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Thread Number: 54483
Water heater temp's, what's the ideal Min – Max? |
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Post# 768631 7/7/2014 at 01:17 (3,583 days old) by revvinkevin  (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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 Six months or so ago I installed a new water heater but didn't really dial in the temp or even check it until today. At the kitchen faucet it's 150°. I know that's great for the dishwasher, however I think it might be a bit too hot otherwise. So my question is: where should the water heater temp be set? Or, what temp do you have yours set for? Thanks so much in advance! Kevin | ||
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| Post# 768650 , Reply# 3 7/7/2014 at 04:13 (3,583 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
US water heaters ship set at 120F. Prolly cuz they could be sued for burns if set to 140 which dishwashers of course prefer. In short there is no ideal as long as you're paying to heat it. Higher tank temp, more heat is lost to radiation. If anyone in the house is likely to put their hand in tap hot, 120F is uncomfortable but not scalding in the time it takes to realize it's hot. Unless the person is insensitive to heat, blahblahblah.
As to legionella, will grow below 140-150 but pritdang unlikely to get in there from a chlorinated supply. Wellwater, deeper subject. Or catchment. How does the COLD tank not grow wildlife? Rainwater isn't sterile ya know. How oh how did humans ever survive to reach an age where nannyments prohibit us from doing anything dangeroos (sic)? | ||
| Post# 768652 , Reply# 4 7/7/2014 at 04:47 (3,583 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO) | ||
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Post# 768653 , Reply# 5 7/7/2014 at 04:51 (3,583 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 768659 , Reply# 6 7/7/2014 at 05:23 (3,583 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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My natural gas heater is set so water coming from the tap is around 142 degrees F. Probably hotter than needed---both dishwasher and washing machine have internal heaters---but old habits die hard, I guess.
Personally, 120 degrees as a max temp isn't hot enough. Were there little kids in the house, I'd think differently. | ||
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Post# 768665 , Reply# 7 7/7/2014 at 05:52 (3,583 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Between the Hot and Very Hot setting. I have a Rheem Natural Gas water heater. It's about 6 months old. I have it set between the Hot and Very Hot setting and it comes out at about 130-135 at the kitchen faucet. That seems good for me to get a hot shower.
Both my Dishwasher and Washing Machine heat the water so I could get by with a lower setting but I like nice hot showers. | ||
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Post# 768680 , Reply# 8 7/7/2014 at 07:21 (3,583 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI ) |
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Post# 768707 , Reply# 9 7/7/2014 at 08:50 (3,583 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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 As discussed in previous discussions on water heaters, my tankless unit is set at 102°F for showering and "warm"-ish clothes washing. I raise it as needed for some tasks, but not for the dishwasher being as it has onboard heating. I occasionally *lower* it a little for a cooler shower such as after mowing the yard. | ||
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Post# 768715 , Reply# 10 7/7/2014 at 09:15 (3,583 days old) by super32 (Blackstone Massachusetts) |
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Post# 768716 , Reply# 11 7/7/2014 at 09:24 (3,583 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI) |
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 We just got a new water heater, more than a month ago, so right now it's a bit of a battle to try to adjust the temperature control on it, so we don't freeze, or burn...
This is really only critical with the bathtub, (Isn't it always?!) but now our daughter wants to take her own showers, by herself...
So an awful lot of fine-tuning the Hot & Cold faucet controls is needed, as I reach into the tub, wetting my upper-extremities, soaking the bathroom outside of the tub, and all...!!!!
-- Dave
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| Post# 768728 , Reply# 12 7/7/2014 at 10:07 (3,582 days old) by xraytech (Rural southwest Pennsylvania ) | ||
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Post# 768735 , Reply# 13 7/7/2014 at 11:05 (3,582 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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120-140 degrees
We got a tankless water heater installed when we had the new furnace installed with natural gas. It allows for a range of 120-140 degrees. I tend to keep it at the 140 degrees mark because the dishwasher works better and the rinses are warmer in the washers.
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Post# 768754 , Reply# 14 7/7/2014 at 12:19 (3,582 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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 Right around 130 here. That's hot enough to work with, and the Miele dishwasher has an on-board heater. Most dishwashers with heaters suggest a minimum setting of 120. For me, 130 gets most jobs done and probably evens things out for rinses in the Miele since the water heater is around 20' away, as the pipes run.
