Thread Number: 21354
What does a 'Shredmore' look like?
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Post# 336498   3/20/2009 at 20:46 (3,072 days old) by moparwash (Pittsburgh,PA -Next Wash-In...June 2018!)        

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Keep hearing how evil they are..please post pics so I can run screaming from these monsters!

Post# 336510 , Reply# 1   3/20/2009 at 21:01 (3,072 days old) by ttuee2006 ()        

Here's a couple pix of an early Shredmore from '88. Anything newer than this will ALWAYS be a shredmore.

Post# 336511 , Reply# 2   3/20/2009 at 21:03 (3,072 days old) by ttuee2006 ()        

And here's the telltale basket. If you see the tall, skinny basket, and the corkscrew agitator, it is ALWAYS a Shredmore. Some of the skinnier, smaller capacity Shredmores also have straight vane agitators which are even rougher on clothes.

Post# 336540 , Reply# 3   3/20/2009 at 22:49 (3,071 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

...and all this nonsense began due to the "Cruel-Action" agitator.

The "intellignecia" that designed/engineered the newer machines realized that the cork-screw portion of the dual-action agitiaor wasn't moving constantly -- it appeared stationary for brief periods as the bottom fins reversed diretion--. So that was "corrected".

Ulitmately a fast slow arc was introduced.
Sadly even Maytag did it with their "new" Orbital drive.

Now even GE Filter-flows had a fast slow arc of barely 90 degrees BUT their ramp-style agitators are not neary as cruel.

Post# 336559 , Reply# 4   3/21/2009 at 00:41 (3,071 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Two ways this propensity to shred (or at least be overly rough) were ameliorated-

Some models shifted to a reduced speed agitation the last few minutes of the wash.

Other models had a "Normal" cycle that is slow wash/fast spin and a "Heavy Duty" cycle that is normal wash/normal speed spin.

Post# 336563 , Reply# 5   3/21/2009 at 01:21 (3,071 days old) by tuthill ()        

Shredmore 1

Post# 336564 , Reply# 6   3/21/2009 at 01:25 (3,071 days old) by tuthill ()        


Post# 336566 , Reply# 7   3/21/2009 at 01:31 (3,071 days old) by ttuee2006 ()        
GE Filter-Flo

The GE Filter-Flo's do have a quicker short-arc stroke, but it should also be noted that even on high speed, they still agitate slower than a Shredmore on Low! The ramped agitator is nowhere near as rough on clothes as the Shredmore agitator is.

Now if you stick a straight vane agitator in a GE, then you're levelling the playing field. I HAVE had my GE shred clothes with the straight vane in it! That's why the ramped agitator gets all the use.....the straight vane can sit on the side and watch...

I can't wait to get the Highlander finished so I can have a REAL washer to play with!

Post# 336573 , Reply# 8   3/21/2009 at 02:19 (3,071 days old) by revvinkevin (Between Mickey Mouse & the Queen Mary (So. Cal.)        
You cannot go only by the auger agitator....

revvinkevin's profile picture must also look at the control panel and the cabinet. Any KM (newer) with the timer knob off to one side will be a direct drive (shredmore).

This KM below (a belt drive), also has an auger agitator and a black control panel, BUT the timer is in the center. ALSO, notice the tub opening, both the cabinet top and "tub ring" is "D" shaped, a direct drive will have a round tub opening.

Post# 336575 , Reply# 9   3/21/2009 at 02:33 (3,071 days old) by revvinkevin (Between Mickey Mouse & the Queen Mary (So. Cal.)        
By the way... the belt drive machine above was built in mid

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These photos show a 1984 KM, 24" std. capacity washer (left) and a 1989 Whirlpool XL capacity washer (right). Both are direct drive and thus, shredmores, however I must admit the WP was more gentle then the '84 KM. That KM damaged one of my shirts after ONLY being washed once in it!!

Note that both timer knobs are off to one side (though all WP's are) and the tub opening is round.

Post# 336599 , Reply# 10   3/21/2009 at 08:00 (3,071 days old) by maytagwc401 ()        

I have a Whirlpool version, about ten years old, that slows down to a gentler speed at the end of the wash cycle. And I never had any damaged clothing. Maybe you guys might overload your machines???

