Thread Number: 69077  /  Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Sodium Percarbonate --kosher???
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Post# 918716   2/2/2017 at 00:33 (2,640 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

I'm out of oxygen bleach, and I refuse to buy oxi-clean as it's mostly filler so was looking for "pure" oxygen bleach.  Since it's sodium percarbonate I thought I'd look for that.  A number of them came up saying they are Kosher.  Why?

 

Anyone have a good cheap source? I used to use Clorox oxi-magic as it was mostly s-p with some sodium carbonate added, but none of my local stores carry it.





Post# 918728 , Reply# 1   2/2/2017 at 05:33 (2,640 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
For your purposes it doesn't really matter

launderess's profile picture
Just find the cheapest pure sodium carbonate.

Amazon.com, The Chemistry Store, eBay and other sources online are good places to start. Shipping may be issue due to weight, but still may work out cheaper than the little boxes purchased locally at retail.

www.eliyah.com/leaven.html...


Post# 918743 , Reply# 2   2/2/2017 at 08:28 (2,639 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
"Parve" "Kasrut" "Kosher"

If it is used for any canning, food prep, preserving, or in cooking, that may be why.
What makes Kosher salt parve is it is blessed by a Rabbi. Apart from animals that are not kosher for orthodox consumption like pork, if the food is blessed, it is kosher.
I learned this from being in the food industry. For Orthodox kosher cooking, dairy and meats are also not cooked in the same cookware, or even together. This is why many kosher kitchens have two refrigerators, two stoves and two ovens.


Post# 918750 , Reply# 3   2/2/2017 at 09:01 (2,639 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

It takes a lot more than blessing the animal to make it proper.

There are health standards, there is the method of slaughter,animals must be segregated and cannot see or hear other animals dying so as not to terrify them, only certain parts may be used. The animal cannot be shekked on Shabbos, etc. Even after slaughter, the organs must be inspected for disease, certain large nerves must be removed, as much blood as possible must be allowed to drain away. It's more complicated that one thinks.

It is possible that the chemicals you mentioned are manufactured in a factory where other things not kosher are manufactured. Also, possibly the management cannot guarantee the factory is shut-down on Shabbos or major Holidays, overall cleanliness, etc.

As for "dual kitchens" it has become quite the jaded luxury to have both meat and dairy kitchens. However, in the old country nobody had those luxuries and everybody kept everything completely proper.
The alter kockers of the old Lower East Side Tenements had a sink with a cold water faucet if you were lucky and a two burner gas stove. A lot of things simply got sent to a local bakery to have baked, or the Shabbos Cholent kept warm on the bakery's community blech.



Post# 918757 , Reply# 4   2/2/2017 at 10:11 (2,639 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

I have a basic understanding of kosher, I'm just wondering why this product would ever need to be considered kosher.  I can't fathom using it in food prep, even as a leavening agent.


Post# 918760 , Reply# 5   2/2/2017 at 10:28 (2,639 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Any product used in kosher food preparation or the cleaning of the preparation equipment needs to have the production overseen, but not liturgically blessed, by a qualified mashgiach, a rabbi with special training in kashrut. Just as with STPP, there can be kosher food grade and non-food grade categories. While I do not mind that the STPP that I use for the laundry comes from China and is therefore probably not pure, the STPP that I use as a dentifrice is food grade and is probably a product of mines here in the USA. I don't believe that my washers can get cancer, but I am not willing to trust my body to non-food grade STPP even for the two minutes two or three times a day when I brush my teeth.


Post# 918768 , Reply# 6   2/2/2017 at 12:14 (2,639 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
This would be an interesting topic unto itself. I don't know much about it either other than what websites I've read from different sources and there seems to be so many variants and discussions . Anyone Jewish here care to start one,, a non-political one, just about how you go about your lives, how strict do you adhere on the Sabbath etc etc.

