Thread Number: 33906
Modern KA mixers
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Post# 509478   4/5/2011 at 14:18 (4,769 days old) by JaredH ()        

So-what do y'all Think of the new KitchenAid mixers? personally i still think they are superb machines,offering the same quality as the hobart ones.




Post# 509493 , Reply# 1   4/5/2011 at 15:53 (4,769 days old) by henry200 ()        

I bought my first Kitchenaid mixer (Hobart) when I was 16, and inherited, actually my partner at the time inherited his mother's probably early 60's model. When they came out with the 6 quart bowl model I sprung for it, since I'm often likely to make double batches of bread, or mashing 10 pounds of potatoes for holiday dinners. So far it's performing admirably, but the motor doesn't have the utterly smooth effortless sound of the older ones.

Post# 509500 , Reply# 2   4/5/2011 at 16:18 (4,769 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Quality

No other mixer with planetary action manufactured today, April 5, 2011 is as solid as Kitchenaid.  The best of all is the original Classic while the Ultra is okay.  The Artisan has a larger bowl, a few more watts and beaters with the same planetary system as the Classic.  The extra volume is above the beaters and of little merit.  The pro series is far and away the most powerful motor of any of the planetary machines.  Sadly most of the users have no clue how to use them so it like sending a little old lady up in the hills with HumVee while her Neon is parked at the curb.  The failure is almost always asking the machine to perform a task beyond it's limits and it strips the worm or cracks the gear case.  Don't even start on the attachments where wet grain, frozen or bone filled meat, slack pasta dough are passed through the attachments wiping out the worm follower.  The motor on the Pro Series out torques the strength of the gears and the brains and intellect of the user.  God help you if you need service on a Kenwood, DeLonghi, Cuisinart or Viking in the US.  Kitchenaid is better about repairing and standing behind their machines.  I purposely limited my review to plantentary and left out Bosch and Electrolux becuase we're not comparing apples and apples with those machine.  As a chef, culinary intructor, manufacturers representative for General Mills/Gold Medal and food technologist I have literally mixed tons of dough in all the machines and I have never had a Kitchenaid fail me.


Post# 509505 , Reply# 3   4/5/2011 at 16:34 (4,769 days old) by luxflairguy (Wilmington NC)        

THERE IS NO ONE LIKE KELLY TO TELL IT THE WAY IT IS!

Post# 509608 , Reply# 4   4/6/2011 at 00:12 (4,768 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
I prefer the lift bowl KA mixers to the tilt heads.

The thing to look for in a new KA mixer are the words, "All Metal Gears". For a while, KA was making these mixers with plastic gears, which would strip when the paddle or attachment got stuck. It seems to me the ones with all metal gearing also sport a "reset" setting on the speed control. I surmise this is to help prevent motor damage during a jam, since the metal gears are less likely to strip. But of course it's best not to try to overload any machine beyond its design specs.

I have two modern KA mixers: a 475 watt 6 qt Epicurean, and a 5 qt Professional (also 475 watts, I think). I don't use them a lot, but I think I may be hooking up the meat grinder sooner rather than later to turn roast pork shoulder into ground meat for pasta sauce...


Post# 509614 , Reply# 5   4/6/2011 at 01:07 (4,768 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
I'm a Bosch boy

here' mine.. geeze 21,000 people have viewed it in 2 years..


Post# 509624 , Reply# 6   4/6/2011 at 04:13 (4,768 days old) by mixfinder ()        
IMHO

I don't think there is an electric mixer that does a better job with yeasted dough than Bosch.  Their stylized design separates them from comparison across the board with a planetary machine.


Post# 509626 , Reply# 7   4/6/2011 at 04:29 (4,768 days old) by mixfinder ()        
All Metal Plastic

Close, Ralph but not entirely correct.  Kitchenaid has made a sacrificial gear since their inception.  It has been replaced with a"metal" gear but not necessarily hardened steel.  An errant user can still mess up the planetary or worm follower if they are savvy enough to listen and smell the operation of a machine under heavy load.  The Classic, Ultra and Artisan are still orginal in design and as a result of less metal on metal they are quieter.  When you have one of the Pro 600 series running you seriously need earplugs between the whine of the motor and the rattle of the gears.  I prefer the earlier models with Fiber gear case cover and sacrificial drive.  The larger wattage motors and the thermal overload is designed to shut the mixer down if an owner is lugging with doughs too heavy, tacky or attachment that are binding. Once cooled it will restart.  The earlier Pro Series had a thermal link that burned through and required a trip to the service center.  The function is still the same but less annoying to customers with a dead mixer after an overloaded experience.


Post# 509656 , Reply# 8   4/6/2011 at 07:04 (4,768 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
I beg to disagree

bajaespuma's profile picture

The Viking, Cuisinart, DeLonghi, and now Hamilton Beach mixers that are all rebadged Kenwoods are, in my opinion, superior to the new non-Hobart KitchenAids. They offer a 7-quart and 5-quart model. The basic design has been around for as long as the KitchenAid, but these are stronger machines. I recommend these to people who ask, but when you can buy a KitchenAid for a deal it's still worth considering.

 

Have any of you had any experience with the Electrolux Magic Mill? Looks interesting but expensive.


Post# 509670 , Reply# 9   4/6/2011 at 08:38 (4,768 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that KitchenAid stand mixers are still made in the US. If so, that is a huge selling point to me. While I'm not "buy US made or die!", if buying new (which, to be honest, seldom happens), I now try to support US manufacturing, and so I buy the domestic product if it is acceptable. KitchenAid may or may not be the "best" now, but from what I hear, the mixers are still decent quality.

One question I'm wondering is whether there is a way to easily tell Hobart from the non Hobart models? Did the Hobart name, for example, actually appear on the mixer?


Post# 509683 , Reply# 10   4/6/2011 at 09:40 (4,768 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

The stand mixers are made in Greenville, OH.

Post# 509728 , Reply# 11   4/6/2011 at 12:54 (4,768 days old) by mixfinder ()        
All Things To All People

Electrolux and to a lesser degree Bosch are niche machines designed to be good at bread first and foremost.  America holds the distinction of making butter based, creamed cakes and cookies which use double acting baking powder and baking soda less familiar outside of the US.  Kenwood, while being a planetary mixer is a belt drive so the belt becomes the sacrificial part protecting the gear drive.  Early Kenwoods had a red reset button for the thermal over load, visible when the mixer head was raised.  Still users wouldn't read the manual or retain the info making them easy marks at yard sales, sold as non working.  I was specific in my input to that end with all these mixers because they are not comparable across the board.  Kenwood is a wonderful machine.  The bowls are deeper making overflow and blow off more controlled but requiring more effort to scrape the bowl, add ingredients and see the mass at the bottom of the deeper mixing vessel.  Still the issue of available, friendly and affordable service remains for machines sharing these genes in the US.  The larger Kitchenaid's have motors made in Sweden, gears are made and assembled in Greeneville for all Kitchenaid stand mixers.  A perfect kitchen has mixers of several brands so each one can be used for only that which it does best.  If I could only have one new or current  mixer it would be a Kitchenaid Classic because of their versatility, dependability, noise factor and availability of parts and service in America.  Since buying the English dough hooks to use on the Sunbeam 10, 11 and 12 my small Sunbeam does EVERYTHING I want and offers the adaptablity of moving to a bathtub full of ingredients if i need to mix a volume of batter. I respect everyone's right to own, enjoy and enthuse over each and every appliance they buy.  My choices are based on the way I cook and what I like to eat best and insider info for having worked for both Sunbeam and Kitchenaid.  With a card board box full of parts I can keep any of the Sunbeam fleet operational until my demise.


Post# 509731 , Reply# 12   4/6/2011 at 13:15 (4,768 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Yes, Hobart machines will say so.  Usually on the metal strip around the motor/gear housing.  They show up on ebay quite regularly.

 

I was lucky enough to find a pre-solid state K45 Hobart machine in a thrift store recently and it's so much more quiet than current versions of the same model.

 

I actually prefer the tilt head models, but since I bought my partner a Professional model a few years ago, that's the one that occupies counterspace in the kitchen, which is quite limited.  If I had the room, I'd have a tilt-head model accessible as well.


Post# 509749 , Reply# 13   4/6/2011 at 15:52 (4,768 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
I use 3 mixers dependent on what I'm doing at the time.. My handheld Kitchenaid and Sunbeam stand mixer probably get the most use. The hand held for my cake mixes.. yeah I don't do scratch lol.. and the Sunbeam sans stand for a big pot of mashed potatoes and/or turnip done right in the pot.. you can't beat it for that. My Bosch is mainly for bread and stiff cookie dough. I did test it on the claim it can whip one egg white into a meringue and it did that with flying colors. The whips on the Bosch aren't really suitable for whipping potatoes, they're a little too delicate and could break so can only be used on thinner batters like cakes . The cookie paddles didn't do a good job on potatoes either, leaving them quite lumpy but they're excellent on cookie dough. Overall it's an excellent machine but pricey and probably not worth it if you're not into making large batches of dough. One good attribute though is that it doesn't weigh very much and anyone can easily pick it up and put it away on a shelf or cupboard if they don't have space to keep it on the counter.
From what I've seen of the Magic Mill/ Electrolux DXL looks far too complicated and even more expensive.. of course if someone were to offer me one how could I say no LOL


Post# 509756 , Reply# 14   4/6/2011 at 16:28 (4,768 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Petek the Magnificent

Pete has one of the largest and most varied collections of small appliances I have seen.  Cooler yet is his willingness to video, narrate and share the operations of Kenwood and Bosch as well as some of the lesser brands.  I look forward to all posts from Canada as well as Pete's friend Dave who is one of the most enigmatic charactors in the group with his junking treks, collections of vacuums, small appliances and musical instruments.  Paul's restoration videos, his love of all things turquoise and his warm and generous spirit make him a real go to guy.  Some members of the group seem a bit stand offish or perhaps elite choosing to visit among themselves and it is the ones who open to the group and share with us all that I look forward to. Mind you, there are so many on every continent who are truly special to me its mean to pick just these three, but the timing was right to pass a few kudos.  Trust me that takes a lot of fiber! You all give me a lot of pleasure and entertainment and I wish I were closer..


