Thread Number: 48257
Yet Another Bob-Load Attempt!
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Post# 699420   8/28/2013 at 03:32 (3,903 days old) by washer111 ()        

Yes folks, its that time where I attempt to "Bob-Load" the Fisher and Paykel DishDrawer again... (And obviously gain the "street-cred" from Bob's certification!)

 

My offering today has to be the fullest, dirtiest load I've done to date (I've done worse in soil, but those were light in terms of fullness). 30 items, not including the lids for the plastic containers. If you count the lids you get about 35. So this approximates to 60% of a "real" dishwasher (if 25 items is the "standard").

And to top it off, this load has sat for almost 3 days with a wide variety of soils. Only 1 item was dirty, the black ladle. Though only the top remained mostly untouched. Beneath the yellow bowl is a heavily crusted potato masher with (Duh) Potato mash on it. 

To make it more of a "challenge" I left the drawer open as much as I possibly could, for as long as possible. 

 

If this doesn't earn me certification, then I don't know what will, Lol. 





Post# 699421 , Reply# 1   8/28/2013 at 03:35 (3,903 days old) by washer111 ()        
Completion

Almost 100% cleanliness!

 

Used the Delicates cycle: Wash @ 122ºF/50ºC -> Rinse -> Rinse -> Rinse @ 140ºF/60ºC. Cycle lasts 92 minutes including the fan-drying. I cancelled once that began and flashed dried in about 5 minutes. So the cycle was really exactly 60 minutes. 

 

All cutlery and everything else emerged clean like usual. Heard quite a bit of rice go through the now un-covered drain filter during the draining phase. Though thankfully, the drain filter being "broken" (without cover) means that it is mostly self-cleaning - especially when used with hotter cycles every week or so. 

 

Please excuse the steam that may have fogged the lenses. Shot was taken just after I opened the drawer


Post# 699423 , Reply# 2   8/28/2013 at 03:37 (3,903 days old) by washer111 ()        

Any else got some "Bob-Loads" for us? Please! Laughing

 

Digging through the archives reveals a thread that was kept alive for a year, thanks to Bob (Member "appnut") himself posting numerous shots of his loads


Post# 699429 , Reply# 3   8/28/2013 at 05:45 (3,903 days old) by chris74 ()        
I think it matches criteria for a real BobLoad

Does the dishdrawer feature a blade chopper in the filter system? Why did you decide to use the delicates cycle? I mean, this load qualifies for more intensive care, because the ladle still looks dirty. Last question: do you use rinse aid / jet dry or all-in-one pouches?

Post# 699438 , Reply# 4   8/28/2013 at 06:11 (3,903 days old) by washer111 ()        
@chris74

Generally am preferential to the Delicates cycle on this machine as it gets the job done quickly (60mins) and provides results as good as, if not better than the "Normal" cycle. This is thanks to the additional rinse the machine provides on both Delicate/Delicate Eco cycles, which add the extra sparkle to our dishes. Also reduces chemicals in the water. Final rinse is 100% clear before Rinse-Aid is dispensed.

I've also discovered with a Hot water connection, the Normal/Heavy cycles will often skip water heating in the final rinse if the temperature is within around 5ºC of the target. Whilst that may shave a good amount of time from the cycle (and save energy), if the manual says I "should" get a 60º Final Rinse, I want one!!! This also assists drying. 

As an added "bonus" to using the Normal cycle, you only get 2 rinses, for Energy Conservation reasons (Its the "go to" cycle), so stuff always looks just a tad dingy to my eye. For really stubborn loads that are temperature sensitive (Not often), I might use the Normal cycle because its almost identical to the Heavy cycle, apart from temperature and the "lack" of the 3rd rinse (also featured on the heavy cycle) - this gives the dishes a "soak" at 50º for around 45 minutes in the Main-Wash. 

 

My other "gripe" with using a heavy cycle on this load was for several reasons:

  • Main-Wash for either Heavy Cycle is at least 65º (One is 65º the other is 70º), the final rinse is either 60º or 65º. I've found this causes the plastic lid-locks to fade and break, and it also warps the lids used to seal them, so it isn't really good
  • The rinse-temperature dilemma
  • The load just wasn't greasy enough to justify the Heavy cycle for me, and after pulling the drawer open 8 minutes into the Main-Wash (naughty me, lol), my assumptions were right: Most of the soils had found there way into the water, admitting defeat to the rather powerful and plentiful water-movement in the DishDrawer

And that ladle, yes, an issue. It was only the top that got dirty, from the lack of Constant-Rinse arm on the machine (Really needs it for these loads!). It was cleaner than before though. Inside it was nice and clean like it should be, as it was receiving direct water bounce from the spray arm (I don't think you can see that in the photo). Had I used the Heavy cycle, it may have come clean from all the steam that builds-up during that cycle, but, I really don't know. 

 

As for detergent and rinse-aid, I am a staunch believer in the use of regular powder and rinse-aids. I do have a nice stash of Fairy tablets that I run in the machine every so often (empty) to clean it or for really grotty loads. They work nicely in the Delicate cycle too, surprisingly. Those tablets smell very similar to the "Finish Dishwasher Cleaner" I used sometimes before, which were a foamy mess. These aren't, provided the load is dirty enough. 

