Thread Number: 47701
Motor control Boards 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 692407   7/28/2013 at 07:09 (3,925 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        

I am considering using a 'brush-type' washer motor (preferably with it's original control board) for a 'non-washer' project. I have several motors and controllers 'in stock', but have no idea which machines they belong to, as I inherited many of them from my 'late' father, who labelled nothing, relying on memory for everything. :-(

All of the controllers I have looked at (old, non-computer, 'rotary timer' types) seem to have about 5 or 6 connections to the timer. One wire tends to set the 'direction', and the others (usually via a single resistor) set the speed. Some have a shaft-mounted servogenerator and use a closed-loop system, others have no generator, and presumably sense current to set speed in an open-loop system. I am seeking general, 'generic' information as to how I can arrange a 'variable speed' drive using one of these motor/board combinations.

I will try to dig out (literally!!) one or two, and try to come up with part numbers in the hope that someone will have knowledge of a particular machine and/or diagrams, which would be fantastic!!

Sorry if this is in the 'wrong' forum, but the parts I have are all 20+ years old, so I assume that the people who will be able to help will frequent this forum. ;-)

Any parts I can't use will probably end up listed for sale eventually. (All U.K. 240V, by the way ;-) )

Sorry for the long-winded post. :-(

Dave T





Post# 694201 , Reply# 1   8/4/2013 at 13:18 (3,918 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        
First Board Number

 Finally had time to dig one out....

Does anyone have any knowledge of the connections and/or inner workings of the Elmarc EM13 SP controller??

There will be others as and when I can get to them...

Thanks in advance

Dave T


Post# 694352 , Reply# 2   8/5/2013 at 03:42 (3,917 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Controllers..

 chestermikeuk's profile picture
Hi Dave , can you post some pics so we can get a better understanding, might be able to determine similar boards/controllers/machines etc..

Post# 694354 , Reply# 3   8/5/2013 at 04:15 (3,917 days old) by electron1100 (England)        
Pictures

 electron1100's profile picture
Yes I go with mike on with this one pictures are more help than just numbers, there are more than enough of us on here who could recognise the main manufacturers (Hoover,Servis,Hotpoitn etc) control boards from yesteryear
Gary

Post# 694355 , Reply# 4   8/5/2013 at 04:15 (3,917 days old) by electron1100 (England)        
Pictures

 electron1100's profile picture
Yes I go with mike on with this one pictures are more help than just numbers, there are more than enough of us on here who could recognise the main manufacturers (Hoover,Servis,Hotpoitn etc) control boards from yesteryear
Gary

Post# 694356 , Reply# 5   8/5/2013 at 04:15 (3,917 days old) by electron1100 (England)        
Pictures

 electron1100's profile picture
Yes I go with mike on with this one pictures are more help than just numbers, there are more than enough of us on here who could recognise the main manufacturers (Hoover,Servis,Hotpoitn etc) control boards from yesteryear
Gary

Post# 694437 , Reply# 6   8/5/2013 at 16:14 (3,916 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        
Photographs

 I'll try to get one or two done... I'll try to dig out a few more controllers and motors, too...

Thanks for your interest

Dave T

P.S. I heard you the first time, Electron1100.... ;-)


Post# 696467 , Reply# 7   8/14/2013 at 13:47 (3,908 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        
More part numbers

 Sadly no photos yet (I don't have a digital camera, trying to get a friend to do some) but here are some more controller part numbers

'Mullard' branded S LP1201/13

'Carpano et Pons / Sibel' (France) branded RV20

'Hotpoint' branded 904/1056/02

'RTC' branded 4311 027 12354

Anything familiar there?? Will try to get a pic or two up soon

Thanks again

Dave T


Post# 696589 , Reply# 8   8/15/2013 at 01:56 (3,907 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Hi Dave

The "'Mullard' branded S LP1201/13" caught my eye.

This is the motor speed module for my washer, which is an Australian market UK built Hoover 455 (A3072).

There'd be members here who could confirm, but I presume it would be the same module in the UK Hoover 720rpm spin matchbox washers when they switched to the AC motor in the 70s. Models such as A3006, A3008 Keymatic, A3058, etc.

In these machines, the module allowed motor speeds of approx 900rpm in both directions (drum speed of 53rpm when washing), and approx 1400rpm in one direction only (drum speed of 83rpm when distributing). The module utilises the feedback tachometer on the motor to measure and adjust the speed of the armature. The motor speed of approx 12,750rpm (when spinning) was attained by applying full mains power to the motor. These motors have reaction brush gear, hence the distribute, and especially the spin are in one direction only

I've attached some images. In the image attached to this posting, the top module is the one from my machine, and the other two are a couple of spares donated to me over the years. I suspect the three digits at the lower right of the labels is Mullard's date coding. 844 probably means the 44th week of 1978. My machine was manufactured February 1979 so that's about right.

Once again, there are people more expert on this board than I am who could probably supply more information.

Cheers
John

Post# 696590 , Reply# 9   8/15/2013 at 01:58 (3,907 days old) by crouzet951 ()        
Module In Situ

 This is the module in situ. Looking at the back of the machine, it is in the lower left side. There are four terminals on top (two are common), and a multi-connector on the bottom.

Post# 696591 , Reply# 10   8/15/2013 at 02:00 (3,907 days old) by crouzet951 ()        
Motor 1

 This is what the motor looks like, though usually not as rusty as this one. Drive is poly-v belt.

