Thread Number: 62439  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
57 Frogeye Kenmore washer, and matches set 59 Wirlpool Imperial
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Post# 850352   11/7/2015 at 19:41 (501 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        

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I got them all from one guy in Youngstown OH, quite rough condition, here's the SUDS model Frogeye, Item 110.57, so it's 1957 for sure,older than me

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Post# 850353 , Reply# 1   11/7/2015 at 19:44 (501 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
and the matched set 1959

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Whirlpool Imperial, year of my birth. Notice 2 drain hoses, also a SUDS model.

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Post# 850355 , Reply# 2   11/7/2015 at 19:46 (501 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
more pics

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They will need LOTS of work, TONS

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Post# 850359 , Reply# 3   11/7/2015 at 20:46 (501 days old) by washerlover (Lake County, California: Wines With Altitude)        
Score!

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Absolutely beautiful machines. Love the oversized chrome lid handle on the 'Pool. Never seen that before. Looking forward to seeing the restoration.

Post# 850361 , Reply# 4   11/7/2015 at 21:14 (501 days old) by PULLTOSTART (Mobile, AL)        
Congrats!

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Looks like you won big.  Do I spy a new avatar......

 

lawrence


Post# 850363 , Reply# 5   11/7/2015 at 21:27 (501 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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That's an awfully cute, distinguished, handsome looking Whirlpool repairman.  So dedicated to his vocation, looks like he at least naps on top of his work. 


Post# 850364 , Reply# 6   11/7/2015 at 21:28 (501 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Our friends in Dalas with the same frog eye washer, the tub was white porcelain. 


Post# 858583 , Reply# 7   12/27/2015 at 10:14 (451 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
1959 Whirlpool Imperial Washer and gas dryer

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Both inside, installed, and running! The washer had one broken bolt and one loose bolt for the snubber, that took about one minute. The pump needed one good pair of pliers to un-sieze it, now 6 loads later all seems well.
The suds valve lets about 1/8 of the water out the drain hose, but it works fine for sucking back in the suds, I may not bother to open it up. And the suds return power runs through the water level switch, Whirlpool was a smart bunch of engineers.
Desperate for a paint job, but all else is leak-free and perfect operation.
Compared to my 1960 and 1974, it has a shorter pump-out time, there's some left in the tub when spins kicks in, ?????

In 1959 they weren't too concerned about econo-cold wash, almost every temp you choose gives a warm rinse.
I was born in 1959, and have seen 2 different dates for 1959 on this machine so far!


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Post# 858584 , Reply# 8   12/27/2015 at 10:16 (451 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
and

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this washer has the 3 solenoid water valve!!!!!!Working perfectly, but almost every cycle has warm rinse unless you switch to cold after the wash fill. I will check out the W-n-W cycle probably ONCE, what a waste of water.

Post# 858585 , Reply# 9   12/27/2015 at 10:18 (451 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I thought I saw some sort of "WnW" designation on the temperature dial or am I not seeing correctly?  If there is a setting, that should give you a cold rinse automatically. The temp setting is supposed to be independent of the cycle selected.  The arrangement looks like typical 5 temp position switch.  3 settings with cold rinse and 2 with warm.


Post# 858586 , Reply# 10   12/27/2015 at 10:22 (451 days old) by golittlesport (California)        
Congratulations

You have a beautiful set there!

Post# 858587 , Reply# 11   12/27/2015 at 10:22 (451 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Dear Appnut

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How about I learn to steady the camera and get some good shots of the dial and the lid instructions?

As to the dryer, it fired right up, has both 165 degree hot and 135 low temps, but until I de-lint and tear into it, not much other news. Not quiet, but runs.


Post# 858597 , Reply# 12   12/27/2015 at 11:01 (451 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
better pics

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Here you go!
It looks like the WnW settings on the temp switch will give me a cold rinse, I'll check it and let you know. I'm guessing the temp switch operates the same wheether or not the timer knob is in the NORMAL or the Wash-n-Wear cycle. My guess is that while I may never use the WnW cycle, I may always use the WnW temps for the cold rinsing.

Between the flourescent light, the 3 solenoid valve, the 1959 model year, WOW WOW WOW.


One last thought, I believe I can't get a HOT wash/Cold rinse without switching mid-cycle.


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Post# 858600 , Reply# 13   12/27/2015 at 11:09 (451 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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an absolute fantastic machine.....congrats!