Post# 918815 , Reply# 7   2/2/2017 at 20:16 (2,639 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Thank you very much for your interest

Books have been written on this and present as many viewpoints as there are authors. I think there is some book called Judaism for dummies, part of the for dummies series which might be a place to start. Herman Wouk's This is my God is a small, but rich book I first read in the 1970s. Essential Judaism by George Robinsom is bigger and richer, but you can pick and choose topics that interest you. Milton Steinberg's Basic Judaism, a book about the Jewish religion--its ideals, beliefs and practices--written for both Jews and non-Jews, is another of the thinner books and decades old.  My sister and I both have copies of a book she bought titled From the ten commandments to chicken soup by Michael Shapiro so that we could look at the same text while discussing it. It has an index in front so you can look up words and terms that make up short chapters divided up into Religion, History and Civilization. These are just the books most readily visible as I look from the computer to the book shelf. There are uncountable others, but a personal account turns too easily into a life story and I am not up to that.

 

All of these titles can be found for pennies on Amazon plus $3.99 for shipping. I will be happy to answer questions as best as I can. Google can help with questions, also, but the one question I urge you not to ask is "What do Jews believe?" because Judaism is not a religion of fixed dogma and is more a religion of action than of belief.  The study of Judaism is a process of questioning instead of learning what to believe. There is the joke about where you have two Jews you will have three opinions which is really true and is compounded by the "on the one hand you have, but then on the other hand you have" discussion style. Jews are called The People of the Book and while it originally meant the Torah, it can mean much more now.  Tiny Israel has a publishing rate many times that of all of its Muslim neighbors combined and that does not even begin to factor in the publishing of Jewish communities all over the world.

 

Happy reading and researching. I am here to help if you need it.


Post# 918827 , Reply# 8   2/2/2017 at 21:39 (2,639 days old) by mikael3 (Atlanta)        

I would guess that the coated version of the chemical is where the problem lies.  The word ‘coating’ covers a lot of ground, and organic sources of any type would naturally raise a lot of questions regarding kashrut.  From a quick glance at available brands, it looks like the uncoated varieties are the only ones marked kosher.

 

The two most helpful books I ever read about keeping kosher (and about Jewish life in general) were Hayim Donin’s To Be a Jew and To Pray as a Jew.  I’m not sure how helpful they would be to someone who knows literally nothing about Jewish life and religion, but with the Internet and all that, I imagine it would be easy to clarify unfamiliar terms or concepts.  For a non-Jew, parts of it are absolutely eye-opening. 

 

Most people know the simple rules like ‘no cheeseburgers’ and ‘no shrimp cocktail’, but those are so simplistic that they actually distort the real meaning of the laws.  Keeping kosher is an integral part of Jewish life and culture, not just a bunch of menu suggestions.


Post# 918901 , Reply# 9   2/3/2017 at 09:18 (2,638 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Here's a link to a website with some online reading material.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...



Post# 918998 , Reply# 10   2/3/2017 at 17:09 (2,638 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Great idea, Louis. I didn't even think of my bookmarks.


Post# 919021 , Reply# 11   2/3/2017 at 19:05 (2,638 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
IIRC coated sodium percarbonate is a bit more shelf stable than the uncoated variety. The coating is designed to help product resist moisture I believe which is a good thing. SPC will cake, clump and form a rock hard mass if lest exposed to moisture too long. Have purchased/seen at estate sales boxes of vintage "oxygen bleach" that were SPC based that were basically bricks or packages full of lumps.

Post# 919100 , Reply# 12   2/4/2017 at 00:09 (2,638 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
STPP is a common food additive. I'm not sure about sodium percarbonate, though. But who knows, the food industry adds all sorts of bizarre things to processed foods.

For laundry purposes, though, I doubt even the most devout Hassidim would care if a detergent component was Kosher or not, as long as it's not on the list of the "unclean". Am I wrong?


Post# 919152 , Reply# 13   2/4/2017 at 09:58 (2,637 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

They would look for kosher certification on any processed product brought into the home because, don't forget, dish cloths and towels are washed in the washer in which the various cleaning agents have been used. Cleaners for glass, floors and walls have to have kosher certification because the cleaning cloths will go into the same washer and some of the cleaners will be used on surfaces that will come into contact with food or dishes. It is a long chain with many links, none of which are unimportant if you are that devoted to your religion.


Post# 919154 , Reply# 14   2/4/2017 at 10:04 (2,637 days old) by mikael3 (Atlanta)        

Correct me if I’m wrong here.  I’m basing this on what I’ve heard and read in the past. 

