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Thread Number: 41341
Kenmore 80 Series |
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| Post# 610868 , Reply# 1 7/18/2012 at 03:03 (4,300 days old) by frapdoodle () | ||
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| Post# 610869 , Reply# 2 7/18/2012 at 03:03 (4,300 days old) by frapdoodle () | ||
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| Post# 610870 , Reply# 3 7/18/2012 at 03:04 (4,300 days old) by frapdoodle () | ||
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| Post# 610871 , Reply# 4 7/18/2012 at 03:05 (4,300 days old) by frapdoodle () | ||
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Post# 610888 , Reply# 5 7/18/2012 at 05:28 (4,300 days old) by appnut  (TX) |
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Post# 610889 , Reply# 6 7/18/2012 at 05:38 (4,300 days old) by kenmore58 (Rhode Island) |
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In my opinion, this is one of the best machines ever made. I purchased this exact machine with the matching dryer 20 years ago when I purchased my home and it's been performing well ever since. The dryer recently had a problem, which turned out to be a minor repair.
Hopefully, it will be giving me another 20 years of dependable service. Ron Kenmore58 | ||
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Post# 610917 , Reply# 7 7/18/2012 at 08:48 (4,300 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 610919 , Reply# 8 7/18/2012 at 09:17 (4,300 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Chance -
There's a brand new 63594 on ebay with free shipping for $11.95. This is the dispenser that everyone loved to hate (women at least) as I'm told because the blue snap ring has broken many a fingernail for women when the try to release these. Pure Shredmore Bob? I must differ with you. I have one of these too, mine is a 70 series, same identical timer, but the second rinse is non-wired so its a giant OFF. My machine is very low mileage, but I've never had anything shredded or had it even come close. The speed shift isn't there either -- the Heavy Duty cycle is all fast agitation, and the Normal is 100% low speed agitation with fast spin. This is a 1992 model machine (I am guessing something like Kenmore model 110.922821x0, is that right Chance?). These were the first models with the new cycle arrangement with Normal and Heavy Duty. The normal was designed to cut-down on extended abuse (which goes along with Bob's shredmore claim) of high speed agitation that many consumers were subjecting their close to in earlier model versions, as they were setting their Direct Drives as they had their belt-drives previously, with 12-14 minutes of high speed agitation on the old Cotton Sturdy cycle. 1986 and 1988 DDs had essentially identical cycle layouts, model for model, to the 1983 Kenmore belt-drives. These 1992 models seeked to alter that somewhat so clothes would get better or more appropriate care. I have included a picture of my machine for comparison. When I use this machine, a full water level load is washed on Heavy Duty, but almost never more than 10 minutes. Partial level loads, unless they are very heavy items like towels or jeans, are washed on Normal at the 10-minute setting. Seems to work well that way. One thing I can say about this machine - it handles mixed weight loads differently than a belt-drive, in fact, some mixed loads I wouldn't put in a belt drive. If you mix sheets with heavier cotton shirts/shorts/etc. the sheets can interfere with roll-over in the DD. That would not be an issue in a BD, however, BDs don't like to spin mixed-weight loads unless they are uniformly distributed. DDs don't make nearly the fuss in spin, at least in my experience. Gordon 
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| Post# 610934 , Reply# 10 7/18/2012 at 10:50 (4,300 days old) by lebron (Minnesota) | ||
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Post# 610943 , Reply# 11 7/18/2012 at 12:22 (4,299 days old) by RevvinKEVIN (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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About 3 years ago I had an early (1984) 24" Kenmore (spin drain) DD washer. I had run a few loads through it with no issues, until I did a load of dress shirts. One shirt did get damaged and while it wasn't literally in shreds, it was no longer wearable. I was pissed. At that moment I said to my self "it sure earned it's 'Shreadmore' name" and I sold it the following week.
On the flipside, I currently have a TOL KM Elite Catalyst (3 speed) washer that I like a LOT. I've run numerous loads through it and have not had a single issue or problem with damage clothing.
I believe the reasons for this are: #1 the wash basket is bigger (wider). #2 the agitator profile is different (not including the auger). #3 on lower water levels the agitation is automatically set to a slower speed. #4 it only agitates at the fastest speed on the highest water level and/or on the Heavy Duty cycle.
Kevin
This post was last edited 07/18/2012 at 13:16 | ||
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Post# 610947 , Reply# 12 7/18/2012 at 12:38 (4,299 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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I agree with Kevin completely.