Post# 858601 , Reply# 14   12/27/2015 at 11:10 (451 days old) by moparwash (Pittsburgh,PA - Next Wash-In June 2017 )        

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Great finds!

Post# 858602 , Reply# 15   12/27/2015 at 11:18 (451 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Technically, "Medium" is about 120 degrees.  So yeah, let it fill on hot and then switch to cold or one of the w'n'w temps to get the cold rinse, whatever is closest to hot on the knob.  But medium is a good alternative to hot. 


Post# 858605 , Reply# 16   12/27/2015 at 11:53 (451 days old) by kd12 (Arkansas)        
Frogeye Kenmores

Looking at the Kenmore frogeyes, I can't place where they fell in the product lineup. Were they considered BOL, MOL, or TOL? Been wondering about that for a while.

Post# 858607 , Reply# 17   12/27/2015 at 12:13 (451 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Whirlpool!

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I love the machines - I am glad you got it running! The WP has such a awsome console!
I like the frogeye also - can you take a close up of the frogeye console!
I think the belt drive wow wow sound is great!
Best Wishes,
Peter



Post# 858620 , Reply# 18   12/27/2015 at 14:19 (451 days old) by golittlesport (California)        
KD 12

The Frogeye Kenmore design control panel started out as a TOL design back in about 52 or 53 with a large back-opening lid. By 1957 it was a MOL design with a side-opening lid.

Post# 858636 , Reply# 19   12/27/2015 at 16:06 (451 days old) by kd12 (Arkansas)        

Thanks! I thought I had seen them positioned toward the bottom of the mix in an old catalog. Makes sense now.

Post# 858670 , Reply# 20   12/27/2015 at 19:49 (451 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Dryer

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Old motor, still runs, I will take it apart and for cleaning and lubing

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Post# 858705 , Reply# 21   12/28/2015 at 00:15 (450 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Golittlesport,  Thank You!    I  remembered a  rear opening lid on a  "frog eye" style machine.   I always liked the styling on these old KM's.  A


Post# 858764 , Reply# 22   12/28/2015 at 11:58 (450 days old) by swestoyz (Waterloo, Iowa)        

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Wow - those '59 Whirlpool panels are to die for!  Very, very stunning.  Congrats!


Post# 859043 , Reply# 23   12/29/2015 at 23:35 (448 days old) by ovrphil (N.Atlanta Georgia )        

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My late congratulations(show up late as usual for the shows). I really love that Whirlpool gas dryer, the panel especially speaks of more innocent times, eh? I love the Whirlpool. That's my twin chiming in. :-) I

Shag rugs, snowsuits, Dacron, Orlon, and Acrilon - I remember when these were NEW fabrics.

Good luck with your new clan - keep us posted.

Phil


Post# 859102 , Reply# 24   12/30/2015 at 08:33 (448 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

LOL, Phil they were not just "New" fabrics.  They were "New, Miracle" fabrics.  A


Post# 859104 , Reply# 25   12/30/2015 at 09:20 (448 days old) by mopar65 (Almont MI)        
Awesome!

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I would love to see a video of your awesome set.

Post# 859173 , Reply# 26   12/30/2015 at 19:21 (448 days old) by ovrphil (N.Atlanta Georgia )        
Fabric magic!

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LOL! "new MIRACLE fabrics" - you brought up an oldie I forgot. :-)))

Post# 859289 , Reply# 27   12/31/2015 at 12:36 (447 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
thoughts

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the 1959 Whirlpool Imperial washer----it's GREAT!!! Things to note---Imperial with lighted console, but no dispensers at all, sort of strange. GENTLE cycle does not do a spray rinse after the deep rinse, while REGULAR does. SUDS runs long enough to actually get all the water back in the machine, and it's on normal speed sucking, then goes right into a 10 minute normal wash. If you have the water level on high, it pauses momentarily for the last inch of water to fill.

Definitely a shorter time for neutral drain than my 1960 or 1974, there's usually an inch of water in the bottom when spinning starts, but the pump works fine to get that out quickly.

I'm starting to like the warm rinses because on spray rinse, it's lots more water than just cold, it seems to be enough to compensate for the Kenmore/Whirlpool 4 short sprays instead of Maytag/GE/1-18 long constant sprays, clothes are well sprayed/spun out for the deep rinse.

It has the classic black Surgilator with great turnover, but I have a leftover early 50's straight vane I will sub, we'll see how that performs.