 

Since laundry soap is inedible, it shouldn’t be a problem for kashrut, even if it includes treif ingredients. However, for things like tablecloths and cloth napkins and dishtowels, the residual presence of soap made with treif animals is unacceptable to many people. Kosher detergent isn’t required, but for these people, it is apparently desirable.  This may have been more of an issue a few decades ago, when soap was routinely made with animal fat.  That’s not really the case any more. 

 

The concern about animal fat in soap led me to think that the coatings on the sodium percarbonate were the problem.  Those may or may not be made with animal products, and it really doesn’t matter.  But since some people want kosher detergent, it’s easy to give them what they want with a hechsher for the pure chemical—which is obviously kosher.

 

This question is really fascinating to me, and after spending way too much time looking up answers on line, I can’t say that there was a lot of information.


Post# 919161 , Reply# 15   2/4/2017 at 10:35 (2,637 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Here's a website where you can look up if a product is kosher or not. There is quite a list of laundry detergents.

oukosher.org/product-search/...



Post# 919309 , Reply# 16   2/4/2017 at 21:27 (2,637 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Well, I know that devout Hindus will not wear leather shoes or garments made from cattle skin, but do Muslims, similar in their dietary restrictions to Jews, require Halal laundry detergents?

I confess to being a bit astonished at the lengths to which religious observance can go, but then in our our land, I understand that it was forbidden in the more religious communities to drag a chair across the floor on Sunday, because it would make imaginary furrows in the imaginary dirt floor, which was too similar to plowing a field which in turn would be the sin of working on a Sunday.

Some of these observances make scientific sense, of a sort, to me. For example, regarding swine as unclean and unfit for human consumption. This was probably in part due to the trichinosis they probably carried in more primitive days, which has a quite deleterious effect on human health if the meat is not cooked thoroughly (I understand modern pig farm sanitation has greatly reduced, although not eliminated, that problem).

Similarly, the near deification of cows means that the provider of milk for the family will not be slaughtered for food itself.

The rest I accept as matters of faith, and as such, cannot be proved or disproved.


Post# 919314 , Reply# 17   2/4/2017 at 21:46 (2,637 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
So Tom and any others that want to chime in.. Do you not turn on anything electrical on the Sabbath incl flipping a light switch, rely on timer to do it.. in that doing so creates a spark. I see they have fridges with Sabbath mode.. if you don't have one of those do you avoid opening the fridge door because of the light turning on or it causing the compressor to start?

Somewhere in my reading up I saw something about how a wire would be strung around a neighborhood block and it had something to do with that allowing certain or all forbidden things on the Sabbath to be done?


Post# 919378 , Reply# 18   2/5/2017 at 06:42 (2,637 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)        

jamiel's profile picture
The delineation of a neighborhood with a "string" or "wire" is called an Eruv, and within the area the strictures are relaxed somewhat on the Sabbath. The main difference I'm aware of (I lived within an eruv when I lived in Dunwoody, Georgia) was that the Jewish families could use baby strollers on Saturday. Don't have much more first-hand knowledge than that (am sure there are some similar established here in Oak Park/Southfield/West Bloomfield)...heaven knows they shifted the route of I-696 to accommodated an Orthodox neighborhood in Oak Park.

Post# 919418 , Reply# 19   2/5/2017 at 10:13 (2,636 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Jamie L,

I always wondered why I-696 just wasn't built along the Ten Mile road route. It jogs up to 11 Mile rd. before Southfield road and again on the east side at Ryan rd.
The interchange bridge over I-75 was built in the early 70's.
I thought maybe it had more to do with the Telegraph/Northwestern hwy./Lodge/696 mixing bowl.
Maybe DaveMkrayoguy will know more. He lives in Oak Park. I do remember the neighborhoods trying to stop it.
The Detroit area Jewish enclave was originally in the Pingree st. area that was burned by the '67 riot, and LaSalle Gardens. Of course they had moved on long before that up to Sherwwood Forest near Fashion Avenenue area 7 Mile & Livernois, then to Oak Park, Huntington Woods, Southfield, the West Bloomfield.
Maybe some even lived in Rosedale Park.
I knew one man who told me they were not allowed to live in Grosse Pointe way back when.


