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Thread Number: 31936
ISE Dishwasher |
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Post# 481428 12/13/2010 at 15:06 (4,883 days old) by rp2813  (Sannazay) |
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Does anyone know how old the dishwasher in this ad may be or what the corresponding KA model number would be?
CLICK HERE TO GO TO rp2813's LINK on San Francisco Craigslist | ||
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Post# 481503 , Reply# 2 12/13/2010 at 21:13 (4,882 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Thanks Bill. After discussing the machine with my local dishwasher expert, it sounds like ISE versions of KA's can't be any newer than early 90's vintage. Yours sounds like it's an ISE badged KDI-21, which is the same KA model we bought new when we remodeled the kitchen at our other house. Does yours have a timer knob?
I e-mailed the seller but he has not responded. I'll call him tomorrow. I may have to go look at the machine myself and decide on the spot. "Classic Supreme" sounds like a TOL model for ISE. I wonder if Hobart wouldn't let Superbas be re-badged as ISE machines. I like the idea that ISE is an uncommon badge, but with a true KA workhorse behind it. One concern I have is that it may be a portable model, based on his reason for unloading it. This post was last edited 12/14/2010 at 03:09 | ||
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Post# 481677 , Reply# 3 12/14/2010 at 14:41 (4,882 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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I Bought It | ||
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Post# 481686 , Reply# 4 12/14/2010 at 15:27 (4,882 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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More Info: | ||
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Post# 481699 , Reply# 7 12/14/2010 at 17:47 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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The latch on mine slides from side to side. That's one big exterior difference in my ISE compared to a KA. Perhaps this has something to do with Whirlpool trying to make the ISE machines look less like KA clones in an attempt to avoid legal issues.
I'm guessing that the latching mechanism on mine makes it a later (perhaps close to the last?) ISE model. | ||
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Post# 481702 , Reply# 8 12/14/2010 at 18:00 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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The Searchilator produced this picture of a 1987 model.
One less indicator light (I'm guessing the "clean" one) and one less button (perhaps an "energy saver" one). Buttons appear to be the same shape as on a 20-series KA, which seems about right for 1987. Buttons on mine are not on the lower edge of the panel but are instead where the verbiage appears on the one pictured, and don't look like the buttons on any KA machine I've ever seen. 
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Post# 481705 , Reply# 9 12/14/2010 at 18:12 (4,881 days old) by rapidry1000 (San Francisco) |
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My ISE looks exactly like the pic but in another color. Panels are reversible. The slide latch is the latter model before they ended production. | ||
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Post# 481707 , Reply# 10 12/14/2010 at 18:17 (4,881 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Sounds like one of those KDI models with the rapid-advance timer and adjustable top rack. Energy Saver Wash would turn off the water heating function. The BOL of the 22 or 23 had that feature of both wash & dry energy saver functions. On these machines, the water heats while circulation continues. The water heatingt function can extend the main wash by up to 15 minutes if needed. Just don't trash the Thermadore. let Nate have it rather than send it to the crusher.
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| Post# 481709 , Reply# 11 12/14/2010 at 18:21 (4,881 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
Thermador
Probably not, unfortunately.
Bob, we're already using the '69 Frigidaire as a tree stand :-) David has told me under no uncertain terms that the Superba 21 doesn't get replaced, so unless I start stacking, I think we'll have to re-route the Thermador. Ralph, sounds like you may have found a 22-series Superba the roundabout way after all ;-) | ||
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Post# 481710 , Reply# 12 12/14/2010 at 18:23 (4,881 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 481722 , Reply# 13 12/14/2010 at 19:27 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Bob
I will do my best to find the Thermador a new home. It's not crusher fodder just yet!
As I mentioned to another member, it strikes me that Norge fans would present the ideal Thermador demographic. ;-) Nate, are you sure you don't want to send your next door neighbors packing in pursuit of peace and quiet? For all involved? LOL! And yippeee! I found my 22 series, which is not what I was expecting, but when I had my first look at this ISE, it crossed my mind that the possibility existed for it to be of 22 vintage. However, the detergent cups and float are Hobart blue, while the rinse aid filler is white. I presume 22 series KA's have white versions of all of those items. I presumed that the sani-cycle was a KA exclusive when I didn't see it on the ISE. So I apparently have a Patrician on my hands. How cool is that? Can any of the interior elements of the KDS-20 out in my garage be used with my new ISE? Since I haven't managed to find anyone who wants the 20, I might as well strip it for any usable parts before trashing it. | ||
| Post# 481739 , Reply# 15 12/14/2010 at 22:08 (4,881 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 481752 , Reply# 16 12/14/2010 at 23:11 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Thanks for all of the good information, Steve. I will take a closer look at things you have suggested. Perhaps the pictures I'm going to post below will help with positive identification.