Suds saving lasts into about a minute of the spin, you really get ALL the suds saved, then you hear the solenoid snap and the drain hose operate for the spray spin. Damn fine manner for doing suds saving. And when returning suds, the water level switch is on, you can choose your new water level and the sucking stops.

The matching dryer has a drum lamp and ozone lamp, this washer does not have any tub lamp, oh well.

This is a "standard" 1959 tub, likely 9 pounds? And the agitator comes off easily. Can anyone suggest what Dual Action Agitator I should buy, for fun?


Post# 859349 , Reply# 28   12/31/2015 at 18:37 (447 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
1959 Whirlpool Imperial!

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Mark that 59 is such a awsome machine! One thing that does puzzle me is the shorter wash time - I never saw a belt drive WP with under a 14 minute wash! Can those 2 increments above the 10 on the timer indicate 4 more minutes of washing?? I did once hear or thought I heard on WP / KM belt drive their was a way to get extended wash time. I also remember very old friends having a 58 WP Imperial (timeline) - and what a beauty that washer was with the lighted panel and push button door. On the timer it had numbers 12 8 4 for wash time! They explained you can get 14 minutes if you started before the 12! That was one awsome washer and I remember it had shorter drain periods at only 2 minutes each! as the machine got older the pump had problems draining the water and constantly needed to be reset. They used to have to open the door with a butter knife because the button didnt operate any more. They replaced it with a 1967 kenmore 600 also nice!
Is it possible for you to take a closeup of the frog eye console!
Thanks Peter


Post# 859612 , Reply# 29   1/2/2016 at 10:48 (445 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Hey Pete

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Here's pics of the 1957 Frogeye, still out in the garage. Crappy lighting and crappy pics means crappy photographer

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Post# 859618 , Reply# 30   1/2/2016 at 11:47 (445 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Akronman,   thanks for the additional photo's of the "frogeye".  I really like their styling.  RE: reply #27  "the suds runs long enough to get all the water back...".   I think you want the return hose positioned so you do not get the last 2 inches of water where the soils settle, in actual use.  You are probably still testing?  Thanks again for the pics.   Arthur


Post# 859694 , Reply# 31   1/2/2016 at 22:18 (444 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Frog Eye!

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Mark thank you for posting the console!
Peter



Post# 859761 , Reply# 32   1/3/2016 at 10:16 (444 days old) by ovrphil (N.Atlanta Georgia )        
Just for fun -

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Here's a link to the matching dryer one of the members offered back in 2008, Dec.1.

The washer frog-eye dial is very cool - love the details.


Phil


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ovrphil's LINK


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Post# 860637 , Reply# 33   1/7/2016 at 21:30 (440 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
14 minute wash

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Hey Peteski-----you are correct, the dial has 10-8-6-4-2 printed, but it's got notches and detents for the 12 and 14 for sure. Personally, I don't think ANYTHING needs more than 10 minutes. If it needs more, stop it after 5 and soak for a half hour, then turn it back on.
This thing just cycles perfectly! My 1960 WP and 1974 Kenmore do the neutral drain far too long, this one kicks in the spin within about 15 seconds of hearing the pump suck air, just great. And somehow, while I've never been entirley impressed with the WP/Kenmore 4 sprays instead of GE/Tag/Norge/1-18 having those 1.5 or 2 minute plentiful spray rinses, this one gets more suds out than either the 60 or 74 models, who knows? No need for extra rinse or extra spray. Maybe it's because it's pre-set on many temp choices here to give a warm rinse, so both solenoids are open and more water than the 74 model. Then when spray is done, I switch to a cold rinse choice for the fill.

My 1960 Whirlpool Imperial Mark VII is impressive but the 10 pushbuttons means there's no dial to watch so you know exactly where in each cycle you are. And the 1960 timer has given me intermittent trouble as far as powering the 3rd solenoid on the inlet valve, often that mix valve doesn't work and MEDIUM means HOT, warm rinse means cold, etc, then it's fine for two months. Frankly, if you push the timer knob to the left, it works correctly but I've had it apart too many delicate times to try fixing it for a livable error. But this 1959 3 solenoid, with the clear choices on the temp switch as opposed to the "pre-chosen" pushbutton one, and the exact ability to start/stop anywhere on the dial, it's just perfect operation.
I like the 1960's visible Magic Mix filter where you can add the soap and watch the water, but the lint filter here seem to get more lint, so it's pretty darn cool too. I agree it's almost entirely unnecesary in modern machines and modern tumble-dried laundry, but lint filters are fun as hell. I have never complained that it's an ugly job to clean them.
I installed a 1950 3 vane, 3 stub agitator for about 5 loads, couldn't tell any difference from the Surgilator. But the Surgilator has a shiny chrome top, so I went back to it. It sparkles, you understand.