Post# 509783 , Reply# 15   4/6/2011 at 18:40 (4,768 days old) by washernoob ()        

I absolutely love mine!!!!!

:D

Best mixer I have ever used.


Post# 509826 , Reply# 16   4/6/2011 at 21:01 (4,767 days old) by parunner58 (Davenport, FL)        

parunner58's profile picture
I love my Kitchen aid. Bought from the commercial Hobart Store since at that time no chain stores sold them. I would be interested in the Bosch machine as I love to make bread and would be fun to try one. Pete, are they on the Bosch web site?

Mike


Post# 509853 , Reply# 17   4/6/2011 at 22:01 (4,767 days old) by brastemp (Brazil)        

I love mine too

See the my KA on video


CLICK HERE TO GO TO brastemp's LINK


Post# 509859 , Reply# 18   4/6/2011 at 22:29 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Let's Look

Mike, used Bosch machines turn up with regularity as the earth muffin phase wears off and some casual buyers quit the hassle of going to the health store that sold them the Bosch to buy the grain, yeast, enrichments etc to make holy bread.  Where's the Little Red Hen when you need her.  In our area the local fair does a bang up job of demonstrating and selling Bosch units and then through out the year you can find them on craigslist as low as $100.00.  If you want one I'd be glad to keep my ear to the ground.


Post# 509878 , Reply# 19   4/6/2011 at 23:57 (4,767 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

I would like a Hobart N-50 in blue, which costs a little over $2000. Since my ship hasn't come in yet, guess I'll get a KitchenAid Professional 5 Plus instead.

Bought my sister A KA bowl-lift model several years ago, and she likes it very much.


Post# 509880 , Reply# 20   4/6/2011 at 23:59 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
All Metal vs the Queen

Several years ago I did a series of head to head mixing challenges with the new all metal (roar and grate) Kitchenaid Pro600 and the venerable Kenwood Chef. 

The Kitchenaid incorporated all the flour sooner and with no assitance in the bread dough kneading.  The bread from the Kitchenaid was a touch smoother, more Wonderbread like.


Post# 509883 , Reply# 21   4/7/2011 at 00:03 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Don't Touch It

The Pro 600 has a wider, flatter 6 quart bowl which is ideal for adding ingredients without babtizing the mixer head, less splattering and this design requires NO MANUAL ASSIST i.e. bowl scraping.  The very first Kitchenaid I ever embraced because it didn't leave behind the unmixed dab at the bottom of the bowl.  Huge difference in cake mixing and cake texture with the Kitchenaid a clear winner.  A bowl scraping mixer operator would have leveled the playing field but this entire test was a no manual assist, period.  The Kenwood left flour around the outer edge of the bowl.


Post# 509884 , Reply# 22   4/7/2011 at 00:08 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Pay the Toll

A double batch of chocolate chip cookies with 6 cups of flour and 4 cups of chips.  This surprised me.  Although moth machines mixed well the Kenwood shook, stopped a few times and tossed batter and chips out the bowl when it would start up again.  The wider bowl wins every test by a land slide.  The same results would not result using a 4.5 or 5 quart bowl.  The flatter bowl is clearly cutting edge technology but the motor was so shrill I seldom turned it above number 4.  Kenwood dough tuned out on the counter shows treaks of unmixed creamed mixture which resulted in some cookies too flat and unusable.


Post# 509885 , Reply# 23   4/7/2011 at 00:11 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
The best kitchen aid I've ever used.

And so goes the urban legend of how the mixer was named.  Prior to the Pro6 and wider bowl I was an avowed Kitchenaid hater because at some point you always had to  stop the mixer and bring the bottom of the bowl to the top and then remix.  The 6 quart made a convert out of me.


Post# 509886 , Reply# 24   4/7/2011 at 00:14 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Screaming Meemie

After a few weeks of the "all metal" Kitchenaid gravel crusher, I sold it on craigs and bought the Copper Williams Sonoma Pro620 with a fiber gear case and drive, loving it's quieter voice to say nothing of the counter top wow factor.


Post# 509887 , Reply# 25   4/7/2011 at 00:16 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Are you left?

Kenwood bread on the left and Kitchenaid on the right.


Post# 509888 , Reply# 26   4/7/2011 at 00:19 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Yummy Cake

Cake is far and away my favorite dessert, tender, moist and buttery but not too sweet.  I also compared glass, shiny aluminum and anondized or darkened pans for the nuance of each product's performance.

1st, the Kenwood.....


Post# 509890 , Reply# 27   4/7/2011 at 00:21 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Aluminum Winner

Of all the pans the shiny aluminum from Magic Pan worked best.  Both recipes were baked in the same pans and oven by themselves for 22 minutes for mixing comparisons.

2nd the Kitchenaid.........


Post# 509892 , Reply# 28   4/7/2011 at 00:26 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
English Chocolate Chips

In the bake off of the cookies from the Kenwood there was more oven spread and inconsistencies.  Without bowl scraping I would have expected a similar result from a K-5 because of the inherent bowl design.


Post# 509893 , Reply# 29   4/7/2011 at 00:27 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Uptight

Cookies from the 6 quart bowl fared better and produce a consistent and usable batch of cookies from beginning to end.


Post# 509894 , Reply# 30   4/7/2011 at 00:28 (4,767 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

KA is KA. nothing can beat them. (even the modern ones)

I love using the KA for small (regular) batches and the Electrolux Assistent (Electrolux DLX in the U.S.) for huge loads of bread and other heavy dough.

As said above, they are two completelly different machines, each one with its vantages (lots of them on both) and limitations.
As I don't have other KA accessories than the pasta roller and the ice cream maker, and I've never seen the other accessories in real life, I can't talk about them.

My DLX has all the accessories, but some of them are useless, like the blender (too small), the citrus press (that's a joke, useful only if I decide to squeeze the oranges from my bonsai orange tree) and the slicer. The slicer/shredder is very good, but too slow and boring). For mousses (white plastic bowl) the DLX is horrible too (my old Philips food processor has the same horrible system) and the KA is much better.
Other thing I HATE about my Electrolux assistent is the amazing number of parts (two huge plastic containers to store them) and tons of parts to wash after a simple task.

KA is great. My choice was the tilt head artisan and I never had any issues with it.


Post# 509895 , Reply# 31   4/7/2011 at 00:31 (4,767 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
Close enough for two cigars

sudsmaster's profile picture
First, the name is Rich, not Ralph.

Second, when I got my Epicurean with all metal gears, I got two. I tested both and selected the quieter of the two, and returned the other (Costco is good that way).

Third, it is NOT a gravel grinder. It is quiet and efficient. Way more than I need, by the way.

Fourth, planetary gearsets are inherently very strong. That's because the ring gear contains the loads on the sun and planet gears, sparing the bearings or bushings. There's a good reason why these gearsets are the heart of most automatic transmissions. The gear case does not carry the bulk of the burden of the load.

Fifth, if the reset switch pops, it has thereby protected the gearing, metal or otherwise. But it's been my observation that of modern machines, there is generally no reset switch on plastic geared KA mixers. The plastic gears act as sacrificial components to protect the motor. Unfortunate for the owner because replacing those gears is a costly and potentially time consuming repair. Versus a simple reset of the circuit breaker.




