Thread Number: 43947
Foaming Dishwasher HELP! 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 646151   12/13/2012 at 07:32 (4,152 days old) by seeitrun2006 (Commerce, GA)        

I have a Whirlpool dishwasher model #DU1055XTSB1 purchased February 2007. During the main wash it has started to develope foam. When this happens it does not wash well and end up with partially dirty dishes. I've been putting a little white vinegar in it to clear out the foam. The wash action improves and finishes the cycle.

A couple of months ago I checked and cleaned out the pump. I found three tooth picks in it.

We are using Finish gel pacs in the main wash compartment of the soap dispenser. The rinse aid dispenser has liquid in it. I'm wondering if the packs are not dissolving and plugging up the drain. We use the "High Temp Wash" on the Normal cycle. If it does not improve soon I am going to open the pump assembly up again.

Before we used Fisnish liquid in both dispenser departments with no foaming at all.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
David




Post# 646157 , Reply# 1   12/13/2012 at 08:47 (4,152 days old) by cycla-fabric (New Jersey (Northern))        

cycla-fabric's profile picture
HI David, You didn't mention whether you have hard or soft water, I have soft water and found out that using certain Finish packs create a foaming issue which reduces the wash action. I have switched to Finish powder and don't have that problem anymore. I am sure the gelpacks are disolving, but more the makeup of the product that is causing the issue of foaming. Either go with Finish powder or try a new Cascade gelpack, as they don't have the foaming issue and wash well.

Doug

Post# 646158 , Reply# 2   12/13/2012 at 08:49 (4,152 days old) by seeitrun2006 (Commerce, GA)        

I went ahead (since I had the time this morning) and went into the sump pump of the DH. There was a piece of broken glass with trash behind it. But to my surprise and dismay I also found pieces of undissolved gel pacs on the wash sensor.

I will be going back to Finish liquid before the day is out!

Anybody want any gel pacs!!!! UGH!!!

Happy Holidays everyone! Be kind to each other! :)

Peace David

Post# 646160 , Reply# 3   12/13/2012 at 08:55 (4,152 days old) by seeitrun2006 (Commerce, GA)        

Doug,

We have in between hard and soft water. Our water has a pretty good balance. In the shower you lather up really well but easy to rinse off. No residue on our laundry either.

I'm pretty sure it is the gel pacs. Those pacs not disolving is why I WILL NOT use them in my FL clothes washer. I've too read many horror stories of them ruining clothes.

Thanks!
David

Post# 646193 , Reply# 4   12/13/2012 at 11:27 (4,152 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Gel Pacs

 mrb627's profile picture

I have never liked the gel pacs of any brand.  God forbid you touch one with wet hands.  Gross.  I use the powerball mostly but recently found a bogo offering of the Quantums at Publix.  Purchased 4 boxes.  A good 6-8 month supply.

 

Malcolm
Post# 646206 , Reply# 5   12/13/2012 at 12:29 (4,152 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Malcolm

 mark_wpduet's profile picture
If you come back to this post, do you notice the Quantum foaming a lot during the wash?

Post# 646229 , Reply# 6   12/13/2012 at 16:09 (4,151 days old) by gr81nknox ()        
foaming DW

 Earlier this year I started using Finish gelpaks. After complaining that both Cascade(which I've used pretty much all my life) and Finish DW powder detergent was not cleaning well(we all know why now) my parents gave me some Finish tabs to try. They started using them when they installed their Bosch DW a couple of years ago. I had to admit that the first time I used one, the dishes came out much better looking. Used up the few they gave me and then went back to the Finish powder I had and once again, got dishes that were not fully clean and glassware with water spots(and this is using rinse aid and heated dry). One thing I did notice was the DW sounded different during the main wash cycle when I used the gelpacks then it did when I used the powder. Didn't think anything of it and when Wal-Mart had Finish tabs on sale, I bought a box and have been using them for a few months now. So...today after reading this post and running the DW, I opened the door after the main wash had been going about 10 min and below is what I saw. Is this normal? I rarely open the DW after it's started to add something, but wheneber I have, I never noticed this much suds! I'm wondering if the "different" sound I'm hearing is due to the pump filling up with foam with these Finish tabs. I've ordered some Bubble Bandit and can't wait for it to get here so I can try it, but I'm thinking I won't be using the Finish anymore. Good thing I'm running the cycle that gives me 2 full rinses!



