Vintage american Finish dishwasher powder package

Was standard for all dishwasher detergents and or the machines themselves until rather recently. My GE Mobile Maid like many others states in owner's manual that incoming hot water should be at *least* 140F but higher is better.

Part of this was because many early automatic dishwashers either didn't heat wash water, and or the available wattage (power) could really only maintain tap water temps, not boost. Not that it mattered because machines often had several wash cycles with changes of water.

Then there was the fact early automatic dishwasher detergents like those in commercial use depended upon highly caustic ingredients to create a highly alkaline pH wash solution. High pH + fats/oils ='s soap, and that reaction is what cleaned dishes. Basically no different than mixing lye with fat... Hot to near boiling water ensured fats and oils helped dissolve grease, fats, oils and remove foods from surfaces. Chlorine bleach besides disinfecting properties also destroys protein which is a substance often found on dirty dishes (eggs, dairy, etc....).

Enzymes did not appear in dishwasher detergents until the 1990's IIRC. Cascade was the first (maybe Cascade Complete) with the marketing that one could now finally "skip the sink". That is the enzymes would break down soils like protein so you didn't have to pre-rinse dishes.

Side benefit of enzymes is they allowed dishwasher detergents to move away from chlorine bleach to oxygen (often activated in case of P&G and European brands)bleach. This was aimed at housewives and others (including Moi) that detested the whiff of chlorine bleach that came out of dishwashers when using detergents laden with the stuff.

As with laundry enzyme detergents work best in a cooler water range (120F to 140F) so there was an energy savings aspect. Also since enzymes need longer contact time to be truly effective dishwashers began to have longer wash programs. Lower energy use coupled with enzyme detergents are partially the reason we can now have dishwasher cycles that run for two or three hours.

OTOH on the commercial side chlorinated dishwasher detergents still rule. Most local public health laws require chemical disinfection where the dishwasher does not use water heated to a certain temperature. Also commercial dishwashers by and large do not run the long cycles found in domestic, so enzymes are pretty much a waste of time. Commercial machines pretty much are sanitizers and take care of remaining bits after dishes/pots or pans have already been pre-rinsed or washed.

This being said commercial suppliers do have various enzyme pre-soaks (usually for silverware), that are used to on things before they go into the machine.

My GE Mobile Maid cleans pretty well using older Cascade dishwasher detergent from my stash in its rather short cycles. Stuff contains enzymes and STPP, so am that happy. However on most loads do stop the washer after second wash and reset the timer for an additional. This is because it can be several days before the machine is filled enough to run and things have been sat sitting and thus have dried on food.

Think not using chlorine bleach based dishwasher detergent has helped prolong the lifespan of my Mobile Maid's tub and racks.


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Post# 917074 1/23/2017 at 08:01 (2,650 days old) by GRWasher_expert (Athens)
Checkrate/Likes 1 While exploring an old house in my neighborhood,I came across a very old american Finish powder box.Maybe somebody had brought it from the USA many years ago.It is unopened with the powder still inside, but the content is as hard as a stone.I took it to my home for further investigation.As I found online this packaging is from the 60s.I've taken some photos to upload(in one of them I compare it with today's Finish).Along with the finish,I also found some other dishwasher detergent boxes like Cascade.Since then I've been a little confused about the history of "Finish" brand.As i know,"Finish" was named "Electrasol" in the USA until 2009.Only in the UK the product was always sold as "Finish"(in most European countries it was Calgonit until 2009)So how can this American product exist with today's name ,50 years ago?I also found out that it wasn't manufactured by Reckitt Benkiser like today's finish but from a company called "Economics laboratory inc." based in St.Paul Minesotta(maybe it's today's Ecolab?).So I suppose that -the product was launched by another company somewhere in the 50s-60s under the name "Finish" -Some years later,maybe in the 70s Benckiser company acquired the brand name and renamed it to "Electrasol" -In 2009 it was renamed to Finish again as a part of Reckitt Benckiser's strategy of renaming its dishwasher detergent to "Finish" worldwidely Am I right?If there is an American who knows about the brand's history, let's give us some more information. Photos... < > Photo 1 of 6 View Full Size

Post# 917159 , Reply# 1 1/23/2017 at 16:59 (2,649 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)
Checkrate/Likes That would be late 50s/early 60s (lack of a ZIP code). Finish and Electra-Sol (how it was spelled back in the day) were both from Economics Laboratories (Ecolab), and completed with Cascade, Dishwasher All and Calgonite. As it was pretty much Ecolab's only volume consumer product, they sold both off to Reckitt Benckiser who gradually globalized to Finish as the brand. Finish was positioned as slightly more premium over the years (Electrasol was a fine white powder; Finish added blue speckles and was a little more granular--possibly spray-dried more like Cascade)

Post# 917208 , Reply# 2 1/23/2017 at 20:08 (2,649 days old) by GRWasher_expert (Athens)
Checkrate/Likes So Finish continued being sold along with Electrasol? When did Benckiser buy the brand names?Did US Calgonite belong to Benckiser too,like european Calgonit?