My regular detergent is Finish Advanced/Concentrate Powder, in 1.5Kg box. This is only available in Lemon scent for me, unfortunately, though the unscented version smells quite similar. Rinse aid is Finish too. 

 

On the subject of Rinse-Aid, I did bump the setting to the maximum for this load (usually set to Number 2 out of 5) - as I was concerned about little gritty bits finding there way onto the cups. Some still did, which I towelled up before the photo (I unloaded right after, so I wanted to catch the stuff before it had a chance to dry on!).

 

Hope you are still awake after that, but also hope it has answered your question. Thanks for asking! Its always fun writing about this sort of stuff, maybe not from my computer's point of view though...


Post# 699439 , Reply# 5   8/28/2013 at 06:17 (3,903 days old) by washer111 ()        
Forgot this Detail:

The DishDrawer Does Not have a food disposal blade in it. However, the machine never seems to mind eating some rice for dinner. One just has to mind out for the toothpicks that inevitably end up in the machine on some occasions, as those can really ruin your day... 

 

I have removed the little pump from the machine numerous times since the drain-filter broke, and found no clogging or mess down in the drain pump section. Both impellers are in very good condition too, even though they have been, perhaps, abused. (I had to run the machine without the drain filter back this time last year when the originally broke, so it got to gobble up some eggs too). 

The machine's good pumping state may be due to the amount of water this machine moves (will embed a video) and because we still have up to 30% Phosphates in the Finish detergent, which is pretty good, if you ask me. We regularly use the heavy cycle too (weekly for the roast-chicken roaster thingy), so very hot water and detergent do get their run through the pipes, which I'm sure is beneficial for them. 

 

Thanks to member "Dadoes" for posting this video:

 

 

 

 


Post# 699465 , Reply# 6   8/28/2013 at 09:04 (3,902 days old) by chris74 ()        
Thank you for the copious explanations!

So, I do believe there is no Pots & Pans cycle as the DD is somehow not intended to wash these items? How many spray arms do they feature anyway? I can truly imagine that there is one under the basket of course and one under the top where it goes into the cupboard or sink or wherever the DD is mounted.

I personally think that phosphate-free dishwasher detergents do no good, too.


Post# 699502 , Reply# 7   8/28/2013 at 12:58 (3,902 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Chris74,

The Heavy cycle is intended for cookware/pots & pans.  Washer111's unit has different cycle sequence programming than mine, being a newer model and (presumably) of Aus/NZ marketing.  Heavy on mine runs seven water changes:  prewash, rinse, rinse, main wash (150°F), rinse, rinse, rinse (163°F).

One spray arm, under the rack.


Post# 699719 , Reply# 8   8/29/2013 at 08:07 (3,901 days old) by chris74 ()        
Thank you, DADoES

I believe they should have two spray arms that would do a better cleaning job. But it seems to be like in the in-sink dishwashers: one arm only.

Post# 706898 , Reply# 9   10/2/2013 at 22:31 (3,867 days old) by washer111 ()        
Another Offering

This load is not as crammed as the last, however, 100% of space usable (with causing lid-closure issues) was used. This sat for 4 days, and the large plates, apple pie bowls and small bowls were in there for most of that time. I also left the drawer open as much as possible to really dry stuff out. 

 

Again used the Delicates cycle (4 water changes), after discovering the Normal cycle was 5 minutes SHORTER than this one (one less rinse). It is supposed to give a 38 minute Main-Wash period, but only have 28. I think I might scribble out the "Normal" label on the controls I'm that irritated! Enough of that though. Here are the photos:


Post# 706900 , Reply# 10   10/2/2013 at 22:32 (3,867 days old) by washer111 ()        
Yuck!

Water on top of cups just before the 1st rinse (Main-Wash drainage period). The water going into the main drainage point outside the kitchen was a deep brown colour!


Post# 706902 , Reply# 11   10/2/2013 at 22:38 (3,867 days old) by washer111 ()        
Results

More or less perfect, if you discount the Apple Pie cutter... I scrubbed that off quickly afterwards. All other items emerged clean and mostly dry, but even flash drying isn't perfect. 

Whilst this is a contradiction to above, I've taken to Combo52 (John's) scheme of not using Rinse-Aid (Jet-Dry) in the dishwasher anymore (and setting it on minimum till it runs out). Absolutely no issues with yibletting, drying or noticeable spotting/filming (Soft water). Definitely happy to be free from the "stuff!" No more Rinse-Aid (Unless they come in the tablets)!

 

And NO that bowl WAS NOT left like that during the wash. Merely removed from the racks to demonstrate Before and After results Laughing


Post# 706937 , Reply# 12   10/3/2013 at 02:13 (3,867 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

Nice results for the machine! :)
But I'd say it can fit way less than a standard dishwasher.
Just think that a normal 12 place setting machine is tested with 140 items in it.