Post# 336600 , Reply# 11   3/21/2009 at 08:03 (3,071 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        
1984-2008 R.I.P.

Interesting! My mother's 1984 DD 24" Kenmore had the same control panel as shown in panel #336573, above, and the same opening shown in panel #336575, bottom left. Hers however had the cruel-action agitator. It lasted 24 years without a repair and could probably have been saved with a simple coupler. But she wanted a front-loader, and an automatic "extra" rinse.

Post# 336607 , Reply# 12   3/21/2009 at 09:20 (3,071 days old) by moparwash (Pittsburgh,PA -Next Wash-In...June 2018!)        

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...No wonder I see things in the trash every week in my neighbiorhood!

Post# 336609 , Reply# 13   3/21/2009 at 10:00 (3,071 days old) by ttuee2006 ()        

Believe it or not, they're actually VERY reliable machines. Not much goes wrong since it's all direct-drive.

That said, the mean-ness to the clothing probably prompts a lot of people to get the front-loaders when their washer konks out since the front loaders are so much easier on clothing.

FWIW, I NEVER used to overload my Shredmore, and it always did a number on my clothes. I tend to wear clothing until I just can't anymore, and it made sure that I couldn't long before any other washer I ever had! Before I had it, I had been using a Helical Maytag commercial washer for the previous 4 years! So I was a little spoiled....

Post# 336618 , Reply# 14   3/21/2009 at 10:37 (3,071 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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My grandmother got a Whirlpool Design 2000 model LA7400XMW2 serial C43505625 on 11/16/1984 (I have the purchase receipt). She used it until 8/2/1999 when she inherited my KA 760 pair (when I got the F&P GWL08/DE04). I used the Whirly also from 1987 thru 1991 when I was living in an apt and didn't have a washer & dryer. Never any repairs on the Whirly in 14 years 9 months. The KAs (which are in my garage) then gave way to the F&Ps on 10/8/2004 when I got the next F&P set (IWL12/DEGX1). Neither of us had any clothing damaged by either the Whirly or the KA. Granny is still using the same sheets and many of the same bath towels & wash cloths, and whatever other clothing she is still wearing as well.

Post# 336644 , Reply# 15   3/21/2009 at 14:02 (3,071 days old) by autowasherfreak ()        
Shredmore's are that bad.

I had a TOL Kenmore in the early 1990's that my mother bought me when I moved into my trailer. It had the dual-action agitator and triple dispenser. It was the next model down from the solid state electronic machine. I used it for about 6 years, and never had anything ripped or shredded.

I washed jeans, towels, and sheets in the heavy cycle which had the fastest agitation. Dress pants, dress shirts, and every day shirts were washed in the Perm. Press cycle which had a gentler agitation. It was a great machine, in fact I wish I still had it today. I had to move out of the trailer and mom stored it for me for a couple years. I finally told her to sell it, because I didn't think I would be moving back into a house anytime soon. I just like the belt drive machines better.

My roommate works on a gambling boat as a bartender has has these crappy shirts he has to wear, and I don't know if it's my washer that is causing it or the cheap material that the shirts are made of but, he has gone through several shirts since he started working there. The seems rip and the buttons come off. I wash them in warm water, on a short or gentle wash with a low spin in my Frigidaire front loader. I think it must be the craftsmanship of the clothes because these shirts are the only clothing items that are coming apart.

Post# 337191 , Reply# 16   3/23/2009 at 23:25 (3,068 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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I can't remember what year my grandma bought her Kenmore WD. It had the SAME panel with the dial in the center but it had the cruel (LOL) action agitator. I want to say she bought it either in 85 or 86. The thing lasted until 2008 and it was making a horrible noise while washing but she kept washing with it and it still did the job even making the loud noise. My brother ended up giving her his and he bought a new one. I don't ever remember it damaging any of our clothes. I suspect they wore out quicker but no damage that I remember.

Post# 337208 , Reply# 17   3/24/2009 at 06:06 (3,068 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        

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I used Scotts machine a few years ago and was pleasantly surprised by the wash action and programme options of this particular machine....certainly whips those clothes around, probably no more violent than a Hoover twinny on a 4 minute wash!!!