Post# 509897 , Reply# 32   4/7/2011 at 00:50 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Objectivity

Lest anyone think I had a horse in the race it wasn't the case.  For years I would spec Kenwood Major mixers in the kitchen equipment inventory because I felt they held more and mixed better than a K-5 Kitchenaid.  I bought a Pro because it was different and I wanted to see what Kitchenaid was up to.  The first was an Epecurion, then a Pro6, then the "all metal" Pro 600 and finally the Pro620.  All performed flawlessly, without any scraping or assist if the speeds were slowly increased preventing plastering the goods to the side of the bowl which is why I insisted there be no bowl assist what so ever in the test..  They all are loud with the Epecurion and the Pro600 "all metal" the worst.  The Copper Pro620 was far and away the quietest and I don't know if it was a fluke or if they make sure $900.00 mixers are put together right.  I have over 30 mixers.  I have used a Sunbeam exclusively since moving back to Ellensburg this past summer because it's quiet, mixes better and faster, makes finer textured cakes and bread and is versatile enough to mix 1 cup or 10 pounds.  Kitchenaid tainted my relationship with them which means nothing to the rest of the world but I didn't care for the reminder of how much time, money and I labor I gave them to be thrown under the bus at the end.  I like the Kenwood but I cannot find enough words to tell you how much I hate the service provided for Viking, Cuisinart, DeLonghi and Kenwood in the US.  I have a new, all plastic, sleek Kenwood Chef that needs a new speed controller dial installed and I haven't found a source yet to do it.  For a year it sits in the closet while a coffin sized box of attachments are in the garage.  No mixer is any good if it doesn't work.  At the end of the day its hard to hurt a Kitchenaid Classic because if you overload it it groans and slows down but doesn't strip gears.  If you have any Kitchenaid mixer without the brush caps showing on the motor sides it is a Swedish motor and will be louder.  They all feature soft start which sounds like the death rattle until it gets going.  Kitchenaid mixers prior to the 70's are quieter before solid state but the ones made after aren't objectionable.  The name Hobart was still on the strip for a few years after Whirlpool bought the company.  The dumbest thing anyone can say is "Whirlpool cheapened or ruined the Kitchenaid mixer" because it is exactly the same machine with the exception of fused connectors instead of wire nuts.  It is hot air rhetoric not supported with any fact to say it changed.  The larger machines cannot be compared because they do not share the same design.  The Classic is exactly that, still Classicly the same.  The real tragedy is that most of the competition for the home mixer market is not worthy of consideration so Kitchenaid continues to dominate the market.


Post# 509899 , Reply# 33   4/7/2011 at 01:03 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Well Newman.............

There is no external reset on Kitchaid mixers made recently as they stop and then automatically restart after cooling.  If the mixer was an Epicurian or Pro6 it has a thermal overload which burns in two and requires disassembly to be replaced.  Gears can strip before the thermal link activates if the rpms are high enough and an obstruction or heavy load is dropped on the machine.  Gradual abuse of mixing loads too stiff or using the attachments, especially the grain mill and pasta extruder will cause gear failure regardless of a thermal overload.  You may have picked the quieter of two all metal mixers but they are still  louder than a Classic, Ultra or Artisan built on the original Kitchenaid design.  The all metal design has a throatier sound as well as the metal gearcase cover which amplifies the sound.  In a catastrophic obstruction of the planetary the sacrificial gear, metal or fiber is designed to give, minimizing the damage and subsequent repair.  Even your all metal Kitchenaid with a thermal overload can fail.  Simply repeating incorrect information does make it so.


Post# 509911 , Reply# 34   4/7/2011 at 03:29 (4,767 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Thanks for the info about the Swedish motor.  I'm pretty sure our Professional doesn't have the brush caps, and it is very noisy.  When I use the slicer/shredder or juicer attachment, the thing will even squeak. 

 

I might keep my eye out for a 600 with six-quart bowl after reading about what a great job it does.

 

My partner put flame decals on the Professional right away.  I don't know if that will make it easier or more difficult to unload on CL or whatever, but the noise factor has always bothered me.


Post# 509920 , Reply# 35   4/7/2011 at 04:46 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Another Flamer

The flame decals seem to be popular on ebay sales.  There is usually a ton of Pro mixers on craigslist because they are wedding or Christmas gifts and too big and intimidating for a casual cook.  I can keep my eyes out if you know what color want.  Thanks for your support.


Post# 509946 , Reply# 36   4/7/2011 at 08:21 (4,767 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Well, Urkel,

Both my mixers, the Epicurean and the Pro 5 qt, have "Reset" positions on the speed control. It would seem to me that this setting would be un-necessary if there was a fusible link in there. The safe assumption is that the "Reset" position resets an internal circuit breaker.

I didn't mean to imply that the metal gears cannot ever be stripped even with a reset function. But it seems logical that they would be far more resistant to stripping than plastic gearing, as well as carrying on until the thermal overload reset trips.

I believe I did say that no machine should be overloaded beyond its design limits.


Post# 509956 , Reply# 37   4/7/2011 at 08:54 (4,767 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
Mike.. check out Pleasant Hill Grains website for the Bosch Universal Plus and tons of other fun and gadgety kitcheny things. But like Kelly says they do show up occasionally in classifieds, that's how I got mine for less.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO petek's LINK


Post# 509971 , Reply# 38   4/7/2011 at 10:43 (4,767 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
"There is usually a ton of Pro mixers on craigslist because they are wedding or Christmas gifts and too big and intimidating for a casual cook."

I'm glad to learn that! While my KA is going strong, there is always the fear that it might blow up one day. I just checked the Seattle area Craigslist, and saw prices at low as $75. This was for a Classic, which is probably what I'd prefer. A Pro might be nice, but I don't think I really need the power/capacity.

I also have sometimes seen KA mixers turn up at yard sales. Summer 2009 I saw someone snag a KA Pro type mixer at a church yard sale. It looked like new--either someone who took really good care of it, or someone who quit using it after finding that it was overkill for Betty Crocker mixes!





Post# 509972 , Reply# 39   4/7/2011 at 10:44 (4,767 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
Something I'm wondering is whether any sort of maintenance is needed on KA mixers. My best understanding is that they lubed for life. Is this true?

Post# 509990 , Reply# 40   4/7/2011 at 12:36 (4,767 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

I think our webmaster's partner Fred posted a link to a clip on how to replace the grease in the planetary zone recently.  It was very educational and did a good job of step-by step instruction. 

 

If mixers sit for long periods, they may need to have the planetary re-packed.  The tell-tale sign is seepage that is easily visible.


Post# 509996 , Reply# 41   4/7/2011 at 13:45 (4,767 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Hey guys, you're both right!

It's more than obvious that no matter how the protection systems work, if they pop, they blow up, they dilatate, or they explode like a nuclear bomb of if a SOS sign starts to blink on the top of the mixer. the most important thing is that little piece that goes in front of the mixer... THE USER!

No matter how good the appliance is, if abused it's going to be damaged, that's simple as 1-2-3 and we all know that.
The density is the most important fact. 2 cups of flour and some liquid + the wrong attachment, will damage the attachment (thank god it's the first thing to break) and/or the transmition, motor, etc.
the same 2 cups of flour but with lots of liquid (less density) is OK, even if we choose the wrong attachment. (It's going to make a mess maybe, but won't hurt)

I overloaded my KA mixer with Nescafe sugar and water. The overload lasted less than 5 seconds because I could hear the different noise and reduced speed imediately. Most of the users hear the different noise and the machine loosing speed but don't care.. they just increase the speed to try to compensate. or even worse, they wonder


CLICK HERE TO GO TO thomasortega's LINK


Post# 509999 , Reply# 42   4/7/2011 at 14:04 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Let me adjust my glasses so I can see the screen.

Kitchenaid manufactures mixers specific to Costco, QVC and a few others.  The bulk of the attachments fit these mixers but just a little research will reveal the units are slightly different than the ones you find in a department store.  It can confuse owners trying to find parts, service and attachments for their mixer when the model and serial number don't pop up at parts sites and sometimes even Kitchenaid.  In the early 90's, the commercial arm of Kitchenaid mixers, Hobart, had a version of the K5 available with a visible reset button, heavier grounded cord, aluminum paddle and hook and these mixers received NFS certification for application in health care and food service.  If burdened for a long enough period, the mixer might stop and after it cooled sufficiently the reset could be pushed allowing the mixer to operate again.  These models cost an average of $250.00 more than home units offered at department stores. At that time there was an exodus from using the expensive NFS machine when an over the counter model could do the same.  On those machines, the motor was still a typical Greeneville issue.  When the Epicurian was launched it was the first model with a flatter bowl and wider paddle and all are equipped with an imported motor.  All Swedish motors have had thermal protection from day one and none of them had an external reset at that time.  If it burned through it required disassembly to repair.  The service issues with these mixers seldom come from the food service industry because most bakers and trained staff are aware of how to use them and what the limitations are.  If one did their do diligence there is documentation of angry owners with a "dead" 40 pound boat anchor they had spent several hundred dollars to buy.  From 2006 to 2008 internet sites including the Kitchanid forum were flooded with complaints of gear case cover failures, mixers that stopped mid recipe and leaking oil.  Stories of "plastic" gears began to abound and the din of frustrated customers finally reached Kitchenaid's ears.  In commercial Hobart mixers a corkscrew doughhook was always available as an upgrade to the more typical "C" hook.  It rolls the dough and does a slightly beter job of pulling dough away from the edges of the bowl.  Kitchenaid began to offer the spiral dough hook on the Pro series in 2008.  In an effort to sell more units Kitchenaid specifically advised owners not to use the spiral hook on models not designed for it.  A retaining clip was added to the beater drive to prevent upward pressure and more stress on the gearing in the planetary drive by using a spiral hook.  I used a spiral hook on the earlier models without an issue and again, I was not one who ever had a complaint about fuses, gear covers, plastic gears or mixer failure.  The composite gear cover and the worm gear were both replaced with metal parts which did and does make the mixer louder.  All metal began to appear on the boxes and in marketing.  Regardless, machines still fail and customers still complain.  In October of 2010 Kitchenaid officially closed their forum and open discussion with Kitchenaid representatives ended.  The forum now directs you to a group on facebook.  Costco does not show a wide bowl or 6 quart platform mixer and again the 5 quart models sold there are specific to Costco.  Several years ago the original Greeneville machines were replaced at Costco with the Swedish motor.  If there are no visible black brush covers on the side of a Kitchenaid mixer it has the newer designed motor.  The mixer made with imported motors is far less expensive for Kitchenaid to manufacture and rolls off the assembly line faster that the original design.  As evidenced in the picture I posted the Pro series is a total plug and play with just 4 screws giving you access to the motor and gear box.