Post# 706949 , Reply# 13   10/3/2013 at 06:24 (3,867 days old) by washer111 ()        
@dj-gabriele

You are certainly right! Then again, this machine is 6 place settings, and not many people load with "place settings" in mind. Its almost like having a regular machine that can only wash one rack at a time - but the racking is pretty versatile with what it can hold. 


Post# 707152 , Reply# 14   10/4/2013 at 06:35 (3,866 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Here's My KA Regency

toploader55's profile picture
For a One Armed Wonder, LaRegina did a Great Job.

The Loading begins...


Post# 707154 , Reply# 15   10/4/2013 at 06:37 (3,866 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        


toploader55's profile picture
If you load the bottom and leave a few spaces for the water to get through, results are 95%-100% satisfactory.

BTW still loading...


Post# 707156 , Reply# 16   10/4/2013 at 06:39 (3,866 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Just a few more things in the top rack...

toploader55's profile picture
I wouldn't rate this a a BobLoad, but it's a good shot for the Old Girl.

Post# 707158 , Reply# 17   10/4/2013 at 06:41 (3,866 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
And...

toploader55's profile picture
A Prewash, Rinse, Main Wash, and 2 rinses...

Et Voila !!!


Post# 707159 , Reply# 18   10/4/2013 at 06:42 (3,866 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        


toploader55's profile picture
Not Bad, and all in 48 minutes.

Plus 200 gallons of Water. LOL


Post# 707167 , Reply# 19   10/4/2013 at 07:43 (3,865 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture
Here's some from my photo archives - the 56 GE pull-out in the Kitchen Centre down in Ogden. This is an impeller-wash machine, but if you load it right, you can still get a good load into it!

Lower rack shown here:


Post# 707168 , Reply# 20   10/4/2013 at 07:48 (3,865 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture
And here's what I managed to cram into the upper rack.

Bonus - it all washed well!! It can be a challenge with these impeller machines, but if nothing else, I have learned that for best results, don't let dishes sit in the machine for more than a day. When I first got the 56 GE installed, I would only load it with dishes and they sometimes sat there for a couple of days before the machine was full. I got over that now... I was concerned about water use (we're on a well and septic tank down in the woods of Ogden) but when I found technical specs for this machine and learned it uses 6, yes you read that right, 6 gallons of hot water for a cycle, I figured there was no reason to deprive us of clean dishes... LOL


Post# 707272 , Reply# 21   10/4/2013 at 19:25 (3,865 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
I Gotta Ask!

danemodsandy's profile picture
Eddie:

Where on Earth did you find dishes in the Indian Tree pattern that you're comfortable washing by machine? A lot of Indian Tree is either antique, or it's Spode, both of which I would hand-wash. It looks like you found some that is just fine for everyday use and machine-washing.


Post# 707296 , Reply# 22   10/4/2013 at 21:28 (3,865 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Well...

toploader55's profile picture
They were used in a restaurant on the Cape years ago called the Yankee Clipper.

I had worked there on and off over the years and when the New Owner decided it was time for New Place Settings, I got a setting for 8. I have been usuing them for years and the Glaze has held up beautifully in all the "scrubbing " in the Vintage Machines.

Ironically I have been thinking about taking them out of service, but I can't seem to find anything lately that I like.

As soon as the restaurant closes, I'll have more time to Thrift and Shop.

They are pretty and I remember Mr. Gansky inquired about them years ago in BobLoad Threads.

BTW Mr. Gansky.. How are you and Schuyler doing ?

And when the day comes... Mr. Gansky will get all the Indian Tree Pattern. (And Maybe the Favorite Dishwasher that washes them LOL.


Post# 707697 , Reply# 23   10/7/2013 at 07:13 (3,862 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )        
Eddie,

polkanut's profile picture

Maybe you need some vintage Stetson dishware like this RCA Whirlpool pattern.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO polkanut's LINK

Post# 711966 , Reply# 24   10/28/2013 at 20:09 (3,841 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
OK...I think this could be...

toploader55's profile picture
The Ultimate BobLoad for the KDS-20

Phase 1 of Loading


Post# 711968 , Reply# 25   10/28/2013 at 20:10 (3,841 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Phase 2

toploader55's profile picture
Adding some more over the top of Lower Rack

Post# 711969 , Reply# 26   10/28/2013 at 20:13 (3,841 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Starting the Top Rack

toploader55's profile picture
More Stuff.

I made Breaded Chiclen Cutlets with Lemon Butter, Quinoa, Green Beans dressed with Olive Oil, and a quickie Caesar Salad.


Post# 711972 , Reply# 27   10/28/2013 at 20:18 (3,841 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
But Wait... There's More

toploader55's profile picture
More stuff Jammed into the top rack

Main Wash Cup Store Bought Cascade. ( Nothing Special)

Prewash and Soak Cup... Delicious Hytron.

Cycle Selection du Jour... Soak and Scrub.

Results will be posted Later or Tomorrow Morning. (Which ever I make it to first.)

And it wasn't me that left the COLD behind !!!



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