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Post# 337211 , Reply# 18   3/24/2009 at 06:28 (3,068 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        

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Post# 337212 , Reply# 19   3/24/2009 at 06:46 (3,068 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

I USED to have a "Shredmore" like what was shown in the video.Traded mine in towards a vintage WP Imperial 90-still use today-and its much better.The loud clacking you hear is the dual action agitator "dogs".with a shallow load as shown the speed should be set to low-or you will get clothes that look like you washed them with your Roto-tiller.Also the higher water levels decrease the "shredding"


Post# 337224 , Reply# 20   3/24/2009 at 07:42 (3,068 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Ohh, Mikey, Shredmore at its "best". Causes nightmares with me just watching it. I think I"m the one who coined the term Shredmore.

Post# 337231 , Reply# 21   3/24/2009 at 08:00 (3,068 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        

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Morning Bob...i think you did, it was from you that I did first hear the phrase used...I can see what you guys mean especially as Servis machines here used the slower wider sweep & arc like Speed Queen, so this does seem really fast....but having used Hoover twinnys that wash in 4 mins and whizz your clothes around at 600rpm they do seem a tad slower...LOl

Post# 337233 , Reply# 22   3/24/2009 at 08:22 (3,068 days old) by jmm63 (Denville, NJ)        
to Kenmore's defense

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I had a 99 Kenmore 90 Series washer up until last year and I never had a problem with it being rough on clothes. I think the key was to never overload it and to use the normal speed for almost everything. As with any washer, not using the proper settings and overloading will cause any washer to be a shredder.

Post# 337242 , Reply# 23   3/24/2009 at 09:37 (3,068 days old) by rayjay (Carteret, New Jersey)        
to Kenmore's defense

Jim, I totally agree. You cannot overload a top loader. I had a Maytag LAT9900, and I updated the agitator to that cork screw one, (Not sure what Maytag called it at the time). I never had a problem. Used it for over 10 years.

Some of it also has to do with the fabric also.

If you buy clothes in K-Mart....... (ducks and runs).

Post# 337478 , Reply# 24   3/25/2009 at 12:32 (3,067 days old) by vintagesearch ()        
the recipe for a shredpool/shredmore

well here its is someone shows us how we can damage our clothing by severly overloading until the tub is unbalanced or maybe the washer needs to be leveled!!!! my god some people are just....

CLICK HERE TO GO TO vintagesearch's LINK

Post# 337579 , Reply# 25   3/25/2009 at 21:38 (3,067 days old) by autowasherfreak ()        

Hey, I represent that remark most of the clothes in my closet came from K-mart. LOL I was force do buy new clothes for work when they decided to enforce a dress code. That was about 5 years ago, they are holing up pretty good. I wasn't about to buy expensive clothes just to sit and transcribe digital records, so I went to K-mart and Wal-Mart. I told them if they didn't like what I was wearing give me money and I buy what every they want. I think it all depends on how you take care of the clothes.

Post# 337584 , Reply# 26   3/25/2009 at 21:44 (3,067 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Randy, I think that's the most stuffed shredmore I've ever seen. Not a bit of rollover.

Post# 337892 , Reply# 27   3/26/2009 at 14:19 (3,066 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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My mother used to twist the timer dial on her Hoovermatic deluxe, giving the load around 8 minutes of wash time!

But the clothes held together in the 1970s; most of the clothes came from Marks & Spencer - school shirts and underwear. Towels were 'Horrocks', dad had 'Slazenger' golf shirts, and most stuff was "Made in England".

Nowadays it tends to be cheap, badly finished rubbish.

Post# 338653 , Reply# 28   3/29/2009 at 19:14 (3,063 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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I busted out laughing when I first read the term CRUEL ACTION agitator on this post!

Post# 338672 , Reply# 29   3/29/2009 at 21:00 (3,063 days old) by autowasherfreak ()        

Cruel Action and Shredmore, funniest washer terms I've heard since I joined the list.

Post# 339572 , Reply# 30   4/2/2009 at 16:02 (3,059 days old) by hilovane (Columbus OH)        

I used to say (snidely), that if the agitator speed in a WP/Kenless (182 strokes per minute, or close?)were any faster, you could strap the whole machine to the back of a boat, and go water skiing with it! (LOL)

Post# 339621 , Reply# 31   4/3/2009 at 01:23 (3,058 days old) by norfolksouthern ()        

It's made for us janitors, plumers, auto mechanics, boilermakers, long haul truckers, construction workers, miners, and other assorted grease jockies. The Shredmore Cruel Action Agitator and its redneck washing machine drivin' a white Ford F-150 Club Cab jingle: Chuka chuka chuka chuka chuka chuka chuka chuka!