Post# 919422 , Reply# 20   2/5/2017 at 10:30 (2,636 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

For several years I lived within an Eruv. IIRC, it also allows the use of keys & locks on the Sabbath. I've heard it's been interpreted as allowing the use of cars for the sole purpose of bringing a person who cannot walk the distance from home to Temple, provided the entire route is within the Eruv. I believe use of keys/locks, strollers, and cars can be constituted as "work" which is not allowed on the Sabbath.

I learned a lot of this from a Sephardic Orthodox co-worker who grew up in Morocco. Her husband is Ashkenazi. While the 'rules' of what is or isn't allowed under various circumstances are similar, the interpretations can apparently be quite different. My co-worker was frequently astonished at how many of her husband's family/community seemed more concerned with following the letter of the law than adhering to whatever philosophy/point/reasoning was behind it. I recall one story of when she was travelling alone with her young children when weather left them stuck at an airport. She had to feed her kids. She went to the one available restaurant, found out that the butter was OU, and ordered boiled/broiled fruits and vegetables for herself and her children. Her husband's family was scandalized by her behaviour.

In my co-workers defense, she frequently reminded me that her stories applied to her husband's family/community and should not be used to generalize.

I guess my point is to add some anecdotal information and to re-inforce Tom's point of "2 Jews, 3 opinions".

Jim


Post# 919430 , Reply# 21   2/5/2017 at 10:52 (2,636 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

I do not refrain from using electricity on Shabbat, but I don't undertake large amounts of work either using electrical appliances or requiring tools. I read, listen to music, watch TV and use the computer at various points in the day. I drive to synagogue. There are some very Orthodox who eschew all use of everything mechanical that involves starting or stopping any device that causes the technical "spark" or "arc" involved in making electrical contact because that involves making light. Ovens can be left on to keep food warm if they were turned on before Shabbat started. When electronic oven controls were introduced, they shut off automatically after a certain number of hours so the "Sabbath mode" was added to ovens permitting them to operate for the 25 hours of Shabbat. In Israel and in kosher resorts elsewhere, on Shabbat the elevators stop at each floor so no one has to push a button and make electrical contact to select a floor or call for an elevator.  To the really Shomer Shabbat (those who really keep the Sabbath) there are many acts prohibited on Shabbat because they are related to the work God performed in creating the world. If you want to get right down to it, talking should be prohibited on those grounds also since everything God did is introduced by the phrase, "God said."  Genesis 1:3, "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." But in the next verse, God divided the light from the darkness. This is an act of separation in the work of creation and is the reason for gefilte fish. Gefilte fish is prepared by separating the flesh of the fish from the bones before combining it with chopped onions, eggs and seasonings to form the quenelles before they are poached. That allows us to eat fish (and horseradish) on Shabbat without separating the flesh from the bones of the fish since you can't eat the bones except from canned salmon so, if the can of salmon is labeled kosher, you could eat salmon loaf or patties on Shabbat.  Fish fillets can also be eaten on Shabbat because there are no bones in them, we hope. To me Shabbat is a day of delight and rest that is anticipated all through the week. My soul or spirit is refreshed by the worship service, the discussion over questions and topics introduced by the Rabbi, the fellowship with friends over food after the service and the rest, a time for me with no deadlines or schedule. Shabbat is, according to Rabbi Jacob Rader Marcus,  a cathedral of sanctified, separated time within time, when we take time to enjoy and be grateful for what is ours, and do not seek to create or purchase additional material goods. It is a special gift set apart from the rest of the week. This separation is sanctified and comes from the creation story in Genesis. God rested from the work of creation on the seventh day and was refreshed. God blessed the rest and gave Shabbat as a gift to us.