In some cases it felt like Kitchenaid was less than forthcoming and the customer got shafted.  I worked the forum long enough to know there were shills and plants for other brands as well as hard heaeded owners who insisted what they thought or heard about the mixer should simply become fact because they had so stated.  Kitchenaid changed the gear box grease to an oderless and tasteless food safe material in the 2000s.  Some say this causes the leaking down the beater shaft and others conjecture the cork and composite seals are of lesser quality which allows the oil to leak.  If you run the mixer long enough to warm the contents it becomes more evenly viscous and less apt to drip.  Kitchenaid's answer is to run the mixer once a week for 5 to 10 minutes.  If you own a dripping mixer it is easy enough to wipe up the grease and use the mixer regardless.  If you follow the directions for replacing the gear box lubricant and use Kitchenaid branded gear grease you have solved nothing because the grease will separate once warmed and then allowed to sit for long periods of time.  Feelings and perceptions are all valid as they have basis in one's own experience.  However, facts is facts and they are harder to shout down.

 

C Hook on the white Pro6 and spiral hook on the black Pro6


Post# 510001 , Reply# 43   4/7/2011 at 14:06 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
In Action

C Hook


Post# 510002 , Reply# 44   4/7/2011 at 14:07 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Really in Action

Spiral Hook


Post# 510006 , Reply# 45   4/7/2011 at 14:57 (4,767 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Something wierd happened.

Bug maybe?

more than 50% of my post simply dissapeared after the preview and before the post.


Post# 510021 , Reply# 46   4/7/2011 at 16:09 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
The Real Answer

You are absolutely right Thomas.  Each appliance has it's own voice even with in the same brand and model.  Hear a different pitch, noise or smell something acrid is the moment to stop the machine and find out what the person behind the controls needs to change.  I would make a wild guess most of here can tell you how many pairs of jeans are in the washer or how full the bag is in the vacuum by simply listening. 


Post# 510038 , Reply# 47   4/7/2011 at 17:49 (4,767 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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Thanks for all the pics Kelly..

A couple of months ago now on the Canadian Home Shopping channel they were featuring iirc the Epicurean model as their "deal of the day" with extras like a second bowl blah blah blah. I remember checking on the web while it was on and it looked to me like that model had been discontinued in the US.. Though I could be wrong. It just got me to thinking that perhaps they were just trying to flog off mixers that they now had in overstock for some reason or another? Does that sound feasible.

I always get a laugh watching the KA segments on the shopping channel with one of the hosts "Richard" . Oh gawd how he can blather on and coo and come up with endless reasons why you should buy whatever it is at the moment. The KA rep is usually this short little woman chef named Meagan and the two of them are good for a laugh as she struggles to attach something or cranks the mixer up and drowns out Richards cooing etc.


Post# 510052 , Reply# 48   4/7/2011 at 18:43 (4,767 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Canadian Kitchenaid

Pete, you have touched on a whole new issue with Kitchenaid being manufactured in the US for the Canadian market, again with different features and model numbers.  Canadian service on the units isn't as well covered as the US with fewer repair outlets and no Canadian mixer can be serviced at an authorized repair outlet in the states.  Conversely if you buy an American Kitchenaid product and cross the border it voids the warrantee.  Owners sit screwed on all sides without being able to get the product working in a way that feels acceptable to them.  The major Kitchenaid appliances are the same but magnified by 10 because of cost, installation and having no working fridge or range can be a real drag after the second month.   It is whole other kettle of fish to flame the forum and internet sites with unhappy Canadian owners. The Accolade which had a short manufacturing run was finished out on the Canadian market but for the most part appliances are the same machines except they cost 50% more in Canada than in the US.

There was a segment on QVC showing the new Kitchenaid toaster.  Meagan has bread in one side of a 4 slicer which is in the process of toasting and the indicator showing how long it will be until the bread is toasted.  Then she puts bagels on the other side.  The lever will not remain down and half the toaster is not working.  After several attempts she says, "this one is unplugged so lets move over to the red one."


Post# 510055 , Reply# 49   4/7/2011 at 19:42 (4,766 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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Here are a couple of pics of my KitchenAid Mixer that I bought in 1985. I spent I think about $200 for this mixer at the time. The best mixer I have ever had.

Post# 510056 , Reply# 50   4/7/2011 at 19:42 (4,766 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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side view...yep its a Hobart!

Post# 510058 , Reply# 51   4/7/2011 at 19:43 (4,766 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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another shot

Post# 510077 , Reply# 52   4/7/2011 at 20:31 (4,766 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
Costco and KA bowl size

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If I'm not mistaken, Costco no longer offers either the five quart or six quart KA mixers. Instead, they have a 5.5 quart model, which I suppose my be unique to Costco, I don't know. It looks like a five quart to me, go figure.

As I recall, the Epicurean has metal gearing but the gear housing is plastic. Might be why it is quiet. The 5 qt HD Pro claims to have "all metal construction", however, I have not peeked inside to see if the gear housing is plastic or metal. As I said before, the ring gear on a planetary gear set shoulders most of the load, which is why KA may have been able to get away with plastic gear case housings. But I suppose if one is intent on mixing a batch of tennis shoes in a home mixer, anything can and will fail.

Oh, and the 5 qt model also has the burnished attachments and the spiral dough hook. The Epicurean has the older powder coated attachments as well as the C hook design. Not a big deal to me.

Of course, if one wants the absolutely "perfect" kitchen, one might want to procure one of these beasts. At 1100 watts, and 20 qt capacity, it probably could keep a small restaurant kitchen mixing it up indefinitely. And, it's "only" $1500!!!

PS-For me the perfect kitchen is the one that keeps one's family and friends well fed and happy. And a simple hand mixer can do that.




CLICK HERE TO GO TO sudsmaster's LINK


Post# 510084 , Reply# 53   4/7/2011 at 21:05 (4,766 days old) by mixfinder ()        
I stand Corrected

I am sure you're right Rich.  I don't have a Costco membership but it sticks somewhere in the recessess of my dementia there is a 5.5 bowl.  You are so absolutely right in stating the happy kitchen is one filled with food, friends and laughter.  The whole of us are so much tuned to the nuance of every appliance we touch it stands to reason our opinions and defense of what we like and believe in would be vigorous.  I purposely choose recipes and cooking styles that use more appliances, tools, pans and steps because cooking is to me what 18 holes of golf would be to an avid sportsman.  I do a lot of baking for service events and used to cater and own a small bakery.  To that end it is nice to have a stand mixer and walk off and let it cream for 10 or 15 minutes.  I love to own and try every appliance brand there is old and new.  As Pete has shown us if you can afford and have the space to store several mixers each one can be put to it's best and highest use.  My pathology requires that the appliances I own all be from one manufacturer, the glass and cups in the cupboard be a matching set and the pans be of one brand.  I currently have a Frigidaire range with a GE fridge and dishwasher that niggles the back of my mind.  I won't sit still until I find a GM fridge.  I converted from total Sunbeam to Kitchenaid in 2002 and filled the blanks with a few Cuisinart products.  After feeling like a fool for all I did for Kitchenaid I purged the house of everything but a few vintage machines and now I am back to all Sunbeam.  I cut my teeth on a Sunbeam, spent two days in a hospital bed with a Sunbeam to play with as a little kid, learned how to repair them and I love the old familiar sounds of the mixer,  how coffee smells perking, the high pitched whirl of the can opener, the quiet rush of the blender, the way the lights gleam on the chrome waffle iron and watching the toast silently disappear and then magically reappear in the T-35.  I am comforted like being surround with old friends.


Post# 510097 , Reply# 54   4/7/2011 at 21:28 (4,766 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Kelly, what a beautiful display!!!


Post# 510103 , Reply# 55   4/7/2011 at 22:15 (4,766 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Easy Come

I bought these pans pictured in the last post and worked until I fleshed out the set.  Then Sandy McLendon joined the group and wanted to sell his Farberware Advantage.  I sold these pans and sent him $600.00 and waited about 2 months and they finally arrived.  I still have most of those giving one of each pan to a friend in Oregon who likes to shine cookware.  I bought a Sur la Table pan from ebay and loved it.  Now I have 4 pieces and keep telling myself its alright not to purge and match.  Terry, I could be retired living in

the house next to you in Florida if I would have saved all I earned and not worried so much about matching.  But oh, how I love to scrub, polish and harvest the gleam.

 

Sur La Table


Post# 510178 , Reply# 56   4/8/2011 at 09:25 (4,766 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Interesting Kelly that the Classic is one of the best offers. I should have grabbed one a while ago (before I bought the compact Bosch), it was on sale in a wholesale store. I didn't get it because I thought the Artisan model might be better. Ofcourse there are differences between the European and the American models (especially voltage).

Kenwoods are widely available here ofcourse. They often turn up at auction sites, but as soon as one appears the bidding war starts, even on the real old ones. And now and then a KitchenAid shows up, but those are very expensive here so people want an arm and a leg for them.