The original 2.4/2.5 cu ft. baskets are very tall, narrow cylinders essentially, as compared to more uniformly sized (nearly as wide as tall) standard capacity belt-drive tubs. I think these tall slender tubs, which were most often linked to lower MOL and BOL one-speed units, are less likely to properly roll a load, as there is a lot of vertical travel required, and not much side to side space to get the action rolling. Proper loading is the key. There is no doubt that a DD CAN abuse laundry, but so could a BD if mis-used. I think DDs are simply easier to mis-use. This is why KM re-designed the premise of the cycles in the early 90s, so users would be more likely to wash for fewer minutes at slower speeds. Using the new Normal cycle at 10 minutes with slow agitation won't harm laundry, but if the user still insists, it can be done on the Heavy Duty cycle when 14 minutes is selected. Some DDs even have 18 minutes of wash I believe - enough to dissolve some old towel I think... But, other people's experience aside, factual or not, if WP's 100 million direct drive washers were all shredding clothes on a regular basis, WP would be bankrupt from the damage claims by now, OR the machines would have been re-designed 80-million washers ago. Gordon | ||
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Post# 611019 , Reply# 13 7/18/2012 at 19:12 (4,299 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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KM DD 80 Series Washer
I agree that this was one of the best and most reliable automatic washers EVER and having worked on over 10,000 DD washers over the last 25 years I have never had a customer tell me that a DD washer damaged any clothing [ and I have had some crazy customers ] This KM DD washer with the Dual Action Agitator is probably more genital than any MT DC washer ever made when properly used.
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Post# 611021 , Reply# 14 7/18/2012 at 19:34 (4,299 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Unless you don't know how to use it properly.
Uhhh, pardon me Dave. But I've beren doing laundry IN THAT Shredmore before you were evfgen born. (I think I know a thing or two about edoing laundry. Unless you are saying 25 differeent people (yes I've kept count and there are more) who do not also know how to do laundry. You have to baby with loads with heloluva of water that's very waste But then agaihnj, I had a loose knit cotton sweater (the bulky knd, that I washed allk by itself on 3/4 watedr level and it stillk ripped holes in my sweater on gentle. So do NOT go there.
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Post# 611030 , Reply# 16 7/18/2012 at 19:50 (4,299 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.)) |
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Very nice Vintage DD Kenmore | ||
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Post# 611031 , Reply# 17 7/18/2012 at 19:58 (4,299 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Mine being the original DD LK, it didn't have shift to gentle during the middle of the wash. I generally washed thihngs for 6 minutes no longer than that. I'd soak for a long time if soil level needed it. Just too rough on fabrics without that switch to gentle in themiddle of the cycle. And because of that, the only thing I washed on normal were towels, everything else got washed on 8 minutws of delicate.
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| Post# 611033 , Reply# 18 7/18/2012 at 20:20 (4,299 days old) by xraytech (Rural southwest Pennsylvania ) | ||
Great washer, I grew up with a set just like it.
My mother purchased a new 70 series Kenmore DD and matching Soft Heat dryer in 1988 when I was 2. It replaced a well worn hand me down GE set from the mid 60s. We had our 70 series washer until 2001. We washed everything in that washer for 13years and never had an issue, we even regularly washed lace tablecloths, and doilies as well as lace curtains and even their being so delicate they never shredded, and they were typically washed on Normal. Not to mention these were very reliable washers, as up until the last year and a half before we replaced the washer it never had an issue, and we do nearly 20 loads a week, and there were lots of times that grandma did her wash with it too on top of our regular loads. We replaced our 70 series with a 2001 80 series which performed flawlessly, I just recently sold it to a student of mine and ts still going strong. I must say the only thing I noticed being kinda rough was my clothes, especially scrubs would come out of the washer all tangled up | ||
| Post# 611053 , Reply# 19 7/18/2012 at 23:36 (4,299 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California) | ||
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Post# 611164 , Reply# 21 7/19/2012 at 10:12 (4,299 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Melvin -
