That's using Smart Wash with only heated dry. My grungiest load has taken 2 hours and 47 minutes. I've had my machine for 1.5 years.

Post# 320204 , Reply# 19   12/17/2008 at 23:03 (3,280 days old) by joe233 ()        

The Kenmore 13742 has 4 stars

www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...

The Kenmore 13112 has 3 stars and some 1 star reviews

www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...

Any feedback on this?


Post# 320213 , Reply# 20   12/17/2008 at 23:38 (3,280 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Joe, all I can tell you is my experience. I am know for being pretty brutal for dishwasher loading on this site. I eat oatmeal for breakfast. Bowls sit for up to 7 days before they are washed. I use Cascade Complete and Smart Wash cycle. No trace of the foot. Same with pots used to bil rice and I've been known to have the rice cook partially dry with about 1/2 an inch of rice left on the bottom of the pan. I don't touch the pan. It gets dumped in the dishwasher. Again, clean pot at the end of the cycle. Throw a baked pasta cassarole dish in there untouched, CLEAN. My dishwasher is essentially the same one as what I suggested, mine just has a heavier sound insulation pad and a different control panel. I've been amazed because earlier versions of the whirlpol Tall Tub produced dishwashers were far finnikier in loading needs. I've only had one cereal bowl not come out clean recently and it's because I put it in the top rack and had another bowl too close to it. I usually put the bowls in the bottom rack. I essentially have abused this dishwasher by some people's standards. I couldn't live with a dishwasher (European) where you had a filter to clean because my excess food soil would be trapped in there every load. I don't believe in rinsing and I barely scrape at best. This is how I've washed dishes since 1984 when dishwasher really got on the ball!!

Post# 320214 , Reply# 21   12/17/2008 at 23:41 (3,280 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
With the SS tub, I don't worry about it being stained from tomato suace-based dishes (chili, italian foods, heavy cheese). Plastic tubs stain with these types of food soils and I don't have to worry.

Post# 320218 , Reply# 22   12/18/2008 at 00:03 (3,280 days old) by joe233 ()        

The Kenmore 13742 has Sani-Rinse and
it seems the Kenmore 13112 does not.

I am guessing the Kenmore 13742 has a few more
features that are offset by not having the stainless
steel tub.

Is this correct?


Post# 320221 , Reply# 23   12/18/2008 at 01:22 (3,280 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
I'm looking at the 13112's specs chart and there is the NSF Certified Sanitary Rinse.

Post# 320224 , Reply# 24   12/18/2008 at 02:44 (3,280 days old) by joe233 ()        

The 13112 has a filtration system.
What's that like?


Post# 320226 , Reply# 25   12/18/2008 at 03:36 (3,280 days old) by joe233 ()        

I guess they both have the filtration system.
I'm learning that you can't go by the title you
have to read the specs :-)

You're starting to convince me that the 13112 is
the way to go.

The 13742 has an eletromechanical timer and the
13112 has an electronic timer. Any preference
here?


Post# 320239 , Reply# 26   12/18/2008 at 07:00 (3,280 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Joe, the filtration system is the same one on my machine. If you look closely at the pictures of the two models, the control panels are essentially the same. They're both electronic.

Post# 320240 , Reply# 27   12/18/2008 at 07:01 (3,280 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
I'd hate to see you give up your KitchenAid. I hoe someone here will answer the questions you have about the repair process, but none of the experts have chimed back in here.

Post# 320259 , Reply# 28   12/18/2008 at 10:01 (3,280 days old) by jeffg ()        

We opted for the Kenmore #17702 several months ago and have been completely happy with it. No problems with undried dishes, or tub staining.

One misconception is that dishes retain heat longer in a SS tub. The opposite is true: the better conductor of heat a tub material is, the faster dishes inside the tub will lose heat.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO jeffg's LINK


Post# 320345 , Reply# 29   12/18/2008 at 19:22 (3,280 days old) by joe233 ()        

I saw this on one review.
Is there anything to this?

Overall Rating: 1 out of 5 1 5
Kenmore Dishwashers, November 5, 2008
By MNSteve from Minneapolis, MN

"I do not recommend buying Kenmore dishwashers. After only a couple of years, the buttons on the front panel tear off due to the heat. You cannot replace the push buttons panel without paying for the whole control panel. Even though the inside lasts and the cleaning is okay, the outside durability is not good. Warranty does you no good."


Post# 320351 , Reply# 30   12/18/2008 at 19:56 (3,280 days old) by jeffg ()        

I don't know what this reviewer means by buttons "tearing off". It would help to know what model he's referring to.

Post# 320381 , Reply# 31   12/18/2008 at 20:57 (3,280 days old) by joe233 ()        

OK, then I won't worry about it. You can't believe
all the reviews. I have found that any item will
have some one star reviews. There are defective units
from every model and brand and they tend to post
to the reviews. I believe the people who say a
dishwasher doesn't clean may not be using the correct soap,etc.

Thanks


Post# 320385 , Reply# 32   12/18/2008 at 21:09 (3,280 days old) by joe233 ()        

I'm torn between the two of these. I wonder if the one that is
43 dollars cheaper is better? Can they put a stainless steel
tub into the 13112 for 43 bucks without skimping on something
else?

13742
www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...

13112
www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...


Post# 320550 , Reply# 33   12/19/2008 at 20:51 (3,279 days old) by joe233 ()        

We bought the Kenmore 13112.
www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...

We finally made a decision. We opted not to buy the
5 year extended warranty which is $180.

P.S.- I thought I better post to this thread also
to let appnut know.

Now I'm out of here for awhile :-)





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