Post# 510203 , Reply# 57   4/8/2011 at 10:43 (4,766 days old) by Hunter (Colorado)        
I have a Kenwood Major

I bought in the early 1990s because I wanted something larger than a 6 quart bowl.  It has performed pretty flawlessly over the years.

 

Interestingly enough, my motor DOES have the  reset switch, but it is green!  I wonder if this motor is made in Japan, though, as there's a pictorial representation of the mixer, with its 'arms crossed' frowning, saying 'no!' I have often seen such pictures on goods from Japan. (Though this could have been for the Japanese market, who knows?)

 

It does leak oil a bit every now and then, but it doesn't seem to have hurt it.

 

While in UK I saw  the Kenwood that would cook was cool (it had an induction heater in it) and the video on youtube showed someone making stew in it.  Definitely a niche market.

 

 


Post# 510225 , Reply# 58   4/8/2011 at 13:06 (4,766 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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I'm not too fussy when it comes to pots and pans matching. We have one mediocre set which suffices but I have a plethora of different frying pans in different sizes, types etc. Seems like whenever I see a nice looking frying pan on sale I end up buying it. Probably the worst frying pan coincidentally that I've ever had was a KitchenAid branded one,long gone now and I don't even remember if it was teflon or ceramic inside,, just that it was a blue one and something about either the teflon or ceramic all cracking and coming off so I tossed it. Fortunately I only paid half price which is when I usually buy them.. never full price lol.

Post# 510255 , Reply# 59   4/8/2011 at 14:42 (4,766 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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Hey Mike, I like that maroon/brown colored band on your mixer.  What model and wattage is it?

 

Here's a comparison shot of my basic Hobart K45.  No Hobart ID on the band or any precautionary verbiage, just a straight-forward mixer.  The Hobart information is in the bowl base on the pedestal.

 

 


Post# 510257 , Reply# 60   4/8/2011 at 14:46 (4,766 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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The front.  I've replaced the bowl with a later rolled rim K45 type I got at a thrift store.  The sharp edge of the original bowl had made some deep scratches into the upper portion of the pedestal, which I treated with white appliance touch-up.


Post# 510427 , Reply# 61   4/9/2011 at 12:29 (4,765 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
Another Costco Discount

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Costco just issued its latest coupon book, taking effect April 14, and in it there's a $50 off coupon for their 5.5 Qt. KA Professiona/HD 575 watt mixer. The version sold on-line also includes a free ice cream maker attachment (which I assume includes an outer bowl to hold ice) available with a mail-in coupon.

Current online price is $300, which I assume is the same price in the stores, so that would bring the cost of this mixer down to $250, which is probably a quite good deal. Not to mention the xtra capacity of the 5.5 qt bowl (which looks wider than the 5 qt bowl, addressing the tight squeeze complaint about adding ingredients to the smaller version), the all metal construction (metal gear housing as well?), burnished tools, and spiral dough hook.

However I don't think I'll be getting one... unless I want to complete my collection of 5 qt and 6 at mixers, which I don't use very often anyway. There is something special about this mixer design, though, which makes them very attractive.

That said, there are some complaints on the Costco web site about the 5.5 model. People having the bowl come loose during mixing (I wonder if they attached it properly, it can be tricky), as well as the bowl mounting brackets falling off (mfg issue?). But most seem delighted with the machine, and some of the complaints do seem to be simply out of ignorance or operator error.




Post# 511934 , Reply# 62   4/17/2011 at 11:31 (4,757 days old) by wmlask (Spring Grove, IL)        
New Kitchenaid Mixer Motor Question

Last year I saw the Candy Apple Red 90th anniversary mixer and decided that I needed to add another mixer to the fleet. This mixer has a tilt head and has motor brush holders visible. What type of motor is being used on the smaller mixers? Is it from Sweden as well?

Thanks,
Bill


Post# 511949 , Reply# 63   4/17/2011 at 13:20 (4,757 days old) by mixfinder ()        
What's Old is New

The majority of tilting head Kitchenaids have the original motor design still assembled in Greeneville. The Accolade, a 5 quart tilt head mixer which is now discontinued used the Swedish motor. The easiest way to know which motor is inside your mixer is to look for the black plastic slotted caps on each side of the mixer.  These unscrew giving access to the carbon brushes.  A word of caution:  If you remove the brushes from a Kitchenaid you'll note they have three squared edges and one cut at an angle.  Unless you replace the brush in the same exact position as it was removed the mixer will not function.

For the most part the design of tilt head models has changed little in the production run of nearly 50+ years In the early 70's solid state controls were added along with crimped connectors replacing wire nuts.  It wasn't until the brouhaus of plastic gears in the past 5 years that Whirlpool replaced the sacrificial gear with one of metal construction.  The discernable change to a highly trained ear is that mixers of solid state technology and all metal gearing are slightly more noisy having a deeper or slightly more growling voice.  To make the Artisan a 5 quart machine and upsell it's larger bowl capacity Kitchenaid added another inch or two to bowl height.  Whether it is useable added capacity is in the eye of the operator.  In my experience it made the addition of ingredients a touch more difficult because it reduced clearance between the mixer head and top of the bowl. A bowl filled to the top leaves the top 3 inches of batter above the level of the paddle less engaged than at the bottom of the bowl.  Regardless in the majority of US kitchens few users mix bowls full, run a mixer long enough to care about the nuanced voice of the machine or find anything to be critical of.  It is the rainbow of colors and everything in between that drives the sale of the Artisan series.  Some models of Artisan come with a glass bowl and it is available through most parts outlets to fit tilting models from the 60s  forward regardless of model.  The glass bowl is quite heavy and flares more at the top giving more room for user interplay with the ingredients. All bowls from the tilt model including the glass bowl of the 4C are interchangable.  There is a 3 quart bowl which can be purchased as well.

Models names have changed recently and the Ultra is now called the Classic Pro, the retired Epicurien has come back to badge a 5.5 narrow bowl machine and in Canada the monikers are different still.  In actual operation it is hard to find a discernable difference in power or peformance between the Classic and more expensive models.  The Classic remains the quietest model Kitchenaid sells.

There have been myriad little issues with the bowl staying put on bowl lift models in the past few years.  My guess is that subtle changes in the specs for metals used for the bowl and bowl retainer clip have changed the fit and finish.  If you are having these issues check the screws in the bowl retainer clip to be sure they're tight and also check the bowl to be sure it is not out of round.  In a few isolated cases the bowl arm itself is out of shape.  Heavier dough and especially pasta dough seems to be the culprit in unseating the bowl while mixing with a dough hook.  Kitchenaid sells bowl clips that secure the bowl over the forward hooks on the bowl arm assembly.  It should be noted that using the clips can etch or scratch the paint on the arm over time.

The Swedish motor provides more torque than the original and is more capable of doing damage to the gearing in a catastrophic obstruction such as an errant spoon or bone fragments in meat that is being ground.  Most gearing failure is due to stress and strain over a longer period of time with yeasted doughs, using the pasta extruder or grain mill. There are better choices for grinding grain in machines that are specifically designed for that purpose.

For those members living in Canada and abroad service is harder to source and taking a Kitchenaid appliance with a US designation out of the country voids the warrantee.  If you have a Canadian machine it cannot be serviced by an authorized Kitchenaid repair outlet in the US.  Service in Canada is provided by contracted technicians and it makes the broad blanket of service harder to find.  It should also be noted that Canadian appliances cost an average of 50% more than their US cousins and the cost of Kitchenaid overseas is exponentially higher.  Kitchenaid mixers sold in Europe, Asia and Australia have an extra retainer ring that fits over the top of the beater.  In order to use the ice cream maker attachment this must first be removed from these models.

All in all Kitchenaid has been pretty good about seeking a resolution with disgruntled customers and are far and away ahead of the competition in this area.  It has been my experience that buying Kitchenaid mixers from ebay, yard sales and classifieds expose the buyer to risk of buying a machine that may have an issue the owner couldn't resolve.  Kitchenaid sells "remanufactured" items that may have been a salemans sample, store display or exchanging  a larger and sometimes noisier bowl lift model for a tilting head. In my days of working at Sunbeam I encouraged buyers to considered a factory serviced resell becuase it gave Sunbeam a second chance at getting it right.


Post# 512006 , Reply# 64   4/17/2011 at 20:14 (4,756 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Kelly gave a very thorough answer except I think he forgot to add that the mixers with little black brush caps on the head are the original US-made motor design, while the ones without the brush caps are the more recent Swedish design.

Personally I think a brushless design is probably better due to less maintenance and perhaps quieter operation but Kelly might disagree.

On a personal note... I visited Costco today and couldn't resist getting a Silver 5.5 qt 575 watt lift bowl unit during the $50 discount period. There was a stack of mail-in coupons for a free ice cream maker attachment (presumably an outer bowl to hold ice) so I took one of those too. Could be useful for whipping cream and egg whites, too.

The 5.5 bowl model is advertised as being of all metal construction with all metal transmission. Haven't unpacked it as yet. The display model does show that the 5.5 qt bowl is significantly wider than the 5 qt bowl. Probably the same width as the 6 qt bowl.

The Costco 5.5 qt model comes in three colors: black, red, and silver. The silver is more of a shiny gray. Works for me!