Post# 860687 , Reply# 34   1/8/2016 at 10:41 (439 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
1959 Whirlpool Imperial!

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Mark - thank you for the reply. even though I never owned a belt drive WP or KM I used quit a few in friends and extended family homes. As I always remember most of the time 14 was selected for wash time, but I myself did use 10 at least 1/2 the time and it would do a great job. I thought almost all the smaller capacity machines has 2 minute drain periods and the larger ones were the only ones with the 4 minute drains! I always liked the clear top magic mix filter and loved to watch the water flow through it. I was dissappointed when the came up with the solid white magic mix and you could no longer watch the water flow.
I am also impressed with that 1960 Imperial Mark VII - it looks so interesting - can you set the wash time on that? or is it selected by the fabric selector? I assume that did up to a 14 min wash also?
As for the spray rinses I always felt these machines did a good job in rinsing, but to me the 1/18 long spray was the best!


Post# 860695 , Reply# 35   1/8/2016 at 11:26 (439 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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My mom (and dad, when he washed) always set 6 mins wash time on the 1962 Whirlpool.

Tide was the go-to detergent and it suds-locked like crazy unless a minimal dose was used.  The first spin would sometimes drag-down by the 3rd spray rinse even if it started at full-speed.


Post# 860760 , Reply# 36   1/8/2016 at 20:57 (439 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Dual Action Agitator

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Left is a WP Surgilator, same exact as in the machine it sits on. Right is a Kenmore agitator from 1957, they are interchangeable. Standard size WP-Kenmore machines for years in this era.

Is there a dual action later agitator I can install? does anyone know the part number, or have one to sell?

Or, with this being a 59 model, a few years before they beefed up the tranny and added 3 braces for it, should I not attempt a dual action one?

Thanks
Mark


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Post# 860801 , Reply# 37   1/9/2016 at 03:07 (438 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        
Dual-action later agitator

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Mark,

In a few 1976-1981 standard capacity models, and a couple 1981-1984 24-inch Kenmore models was a standard capacity Dual-action agitator. None of these were high volume models, so finding a leftover is very rare today.

I will get you a part number but last time I checked they were NLA.

If your machine or machines use their original agitator shaft with the metal drive block that installs on the shaft via a single keyway, you won't be able to use the DA which needs a splined agitator shaft. If you have the 1963 beefed-up gearcase, the splines should be there under the plastic drive block.

The important part about the standard capacity dual-action is the shorter auger. They use the same base agitator as the very common large cap DA, but the auger is a number of inches shorter. The lid won't shut properly over a large capacity DA with its standard auger.

I will dig up the part number for the standard capacity kit DA and get back to you.

Cool machines you have there!!!

Gordon


Post# 860820 , Reply# 38   1/9/2016 at 06:32 (438 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Hi Gordon-----

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IT's nice to hear from you and thanks for the info. Yes I'd like the PN for the fun of searching for a rare agitator, but I bet all my KM/WP's have their original tranny's and shafts. Darn, it would be fun if it was an easy swap. And my extra-capacity 1974 suds model would easily take the larger DA agitator, but it's currently got a screw instead of bolt holding on the PENTA SWIRL, and I have never gotten that damn screw off!

I'll steal your name and become KenmoreGuyII I think, 'cause by pure luck and the great KM/WP sales of the 50's to 70's, I have ended up with 5 washers and 4 dryers of the era! Very glad this most recent dryer is gas, cheaper to run. One of my winter projects is extra plumbing and a new laundry sink along one wall of the basement, all for my 50's machines. I measured the wall and the machines, in order from left to right: Hamilton 1951 dryer, 1957 Frogeye suds washer, tub with standpipe, 1959 Whirlpool Imperial suds washer, finally its matching gas dryer.

Thanks for all your KM help and knowledge--
Mark



Post# 860833 , Reply# 39   1/9/2016 at 07:15 (438 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )        

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In the winter with incoming cold water temps being 40°F or less in our northern climate I use the warm rinse option to better remove detergent residues from our laundry. 