Post# 917249 , Reply# 3 1/24/2017 at 01:16 (2,649 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)
Checkrate/Likes Check out this thread for the history of Calgonite. Briefly, it was owned by Calgon, Inc., then sold to Merck, and then to Messrs. Reckitt Benckiser, CLICK HERE TO GO TO Supersuds's LINK

Post# 917377 , Reply# 4 1/24/2017 at 14:15 (2,648 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)
Checkrate/Likes 2 If I remember correctly, Calgonite was made by Beecham at one time. It disappeared in the 80's along with Dishwasher All that was made by Lever. Finish was called Big Load Finish and Electrosol was a powder and they come out with a liquid gel in the nineties. Finish disappeared from shelves in the late eighties here in the US. Until a few years ago, Electrosol was renamed Finish by Electrosol, then just pain Finish. The older Finish and Electrosol were two completely different formulas and worked very differently as well. Finish if I recall was loaded with seventeen percent phosphates by weight. It did clean well too.

Post# 917457 , Reply# 5 1/24/2017 at 23:58 (2,648 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)
Checkrate/Likes Dishwasher All was made much later than the Eighties. I remember getting it in the late Nineties. Lever then made a big push with Sunlight DW detergent and seemed to phase All out soon after.

Post# 917491 , Reply# 6 1/25/2017 at 09:23 (2,647 days old) by GRWasher_expert (Athens)
Checkrate/Likes That vintage Finish box I have in my hands doesn't have a complete list of ingredients.Maybe it wasn't mandatory back then.It is only points out that it contains sodium carbonate(bleach),sodium metasilicate(pH booster) and sodium tripolyphosphate(water softener).It doesn't mention anything about enzymes.Probably doesn't have any.

Post# 917507 , Reply# 7 1/25/2017 at 12:03 (2,647 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Nice Find!* The bleach would kill any enzymes which were not yet included in the forumlas and these detergents were meant for very hot water, like a minimum of 140F. We kept our water heater set to deliver 160F water even before we got a dishwasher because our first automatic washer was a suds saver Kenmore.

Post# 917689 , Reply# 8 1/26/2017 at 14:16 (2,646 days old) by GRWasher_expert (Athens)
Checkrate/Likes The instructions point out to use the hottest water possible, maximum 160 �F.When were enzymes first used in automatic dishwashing detergents?

Post# 917766 , Reply# 12 1/26/2017 at 21:13 (2,646 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes Think you may be right, but never heard nor saw Palmolive automatic dishwasher detergent.

Post# 917857 , Reply# 13 1/27/2017 at 16:08 (2,645 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *"...points out that it contains sodium carbonate(bleach)* No. "Sodium Carbonate" is not bleach, it is washing soda. Sodium Metasilicate is strongly alkaline. The formulation of Sodium Carbonate, Sodium Metasilicate, and phosphates, would very likely be aided by a chlorine based bleach, such as Sodium Dichloroisocyanurate. Biological (enzyme) dishwasher products arrived much later, usually with a milder alkaline formulation based on Sodium Disilicate, and with an oxygen bleach such as Sodium Percarbonate.

Post# 917858 , Reply# 14 1/27/2017 at 16:12 (2,645 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *Palmolive automatic dishwasher detergent* That's a mighty fine way to wash One's chandeliers!

Post# 917914 , Reply# 17 1/28/2017 at 01:36 (2,645 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *"That's a mighty fine way to wash One's chandeli* Have a close friend that we all have taken to calling "Roger De Bris" because he looks and acts like that character played by Christopher Hewett in film "The Producers". The fact the guy is a dead ringer for the late Mr. Hewett seals the deal. Anyway he and his partner (now husband)live in this grand home in an historic part of NJ. Their entry foyer and dining room both have grand chandeliers that are original to the house. One night they gave a dinner party and one along with some local friends from Manhattan drove out. The house of course was gorgeous as was the table, food, wine, etc.... It always was which is why invitations to events at the house were in demand and well received. Being rather young and (still) innocent during dinner paid "Roger" a complimiment about the table, silver and so forth and especially how the glittering chandelier set everything off so well. The rest as they say is history. Roger replied "well thank you but you see the light is off as the pieces are dull, I asked someone to clean them and instead of doing it the usual way HE took short cuts. Partner piped up" "the pieces look fine, nothing is wrong with them... Roger: "they are scratched and etched", a beautiful piece destroyed by carelessness. Partner: the *NG thing isn't destroyed and looks fine, stop being so dramatic. Roger: Shall have to go into town (Manhattan) to see if another can be found, or maybe while we are in Europe this summer..... sigh of course this wouldn't have happened if I had done things myself.. That is always the way isn't it? When you want something done right you just have to do it yourself. Partner: Then why didn't you do it yourself then? Roger: Well some of us have to work..... By this time was ready to ditch the wine for brandy, whisky or even gin, anything to get bombed enough to be numbed to this whole uncomfortable scene. Finally, again still being young and na�ve wondered into the fray to find out just what caused this furore. Turns out the husband had put the chandelier pieces through the dishwasher. Roger does it the old fashioned, labor and time consuming way; the thing is lowered and each piece is washed by hand in basins of water, rinsed, dried, then polished. Now these chandeliers were Louis XV IIRC, which means God only knows how many bits of crystal were up there needing to be cleaned and polished. Still it was interesting as had never given how chandeliers were cleaned a thought. Knew from that moment on however would never be getting one.