Post# 646234 , Reply# 7   12/13/2012 at 17:09 (4,151 days old) by robliverpool (england Liverpool)        

robliverpool's profile picture
I always use finish powder or finish tablets and never had a problem. Never liked the gel caps. I wont even use liquid in my washing machine. Had my dishwasher seven years and thankfully no clogs etc and I think its cos the finish helps to keep the machine clean as well

Post# 646247 , Reply# 8   12/13/2012 at 18:41 (4,151 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
This usually happens when you either rinse all the food particles and sauces off all your dishes and silverware and/or when you use more then one tablet.I had that happen and stopped using more then one tablet and stopped using double wash instaed of a single wash with two rinses.

Post# 646262 , Reply# 9   12/13/2012 at 20:24 (4,151 days old) by gr81nknox ()        

I only use one gel pack and put it in the main wash detergent cup as per the instructions. The DW does a pre wash and then main wash on all cycles. With powder detergents, both the pre and main wash had detergent, with the gel packs, only the main wash gets it. Other than scraping the big pieces of food off the dishes, there is no pre-washing prior to putting in the dishwasher.

Post# 646264 , Reply# 10   12/13/2012 at 20:49 (4,151 days old) by foxchapel ()        
We use the "High Temp Wash" on the Normal cycle.

 Are you sure it is actually heating up the water? If it's not working, this might be why the gelpacs are not dissolving. Just a guess. A candy or meat thermometer can be used to check the temp of the wash water.

Post# 646344 , Reply# 11   12/14/2012 at 03:01 (4,151 days old) by washer111 ()        

If you have foaming problems, check the following:
• Are you using TOO MUCH detergent for the load?
• Did you find the foaming in the Final Rinse, and if so, how many rinses is the dishwasher performing after the Main-Wash (LONG)
• Is the rinse-aid setting correct? If your rinse-aid is set too high, then you WILL see the amount of suds shown above
• Do you pre-rinse dishes, and if so, are you using handwashing detergent/is there any chance of handwashing detergent being in the machine?

To test for residual detergent/hand-washing detergent, run your longest, hottest possible cycle (Most water changes, highest temp. Perhaps a "Heavy Duty" + "High-Temp" and water at the kitchen tap run HOT would work), and check for suds during the prewashes, as well as the mainwash.
Your bubble problem is likely residual detergent, plus rinse-aid working together.
Perhaps trying running longer, hotter and more water changes style cycles, to try and get rid of any residual stuff. Maybe run the dishwasher empty on this cycle too.
Solutions to Dishes NOT being clean:
• Your spray arms are being blocked/the pump is not getting enough water (High pressure spray or a pump drawing air COULD cause excessive suds)
• Do you add any performance enhancer to your dishwasher: E.g. STPP, Finish PowerUp, Lemishine etc?
• Is the detergent dosage, cycle and temperature correct for the load? Greasy, burnt on stuffs require high temperatures to allow heat to dissolve the stickiness and such, whereas Proteins MAY burn on at higher temperatures.
• Are you following the manufacturer's instructions?

I have found, even with correct dosings of detergent in our dishdrawer (or lower), we do get some foaming, but not super excessive.
You may find that adding around 1/4 of a Gallon of water might help the dishwasher. Is the dishwasher a timer based model, or computerised? You might have underfilling (if it is like the machine in the picture above, check the water level as soon as it stops filling. It SHOULD be around where the suds in the above photo are, or even up to the wash-arm, for best results), the pump is starving and some detergents are aggravating the issue of foaming, causing even less water and more foaming in the pump, causing your dirty dish problem.
Try a Double Concentrate powder, from Finish or Morning Fresh, as they work WONDERS better than the original stuff (We initially used Finish Regular Powder. It was kinda hopeless in some cases, when they switched to Double or 1.5x concentrate, things REALLY improved, and the foaming didn't worsen).
Tablets are a waste of time in low water usage/fill dishwashers, as there is too much detergent for your load.

I hope this information is of help to you, and perhaps others that may stumble across this, now and forever!

Post# 646363 , Reply# 12   12/14/2012 at 06:42 (4,151 days old) by seeitrun2006 (Commerce, GA)        

Used the DW after supper last night. I never ever rinse anything off before putting it into the DW. It was a full load of very dirty of dishes using Cascade liquid. I used normal wash with the High Temp wash option. Everything came out sparkling clean! No foaming what so ever!