Sears did something different with the 1986 DDs that they hadn't done in about 12 years --- they differentiated the consoles again between their better selling series. Not as dramatically as had been in the 1970s when almost every model had its own console, but the 60 and 70 series machines had monotone black panels, whereas the 80 and 90 series models had the brushed aluminum accent trim which separated the timer bezel area from the rest of the panel. This was present on the all-new 1986 line, and on the 1988 versions, which were almost identical to the '86s. All or most of the few models introduced in 1987 and after 1988 to 1992 were given the same cosmetic treatment. What this did, and I presume its why Sears did it, is prevent buyers from getting a near TOL washer, and a MOL or 60 series (for example) dryer to go with it, or vice versa, at least without having consoles that obviously don't belong together. Previously a buyer could have bought the entry level black panel 60-series dryer and a near TOL washer and the panels would have matched perfectly. I did that in fact when I got my sister her set. In the 1986 configuration, the 60 dryer would have had an all black console, and the 80-series washer would be similar in frame, but have the large and noticeable silver trim. I am thinking that Sears wanted to "encourage" buyers to get both of the more pricey appliances instead of just one. In 1992 this changed, and all models having a metal console got the silver trim, even the 60 series. People must have complained... Gordon | ||
| Post# 611259 , Reply# 22 7/19/2012 at 22:17 (4,298 days old) by fsp95405 () | ||
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Gordon Was there ever a Kenmore 90 series DD to which had the Suds Saver feature? How common are the Sud Saver DD's? | ||
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Post# 611265 , Reply# 23 7/19/2012 at 22:52 (4,298 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Melvin -
I don't know the answer to that question. The resource saver DDs were rare overall I think, and probably even more so in Charlotte. Nobody has laundry tubs. What's the model number of your current machine? I can take the digits from that and fenagle with some permutations of numbers and see if I can come up with anything. The numbering scheme with belt-drives doesn't turn up any DD suds models in the 1980s or early 90s. As an example, 110.82372110 was a non-suds, and a 110.83372110 is the suds version. If the same convention was used in DDs, the suds/resource savers would have a 3 in the second digit right of the decimal. There are none like that in my book from the 1980s to 1991/2, but the non-suds DD models have model numbers of the same format as BDs. I didn't find any on Sears' site using the 110.93* search feature either. Sears probably changed the model number scheme for these. Gordon | ||
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Post# 611305 , Reply# 24 7/20/2012 at 07:38 (4,298 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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DD Washers With built-in Suds-Savers
These did not appear till the mid 1990s. Before this time and starting in the mid 1980s when the change over to DD washers was almost complete WP{ and Sears tried an add on mechanical Suds-Saver attachment that could be used on any DD washer after about 1985. There was a space on the timer dial between two off periods where you could get the washer to dry agitate and pull the saved suds water back into the washer, even the LKM limited addition had a little * on the control panel so you could do this. Unfortunately these add on SSs didn't work reliably and after many problems, floods etc they were discontinued.
Some time in the early 1990s both sears and WP introduced one washer model that had a real built-in Suds-saver. This SS washer used the same Two Way valve that the BD machines had used since 1948 making this part the only significant part that was used on both the DD and BD washers. These new SS washers were called water saver machines by Sears as they allowed you to save either the wash OR rinse water in the amount of 16 or 23 gallons via a selector knob on the control panel. WP called their washer just a Suds-Miser and only allowed you to save the wash water like earlier Suds-saver machines. These new machines were sold for around 10 years or so and show up fairly in areas of the country where SS were were very popular back in the heyday of SS washers. These new machines were NOT called Resource Savers, this name was used by WP{ and KM for a special DD washer that did a unique series of either 5 or 6 separate recirculated spray rinses while the machine was spinning at full speed in stead of just the usual one deep rinse. The RSSer was very effective and well liked by our customers, we sold around a hundred of them. The problem was that it got the same good Energy Star rating as the new Calypso and cost 1/2 as much as wasn't all computerized so customers were quick to buy the RSSer rater than and expensive new type of washer. | ||
| Post# 611308 , Reply# 25 7/20/2012 at 08:06 (4,298 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Wash Time | ||
| Post# 611332 , Reply# 27 7/20/2012 at 12:19 (4,297 days old) by fsp95405 () | ||
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This machine also has the top few layers of holes in the basket, with a DA. I've seen some 70 series mnodel DD's with the straight-vane agitator. 
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| Post# 611334 , Reply# 28 7/20/2012 at 12:23 (4,297 days old) by fsp95405 () | ||
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The hoses came with the machine. The water inlets were like that when I got the machine. They are WRONG and INCORRECT!!! It'll get fixed the next time I have the cabinet off. 