It makes no difference for the laundry. Having the heater set at 140 or 150 would only prompt the Affinity's auto-temp function to start mixing in cold water that much sooner during the fill. :-/ | ||
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Post# 768856 , Reply# 16 7/7/2014 at 17:19 (3,582 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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I have mine set at 160....the kids bathroom has tempering/anti-scald valves....
you have to consider, incoming temps, and demand times for keeping it that hot and available.....one or two persons is one thing....having a family and several machines hooked up and running.... I want to consider installing a second water heater....not sure if to zone it, or in-line with the first one....right now its just a 50 gallon tank..... my last tank lasted 16 years..... one top load machine can drain a big amount of hot water.....but I never understand why FL users now go to all COLD washes...whats the most its gonna draw, 3 or 4 gallons....that's the reason I use hot or warm washes, even running several machines is no big deal of energy usage.... | ||
| Post# 768864 , Reply# 17 7/7/2014 at 17:44 (3,582 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO) | ||
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I just measured mine and it reads 130 degrees. I just got a KDS-60 (KDS-20) about a month ago and I'm noticing some things not coming clean, like smoothies that have been left to dry on. My mother never has this problem, but her w/h is at the other end of the house, so by the time the machine is done filling the hottest water is just getting to the machine. I've been noticing that this machine runs through it's cycles faster than hers. Could it be that hers is running longer to heat up the water since the heater is so far away. Could that be my problem? She's never had a problem with dishes not coming clean. And we have a water softener. I don't get it. I can tell the machine is running properly by the sound. I've heard it run 3/4 of my life. And this one's had a pump rebuild just recently.
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Post# 768870 , Reply# 18 7/7/2014 at 18:11 (3,582 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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If that KDS60 doesn't have a water heating option, then you probably need a minimum temp of 140 for it. As soon as the water for the first fill hits cold porcelain, it cools down, then relatively cold dishes, etc. serve to cool it even further, so you're not getting a very hot pre-wash. On lighter cycles, the first fill might involve detergent, which means you'll have a tepid wash temp. | ||
| Post# 768872 , Reply# 19 7/7/2014 at 18:13 (3,582 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO) | ||
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Well, I was reading the service manual for the machine and it said that wash times are longer for cooler water and wash times can vary from unit to unit. Since my w/h is so close to my kitchen, maybe I shouldn't flush the water from the faucet to bring hot water to the machine. It might run longer then and work better. At my Mom's we run the water, but as I said, the w/h is at the other end of the house. Could this be right?
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| Post# 768877 , Reply# 20 7/7/2014 at 18:26 (3,582 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO) | ||
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Ralph,
It says the machine heats the first fill to 150 degrees with 1400 watts and succeeding pre-washe and main washes are heated with 700 watts while the pump is running. That's the dual Calrod working, I suppose. I'm guessing that the water entering is to hot and causing the machine to run short washes? Maybe I should turn down the w/h? It does pause and heat the first fill to condition the tank and dishes, but it sure doesn't take very long. My Mom's heats much longer. Could this be the problem? Where's stevet when you need him? I need your expert advise. Or someone else? John, maybe, if you're home yet. B. | ||
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Post# 768880 , Reply# 21 7/7/2014 at 18:36 (3,582 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 768983 , Reply# 23 7/8/2014 at 00:30 (3,582 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Post# 769023 , Reply# 24 7/8/2014 at 05:19 (3,582 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Wash times KDS 20
Brian,
My daily driver is a KDS20 and it does not circulate water while heating. It just sits and heats the water. The variable times in the two machines you mentioned is likely due to the water temperature entering the machine but I didn't think the water temps adjust the actual time the machine circulates water so once the water hits the right temp I would think that evens the playing field between the two machines.
If you are only having performance issues on the top rack only have you looked at the underside of the rubber tube that carries water to the upper wash arm? I had a similar issue in mine and it turns out the underside of mine had a huge gash in it and the upper wash arm wasn't getting the water pressure it should. As soon as I replaced that tube my top rack cleaning issue went away.
I'm referring to #14 on the attached. From what I understand it is common for these to fail and I have seen this part still available on places like Repairclinic.com. In my case I had an extra rack with a good one so I just swapped them.