 

When the Mishkan or tabernacle was built in the desert, its furnishings were inscribed with the term Kadosh L'Adonai, Holy unto God. You can see the words in Hebrew in the Tiffany Studio's window depicting the building of the Tabernacle in the desert at the Chapel on Jekyll Island, ironic since it was a restricted private club. The Mishkan was a place where God and the people of Israel might draw close to one another. This holiness extends to other places and our homes are considered mikdashim, holy dwellings because of the commandment "You shall be holy for I the lord your God am holy." So we strive to make our lives and homes holy. Because our homes are holy and the meal table is an altar where sustenance is blessed before being consumed, we do not bring things into the home that would harm or defile the holiness which is one of the reasons for looking for kosher-certified products. It is not that they have been blessed, but that there is something beyond purity and ethically proper preparation in them. Kosher slaughter with one swift severing of the jugular vein is supposed to painlessly render the animal unconscious very quickly. There can be no imperfections in the knife edge that would cause the animal pain if the rough place caught on the animal's flesh.  There is even a prohibition from these ancient times against eating the limb of a living animal. Before refrigeration or preservation techniques, people used to chop off an animal's leg or as much of it as was needed to eat and let the animal stay alive since while it was alive, the meat would not go bad. Kosher products are not contaminated or adulterated by other things. If you will remember from chemistry class, there are purity ratings for certain chemicals: pharmaceutically pure and chemically pure. In the chemistry lab, chemicals have to be chemically pure to avoid messing up chemical experiments, altering reactions or causing other undesired results. The slight impurities tolerated in a pharmaceutical compound will not affect the patient or outcome. The kosher food grade rating is similar this. It is certified to not contain other ingredients which would not be necessarily harmful anyplace else, but would not be good if they come in contact with anything food-related. When CocaCola was made kosher, for example, the source of glycerin in the formula had to be changed because it originally was a pork byproduct.

 

I know you can see the dichotomy of my using food-grade STPP for a mouth rinse and non-food grade STPP in the laundry. I do not know if the STPP from China sold by the Chemistry Store is kosher or not nor its degree of purity because the only kosher STPP is food grade. My father alav hashalom, is not here to tell me what goes into getting a hechsher or kosher certification for cleaning and sanitation products or the ingredients in them, but I remember him telling me about one of the companies with which he worked getting kosher certification so that they could market to kosher establishments. 

 

To correct something written above about kosher and pareve. Pareve means dietarily neutral, neither meat nor dairy. Salt, vegetables, fruits, most vegetable oils and flours and eggs are pareve. Depending on any additives added in production of the processed product, these can be kosher or not and pareve products can be combined and eaten with either meat or dairy items in meat or dairy preparations. The same flour that makes a dairy cake can also make meat gravy.  You can't put butter with the meat, but separately, either a meat or dairy food can use a pareve product. Beans are kosher. Pork and beans are not. Heinz vegetarian baked beans in tomato sauce was the first commercially prepared food product mass-marketed in this country. Even though eggs are sold in the "dairy" section of grocery stores, it is more because of the grouping of refrigerated cases, not that they are dairy. As a friend once said, eggs come out of a chicken's ass, not out of a cow's udder.


Post# 919431 , Reply# 22   2/5/2017 at 11:03 (2,636 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
refrigerators & Shabbat

I wrote earlier about an apartment building owned by a community of diamond cutters in New York. In the late 50s-early 60s, they replaced all of the refrigerators with TOL Westinghouse, I think, models that proved to be a disaster because the residents were in the habit of unplugging the refrigerators before the start of Shabbat. Horror or horrors, these boxes had electric door openers! The were all replaced within a week with a model one step down without the electric door opener.

 

Lights in refrigerators and ovens were unscrewed before the start of Shabbat so that they would not come on when the door was opened for those who left both plugged in.


Post# 919602 , Reply# 23   2/6/2017 at 00:18 (2,636 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        
I have to say I'm impressed

with the in-depth explanation on this subject!  I love this site and the wealth of knowledge folk share.  I truly appreciate the education I've gotten on this subject.


Post# 919612 , Reply# 24   2/6/2017 at 01:27 (2,636 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
For myself I guess the inquisitiveness is because growing up here I never knew anyone Jewish that I knew of and I never even knew there was a Synagogue her in town until a couple of years ago, after we moved back here from my 30 some year absence.

I can remember though when I got my first job as an usher at the theatre downtown and the box office lady whom I really didn't care for because of her how do I say this politely without offending anyone, her arrogant British speak. I guess I can say it because both my parents are from the UK but were never that way.