I don't know what the model number is on the 20-derivative in the picture above. I didn't take a picture of the model number tag on mine, but will do that and post here tomorrow. This post was last edited 12/15/2010 at 00:33 | ||
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Post# 481753 , Reply# 17 12/14/2010 at 23:13 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Pictures!
Full frontal.
Apologies for the over-exposures. I'm having trouble with the camera in non-flash mode, and flash is overkill. This machine will clean up very nicely, and will look sharp with stainless panel inserts. 
This post was last edited 12/14/2010 at 23:53 | ||
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Post# 481755 , Reply# 18 12/14/2010 at 23:17 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Panel left. I don't think those little green lights are going to confuse anyone (part of an agreement cited in the WCI/MC lawsuit).
This post was last edited 12/14/2010 at 23:33 | ||
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Post# 481756 , Reply# 19 12/14/2010 at 23:19 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 481757 , Reply# 20 12/14/2010 at 23:22 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 481759 , Reply# 21 12/14/2010 at 23:26 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 481760 , Reply# 22 12/14/2010 at 23:29 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 481761 , Reply# 23 12/14/2010 at 23:31 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 481766 , Reply# 24 12/14/2010 at 23:51 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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All For Now
Well, I've never seen a control panel like this ISE's before. I'm very pleased to have found another oddball and uncommon machine, and even more pleased that it's a reliable KA underneath. Yay for no more tower accommodation!
It seems the Thermador has launched a pattern with regard to my dishwasher purchases. An interesting angle for a potential collection. I'm hopeful that once the ISE is installed, I won't be looking for another dishwasher for many years to come. This was well worth the $25 investment, and the deal couldn't have gone any smoother. I called, I drove, I saw, I bought, all within the space of an hour. | ||
| Post# 481767 , Reply# 25 12/14/2010 at 23:53 (4,881 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 481770 , Reply# 26 12/15/2010 at 00:14 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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I wonder if the motor reverses | ||
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Post# 481771 , Reply# 27 12/15/2010 at 00:16 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 481799 , Reply# 28 12/15/2010 at 08:05 (4,881 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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ISE DISHWASHERS
We were authorized service for all residential ISE products for more than 15 years which covered the period these KA style ISE machines were built. In fact we were the only service company that would cover all of DC. A very large number of these ISE machines were sold in the DC area, which I attribute to the highly educated population as a couple clever dealers would place an ISE next to a similar KA model and with a nearly $100 price difference in the ISE favor most smart buyers bought the ISE. Even the ISE rep from Wisconsin told me on more than one occasion that they couldn't understand how so many ISEs were being sold in the DC market. Needless to say KA dealers were not so happy and I don't think this fit will into WPs plan to keep KA as a premium { over priced ] brand and they phased this out by raising the price to Emerson ISE owners. I also though at the time it made little sense for ISE to be selling large major appliances when all thier other products could be just picked up and carried as this cost ISE a lot in distribution costs for just one product. Ralph your new ISE DW is by far the most popular one we saw, it is most similar to a KD 22 serious it has the better more rugged pump with the reversing motor. Everything about it is pure KA the only different parts are the timer, selector push-button switch, door latch assembly and of course the control panel.
We still have all the parts books etc for these models if you ever need help with a pt# etc, It should be a much better machine overall than the TD DW { you know what a big fan of the TD I was ] and parts are easy to find other than possibly the timer and SEL sw. The 21 and 22 style pump have a disposer drain impeller but it doesn't come close to the grinding-disposing performance of the KD-23s and the WP Power Clean system. KA was the last builder of DWers in the US to get rid of a filter that had to cleaned by the consumer. Even though many of you are not big fans of what happened to KA DWers under WPs control they did make many improvements on the KD-23 machines. the major ones were 1 elimination of the yucky filter first KA DW ever not to have one. 2 much better rack support wheels on the upper rack tank side. 3 Vinyl coated SS side rails on the adjustable upper racks to solve the problem of early and severe rusting of the flat side rails on the upper rack. 4 fixed the problem with the detergent dispensers shorting out when they leaked by turning them upside down so the full voltage high current connections would be on the top if the dispenser ever leaked. I saw one KDI-18 where the bi metal shorted and blew a whole through the steel panel and sent sparks flying 15' across the kitchen [ WP gave them a new DWer ]. I saw several others where the dispensers went up in flames [ thank goodness for the metal tank or the whole machine would have gone up in flames. 5 they also rewired the det disp bi-metal so it was in series with the water heating element instead of the motor as KA had done since the KD-17s this eliminated the frequent service problems of DDers that did not open reliably that had plagued KA sinse the 17s ,even a dirty filter would reduce the motor amps enough that the DDers wouldn't open. If I ever were to get another KA DWer as a daily driver it would be a 23, 24 or 25. | ||
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Post# 481856 , Reply# 29 12/15/2010 at 12:25 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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John, thanks for all of your good information. It sounds like I've found the right machine. No doubt if it had been a KA brand, the seller would have been asking more than $25 for it. Some things don't change!