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| Post# 611336 , Reply# 29 7/20/2012 at 12:25 (4,297 days old) by fsp95405 () | ||
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saver hose 
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Post# 611352 , Reply# 30 7/20/2012 at 13:52 (4,297 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Melvin,
Cool information and pictures! That model is listed in the WP catalog -- Interesting that it has a conventional model number. I wondered what the xxx791 was all about, as that's pretty high number. Usually they are 701, 711, 721, 731, 741, maybe up to 751. The 791 must have set it apart. If four of these came in at once to the shop, they may have all come from the same place? Four late 80s DDs is one thing, but four suds models, that seems a bit unusual, and interesting, at least to me! Also interesting that the suds functions had been deactivated in the other three machines. You'd think in an area where these machines have been popular in the past, that their 'green' aspects would make the machines easy to sell fully functional. Who knows, maybe they were failing in the suds area? On the timer for the 90, it doesn't look like your machine has much additional space used for the suds. As John said, the giant off in between pre-wash and Normal has that dry agitate section, and that is there on many (maybe all?) of the 4-cycle timers of this era. The other two suds return sections look like simple highlights of what is otherwise the drain portions, which are unmarked in non-suds models. There could be a couple extra 'clicks' used, I don't know. In the 90 series of the late 80s and early 90s, or even my 92 70-series and Chance's 80, there may not be any spare room in that timer. When the second rinse is active, all the offs are one click wide and there appears to be no spare space. The later 90 series machines had very uncluttered timers, with just one giant cycle - it has a pre-soak in front, followed by an agitate period for a pre-wash, the main cycle, and a second rinse. All the variations were done via rotary switches for speeds, activation of the second rinse, etc. There would probably be plenty of room in this version for a suds return. My '93 has the top layer of holes in the basket too. I think these went on into the mid-90s. Unlike with a BD, I can't say when they changed, as I have never followed these with the level of interest that I have in BDs. I do know that the original DDs, even the first editions of the 3.0 cu. ft. basket, the perfs resembled belt-drives, with holes only half-way or 2/3 the way up the basket wall. I would venture to say that the 70-series DDs you saw with straight vane agitators may have been conversions if they were 3.0 baskets. Kenmore had been putting DAs in lesser models by this time and the DA was a 70-series selling feature. There was a few 60-series machines with a straight vane though, and they looked very much like, if not identical, to the 70s. The 1992 60 even used a 70 series timer, but only the Perm Press and Normal were active - the rest were all non-wired dead cycles. Seems like a waste but they didn't have to design another new timer. I'm glad you found this interesting machine Melvin. Gordon | ||
| Post# 611357 , Reply# 31 7/20/2012 at 14:01 (4,297 days old) by AutoWasherFreak () | ||
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I had a TOL Kenmore in the early 90's that had dispensers for detergent, bleach, and fabric softener. I had it for about 5 years never had any problems at all with damaged clothes. | ||
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Post# 611382 , Reply# 33 7/20/2012 at 17:50 (4,297 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Melvin -
60-series machines, in large cap. belt-drive form, seemed to sell better in tough economic climates. Sears had three different models in 1981/1983 which were available simultaneously. I have seen a number of them, and have a couple today. When things improved in late 1983, they were down to one (which was a DA model), then it was gone by early '85. There was a DD 60 in the late 80s, and another in the early 90s - one of those had a DA in one of its revised versions. I've never seen any of them come up in Craigslist ads. Its not like I look for them, but having seen many many C/L ad, it seems everything is 70 and 80 series. I like weird models...if I came across a '88 - '92 DD 3.0 model, I'd get it just to have. They probably would have sold a few of that caliber in the last few tight years, but what I think Sears sold a lot of was the 400 and 500 series. These approximate or may be a bit nicer than the 60 series of years past. G | ||
| Post# 611600 , Reply# 35 7/22/2012 at 17:27 (4,295 days old) by Rebeccah () | ||
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Another washer pic A shot of the space below the fin, where the blouse got caught. 