Post# 912905 , Reply# 40   12/28/2016 at 18:08 by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
spin problems

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The 1959 Whirlpool washer and dryer were working fine until:
No spin. Washer agitates well, pumps out, then the instant the wig-wag left side pops up to pull out the cambar, everything siezes up immediately. Also, the tub is locked solid during agitation, whereas my 1974 Kenmore has some play in it.

So, back to the 1959------IT also needs a new belt, so I'll get one before any dissasembly,is 57" V-belt #14952 correct? But I'm also wondering what to look for as I start repairs----probelms with the tension spring and plunger for the clutch, at the far end of the cam? Or Clutch and brake issues?
Hmmm...
Thanks
Mark


Post# 912951 , Reply# 41   12/28/2016 at 23:04 by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        
Spin issues...

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Mark,

Such cool machines! It was fun to look at this thread again.

I think you will be surprised how much a new belt will do. The most drag on the belt in the cycle operation is spin start. A sign of an aging or loose belt is a squeal at the switch to neutral drain from agitation and/or during the switch to spin from neutral.

The original belts, which were numbered something like 16192 and 16358, were long ago replaced by 95405, which fits all belt drives from 1956 forward that use the standard pulleys and the "new style" pumps that came out in '56. I think it fits the older models as well. The older belts commonly dried out or snapped. The 95405 has poly wire in it like belted car tires to give it more longevity over the old belts.

I would first lubricate the cam bar travel channels with something like white lithium or rykon grease, and under the basket drive yoke as well. Make sure you get the roller on the support that the cam bar bisects. Then manually activate the spin solenoid plunger by hand and turn the gear case drive pulley to move the spin cam bar in and out of spin. If it engages and disengages easily, your belt is the problem.

You might want to look also at the splines on the brake drum. This area might need lubrication as well.

BUT, start with a fresh belt and see what happens. They can quiet a machine, restore the woos, make the machine operate slightly faster, and make it seem to go from worn and tired to fresh and new again.

Good luck, hopefully this will get you going again. If not, we'll re-examine.

Gordon


Post# 912967 , Reply# 42   12/29/2016 at 05:38 by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Thank you Gordon

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I have ordered the #95405 belt, under $6, and will take your advice when it gets here.
Thank you, I'll keep posting!
Mark


Post# 912968 , Reply# 43   12/29/2016 at 05:41 by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Slightly off topic...sort of...

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But, is there any concern about using an FSP belt or a generic when replacing?

M.


Post# 913025 , Reply# 44   12/29/2016 at 14:43 by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        
Non oem belts for WP belt-drives

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Malcolm,

I haven't seen a lot of non-oem belts for BDs, but I know that they are out there. I have seen a couple ERP95405 on ebay, which is a common after-market parts company. I would imagine that Supco makes or made one, and possibly RobertShaw and a few others that had certain belt-drive parts.

I did buy a couple ERP belts just for comparison and curiosity not long ago but have not tried one yet. One that I did try was sold like an automotive fan belt, I think it was an AutoFlite 95405 belt. Not quite the same in cogs and exact construction, but I tried one a few years ago and the machine is fine, quiet actually.

The clincher here is that WP still offers the 95405 at my last check this summer, so my view is why buy an imitation when I can still get the right exact spec'd part and its widely available? $6 for a belt for a washer made in 1959 is stupendous that it is still around from the OEM supplier.

Gordon


Post# 913026 , Reply# 45   12/29/2016 at 14:51 by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        
Need to modify my response from last night...

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Mark -

I must have been tired when I was trying to describe the basket drive yoke support in my response above. The yoke itself does not need to be lubricated, but the support it sits on does, as does the cam bar spring (both sides) that looks like a bow tie.

Lubricate the support itself where it rides in the socket at the corner of the gearcase, and lubricate the roller in the middle of the support that rides on the cam bar. Also put a little grease on the underside of both ends of the cam bar spring.

I wanted to be sure I clarified this before my lousy description sent you in the wrong direction.

Gordon


Post# 913028 , Reply# 46   12/29/2016 at 15:07 by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Gordon---

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I'm doing NOTHING until the new belt arrives, don't worry. My 3 minute look yesterday shows dry dusty areas that should be shiny wet lubed, I've never done anything to the tranny and undercarriage since I bought this, I guess it's time when the belt arrives. The cam bars and that roller are bone dry after 57 years, no surprise.

Other than that, it's been a fine machine, and SUDS!!!!!!Between my hands and your brain, we'll get her washing again soon, THANK YOU!


Post# 913609 , Reply# 47   1/2/2017 at 11:28 by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
continued

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