Post# 512097 , Reply# 65   4/18/2011 at 00:54 (4,756 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Good News

I'm anxious for you to try the wider bowl design, Rich.  It was the first time I used a Kitchenaid and loved the quick and thorough mixing action.  I  wouldn't be surprised in the narrow bowl tilt head design goes away in the next year or two.

 

The ice cream attachment works well and I have a new 38 inch belt to prove it.  The outer bowl is filled with liquid and must be frozen 24 hours before using. It has been my experience freezing the bowl in a stand apart deep freeze chills the bowl better giving more useful time for mixing and freezing the ice cream.  I am sure you know this already but adding 2 tablespoons vodka prevents the formation of ice crystal in the finished product and the flavor is undettecactble.

 

The older motors built in place with the field circiling the interior of the motor head cavity have been dependable but have less power and and are more expensive to build and maintain. The import motor is clearly more powerful, less expensive and has its famous plug and play design. 

 

It was buried my long response.  I am taking steriods and using a nebulizer 4 times a day so my fingers are on speed coupled with my inherant verbosity.  I continue to work on editing and appreciate your help, Rich.

 

The majority of tilting head Kitchenaids have the original motor design still assembled in Greeneville. The Accolade, a 5 quart tilt head mixer which is now discontinued used the Swedish motor. The easiest way to know which motor is inside your mixer is to look for the black plastic slotted caps on each side of the mixer. These unscrew giving access to the carbon brushes. A word of caution: If you remove the brushes from a Kitchenaid you'll note they have three squared edges and one cut at an angle. Unless you replace the brush in the same exact position as it was removed the mixer will not function.


Post# 512103 , Reply# 66   4/18/2011 at 01:42 (4,756 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Thanks Kelley. I didn't miss your passage... but it still doesn't say which is which... I know from previous posts of yours that the older design is the brush design and is made in the USA. But from your passage it could not be established without a doubt that you are saying that the motors without the brush caps are the import Swedish design.

To summarize:

Brush caps on side of motor housing: Original USA made motor

No Brush caps and solid state control: Import Swedish brushless motor




Post# 512142 , Reply# 67   4/18/2011 at 11:32 (4,756 days old) by mixfinder ()        
So Many Words

Thank you Rich for clarifying.  I am the world's worst proof reader and simply read what I want to see regardless.  In reading some of what its apparent I use too many words and modifiers and having referred to several mixers or subjects I may later refer to "it" and "they" leaving the reader in the dust trying to decide which "it" is being referred to.  Add to that old age, a month long course of oral and inhaled steroids and my fingers have experiencedall nighter keyboard frenzy as you have all been party to.


Post# 512148 , Reply# 68   4/18/2011 at 12:38 (4,756 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Pro 600 vs Pro 610 vs Pro 620

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Kelly, rather than PM you about this, I thought it would be more informative for everyone to have you answer here.

 

From what I've read above, it sounds like the 620 is a quieter machine as a result of having a fiber gear case.  I'm not exactly sure about what the difference is with the 610.  Does it have a fiber gear case as well?  I presume the 600 doesn't have the fiber gear case and would be as loud as my Pro HD.

 

As you know, I'm shopping for my sister's 60th birthday present.  I want to give her the more quiet of the 600 series models, and so far have found 620's for $399 factory refurbished.  If any other of the 600 series models would be equally quiet, I know they can be found for less money, but if the 620 is the quietest of the three, then that's what I will focus on.

 

Thanks for any clarification.

 

Ralph


Post# 512175 , Reply# 69   4/18/2011 at 15:45 (4,756 days old) by mixfinder ()        
In My Humble Opinion

At Kitchenaid forum we were deluged with complaints of excessive noise and size making it cumbersome for average home use. Many tried and true Kitchenaid owners upsized and gifted or sold the former models and then wished for them back. Kitchenaid was good about placing customers in a machine they would like at no charge. Then the attachment craze hit, all nighters on QVC and department stores upselling attachments and having them included free. The majority of Kitchenaid buyers use Kitchenaid mixers as kitchen art because they're trendy. When a novice who hasn't had broad exposure decides to bake bread, extrude fresh pasta and grind wheat, tasks the machine is perfectly capable of doing but if the consistencies are off, or if the dough kneading for 20 minutes is goo, then add a few drinks on a Saturday afternoon and you'll get in trouble. Gearing issues weren't a problem in the early machines because the motor would simply bog down or stop. Introduce the new motor than hits a jam or groans though gummy dough and gearbox issues began to appear. Take the mixer to a repair shop and the friendly counter person would say, we'll replace the "plastic" gear and you'll be on your way. Whirlpool does indeed own Kitcheniad and the rumble became a chant "Whirlpool bought Kitchenaid and ruined it" grew. Viking and Cuisinart were hot to sell mixers and a lot of complaints were planted and placed by company sympathizers. No amount of explaining the sacrificial gear was always there, once fiber and now a resin derivative could quiet the deluded masses. Cuisiniant and Viking touted all metal gears but failed to mention the machine is powered by PTO and plastic belt. No sweat to Kitchenaid, they put a pot metal sacrificial gear in place and off we go.
Separately the early Epicurian and Pro6 had a composite gear case cover. In cases of extreme abuse or catastrophic jam at higher RMPs the pressure on the gearbox would cause one of the retainers to break off the side of the composite cover. In the end, Kitcehaiid replaced the composite cover with metal, not because of it being a "known" issue but to quiet the internet hue and cry. The changes make the gears rattle and the metal cover reverberates it. I have a Pro 620 and it does have a composite gear cover and it is quieter than the 2 Pro6, and noticably louder than the Pro600. Never, ever did I have an issue with the performance, durability, or strength under load. I did and do object to the noise compared to my K45 and K5. I can't answer to current production of 610,copper with copper band around the bowl and Pro620, copper with a stainless bowl. It may be possible WS requested it to have a quieter machine. I am out of the inside loop since this past October so any since would be hearsay.


Post# 512317 , Reply# 70   4/19/2011 at 08:20 (4,755 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Very interesting, Kelley.

I guess my Epicurean may be one of the early ones, since it is rather quiet and as I recall when I peeked under the top it has a composite gear case cover. Good to hear that it's not going to fail unless really abused.

I have a bread machine for making bread... although I am planning on firing up the meat grinder attachment to make some ground pork out of a pork butt/shoulder I purchased yesterday. It will be the first time I've tried that; I'm thinking I'll also use it for the maiden voyage of the 5.5.

You're right, the KA mixers - esp the lift bowls - are good kitchen art. But they ARE big and heavy. There's really only one spot in my main kitchen where the mixer can sit and operate - to the side of the cooktop on the peninsula. That's because it's the only place with enough clearance under the cabinets (which in that location are level with the lower edge of the range hood). In the enclosed patio, there is at present no good place for it. The one spot where it could live is currently taken up by a microwave as well as a collection of battery chargers (which I think I'll eventually move to the workshop). Once the battery chargers move and the microwave slides over, I think I could place a big KA mixer in that spot. I've noticed that whatever surface it's on needs to be very stable, as in an attached countertop. A free standing table just tends to wobble a bit too much with the planetary gyrations.


Post# 512375 , Reply# 71   4/19/2011 at 14:15 (4,755 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

Kelly, how do the Hobart N50 mixers vary from the 5qt. KitchenAids? There are some obvious appearance differences, but what acccounts for the Hobart costing six times as much? Do the Hobarts handle the attachments better than the KA's?

Also, do KitchenAid and Hobart make their SS bowls, or do they have them made by another company such as Polar Ware or Vollrath?


Post# 512377 , Reply# 72   4/19/2011 at 14:39 (4,755 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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The model KA mixer I have is K45SS and the wattage of the motor is 250 watts MAX. She isnt as big as some of the larger KA mixers but it gets the job done. It has never stalled out with heavy cookie batters or even bread dough. The bowl is just the right size of me. This mixer is still going strong after all these years. They certainly dont make them like they used to.

Post# 512651 , Reply# 73   4/20/2011 at 17:15 (4,754 days old) by mixfinder ()        
N-50

 

The N-50 formerly called model G was sold door to door. When the divide between Hobart commercial and Kitchenaid for the homemaker began to widen, in addition to the Model G/N-50, governor controlled mixers that control beater speed by adjusting motor speed were sold door to door for home use though the late 40's. The larger N-50 or its predecessor the model G was based on the commercial mixer which uses a transmission to change beater rpms while the motor runs at a constant speed. You MUST stop the N-50 mixer and allow the beater to come to a complete stop before shifting gears to prevent severe damage to the gear box. Like riding a 3 speed bike, the heavier the pull or load the lower the gear you shift to. The N-50, under a heavy load on speed 3 can stall. I have both a model G and an N-50 which has a 1/8 horsepower motor like you would find in a washing machine. It can run all day without producing great heat or stress to the motor. Later models of the N-50 have a 1/6 hp motor. I find the wider mixer head which  accommodates the larger motor of the N-50 makes it harder to add ingredients to the bowl and regardless of cost or motor at the end of the day all you have is a 5 quart bowl for your investment. The N-50 has 3 speeds which require stopping the motor before changing; it weighs 44 pounds and costs nearly $2,700.00. In my own experience I prefer a tilt head model for ease of adding ingredients and having infinite speeds makes a mixer more user friendly. An N-50 might be a wise investment for someone needing to use the power hub commercially. Every attachment designed to fit the attachment hub in the whole history of Kitchenaid is interchangeable, old on new and new on old. The ice cream attachment can only be used on selected models because it is attached to the planetary.