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| Post# 611602 , Reply# 36 7/22/2012 at 17:33 (4,295 days old) by Rebeccah () | ||
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And a shot of some of the damage This is a shot of the back of the blouse; in addition, there's a big hole above the bust dart in the front. You can see it's not a really fragile blouse, just normal medium-light weight cotton. Rebeccah 
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Post# 611609 , Reply# 37 7/22/2012 at 18:45 (4,295 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Rebeccah, I'm the one who coined the phrase shredmore. Gee, lemme say this, that damage looks like some of the damage I experienced. I too started noticing sight little holes in garments not too soon after I bough the machine. Was acceptable, attributed to normal wear and tear, although they were usually undergarments. But when I sttarted noticing what had been done to about 4 sweaters over time (including a beautiful heavy cotton sweater I washed all by itself and on medium or 3/4 water level abnd it was ruined on delicate) I knew it was not me, but the machine. Two neighbors had similar issues with the machine like you have. My solution, wash everything on knit. It's totally unpredictable as to when something will end up under the fins like it did with this garment. It happend to me, sometimes resulting in tears and other times not. But tihs is wht I learned. I used the knit cycle about 90% of the time. Also, when using knit cycle, only have the wash basket about 3/4 full. Otherwise, yhou won't get a relatively decent rollover for fabrics to get clean in the 8 minutes of that wash phase. I used that cycle for bed linens, men's cotton undergarments, cotton sox, and slack, dress shirts, and golft/knit type shirts. The only time I used cotton/sturdy was for towels and I only put it on the equjivalent of your "normal" setting on the cotton/sturdy cycle. I had friends who had gone from a Kenore purchased in 1977 to one similar to this--well, a direct drive kenmore with the short, fast agitation stroke. They complained to me that their new washer was extremely rough on towels. I asked them what cycle and how long were they setting the time for the wash phase? Their reply Heavy Dutyt (the equivalent of your cotton/sturdy) and 14 minutes. I told them to use the same cycle, don't put as many towels in the machine as before, and set it for only 6 minutes (the equivalent of your "normal" soil level). They then noticed their towels weren't wearing out quite as fast. So sadly I say, and unfortunately, welcome to my world. Oh, and when you do wash a load of towels and such, only put about 1/2 to 3/4 of the wash basket full f garments and always use the highest water legvel. And I see this as a huge waste of water peronally. See folk, I"m not crazy!!!! | ||
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Post# 611613 , Reply# 39 7/22/2012 at 19:18 (4,295 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 611614 , Reply# 40 7/22/2012 at 19:25 (4,295 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Rebeccah, the washer at the very top of this thread at first glance looks like your machine, however there are significant differences. On that machihne, notice it has normal cycle. This cycle starts out with fast agitation at the 10 minute mark and shifts to slow agitation at the 6 minute mark. Spins are normal spin speed and rinse agitatoin is also slow/gentle. Perm Press also starts out with fast agitation at the 10 minute mark and shifts to gentle at the 6 minute mark. Spin speeds and rinse agitation are also gentle on this cycle. heavy duty is like your cotton/sturdy cycle--fast agitation and fast spin speeds. The slow agitatin/fast spin speed conbimatnion was deeemed (Normal) fabrics--this was Sears' stupid way of getting around the customers like you & I who had this type of tearing problem, and there were many. | ||
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Post# 611615 , Reply# 41 7/22/2012 at 19:35 (4,295 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Bob -
The machine in the top picture and mine use the same timer. That timer in fact is used in most all 70 and 80 series machines in the 1992 models. My machine DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT, do a speed shift in the Normal cycle - it is slow agitation the entire cycle. I have never tried the Perm cycle so I have no idea on that one. The wiring harness may activate a feature in the first machine that is not active in mine, as the two models use different harnesses, however the 1992/1993 Kenmore sales brochure I have doesn't mention any speed shifts when talking about Ultra Fabric Care models. Gordon | ||
| Post# 611652 , Reply# 42 7/22/2012 at 21:47 (4,295 days old) by lebron (Minnesota) | ||
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Post# 611655 , Reply# 43 7/22/2012 at 22:22 (4,295 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Rebeccah, you can determine what your machine does speed-wise during each cycle by simply observing it in operation. It should agitate with the lid open. If there's a speed change (reduction) during the wash period, it'll be obvious when the motor stops for a moment and restarts at a slower speed. Your machine has a two-speed motor. High agitation speed of 180 strokes-per-minute. Low agitation speed is 120 SPM. Three-speed motors featured on later models provide high agitation 180 SPM, medium (or low) 120 SPM, low (or extra low) 90 SPM. | ||
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Post# 611659 , Reply# 44 7/22/2012 at 22:45 (4,295 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 611712 , Reply# 45 7/23/2012 at 08:59 (4,295 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Bob -