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| Post# 769028 , Reply# 25 7/8/2014 at 06:04 (3,582 days old) by Magic_Clean (Florida) | ||
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Just an observation Brian..........in picture # 6, it appears the lower wash arm is not fully seated on the shaft of the wash arm support. The stainless steel shaft should be flush with the top of the bronze wash arm bearing. This will negatively impact washability. ...L.P. | ||
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Post# 769036 , Reply# 26 7/8/2014 at 06:50 (3,582 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Ideal Water Temperature
120F should be fine if your DW properly boosts at least the main wash and the final rinse, I would never go past 130F for the sake of the WHs life and the life of all the hot water plumbing inlet valves hoses etc in your home [ to say nothing about a huge waste of gas or electricity of heating water any hotter than that ].
KA KDS-20 DWs do not do a good job of heating water, the only way you get any real heating is to run the Soak N Scrub cycle + the sani-rinse option, so you really have to keep your incoming water temperature near 140F. I have the KDSS-20 and keep my WH at 130F and the KD does ok but no where as good as my 1987 WP when I use the Hi-Temp Wash option. The problem with Hobart designed and built KA DWs is none of them ever had a thermal hold in either the main wash or final rinse so not only do you have to keep the incoming water temperature pretty high and even so the wash cycles were often too short to clean really dried on food soil off dishes. John L. | ||
| Post# 769102 , Reply# 29 7/8/2014 at 11:48 (3,581 days old) by JeffG () | ||
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As far as we've ever read, 140F is and has always been considered the minimum temp for sanitary washing in industry/commercial standards, in absence of bleach. Again if this is bad info I'm hoping someone will correct it. | ||
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Post# 769190 , Reply# 30 7/8/2014 at 16:56 (3,581 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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140F 
While doing a better job of sanitation than say 120F for automatic dishwashing historically the two main purposes of using temps of at least 140F were at least two.
One, to ensure powdered automatic dishwasher detergents fully dissolved. The second is that soils, fats, and oils commonly found on dishware are not easily shifted, kept suspended and or dissolved in cooler water. Anyone who has washed a sink full of dishes using warm or *gasp* cool water will notice greasy scum forming in the water and or clinging to surfaces. Way around this is to add more product but that will get you but so far. Older dishwashers required 140F minimum incoming hot water temps also because only a few had temperature hold features. That is the timer would not advance until the proper water temp in the wash and or rinse was reached. Standard for years was that the heater simply came on during the cycle and went off at the end or after the assigned heating period was over. Well it takes about one minute to raise water inside the DW about one degree. With the short cycles of older dishwashers starting at say 120F after about five or six minutes of heating you only ended up with 130F (if that) water temps. Of course today modern enzyme dishwasher detergents have replaced the highly caustic stuff of old. Enzymes can be designed to work in 120F or even lower temps, but will require longer contact times to "eat" off the gunk that formerly was blasted off with scalding water containing caustic chemicals. In order for a DW to shorten cycles it must have some sort of temperature feedback via thermometer to tell the machine water has reached the desired temp. Without such measuring ability don't see how the machine could "tell" what was going on inside the tub. As previously stated many early dishwashers fired up the heater regardless of what the water temp was and kept it on for whatever was set via the timer. A quick check of the electrical schematic should tell the tale. | ||
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Post# 769195 , Reply# 31 7/8/2014 at 17:07 (3,581 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Oh another thing about sanitizing dishes
IIRC NSA standards require water temps of 160F or above held for a certain period of time to avoid the use of chemicals when it comes to automatic dishwashing for ware that serves the public. Usually this is a final rinse of 180F which also serves to assist with flash drying of dishes. Everyone else has to use chlorine or some other chemical certified to do the job.
Historically automatic dishwashing detergents were loaded with chlorine based bleaching agents that worked to sanitize dishware. That plus hot to scaling water in very powerful streams that blasted grime off dishes did a remarkable job of ridding dishes of germs. Much of the sanitation was due to scrubbing off the biofilm on dishes that germs clung to and fed. So even if the germs were alive they still were flushed down the drain. Modern enzyme automatic dishwasher detergents cannot contain chlorine bleach but do have sodium percarbonate (oxygen bleach) along with often an activator. This forms peracetic (sp?) acid in water which is a powerful disinfectant. Indeed the liquid version is what brewers use to sanitize beer bottles before they are filled. | ||
| Post# 769214 , Reply# 32 7/8/2014 at 18:58 (3,581 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO) | ||
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Thanks everyone for your suggestions. As Ralph suggested, I started a new thread in the Imperial forum as dishwasher problems don't directly fall under the heading of w/h temp. settings. The links is below and I will respond to your replies. Thank you.
B. CLICK HERE TO GO TO beekeyknee's LINK | ||
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