Anyways one evening Mr & Mrs Friedman iirc their name, they owned a downtown store, came in to the show and bitter Dorothy the box office hag made some cryptic comment about him afterwards. It was like, what? I'd never heard anything like that before and it never would have occurred to me or even entered my mind that they were Jewish. Not that I cared then or now what religion a person practices.

We certainly weren't brought up that way. Dad wasn't religious, mom was brought up Anglican in the UK and when we were really young put us in Presbyterian Sunday School but not for long after my older sister realized they were home in bed.. lol.. I asked mom why she enrolled us in Sunday school back then and she said only because she wanted us to have the experience,, none of us kids are baptized,,she also left that up to us to decide later. She quit going because she said all they were interested in was who had what,how to get money for a new church stove etc. etc.nothing much about helping others etc. Mom and dad later went on to become early members of the Port Huron and Sarnia Unitarians.


Post# 919641 , Reply# 25   2/6/2017 at 08:13 (2,635 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
My oven has

a sabath mode. When set, only the oven light works. No cooking from sun up till sun down on Saturday for the orthodox and most conservatives. Reformed, not so much.
I had the opportunity to visit a reformed temple with a friend in Florida for Passover. We had to buy tickets, but I felt very welcome.
You know how they say we all have one that got away? He was it. He unfortunately left us in 2004. Just a sweet kind very handsome person.
I still get that ding when I look at his photo.
He suffered with a bi-polar disorder. We both met other people, but the feeling was very mutual. I had just broken up with me ex of 11 years when we met on vacation down there in '93. Maybe I was just a big chicken. Maybe I could have given him more reason to want to stay around. I'll never know now, not in this life.
He died in Schenectady. Rest in peace Scott.


Post# 919680 , Reply# 26   2/6/2017 at 13:03 (2,635 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
It's Reform

Tickets for Passover? Was it  a Seder at a synagogue? Those people pay to attend.


Post# 919700 , Reply# 27   2/6/2017 at 14:26 (2,635 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
My knowledge of such events is through "Curb Your Enthusiasm". I had never heard of tickets being required for religious services. Makes sense, though.


Post# 919860 , Reply# 28   2/7/2017 at 07:57 (2,635 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
No seder meal Rich.

That I'd remember. We ate at his parents after the service. Beef brisket, tsimis, onion soup, krepla, and noodle kugel.
Our catholic church growing up used to have a seder meal on holy Thursday. Just herbs and wafers. Fennel, dill, and unlevaned crackers and bread.


Post# 919861 , Reply# 29   2/7/2017 at 07:59 (2,635 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Sorry,

I meant Tom.

Post# 919886 , Reply# 30   2/7/2017 at 10:43 (2,634 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Delicious menu, but

That was not a Passover meal. Kreplach and noodle kugel are chometz and are not foods for Pesach.  Did the onion soup have toast and cheese (au gratin) in it? If so, they just didn't keep kosher or serve traditional Passover foods so what the hell, maybe it was Passover. If you needed a ticket to get into a service, it was the High Holidays and given the meal, it was probably Rosh Hashana. Nobody would take a friend they wanted to keep to a Yom Kippur service and the food was waaay to heavy to break the fast.

 

The main Passover meal is the Seder, which is usually done at home so even on Shabbat there is no evening service at the synagogue, but there are congregational Seders, and the festival service is the morning after the Seder so I am having trouble understanding the meal, the service and the ticket.

 

All of this is small potatoes compared to the loss of your friend. I'm sorry your friend is gone.


Post# 919899 , Reply# 31   2/7/2017 at 11:43 (2,634 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Thank You Tom!

He is with the angels now. When we met I asked if they were Conservative or Reform. "Very Reformed" he told me.
They were not very religious, but among the nicest people I have ever known. They were his adoptive parents. His birth certificate said "baby Friedman". They lived in Valley Stream NY before Florida. His brother lived in Schenectady.
When I was there it was March.
If you can picture Montgomery Clift and Erol Flynn together as one very affectionate man, you can get why I was very smitten. We were both in retail.
He loved Judy Garland and Liza. We would watch show after show when I visited. The movie of the play "Nine" or 9&1/2 also.



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