The white consoles, Sears called them "color coordinated consoles", debuted in 1994 models in a few select machines, mostly 80 series and above. I think there was one 70 - I've been studying the brochure since this thread started...but I think all the 80s and above were considered "Ultra Fabric Care" machines and they could very well have yet different cycle tweaks from the original 1992 tweakage. Anyway, I have noticed on many Craigslist sale machiness, and even when they were new on the sales floor, that the '94s had different timer arrangements in many cases, in fact the Ultra Care speed control switches became common that year and they had new timers to go with. In the '92 models, many machines had the inch-long dead spot where the second rinse was deactivated after the heavy duty cycle. I dare say more machines used that timer with that rinse dead then there were machines that actually made use of it. This seemed to stop in '94 as those models have less cluttered timers in the "down line" models and the Ultra Care timer in the upper end. Only one or two models continued with the 92's timer. It is very possible that all the new timers had that speed shift like you are talking about, especially in the Ultra models. The woodgrain panels finally went away in 1994, in favor of the all black panels with the white and red script lettering, or the color coordinated console. I always liked the jett-black panel, in fact I'm liking it more and more - maybe when I see one on Craigslist that is affordable and in nice shape, it would be worth some experimentation, then donate it to a needy family when done? Gordon | ||
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Post# 611769 , Reply# 46 7/23/2012 at 14:43 (4,294 days old) by joefuss1984 (Little Rock, AR) |
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agitator dog ears Did these older DD models have the dog ears that would wear out in the agitator? If so could it be that is causing bad roll over in Rebeccah's case? I know in my newer DD's that once the dog ears wore the top part of the agitator would not turn and roll over stopped. Of course this was usually heard by a somewhat of a grating plasticish noise during agitation. | ||
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Post# 611803 , Reply# 47 7/23/2012 at 16:46 (4,294 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Very possible Joseph!
Yes indeed, these do have the agitator augers with the four dogs that can wear out. I think this set-up goes back to the mid 80s. This certainly does hamper roll-over, in fact I've had a few neighbors and co-workers say just that, and there are youtube videos showing how to repair these. One of the more popular has been viewed tens of thousands of times and people are always commenting on how it saved their machine from being replaced.
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| Post# 611804 , Reply# 48 7/23/2012 at 16:47 (4,294 days old) by Rebeccah () | ||
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What are these "dog ears" of which you speak? Thanks, Rebeccah | ||
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Post# 611805 , Reply# 49 7/23/2012 at 16:54 (4,294 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Rebecca -
Here's the video I was metioning. It explains it all basically. If you can grab your agitator top and it free-wheels in one direction and grabs and turns the bottom fins in another it's fine. If it slips in both directions, it needs the four dogs replaced. I hope this helps! Gordon CLICK HERE TO GO TO Kenmoreguy64's LINK | ||
| Post# 611822 , Reply# 51 7/23/2012 at 18:21 (4,294 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO) | ||
That's the exact machine my Mother had. It used to dance across the floor with an out of balance load and had to be dragged back into place. I had a newer machine of the same design and it would do the same thing. They won't shut off when they go O/B.
They also tangle up long sleeve shirts. Both machines have been replaced with rebuilt Maytags. They shut off and stay in place. My Mother and I are much happier. | ||
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Post# 611834 , Reply# 52 7/23/2012 at 19:08 (4,294 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.)) |
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The Out Of balance dance.
Usually if these Ken(NOT SHRED)mores did this the automatic rear leveling legs were either sticky or completely locked up. Unless one was on a soft or uneven floor freeing up the legs usually solves the problem.
That said these DD WP machines do have a tendency to put on quite a show when they go out of balance. Nothing will top the time I saw the aftermath of a hardmount commercial washer that had broken it's mount. 3/4 inch bolts sheared clean off. Nick WK78 | ||
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Post# 611840 , Reply# 53 7/23/2012 at 19:45 (4,294 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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| Post# 611856 , Reply# 54 7/23/2012 at 20:43 (4,294 days old) by DirectDriveDave () | ||
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Out of Balance. Our DD has gone out of balance three times in its life, and by unbalanced, I mean the tub hitting the cabinet. Even after all that, still works like a charm. | ||
| Post# 611859 , Reply# 56 7/23/2012 at 21:23 (4,294 days old) by DirectDriveDave () | ||
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Space under agitator fins. From what I have seen and heard, I believe it was done because it reduces drag. | ||
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Post# 611861 , Reply# 57 7/23/2012 at 22:00 (4,294 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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"...because it reduces drag"
I believe Dave is correct, but it also allows the fins to flex, which makes them more gentle.