Post# 696592 , Reply# 11   8/15/2013 at 02:01 (3,907 days old) by crouzet951 ()        
Motor 2

 Rear of the motor.

Post# 696594 , Reply# 12   8/15/2013 at 02:05 (3,907 days old) by crouzet951 ()        
Motor 3

 The tachometer coil is in the black plastic housing, which is also the connection socket.

The motor has six connectors: 2 x windings (via a TOC); 2 x armature; and 2 x tachometer.

Bearing kits, brushes, and even armatures are readily available for these motors.

Post# 696596 , Reply# 13   8/15/2013 at 02:24 (3,907 days old) by crouzet951 ()        
Circuit Diagram

 This is the circuit diagram for the 455. Someone on the board will probably have a better diagram from a UK manual which actually indicates which terminals on the module are receiving what signals from the timer (tumble, spin, etc).

Sorry for my hand corrections. When the later type thermal door lock and suppressor were fitted, several wires were added and others changed colour codes, and they weren't reflected in my document. It was very embarrassing when changing a timer over, and finding an extra wire not on the diagram.

Post# 696597 , Reply# 14   8/15/2013 at 02:40 (3,907 days old) by crouzet951 ()        
Almost Forgot To Mention

 The motor speed at distribute can be adjusted slightly, using a trim pot on the module, and a small screwdriver. It's described in paragraphs 16 and 17 of the attached.

Post# 696686 , Reply# 15   8/15/2013 at 16:41 (3,906 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        
Mullard board

 Thanks, John, for your comprehensive and beautifully illustrated reply. :-)

I think I have an example of that particular motor 'in stock', so may be in with a chance. My Mullard boards have codes '703' and '708'.

It is interesting to note (on my boards anyway) that the pin numbering on your diagram implies that the pin numbering etched onto the board is actually reversed. Numbers 1 and 22 appear in the copper, but at the 'wrong' ends.....

I will investigate further and let you know how things progress.

Any further input from other members would be greatly appreciated, especially an internal diagram of the board circuit, or 'theory of operation' document

Thanks again

Dave T


Post# 697523 , Reply# 16   8/19/2013 at 14:18 (3,902 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        
Photograph... At last!!

 Hope this helps with identification......

Post# 697672 , Reply# 17   8/20/2013 at 05:56 (3,902 days old) by Meadowbank ()        
Variable speed?

 Hello Dave, if you are thinking about making the Hoover or Hotpoint motors into variable speed motors for your project it can be done quite easily with the addition of a variable resistor and a couple of switches. Details are in two issues of the UK Magazine 'Model Engineers Workshop'(MEW), I will look up details if this is your goal. Regards, Meadowbank.

Post# 697681 , Reply# 18   8/20/2013 at 08:17 (3,902 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Hotpoint and Hoover Circuit boards as pictured above

 ozzie908's profile picture
I have 2 bread baskets full so if you want any do please shout.

Austin

Post# 697697 , Reply# 19   8/20/2013 at 12:18 (3,902 days old) by fido ()        

If you are handy with a soldering iron you could make up a continuously variable speed control using one of the existing boards for the triac and heat sink. I made one for my father as a speed controller for his old '50s electric drill when I was a teenager.

This circuit may not be suitable but is an example of how simple they can be:



CLICK HERE TO GO TO fido's LINK
Post# 697823 , Reply# 20   8/21/2013 at 01:48 (3,901 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Not only fans and motors-but I have seen that same circuit used in incandescent light dimmers.It could be used for flourescents-but the lamp has to have a dimming ballast to work.

Post# 697835 , Reply# 21   8/21/2013 at 06:15 (3,901 days old) by Meadowbank ()        
Variable speed motors

 Hello Dave, the issues of MEW you want are numbers 86 & 88 and the author is Vasilii Zakharov. Be very careful with these motors as there are exposed live wires and the motors will jump when switched to full speed. I clamp the motor to the bench if I am working on it out of the washing machine.



Post# 697839 , Reply# 22   8/21/2013 at 06:38 (3,901 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        
Meadowbank

 Thanks, Meadowbank for the info.... I'll try to find copies online.

My intened use is powering a small lathe/miller, so closed-loop control would be best. Does anyone have any 'detailed' experience of working with the TDA1085C controller I.C.?? I can't work out from the 'example circuit' given on the chip data sheet whether it is controlled by the servogenerator voltage or frequency...

Any and all input would be appreciated, including on older 'non-chip' controllers.

Many thanks

Dave T


Post# 700353 , Reply# 23   9/1/2013 at 05:39 (3,890 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        
Come on, folks.....

 Surely SOMEONE has had a 'play' with motors and controllers before!!! I have thought of several more potential 'projects', including a motor-generator set, for which close speed regulation will be a 'must'....

Can anyone help???

All best

Dave T


Post# 700369 , Reply# 24   9/1/2013 at 07:04 (3,890 days old) by fido ()        

The information that crouzet provided should be enough to get something working. If you look at one of the boards you should see that there is a series of resistors for switching in different speeds. To get a simple switched speed control you could get a multi position wafer switch such as would be used in a radio for wavechange selection. Alternatively you could look at the lowest and highest resistors and select a potentiometer to suit that range. If you connect that between the connections for the highest fixed speed selection you will have continuously variable speed. If your application needs it you could also wire up a direction change switch as per the wiring diagram.


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