Post# 340755 , Reply# 32   4/7/2009 at 20:48 (3,054 days old) by dnastrau (Lords Valley, PA)        
KitchenAid Shredmore

I am not in the "hate Shredmore" camp but I will say that they are rough on clothes on "fast" agitation. We had a middle-of-the-line 2000 model year KitchenAid toploader (fancy version of the ShredmorePool variants.) It was a flexible machine but didn't have a slow agitation/fast spin combination selection available like some others of the Shredmore variety that I have seen. We would start the cycle on slow agitation and flip the knob to fast spin when the spin cycle started. This reduced the extra wear on clothes using the slower agitation but extracted a bit more water by using the fast spin speed.

It was a reliable machine only needing a new coupler at the four year mark. It wasn't "Whisper Quiet" like it said on the control panel - it sounded like a typical Shredmore and didn't have any insulation in the cabinet or anything like that. We replaced it with a 2007 Maytag Epic 9700 (Duet clone.) I sold the KA on Ebay for $50 - I should have kept it as a second machine for that price since it was still very clean.

Based on what I am now reading about Duets and their sometimes short-lived tub bearings I have a feeling that we may be replacing the Epic sooner than I'd like... Nothing like built in obsolescence - ugh!

Andrew S.

Post# 342937 , Reply# 33   4/17/2009 at 01:50 (3,044 days old) by strongenough78 (California)        

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I personally have never had a problem with the fast stroke, dual action Kenmores or Whirlpools. Even with silk shirts, just set it on delecate and they come out fine.

Post# 913762 , Reply# 34   1/3/2017 at 10:22 (226 days old) by mrcreosote (USA)        
Has anyone figured out exactly why they shred?

I have a loaded Series 80 and with 3 jeans in it, it will slice them up.

There is definitely something very wrong since you can see specific slicing/gnawing marks cutting through the denim. You can also see that most of the time where the slicing occurs, the cloth has been bunched or knotted up - it clearly was not freely circulating.

So what can slice?

My #1 Theory is that the agitator base clearance is too great (mine is 3/4") - I can get my fingers entirely under the base. And that is when I can feel the OD base flange edge - if anything gets under that base, this edge will saw its way through the fabric.

Some people have no problems. I believe this is because they don't have a 3/4" base gap. (I think the gap should be as small as possible - maybe 1/8")

EXPERIMENT #1: I'm going to cut a hard styrofoam disc to press fit into the underneath of the agitator base that will close up that clearance.

#2 Theory is that the agitator fins are slotted at the base. So it would be possible to clothing to get dragged through those slots - or gets stuck in them. Of course this would NOT produce the slicing damage. Thus my #2 Theory.

NOTE: I've had very old Kenmores with tiny capacity and you could fill them like a trash compactor and yes, the clothes would not circulate, but they would NEVER be damaged! My Aunt had a Maytag (she retired her Maytag wringer washer and it had an amazing agitator. It hardly moved - let's say it "twitched" and yet, produced massive circulation. If I knew what models had that agitator, I would find a used one immediately.

Post# 913766 , Reply# 35   1/3/2017 at 11:23 (226 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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My theory on shredding is...

1, Overloading to the point of getting the tub so jammed packed none of the clothes ever move, they end up getting moist, the agitator shreds, and that's it.

2, Wrong size Water Level. I had to use a Shredmore for 2 years and Underloading with Extra High water levels and Slow Agitation seemed to relieve the shredding.

3, Mechanically... I feel the stroke is too aggressive. Never likes the machine for that reason. Shredmores always reminded me of some Meth Head. Just chattering away and making no sense with generally hardly any accomplishment but being annoying. Kind of like a Circuit Queen. Pretty to look at, Nice features, but lacking or poor performance. (Sometimes) : )

I don't think your Disc under the agitator will make any difference at all.

Once a Shredmore, always a Shredmore.

But I will say this... Man !!! they last and last and are pretty much indestructible. I have a woman friend that for 15+ years overloads the crap out of that machine and it stil chugs along. I have moved her clothes to the dryer for her and what she packs in that machine, you could fill a 35 lb Milnor. And the machine has NEVER snapped the drive coupler. AMAZING.