This is an old, tried and true agitator design feature. Maytag did this before Kenmore, and Sears has had this configuration since the first Dual-Action agitators in Fall 1975. Every once in a long while I will find something wrapped around or under the fin of a BD Dual-Action agitator. I guess it's just bound to happen eventually. | ||
| Post# 612008 , Reply# 58 7/24/2012 at 10:53 (4,294 days old) by KenmoreBD (Mass, usa ) | ||
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Well you learn something new everyday! I would have never thought about the flexing of the fins. | ||
| Post# 612074 , Reply# 59 7/24/2012 at 16:50 (4,293 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO) | ||
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Post# 612082 , Reply# 60 7/24/2012 at 17:23 (4,293 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.)) |
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@Beekeyknee | ||
| Post# 880930 , Reply# 61 5/15/2016 at 17:51 (2,902 days old) by kellyhowe () | ||
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love it have one of these without the water miser 
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| Post# 884393 , Reply# 63 6/10/2016 at 08:52 (2,877 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan) | ||
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My folks got a matching 80 series pair back in the late 80's as a Sears test program. Dad was a division 26 veteran by then. My sister lives in their house now since they are deceased and it still works. | ||
| Post# 909323 , Reply# 66 12/2/2016 at 01:31 (2,702 days old) by DanielJay (USA) | ||
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Well I like the ATC 'Cold' wash setting because it mixes in some warm water. It makes the cold wash water more of a lukewarm temp than ice cold. | ||
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Post# 909324 , Reply# 67 12/2/2016 at 01:47 (2,702 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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ATC The water flow from the hot/cold inlet valve passes through a thermistor module before the fill flume. A small circuit board responds to the thermistor signal to control the valves when an ATC temp is selected. The valves are controlled to attain an average temperature reading per whatever are the target temperatures. Possibly 100°F warm wash, 75°F warm rinse, and 70°F cold. ATC on a machine of this age is less for EnergyStar reasons and more to keep warm and cold from being too cold as may occur in the winter season when tap-cold water is very cold. The ATC choices are Warm/Warm, Cold/Cold, and Warm/Cold. Non-ATC choices, which include Hot/Warm and Hot/Cold, are not regulated. | ||
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Post# 909336 , Reply# 68 12/2/2016 at 07:11 (2,702 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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ATC Water Temperature Control This is a wonderful feature as it assures consistent washing performance in both summer and winter, in the majority of homes in the US there can be a big difference warm water temperature without ATC and even in homes where there is little fluctuation in the incoming hot and cold water temperatures over a years time this feature still gives better results by assuring correct water temperatures.
I always advise all our customers to always use these settings on washers so equipped.
On KN DD washers of this age warm wash should be between 95 F and 105F.
There is seldom any reason to do a 2nd rinse in a washer like this and unless you have very soft water as you rinse all traces of detergent out of a load you are rinsing minerals back into your clean laundry. This not only makes your laundry less soft but it also makes the clothing re-soil more easily and wear out faster.
Using a full 2nd rinse also greatly increases the wear and tear on the washer as every 2 loads you run with a 2nd rinse is like running 3 loads in terms of wear on the machine.
Customers always ask how long a washer will last and we tell them it is largely determined by the number of loads the machine is called upon to wash and to a lesser degree age, as time always takes a toll.
Out in the field we see a big difference in how long a washer lasts in homes where they almost always use the 2nd rinse feature on top load washers. On modern FL washers it seems to make little difference if you use the extra rinse feature.
John L. | ||
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Post# 909357 , Reply# 70 12/2/2016 at 11:27 (2,701 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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A few thoughts: 1) I am not a Whirlpool fan (bet that was a surprise to some here, no?) but this is a very nice machine. I wouldn't mind having it. 2) My personal experience with THAT agitator and THAT tub and THAT DD transmission has PROVED that YES, machines in THIS configuration ARE SHREDMORES.
So - replace the agitator with one which doesn't shred and 8/10s of the objections anyone might possible have to this machine go away. The remaining two - that fabric softener dispenser is hard to release and the ATC is pointless - are easily avoided.
Again, I'd be happy to have this machine and I am not a Whirlpool fan. At.All. There's a difference between recognizing a good machine and disliking a company and this machine makes the argument for what good appliances Whirlpool once built. Their stuff is trash today, but once upon a time.... | ||
| Post# 909521 , Reply# 71 12/3/2016 at 21:47 (2,700 days old) by DanielJay (USA) | ||
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So which agitator would you recommend to replace the one in there now? Maybe I'll try swapping mine if I can find one priced reasonably enough. | ||
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Post# 909526 , Reply# 72 12/3/2016 at 22:28 (2,700 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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I suggest you ask the Whirlpool experts | ||
| Post# 909530 , Reply# 73 12/3/2016 at 22:51 (2,700 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
I think repairing this washer was a reasonable option vs. replacing. Admittedly, a modern washer will use less water/energy...but a cheap modern washer won't realistically go 25 years with only minor repairs. If that cheap washer dies in 5 years or less, the environmental and the personal utility savings might be totally cancelled out.