 

I did not mean to denigrate the original K-45 and K-5 by saying the power of the motor didn't strip the gears. There is a difference between power and torque and the Swedish motor can torque the gearing of the Kitchenaid mixer beyond its tolerances given the right circumstances. I am not a great fan of appliance attachments regardless of any brand. If you're blending and you wish to grind or grate and have only one motor to use it is laborious to keep assembling another part and stop the mixing process while doing so. I have only, ever had one Kitchenaid mixer performance issue and it was while grating yams. Should the Artisan be able to shred a yam?  Was I pressing too hard and was the yam larger and more firm than most?  Yes to both answers so I would have to be fair and say the gear failure was due to operator error.  Kitchenaid replaced the mixer under warrantee and in 3 days from phone to box at the door I was back in business. I have Kitchenaid in the collection but most often choose a Sunbeam because it performs better with the style of cooking and baking I do. I have a blender, processor, White Mountain Ice cream maker, and electric can opener, prefer flour milled before it comes home and roll pasta by hand because it's faster. That said I have also used all those attachment, taught their use commercially and tested them in my home with residential mixers. For that reason I would have a hard time justifying the expense of an N-50 and it would frustrate me that I cannot take the mixer to a larger vessel and mix larger volumes of batter or dough. It only stands to reason if you do a lot of cooking and run every attachment from one power source the mixer get more wear and is subject to failure sooner.

 

Each person who buys and uses a mixer should have what ever pleases them and meets their expectation. It isn't as if there will ever be a right or wrong. I cook because I was fascinated with appliances before I could even speak. I am all about using each machine to its absolute fullest for convenience and fun. Its like having a garage full of performance cars and getting to take them on the track each day and see how they perform. When I was younger I bought one of everything I ever heard of and for a spell would use it and extol it's virtue. As I get older I find I am returning to those machines that work intuitively.  I can become one with them, not even looking to find the switch that activates it or reach for release and wonder which way the lid twists on to activate the processor. In professional capacities with Sunbeam, General Mills, Centennial Mills, Riches, Sara Lee, LBA, Lang Ovens, Whirlpool, Stouffer Hotels, 3 teaching colleges, 5 major distributers, 53 food manufactures, working with restaurants, health care, schools, military, chain accounts and wholesale food manufacturing I had the rare privilege of seeing first hand how every appliance, attachment and tool performed. It was my job to test each one and choose which maximized the presentation of the products I represented. Conversely I had to be ready to adapt and test the tolerances of the products I represented if the site I was at did not the correct machine specified in the directions attached. I would say" there is a perfect world and then one we live in"  and some times we have s##t what we need.

 

Cooking flows from within the depths of my soul. Its wonderful to take a full day pouring my soul into a dinner for people I love and expressing love without making guests self conscious.  There are times like last night when guests were coming at 6:00 and I didn’t get home until 4:00.  I had already planned the menu and had only a couple hours to prepare. Those opportunities allow me to return to the trenches and pull up efficiencies, time management and multi tasking, and using all the short cuts I know.  My mom began years ago trying to make every task easier, lighter, less steps, less work and today she’s a bowl of  jell-O.  I was tempted to change the menu or augment homemade with something off the shelf but her words ring in my ears and always propel me to do it the way it should be done. The Sunbeam mixer made a genoise, kneaded dough, mixed salad dressing, and whipped cream.  The processor mixed pasta and sliced strawberries.   The electric frying pan browned the multi layered ingredients of Beef Bourguignonnne  then braised it, holding perfect temperature.

 

Its never my intent to sound smug, put any one down and especially not to be critical of something another person owns or has just purchased regardless of my own convictions. Pride of ownership is wonderful feeling and should be exalted.  Food, appliances and cooking are how I made my living and have been the one and only thing I know how to do well.  After 50 years I should be good in the kitchen or give up so I hope my words regarding food doesn’t come off as bragging.  As I said earlier, if everything I owned were destroyed today and I was choosing a replacement from the shelf of a department store, I would buy a Kitchenaid Classic because it is dependable, backed by the best customer service in the states, affordable, will do everything I need, is intuitive to use and is relatively quiet.  That said, any mixer is better than no mixer at all. 

 

Let me introduce the line up beginning on the left.  The denuded mixer is a K-4 that survived a house fire, has a 4 quart bowl with paddle, whip and dough hook, appearing in the late 40's and selling until the late 50's.  The K-4 is very quiet.  Next is the model 3 introed in 1937 with a three speed motor and a cool whip/paddle that looked like it had a cocktail strainer in the middle of a paddle.  This mixer would soon have a 10 speed motor and all purpose beater that resembles a pastry cutter.  The 3 and 3B was produced until its replacement by the 3C in 1951.  The 4C followed the the 3C in 1959 and was discontinued in 1974, having a bowl that not only held more but it's rounder shape meant less slpashing.  (I have a friend that says Kitchenaid mixers have two speeds, 2 feet and 6 feet depending on how far they throw food)  All models of the 3 and 4 had only 1 all purpose beater. Next the ubiquitos Classic with a 4.5 quart bowl hence model K45, that sports a dough hook, whip and paddle.  This model was introduced in 1959 and is still available.  The dazzling copper Pro620 proprietary to Williams Sonoma, has a 6 quart bowl that is wider and flatter than any Kitchenaid before.  Its mixing dynamic is phenominal requiring no manual assist and mixing thoroughly and evenly top to bottom.  The flatter desing allows more room for adding ingredients and it splashes and poofs flour less than narrower profiles. The Pro series all have the Swedish motor we have spoken to that has a higher pitch and whine to it's voice.  This model has a fiber gear case cover and internal thermal fude that will stop the machine if it senses it is overloaded.  The mixer will begin again in 2 - 10 minutes depending on how long it had been running. Of the four Pro series I have owned the copper Pro620 is the quietest, but still persisitent in mixing for long periods or at higher speeds.  The silver behemouth is a chrome Model G made in the mid 30's and purchased at an estate sale in the midwest.  It has a 5 quart bowl and the three standard beaters.  Any bowl or beater that fits a K5 is interchangeable with an N-50.


Post# 512653 , Reply# 74   4/20/2011 at 17:18 (4,754 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Cool Dude

Thank you Jared for initiating a discussion that has been fun and interesting for me.  You haven't told us which model of Kitchenaid you have or your experiences related to it which would be nice to hear.


Post# 512715 , Reply# 75   4/20/2011 at 22:32 (4,753 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
I yam what I yam...


Post# 512723 , Reply# 76   4/20/2011 at 23:54 (4,753 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Chuckle

Rich, you have a delicious mastry of lexicon and it serves you well here.  I yam so glad I didn't use sweet potatoes.  Thanks for keeping me legit, on point and ever challenging me to be on guard. 


Post# 512732 , Reply# 77   4/21/2011 at 00:12 (4,753 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Kelly,

You sure are mixing it up there.

After reading about your mixing adventures I guess I don't feel so bad about accumulating three lift bowl KA mixers in the past 10 years: the 475 watt 6 qt Epi, the 475 watt 5 qt Pro, and the 575 watt 5.5 qt Pro. Although the 5 qt and 5.5 at are still new in box, I guess I'll always have a spare ready if need be! And I really do plan on unboxing one or both of them soon, as I'd like to be able to leave one in the main kitchen and have a second one ready to go in the enclosed patio kitchen. And there's always the Model 9 Sunbeam to fall back on, seems to work fine too, as well as an old five speed KA hand mixer which I have stored "somewhere".

Truth be told most of the use the 6 qt Epi has gotten over the years has been grating various kinds of soap for use in the washers. I've made a few batches of oatmeal cookies in it, but not for a while. My problem is that I have to watch my carb intake (diabetes) and a lot of foods that need a mixer are high carb content. It's not that I couldn't eat some of them, but the large quantities that these mixers can prepare would be serious overkill in my case, and one can only give away so much food at work... Hence my interest for using the meat grinder attachment next.


Post# 512734 , Reply# 78   4/21/2011 at 00:28 (4,753 days old) by luxflairguy (Wilmington NC)        

Rich, it's time you gave this a rest. You always have to respond in a negative tone to the information that is being presented. And now it's like I don't bake because I can't have sugar, etc... You've said enough! Greg

Post# 512735 , Reply# 79   4/21/2011 at 00:42 (4,753 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

Kelly, thanks for the explanation. I was pretty certain the N50 was essentially the same as the KitchenAid G. I always enjoy reading about your experiences with various appliances and products - you certainly know your stuff.

What color is the K4 (or what was it originally)? What did you have to do to it after the fire to make it usable?

Are you the totally cute guy in the pic? If so, what year was it taken?




Post# 512745 , Reply# 80   4/21/2011 at 03:32 (4,753 days old) by mixfinder ()        
I'm So Glad We Had This Time Together

Its time to tweak my ear and let the thread fade away with this parting shot.  The K4 had bubbled paint and I was surprised when the paint pulled off easily in long strips.  The internals looked good and these mixers are designed to withstand some pretty high temperatures.  The cord needs to be replaced as the outer covering is cracked.  I don't use it so the replacement hasn't been a priority.  I did paint it using the same paint as this K45 but I also painted the exterior of the mixing bowl to match. I'll be wondering what you might think. when you see it in it's glory.