How are the results of overloading like that ? They wear things once, have really no soil level, and I don't think they notice. Does the Fabric show signs of wear ???... As they say on Rowan and Martin's Laugh in... "You bet your Sweet Bippy" they show wear.

And Shredmore Believers, Owners, and Advocates... This is a personal opinion and my thoughts. Your mileage may vary.

Post# 913777 , Reply# 36   1/3/2017 at 13:19 (226 days old) by brucelucenta (tulsa, oklahoma)        

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When ANY washer will shred clothing it is user error. Believe it or not, there are people so stupid that they pack a machine to the point it cannot do what it is supposed to do and cause damage to the clothes. I have had a Whirlpool washer like this and had absolutely NO problems with it. It did promote more lint than most and was a little more aggressive at washing, but other than that it worked quite well.

Post# 913899 , Reply# 37   1/4/2017 at 07:34 (225 days old) by Bobbi (Pennsylvania)        

I own a Kenmore 90 series, direct drive. It does not shred clothes. The Heavy Duty agitation speed IS aggressive, but I only use that setting on my mechanic husband's filthy work jeans, rugs and dog towels. I've never had anything shredded by this machine. The Normal setting is fairly gentle in my opinion. However, I do get a lot of lint, which is probably the case with most TL machines. I long for an overflow rinse machine with a good lint filter.

Post# 913903 , Reply# 38   1/4/2017 at 08:54 (225 days old) by Wishwash (Illinois)        

Oddly enough I've never had much of an issue with a direct drive machine, but we had quite a few items shredded by our early 80s whirlpool belt drive years ago.

Post# 913908 , Reply# 39   1/4/2017 at 09:59 (225 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
canadien kenmore washers

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canadien kenmore washer 1 has a view of the wash basket during the 1770 and 1980sorry no view of the tub for the 1988 kenmore washer

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Post# 913909 , Reply# 40   1/4/2017 at 10:07 (225 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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I use the Kitchen Aid large base agitator in all of my direct drive machines...

its designed for medium to low speed agitation.....

yeah right!, I use full speed agitation all the time, never any shredding, no tranny issues, or have yet to bust a coupler.....

your mileage may vary.....

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Post# 913912 , Reply# 41   1/4/2017 at 11:05 (225 days old) by brucelucenta (tulsa, oklahoma)        

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I always said that shredmore stuff was a crock!!!

Post# 913996 , Reply# 42   1/4/2017 at 19:11 (225 days old) by mrcreosote (USA)        

Series 80 Super Capacity Plus
Full Load Setting
Slow/Slow Agitator speed
Washing ONLY 3 Jeans

Not only will you see a predetermination of knife-like slices, you will see that they range from tiny/faint to large and cut through.

And you will see clusters of them. Perhaps the jeans got caught and each time the slicing abrasion occurred, it left a small mark, and then on the next agitation stroke, they moved a little and another small mark was made. Perhaps when they are truly stuck, repeated slicing cuts through.

THEORY #3: I forgot to consider another place where relative motion occurs: BETWEEN the Top and Bottom Agitator.

As far as over loading and shredding. Not so. I am 64 years old and have NEVER had a washing machine damage clothes and back in the 60's, they were tiny capacities so you always tried to get as much in a load as possible.

Regarding circulation:

The Series 80, if lightly loaded and full water level, you will not see circulation at slow agitation speeds. I believe the cloths sink to the bottom. If I increase agitation speed, then I will see circulation at the water top surface. (Did you ever try to wash a large quilt in one of those small machines? Well, I have and they did a good job. The Series 80 would reduce a quilt back into the potholders it was made from.

Also if running low water level and fast agitation it's like piranha's in there. The action is so fierce, I would never consider using those settings.

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Post# 914011 , Reply# 43   1/4/2017 at 20:01 (225 days old) by mrcreosote (USA)        

Another comment on their upper screw agitator action:

They use the top "ratcheting" screw/auger agitator to push the cloths down into the bottom reciprocating "radial" agitator.

Not totally unlike the the power feed on a shredder.