I'd like to find an owner's manual for my machine. Either the real deal, or a scanned one if anyone here has one. I presume that if I want the SS panels for the front, I can just provide a KDS-22 model number to the parts house if the ISE model number scares them off. | ||
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Post# 481930 , Reply# 30 12/15/2010 at 20:33 (4,880 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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More (Better) Pix | ||
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Post# 481931 , Reply# 31 12/15/2010 at 20:35 (4,880 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 481932 , Reply# 32 12/15/2010 at 20:36 (4,880 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 481933 , Reply# 33 12/15/2010 at 20:38 (4,880 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 481937 , Reply# 34 12/15/2010 at 21:15 (4,880 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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Post# 485566 , Reply# 36 12/31/2010 at 20:10 (4,864 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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The machine tested out fine and is very quiet, as would be expected from a 22 series KA. The chipped interior door panel has been changed out (thanks to a visit from Nate) and the nice minty one from the donor series 20 Superba has replaced it.
Today I ordered stainless panels through Sears parts for the front. They should arrive in about a week. This machine will be ready to install very soon. I'm going to give it the push-button controls from the other ISE I picked up earlier this week. Those buttons still have the color coded paint on them. The Supreme should look real sharp with the more minty painted buttons and new stainless panels, and will blend in beautifully with the more modern stainless appliances in the kitchen. More news it develops. | ||
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Post# 485614 , Reply# 37 1/1/2011 at 08:22 (4,864 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI ) |
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So Ralph, | ||
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Post# 485657 , Reply# 38 1/1/2011 at 12:55 (4,864 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Tim,
The WKU/Thermador machines do have their fans. There are things I appreciate about mine, such as the completely versatile top rack and its superior drying capability, but I've always had a fondness for any machine that's built to do its job quietly, effectively, and for many trouble-free years. That rules out the Thermador. It's been a fun year having it around, but I've grown tired of the racket it makes, and after owning a KA machine for 18 years, I'm spoiled. I'll either try my luck with Craig's List or offer the TT here to anyone who wants to handle the shipping. It's a very handsome and unusual machine and I don't feel it's ready for the krusher yet. It would likely perform well for someone with softer water than I have here. If I find no takers, I'll see if the Habitat Re-Store will accept it. WKU/Thermador groupies can contact me directly, or keep an eye out for a possible post here when it comes up for grabs. | ||
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Post# 485775 , Reply# 39 1/2/2011 at 00:17 (4,863 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Today I got the last of the detail work done with the controls and trim. The painted cycle selection and energy option buttons are in place and I switched the control center facade with the one that had less evidence of wear and tear. I also changed the color configuration of the buttons. The picture below is from the CL ad for the 2nd machine. If you look closely you can see that there are two colors used on the buttons. From left to right, the first four buttons have a gray accent strip and the last three have a blue one. I thought it made more sense to have the banks of buttons contain all the same color, so now the three wash cycle buttons are blue and the bank of four energy options buttons are all matching gray. I can't help it. I'm a Virgo.
If conditions around the household are favorable tomorrow, I'll disconnect the Thermador and bring in the Supreme. I ran the presumed final load in the Thermador tonight, using the Full Steam cycle for its (very loud) swan song. Peace and quiet is nearly at hand. I'm crossing my fingers in hopes of no major installation complications. I'll post pictures once the Supreme is in place and sporting its stainless panels, which aren't due to arrive until later in the week. 
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| Post# 485779 , Reply# 40 1/2/2011 at 00:57 (4,863 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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| Post# 485823 , Reply# 41 1/2/2011 at 12:46 (4,863 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL) | ||
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A bit of a preview, maybe? KD21 with stainless panels like the ones you are getting! 
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Post# 485825 , Reply# 42 1/2/2011 at 12:57 (4,863 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Yeah Steve, I can't wait for those panels to arrive!