Post# 917736 , Reply# 9 1/26/2017 at 19:12 (2,646 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Hottest water possible* Was standard for all dishwasher detergents and or the machines themselves until rather recently. My GE Mobile Maid like many others states in owner's manual that incoming hot water should be at least 140F but higher is better. Part of this was because many early automatic dishwashers either didn't heat wash water, and or the available wattage (power) could really only maintain tap water temps, not boost. Not that it mattered because machines often had several wash cycles with changes of water. Then there was the fact early automatic dishwasher detergents like those in commercial use depended upon highly caustic ingredients to create a highly alkaline pH wash solution. High pH + fats/oils ='s soap, and that reaction is what cleaned dishes. Basically no different than mixing lye with fat... Hot to near boiling water ensured fats and oils helped dissolve grease, fats, oils and remove foods from surfaces. Chlorine bleach besides disinfecting properties also destroys protein which is a substance often found on dirty dishes (eggs, dairy, etc....). Enzymes did not appear in dishwasher detergents until the 1990's IIRC. Cascade was the first (maybe Cascade Complete) with the marketing that one could now finally "skip the sink". That is the enzymes would break down soils like protein so you didn't have to pre-rinse dishes. Side benefit of enzymes is they allowed dishwasher detergents to move away from chlorine bleach to oxygen (often activated in case of P&G and European brands)bleach. This was aimed at housewives and others (including Moi) that detested the whiff of chlorine bleach that came out of dishwashers when using detergents laden with the stuff. As with laundry enzyme detergents work best in a cooler water range (120F to 140F) so there was an energy savings aspect. Also since enzymes need longer contact time to be truly effective dishwashers began to have longer wash programs. Lower energy use coupled with enzyme detergents are partially the reason we can now have dishwasher cycles that run for two or three hours. OTOH on the commercial side chlorinated dishwasher detergents still rule. Most local public health laws require chemical disinfection where the dishwasher does not use water heated to a certain temperature. Also commercial dishwashers by and large do not run the long cycles found in domestic, so enzymes are pretty much a waste of time. Commercial machines pretty much are sanitizers and take care of remaining bits after dishes/pots or pans have already been pre-rinsed or washed. This being said commercial suppliers do have various enzyme pre-soaks (usually for silverware), that are used to on things before they go into the machine. My GE Mobile Maid cleans pretty well using older Cascade dishwasher detergent from my stash in its rather short cycles. Stuff contains enzymes and STPP, so am that happy. However on most loads do stop the washer after second wash and reset the timer for an additional. This is because it can be several days before the machine is filled enough to run and things have been sat sitting and thus have dried on food. Think not using chlorine bleach based dishwasher detergent has helped prolong the lifespan of my Mobile Maid's tub and racks.

Post# 917755 , Reply# 10 1/26/2017 at 20:33 (2,646 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes Should also mention that when dishwashers began appearing on domestic front many homes had water heaters set to crank out tap hot at 140F to even 160F or above as routine. The energy crisis of the 1970's and a few other things have caused that number to go down to 120F. At least with dishwashers now heating their own water and having (usually) thermostatically controlled timers, you don't need to have "boiling" hot water out of the taps.

Post# 917763 , Reply# 11 1/26/2017 at 20:59 (2,646 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Think the first enzyme dishwasher detergent was Palmolive Powder from Colgate---it was a compact powder that was pretty good.

Post# 917869 , Reply# 15 1/27/2017 at 18:22 (2,645 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Consumer's Research ran an article about the temperatures at various points in dishwasher cycles back when a lot of machines did not have a prewash and even with 140-150F water entering the machine, the wash water drained out at about 105-110F. We had 160F water going into our Mobile Maid and it had two prerinses before the main wash so the main wash was good and hot. I remember my mom's college roommate visiting us in the early 60s and she said that she used Finish in her machine. She lived in Chicago.

Post# 917913 , Reply# 16 1/28/2017 at 01:00 (2,645 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes First wash on my MM is called just that, then a "rinse", then main wash followed by two rinses. Find the first wash even with very hot water (about 140F to 155F) drains at around 120F or less depending upon how "cold" the dw is from sitting. During cooler months and or when the AC is on the thing and dishes in side are chilly. LOL Still the thing moves water like no body's business. You can actually see the machine move about slightly as the sprays of water hit interior. Pretty much like a commercial dishwasher today; give a MM plenty of very hot water and powerful detergent and it will scrub most things clean. Was reading a 1950's issue of CR with their report/ratings of dishwashers. Even then they advised pre-rinsing and or thoroughly scrapping dishes with protein foods like cereals, eggs, dairy, and so forth. Interestingly Hotpoint units were their top rated choice for 1950. Think Westinghouse was up there as well.