So THEORY #3 is gaining "momentum" the auger pushes the clothes into the lower reciprocating agitator. And where the two meet, there is great relative motion as the auger ratchets. However this is not a powered or constrained racheting - if the clothes were jammed, the auger would go along for the ride with the bottom agitator and the machine would not directly rip clothes with actual mechanical force.

Got a lead on a appliance guy that's been doing this all his life. Supposed to be really good. Maybe he has a solution.

Post# 914072 , Reply# 44   1/5/2017 at 07:30 (224 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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this is going to be one of those 'beat a dead horse' threads.....

there is always a chance that there may be a jagged edge on any given part of the agitator, causing snagging issues....

has anyone considered that, in this example, the material may not be of the best quality......

someone can say 'jean' or 'denim'....but not all are created equal.....

if there was a pair of Carhartt or Calvin Klein.....willing to bet, your not going to see damage in those for a long time.....they would wear out before any machine would do damage...

special finish denim will start to break down the fibers at first wash....chemicals are used to lighten, or soften least here in town, denim is dyed all one color, dark blue, special finishes are created once the garment is assembled....

Post# 914215 , Reply# 45   1/5/2017 at 21:30 (223 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Reply #42,  Is there any chance the jeans in question have come into contact with automobile battery acid or another corrosive ?

Post# 914250 , Reply# 46   1/6/2017 at 05:39 (223 days old) by brucelucenta (tulsa, oklahoma)        

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To blame the washer for the weak spots in the jeans is kind of ridiculous. Most of the places on there look like chemical damage, not physical damage. Most jeans now days are given a chemical bath to make them look aged and older. That weakens the fabric quite a bit. It also makes the jeans last for a much shorter time, thus selling more pairs in a much quicker amount of time. The snag on the back pocket is just that, somehow it was snagged on something. Certainly not agitator damage. Having run a dry cleaners and laundry business for many years, I can tell by looking at a fabric with some degree of certainty what the problem is. The direct drive washers will create more linting and are more aggressive at agitating, but no more than my Frigidaire 1-18 was and it NEVER shredded anything. If a direct drive washing machine is loaded and used properly, there is no problem. Overloading can cause more linting and poor washing, to say nothing of being hard on the machine too.

Post# 914371 , Reply# 47   1/6/2017 at 20:55 (223 days old) by mrcreosote (USA)        

Let me repeat: I have never had a washing machine damage clothes my entire life until I got this Series 80. In fact, when I first saw this damage, I thought that somehow mice or insects were "eating" my clothes.

As far as jeans being worn out. I typically use jeans until the knees tear out. These jeans are nowhere near that stage of wear. As far as the exotic chemicals people are speculating about, we're talking auto hobby here: grease and oil.

I've had the agitator out looking for damage, sharp edges, etc. and everything is in order.

It seems like many different types of agitators damage clothes, so that means a common design issue. The one thing I've seen in common are the slots on the bottom of the fins' bottom at the bottom surface of the agitator.

Old washing machines did not have those slots.

As far as the top auger goes, I removed the ratchet pawls and looked at circulation with clear water. I don't see the need or the auger - the bottom agitator creates a lot of circulation even on slow. I would have liked to remove the auger entirely but that would leave slots and edges exposed from the bottom agitator.

Note on the auger: the leading edge is smoothly ramped in height while the trailing edge has an abrupt 90* end. While there is a radius, this is basically a "sharp" protrusion that could harpoon circulating clothes. In the above, the pic of the what I think is called the "high ramp" agitator shows the auger trailing edge ramping away eliminating the 90* protrusion.

My suspicions are now: 1) fin slots, 2) auger, and 3) 3/4" agitator clearance with bottom of tube (that simply cannot be a good thing.) For now, I'm going to run it w/o the ratchet pawls.

Post# 914378 , Reply# 48   1/6/2017 at 22:32 (222 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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It seems like many different types of agitators damage clothes, so that means a common design issue. The one thing I've seen in common are the slots on the bottom of the fins' bottom at the bottom surface of the agitator.

Old washing machines did not have those slots.
Not true.  Have you seen Maytags?

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Post# 914383 , Reply# 49   1/6/2017 at 23:53 (222 days old) by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

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I sit and think about the appliances mom had when I was a kid, I can hardly remember them, but I remember that agitator, filter and softener cup. I remember them vividly... We had that washer for as long as I can remember being in the house I grew up in.