The HI-Temp option does work with plenty of hot water coming into the machine. We have a circulator pump on our water heater so we have instant hot water thru out the house.

I am 110% certain it was the gel-pacs. I used Cascade liquid last night and the dishwasher purrrrred like a kitten!



Post# 646364 , Reply# 13   12/14/2012 at 06:46 (4,151 days old) by glenfieldmathk1 (Glenfield-Leicester-UK)        

Not sure whether you get standard Powerball 3-in-1 or Quantom in the US?
However I suggest you use these instead of gel, and rinse aid, the powerball 3-in-1 or higher and quantom has built in rinse aid, and is enough to get even a 14 place setting dishwasher properly rinsed without streaks.
Also are you using dishwasher salt, again not needed with 3-in-1's or Quantom? Salt will help clean the dishes better, and reduces the amount of foam for liquid and powder that doesn't contain salt, such as the tabs your going on about.
Finally if your machine has an adjustable rinse aid setting, then use it, if you have too much rinse aid going in it will foam up, turn the dial (usually on rinse aid dispenser) either way on different settings to decide which is better.

Post# 646381 , Reply# 14   12/14/2012 at 08:26 (4,151 days old) by washer111 ()        

Salt alone does nothing at all (although will help a little if you did just "chuck some in"). The salt is used in a dishwasher for the onboard water softener system, which will regenerate (replenish softening capacity) either before or after the full wash cycle.

I don't believe most mainstream US machines use salt, only the more upmarket machines from Europe do (generally), from what I've heard. Some DishDrawer models DO (however) use a water softener

Post# 646440 , Reply# 15   12/14/2012 at 15:12 (4,150 days old) by gr81nknox ()        

Okay, today with the dishwasher completely empty, I ran a quick rinse cycle. No dishes in it, no detergent whatsover added. Opened the door about 5 minutes in and this is what I saw. Not as thick as before, but quite alarming considering nothing was in the unit AND it had gone through two rinses after the last wash. I'm running a full cycle with heated wash(no dishes or detergent) as we speak so hopefully that will get the soap out. I'm wondering if I have some undissolved gel packs in the wash unit. At any rate, I don't think I'll be using the gel packs anymore. My order of Bubble Bandit should be here any day so by the time I have a full load of dishes ready to run, it will get it's maiden run in the DW! As for water temps, I typically do not use the heated wash option, but I do run a tap to get the water at the sink hot before starting the DW. And my water heater is set well above the "Safe"(aka too low) setting so I don't think that it the problem.

Post# 646467 , Reply# 16   12/14/2012 at 16:53 (4,150 days old) by washer111 ()        

Do bear in mind that some dishwashers release rinse-aids during the selected rinse cycle. Put in a clean class that you've rinsed out, and see the difference. If the glass in there appears dry, but that water is sheeted, you've got rinse-aid going.

Post# 817363 , Reply# 17   4/3/2015 at 21:10 (3,310 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
whirlpool gold dishwasher

 At my dad's house, I have a Whirlpool Gold dishwasher, model GU2455xtsq1. I too get good results using cascade complete, Cascade crystal clear and normal/high-temp wash.

Post# 817461 , Reply# 18   4/4/2015 at 15:21 (3,309 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
finish gel pacs

 I have used finish gel pacs in the dishwasher I've mentioned above. I've noticed during the main wash, the pump would be heard clearly, but wash action stays strong withsuds, but not too much. I have soft water.

Post# 817502 , Reply# 19   4/4/2015 at 20:16 (3,309 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        
Cascade with Dawn

 askolover's profile picture

packs cause the same problem in my Maytag and we have a water softener.  Once or twice it even bubbled out!  I've switched back to Finish powerball.  Trying the Quantum packs now to see how they do but told hubby not to get anymore Cascade with Dawn.
Post# 818321 , Reply# 20   4/9/2015 at 20:13 (3,304 days old) by kirbykid63 ()        
Had the same problem this is how I fixed it

 My hotpoint had that same problem in Tucson,The problem was the water going into the unit " Was To Hot" I turned down the water heater and the problem was solved.

Richard
new2youvacuums


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