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| Post# 909531 , Reply# 74 12/3/2016 at 22:53 (2,700 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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| Post# 909533 , Reply# 75 12/3/2016 at 23:05 (2,700 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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>Again, I'd be happy to have this machine and I am not a Whirlpool fan. At.All. There's a difference between recognizing a good machine and disliking a company and this machine makes the argument for what good appliances Whirlpool once built.
Agreed. Although I have mixed feelings about owning these direct drive WP washers. Part of it is personal--a 1980s Kenmore reminds me of an era of my life I want to forget, and the chugga chugga sound of any WP DD machine has a bad habit of pulling me back to that time... Practically, I don't like the Shredmore aspect, although I've not had the problems some report. BUT the direct drive machines were wonderfully durable, and repairable. I haven't done repairs, but I've read of many basic repairs, and they seem like something ANYONE can do. Even Lord Kenmore. I don't own my own washer--I live in a rental--but the practicality of WP DD would make it compelling if I were buying my own washer, and looking for something that would be a reasonably fuss free daily driver. And being fair, one can also argue that GE and Frigidaire don't make appliances as good was once the case. | ||
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Post# 909580 , Reply# 76 12/4/2016 at 10:54 (2,700 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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John, You have a sense of humour. Some, here, don't. I've been on the 'naughty' list (it's more like the: Destroy with Maximum Prejudice list) of some of the Imperial Queens since Yahoo days for disliking modern day Whirlpool. Vintage Whirlpool appliances were quite good and I'd genuinely love to have this machine in our collection. As to KitchenAid, the washer they briefly sold was another one I'd love to have.
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| Post# 909618 , Reply# 77 12/4/2016 at 15:53 (2,699 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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Panthera
I don't know the full history of your experiences with the "Imperial Queens", but I do remember some ugly situations that could erupt on Super subforum back before there were the two full membership subforums.
What is unfortunate is that this sort of thing can drive people away, and those people can have valuable things to say. Indeed, I was really glad when you started posting again, because I honestly missed your posts. (My only regret is the lack of $$$$ for upgraded membership, because I bet you've had some things to say about the recent election on Dirty Laundry!) | ||
| Post# 909622 , Reply# 78 12/4/2016 at 16:16 (2,699 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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Despite the issues I mentioned above as far as this KM DD (both practical and emotional), I have to admit that that would be a high contender if I were buying a DD machine. Although it seems to me that there were models that could set motor speed independently of the timer. That feature would be nice to get a slow/gentle agitation (gentle on clothes) and fast spin.
I think the KA could also be interesting, and it seems to me I've heard the agitation speed was lower, which would presumably translate to easier treatment of clothes. I am currently using a BOL WP DD washer/dryer from ca. 2007, and I can say that the quality is NOT what it was once. Although it may last a reasonable life span for all I know, and I'm at least grateful it can use a full tub of water when rinsing. (Unlike those last DD machines that apparentlyat least sometimes were fixed at a partial tub fill for rinse. What a great idea--take a washer that is already hard on clothes, and do something to make it worse! A cynic might wonder if WP wasn't getting a kickback from clothing makers...) | ||
| Post# 909767 , Reply# 80 12/5/2016 at 16:31 (2,698 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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Indeed, the disposal costs need to be factored in... I should have thought of that and mentioned it earlier. The total impact from acquiring the raw materials through the disposal of the last remnant of the machine (toxic waste land fill, at least for those really horrible machines, like WCI Frigidaires?!?) must be accounted for.
Adding to the fun, but something else that doesn't get considered is how the machine is used. Apart from "what the average person does." Some places water saving is simply not a concern, so saving water at this point is irrelevant. That may change, but a 5 year washer will probably have worn out and been replaced several times before that day comes. Energy savings are good--but if someone uses (shudder!) tap cold water only, the savings again won't be there. Perhaps I'm cynical...but a few minutes ago, I realized that the push for new washers might come from a mix of different people with different views. There is the tree hugger, who can't look past energy savings in the here and now. There is washer maker, who benefits from seeing people trade a good, older washer in on something that might last only 5 years. And bureaucrats can have fun crafting policies and regulations | ||
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