When we moved to Texas, mom left the laundry pair in the old house and bought new Neptunes in 2005. She still has the same pair. The Neptunes have lived in Texas, Missouri and North Dakota :) !

Post# 914417 , Reply# 50   1/7/2017 at 09:31 (222 days old) by mrcreosote (USA)        

The only Maytag I remember and had was the wringer washer. My aunt upgraded to an automatic maybe around 1980? but I don't remember what the agitator looked like. The circulation was impressive and the agitator made fast, short-stroke "twitching" motion. There were no complaints - she liked it.

DADoES, I assume that Maytag agitator pic you posted (thanks!) did not have shredding issues?

Here are some pics of the very differently Series 80 agitator "thick OD edge" AND a pic of my fingers all the way in the gap with the tub.

The tall OD "edge" is not solid and the actual edge is such that it would cut my fingers off if sharp and oscillating.

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Post# 914419 , Reply# 51   1/7/2017 at 10:29 (222 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
We just got an '83 'Supreme'

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up and running. It has the 'super surgilator' (slightly curved vanes on top of a gigantic (guess nowadays one would say 'bigly') washplate.

It most definitely does not shred clothes whereas the late '80s 'corkscrew' monstrosities many of my American relations had did.

I spent time in their laundry rooms. They were not overloaded, they were not filled with cheap clothes, they were not subject to gallons of bleach, they were not stopped and reset to wash at the highest speed/lowest water level for 52 minutes.


Whirlpool was fighting the 'bigger is better' wars with machines which simply couldn't be made physically bigger - people were already overjoyed about the 24" as opposed to the 27" size (not that a cylinder could expand further out than the smallest dimension of the cabinet, which is front to back) and the only way to get a too large basket of clothes clean was to make the agitation so aggressive that things ended up getting shredded.


I am most definitely not a Whirlpool fan, but to blame the machines for user error is wrong. If you're using a corkscrew agitator, then you need to use a high water level and not fill it full. Soak the clothes longer, use a slower agitation and horror of horrors - how about hot water and phosphates?


Still think the cheapest filter-flo is a better cleaner than the best Whirlpool ever made.





Post# 914464 , Reply# 52   1/7/2017 at 16:19 (222 days old) by moparwash (Pittsburgh,PA -Next Wash-In...June 2018!)        

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I never though my almost 8 year old post would show up again!... I do have my own 'Shredmore' with the KA agitator added. With proper water level and loading, I never had any shredding, but sometimes towels and jeans will come out twisted.

  View Full Size
Post# 915665 , Reply# 53   1/14/2017 at 15:21 (215 days old) by MrCreosote (USA)        

Any comments on that huge gap under the agitator I can get my hand under?

Post# 915766 , Reply# 54   1/15/2017 at 10:03 (214 days old) by Bobbi (Pennsylvania)        

MrCreosote - I can get my fingers under the agitator of my Kenmore 90 series agitator, but only up to the middle finger knuckle. Perhaps your agitator is not completely seated somehow. Not even sure that would be possible?

Post# 915808 , Reply# 55   1/15/2017 at 15:43 (214 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
I hate them

Not only because of the short stroke, but I challenge anyone to find one that does not have a greasy black ring on the agitator at the water line, proof to my way of thinking that for all the thrashing, they don't wash nearly as well as a belt drive.

Post# 915998 , Reply# 56   1/17/2017 at 02:18 (212 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

I agree with Panthera, it is not user error IMO. These machines were aggressive on high speed, so much so Sears actually warned its customers not to buy 1 speed machines (been there, lectured that) with Kenmore calling the Normal wash action "Heavy Duty". The arc is much shorter over the belt drives, and if I remember right I am most certain the stokes per minute are far more on DDs. FWIW one has to remember that the original direct drive design was meant for small capacity machines, much like the modern Whirlpool design was originally intended for use on compact machines. Finally, I'd argue the final proof being that modern VMWs have a much longer arc with fewer strokes per minute which from what I have heard are indeed gentler.