 

The profile picture is explained in As the Tub Turns thread 34147


Post# 512931 , Reply# 81   4/21/2011 at 22:43 (4,752 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        
Rich why so negative?

neptunebob's profile picture
It really is too bad that National Depression Screening day it not until October but your life can be better. Not only does it help to get enough fiber but have you talked to your doctor about an antidepressant? The side effects of the ones today are a lot less than they were in the 80s. Life can be better!

Post# 512945 , Reply# 82   4/21/2011 at 23:59 (4,752 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

I seem to be cultivating a spare KA farm myself.  Besides the Pro HD which occupies prime kitchen counter space, in the basement I have both my mom's old 1980-ish Hobart K45SS (in an original box) and the older K45 I recently snagged for $30.  I do want at least one tilt-head model to have around.  The older non-solid state K45 (pictured further up) is much quieter than the K45SS, so I think that one will ultimately be the keeper.  The almond color kind of kills it for me with the K45SS.

 

If I get my sister the Professional 600 or 620 for her 60th birthday, her current Ultra Power will end up as a spare.  It's spreading.

 

I think I'll wait to find a K4 and then stop accumulating KA's at that point.

 

While we're on the subject, I received my free replacement feet for the K45 in the mail this week from KA parts in Greenville.  All it took was a phone call and some patience, since they were not in stock and it took a couple of months for the feet to arrive.  Even with the wait it beats paying for five individual feet on ebay and associated inflated shipping. 


Post# 512962 , Reply# 83   4/22/2011 at 02:23 (4,752 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Yes, Ralph, these KA/Hobart mixers are so cool it's difficult not to say no to one, even if one doesn't have much actual need for them.


For those who find collecting cool machines without actually using them to be negative or depressing, I suggest you try to mind your own life.





Post# 513030 , Reply# 84   4/22/2011 at 10:47 (4,752 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Second Opinion

For those who find collecting cool machines without actually using them to be negative or depressing, I suggest you try to mind your own life.

 

I have strong opinions and have tried to reference the words I use with appliances, "it has been my experience" which can be neither right or wrong, it simply is.  Given the fact we can't see each other, pick up on inflection and facial expressions it is difficult to know your intent  Rich,  when you sometimes feel like the school ground bully or press so hard when there's room for each of us to have our own experience without making someone else uncomfortable.


Post# 513075 , Reply# 85   4/22/2011 at 14:27 (4,752 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Kelly,.

If you felt bullied you have done a remarkable job of concealing it. In any case my intent in the past week has been to clarify your pronouncements regarding KA motors. Before that, I had the flu and I have no idea what I was thinking.

Now I don't mind if someone wants to show off their cooking expertise... the photos are pretty even if the text is sometimes confusing. But next time I'll just let someone else figure it out.

I admit I'm not so diplomatic when it comes to dealing with passive aggressive behavior but of course I'll try to be more patient in future.

While we may have our differences of opinion I certainly respect your extensive experience with mixers both mechanical and culinary, and over time I have grown an increased appreciation for your contributions.


Post# 514650 , Reply# 86   4/29/2011 at 18:35 (4,745 days old) by JaredH ()        

Wow! Lets keep this goin!


Post# 514657 , Reply# 87   4/29/2011 at 19:41 (4,744 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Well...Just try to choke this down!!

It has a small bowl, and weighs a ton, but it really is the smoothest quitest thing ive ever seen, and its eighty years old!!

Post# 514660 , Reply# 88   4/29/2011 at 19:45 (4,744 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
What was that???

Every kitchen needs more than one!!! the k5-a is a 65, same age as me.

Post# 514661 , Reply# 89   4/29/2011 at 19:46 (4,744 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Well,

There are a few more, personally, I dont use a Kitchen Aid for everything, for layer cakes, I use a Sunbeam, or my 56 Kenmore.

Post# 514662 , Reply# 90   4/29/2011 at 19:47 (4,744 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
And..

A few more!

Post# 514663 , Reply# 91   4/29/2011 at 19:48 (4,744 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
MORE!

Yes...More!

Post# 514669 , Reply# 92   4/29/2011 at 20:21 (4,744 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
WOW!

rp2813's profile picture

That 80-year old Hobart is sweet!  You can't get more butch in a kitchen appliance. That is a MAN's mixer.


Post# 514675 , Reply# 93   4/29/2011 at 21:13 (4,744 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
It is..

A bit chipped and well used, but I left it that way, it pulls the ice cream freezer or meat grinder great!!! I but chuck roasts on sale, and grind my own hamburger, usually 20 to 30 pounds at a time, it just idles thru it, when I use the k5, it gets so hot you cant put your hand on it, not the old one!!

Post# 514682 , Reply# 94   4/29/2011 at 22:26 (4,744 days old) by JaredH ()        

My Experience is from an '88 or'89 ProLine-WP Made.

Post# 515818 , Reply# 95   5/5/2011 at 11:41 (4,739 days old) by JaredH ()        

BUMP -_-

Post# 515870 , Reply# 96   5/5/2011 at 16:20 (4,739 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
A few of todays flyers have the Ultra Power Plus mixer for $249 Cdn. Prices are dropping here on KA. forgot,, as well as a $50 KA coupon for accessories etc.

Post# 515894 , Reply# 97   5/5/2011 at 18:34 (4,739 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

In case anyone missed it on the other thread, I took advantage of a 20% off deal from KitchenAid on ebay and got a refurbed Professional 600 for $219 with free shipping, which was by far the best deal out of everything I'd seen on line.

 

It arrived today so I had to unpack it immediately to check how loud the motor sounded.  Much to my surprise and relief, this Swedish motor model is delightfully quiet!  I think my sister will be pleased with this machine.

 

Here's a shot of the machine in the same "Cocoa Silver" finish as the one I ordered.




This post was last edited 05/05/2011 at 23:16
Post# 515909 , Reply# 98   5/5/2011 at 20:28 (4,738 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Ralph,

Please try popping the top and see if it has a metal or a composite plastic gear housing.

It's just five screws. Easy peazy.






Post# 515934 , Reply# 99   5/5/2011 at 23:15 (4,738 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

OK Rich, I'll see if I can get to it over the weekend.


Post# 516031 , Reply# 100   5/6/2011 at 15:32 (4,738 days old) by JaredH ()        

Ralph- I Missed The other thread. would you mind Getting a link to the thread?

Post# 516041 , Reply# 101   5/6/2011 at 16:01 (4,738 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Here You Go

rp2813's profile picture

There's not much to it.  #34260 in this same forum.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO rp2813's LINK

Post# 517118 , Reply# 102   5/11/2011 at 20:53 (4,732 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Pro 600 and Pro HD

rp2813's profile picture

I took the motor housings off of both mixers and was surprised with what I found.  Both mechanisms look identical (like the Olong motor seen on Rich's "Tale of Two KitchenAid Mixers" thread -- link below) except for one thing.  The much noisier gravel crusher Pro HD has the plastic gear case and the very quiet Pro 600 has the metal one. 

 

This goes entirely against all that has been stated and/or speculated about the gear case housing material having an influence on noise level.  The only thing I noticed that might be associated with noise is the cooling fan in the back.  When rotated (with mixer unplugged) on the Pro HD, there is a distinct sound of light scraping from within the motor itself and a slight sense of resistance.  When the fan is rotated on the Pro 600, there is nothing but smoothness and silence.

 

I wonder even more now if perhaps KA got so many complaints and/or returns due to noise level that they took steps to quiet down the motors. 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO rp2813's LINK

Post# 517337 , Reply# 103   5/13/2011 at 00:53 (4,731 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Well, that is certainly interesting, Ralph. Thanks for checking out the innards.


I stopped by Costco today and was able to plug in the display Pro550HD mixer. It seemed to me it was noisier than my Epicurean, but perhaps slightly quieter than my Pro550HD at home. But of course it's really tough to compare noise levels in completely different environments and separated by time and distance.


If the gear housing doesn't have a major effect, then perhaps KA stuck a plastic gear into the Pro600 to quiet it down. I don't know if I'm willing to pop the gear housing covers on my mixers just yet, but on the other hand it is an eventual operation in order to refresh the gear grease. I would be disappointed to see a plastic gear in the Epicurean; but I'd be totally shocked to see a plastic gear in the Pro550HD, which is supposed to have an all metal transmission.



Post# 517405 , Reply# 104   5/13/2011 at 09:40 (4,731 days old) by kevin313 (Detroit, Michigan)        

kevin313's profile picture
I've had a 325-watt KA mixer in Majestic Yellow for about 12 years now and it has never caused me any trouble. I probably never pushed it to its limit, but for the jobs I have asked it to do the machine has worked like a champ.

A couple of weeks ago, my local Costco had a KA 300-watt mixer for $169. They only had it in only black or silver, but it came with a bowl shield, paddle, dough hook and whisk. The bowl didn't have a handle on it. I happened to have a Costco coupon for $50 off, so I ended up with a silver one and paying $119 for the machine. It is now at my cottage, where it has already help produce loaves of bread and dozens of cookies. In all cases, it seemed to operate just fine. So, I guess I'm a fan of the KA mixer.



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