I thought I was being smart by going to the Sears parts house here in town to avoid shipping charges. As it happened, the dude at the counter advised that the panels would be delivered to my home rather than Sears calling me when they arrived so I could go pick them up. So not only did I end up paying shipping charges anyway, but I also paid sales tax. Oh well, it's done now, and the panels will be well worth it. It's still cheaper than what I would have paid if I had ordered them through Marcone, who, by the way, advised me that they were NLA. Sears wins this round. | ||
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Post# 485914 , Reply# 44 1/2/2011 at 18:47 (4,862 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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The Machine Is In!
And it has a small leak. One that didn't present itself when I tested the Supreme in the garage. It may be coming from the inlet area up on the left side, which of course wasn't used for the test because I was filling the tub with a bucket of water. It only leaks during wash action. I can't find the source yet since the machine is snugly in its enclosure. It's dripping from the bottom of the tub but I'm pretty sure it's running down the side first. For now there's a Cool Whip tub with a sponge in it to catch the drips.
I'm done messing with things for now, but will pull the machine out again perhaps when the stainless panels arrive. It's so much more quiet than the Thermador, and I'm betting it will be even quieter with a load of dishes in it. | ||
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Post# 485920 , Reply# 45 1/2/2011 at 19:17 (4,862 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 486257 , Reply# 47 1/4/2011 at 01:08 (4,861 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Hey Steve, I'll check out the leak as you instructed in your e-mail. Thanks for the quick reply and sleuthing advice.
There's one thing I've noticed that brought back an issue I was having with my KDI-21 at the other house. The overly silent operation -- even with this very quiet machine -- is a dead give-away. Since filling the rinse aid dispenser (and it's definitely not over-filled), there are issues with sudsing. So far I haven't accumulated nearly enough dishes to justify running a normal wash, so I've only been using the Rinse/Hold option the past couple of nights. I even ran some extra Rinse/Holds in hopes of purging the suds, but they kept forming. Tonight I brought in the spa de-foamer and shot some into the sudsy water and after that it cleared up. I don't know if I'll get suds again tomorrow, though. | ||
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Post# 486438 , Reply# 49 1/4/2011 at 21:19 (4,860 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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I've run two more Rinse/Holds since the one when I added the spa de-foamer, and so far the suds haven't returned.
I think that when I added rinse aid to the dispenser, perhaps it was already triggered to release some. Oddly though, the dispenser appeared to be empty but it would only accept a couple of good squirts before it appeared to be full. I blew down in there to see if it was only a bubble, but no change, so I figured I had added enough to the reservoir. So far so good. I may check the leak issue later this week. Still haven't created nearly enough dirty dishes to justify running a wash cycle. I will work on correcting that situation, but without the accommodation for the wash tower, this machine offers significantly more capacity than the Thermador. I'm using the racks from the KDS-20. I've found that the best place for dinner plates is side to side up front on the bottom rack. The KDS-20's bottom rack has eight tines across, where the Supreme's rack has only six, and the KDS-20's front field of tines is slightly misaligned from the rear. | ||
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Post# 486525 , Reply# 50 1/5/2011 at 11:12 (4,860 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 486833 , Reply# 51 1/6/2011 at 18:58 (4,858 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Shameful Shipping
The stainless panels arrived today via UPS. The packaging appeared to have traveled through a war zone. I remained hopeful that the contents had fared OK.
Wrong. Both panels were badly bent up, and on opposite corners. UPS really went out of their way to make sure this parcel took a thorough beating, but Sears also did a lame job of packaging, providing the corrugated equivalent of an album cover with no reinforcements to the corners. Drove out to Sears parts with the damaged goods and my receipt and was quickly advised that the next set would be shipped to them, and that they'd call me when it arrived. I asked to be credited for the $15.99 shipping charge and the clerk did so, no questions asked. At least now I've achieved my goal of saving money by not ordering on line. It remains to be seen if the next set of panels fares any better. Stay tuned. | ||
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Post# 486930 , Reply# 52 1/7/2011 at 07:38 (4,858 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada) |
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Your shipping problems with Sears sounds similiar to one I had a year ago when I ordered a coffee/end table set from them. The first ones arrived damaged, as did the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th set! Finally after many, many phone calls over a 6 month period, I got a set of undamaged tables as well as a full refund for all the hassle I went through! In other words, I got free tables! I also have 5 damaged table tops in my garage because Sears did not want me to return them.
Gary | ||
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Post# 487017 , Reply# 53 1/7/2011 at 12:40 (4,858 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI ) |
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Gary, | ||
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Post# 487041 , Reply# 54 1/7/2011 at 14:29 (4,858 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada) |
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