Now, on to the agitator gap. I do not know if you have the same problem, but I remember a peculiar never before seen, probably not to be believed experience when my 2004 DD Estate started acting up in 2010. The machine started making a jake brake like grrrrrrrbbbrrrbbbrrrbbrrbbbabububbbub sound when it would stop spinning. A few months of doing this and the machine also gradually began to loose its ability to spin, like a classic clutch problem. I came to notice that a few weeks after the machine started making that noise the inner tub actually began to physically drop. I thought it was my imagination until the spin problem started and I had the ability to actually stick my entire hand underneath the agitator at that point. Also, because this machine drained into a long hose connected to a 8 or 9 ft stand pipe (used to not be the case as the machine was up on plywood and cinder blocks but that was another headache) the outer tub had something like an inch of water in it after each spin. I normally do not see that water, but when the tub dropped I began to see some if it go through the bottom set of hols in the inner tub right beside the agitator base.

Sadly I never bothered dissecting the machine to see what it was or how it happened. I needed a washer and had a DD center dial Maytag delivered in 2 days with the Estate being taken whole. In all honesty I have never seen a DD washer do that or thought it was possible, but the above pic reminds me of just that lol.

Post# 916005 , Reply# 57   1/17/2017 at 03:52 (212 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

As I remember on my Shredmore-there was a vertical skirt extension on its agitator-Triple action-that would prevent things from getting tangled under the agitator.Occasionally get this in my Hotpoint.My Shredmore would still shred things on occasion.When I traded it in to the swap shop on a WP BD Imperial--problem ended.Now my WP leaks like a sieve-can't find where it is.Want to fix and put this machine back to use.

Post# 923902 , Reply# 58   2/26/2017 at 12:03 by MrCreosote (USA)        
I'm like that squirrel pondering a high voltage transfor

...and thinking about getting the Kitchen Aide blue agitator. Trying to find a used appliance "junkyard" locally.

Right now I'm using mine with the 4 ratchet pawls removed because the OD edge of the auger has a large slicing component - and it's a slicing action that cuts the clothes.

Interesting observation about the drum dropping.

Thanks for the insights,

Post# 923908 , Reply# 59   2/26/2017 at 13:09 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Anyone who has sliced clothes directly caused by a Whirlpool/KA/Kenmore/etc. agitator auger is doing it seriously wrong ... IMHO.

Post# 924199 , Reply# 60   2/28/2017 at 15:44 by Bobbi (Pennsylvania)        

I agree, Dadoes, or something is wrong with the way the agitator is sitting in the machine, but how could that happen?
Anyway, my Kenmore 90 Series never shredded anything, but it was hard on the clothing. I just recently purchased an LG FL machine and can now wash hubby's filthy work jeans, works shirts and hoodies together. With the Kenmore I could not, because the shirts and hoodies would come out with jean lint all over them. I hope I never feel the need to go back to an old school water hogging TL machine again. If I do, it will be a wringer washer, so that I can save suds.

Post# 924219 , Reply# 61   2/28/2017 at 17:48 by moparwash (Pittsburgh,PA -Next Wash-In...June 2018!)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.

Post# 941653 , Reply# 62   6/3/2017 at 22:40 by Yaros (Canada)        

Anybody to help me about a Maytag A407 with an agitator like this one DADoES show in this link? I have to work in the inner tub, but I need to release the agitator first, but it doesn't show any nut either inside nor by side. I'd tryed to release it by force, but it doesn't work. How to do?

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Post# 941704 , Reply# 63   6/4/2017 at 09:12 by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)        

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ding dang dong, your call cannot be completed as dialed..please check the the number and try again!


Post# 949450 , Reply# 64   7/22/2017 at 14:19 by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

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So, just because this thread is already here...

I have been watching our scrap pile for a machine I could use for car rags, mop heads, general grungy stuff and found a series 90 kenmore...

The machine seems to be in ok shape except when there is a full load of water, the tub won't spin or when the tub is empty, I can stop the tub from a full spin. Also, I can turn the tub by hand as well.

The techs just keep telling me to buy a speed queen and forget about old crap, so I am wondering what you guys think..

Would it be the clutch / brake tube assemblies that need to be replaced or something with the washer drive block or what?

It fills properly, it drains properly, has a very strong agitation and I think the motor coupling is ok, but I'll double check that in a bit.

It just has the spin issues as mentioned above.

Post# 949462 , Reply# 65   7/22/2017 at 17:29 by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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yeah, sounds like a new clutch is in order.....actually a simple task to replace it....

this video will help you.....

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