Thread Number: 69708
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Speed Queen Front Loader Dead in the Water: Round Three |
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Post# 926250   3/11/2017 at 15:35 (2,603 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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Round one: www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T... Round two: www.automaticwasher.org/c... Yes folks the infamous motor board eater is back up to it's old tricks. Same situation, stops mid load and an electrical burning smell fills the air and two of four green lights are flashing...seems like, well seems like just a few weeks ago all over again doesn't it? One or two new wrinkles to the tired tale, so don't go away... This time I called SQ and got their parts guy on the line. He gave me the direct number AND the name of the best SQ parts distributor in my area. Then I called the SQ dealer who put in the first board and told them to come with a new board AND pump cause...well history often repeats on this machine doesn't it? I told him the info SQ gave me cause, like the last place he had no clue about SQ over nighting parts, as they will do if you know how to order them to take advantage of their speedy parts delivery program. Great(!), parts can in a flash but his repairmen were slammed and I'd have to wait until the weekend. So FLer from H-E double hockey sticks was down another full week. Okay i can live with that having waited twice as long in each of the previous go rounds. So guy shows up and determines yes the board is toast: He puts in the new one- machine still not working. He reattaches a loose wire to start switch-progress! Machine proceeds to over-fill- crap! He determines the pump is not working right and goes to truck for the new one- so glad I made sure they would be prepared for the Satan of suds that lives in my laundry room! He vacuums out buckets of water. He removes old (3 weeks old, hah!) pump-clean as a whistle, no debris this time! New pump in- machine up and running! So for those keeping score this machine has fried it's first board, and was fixed by replacing the board. It smoked another board and pump wherein the machine over filled and sock debris was found. And it has now eaten it's third board and second pump, but on this ocassion the machine again overfilled, however no debris or sign of clogging was found anywhere...we looked. Calgon take it away! Okay some info the tech told me: If the pump is faulty it effects many other things operationally on the machine. Also, i am not alone, he is replacing these boards OFTEN. Whirlpool charges a core for Motor Boards, SQ doesn't. His shop is told to keep this board for three months then trash it. He doubts they will replace my machine. Me, "is that something SQ does? Him, "not really". I believe their is an electric issue in the wiring of this machine that will probably continue to fry vulnerable components until found. I will be calling SQ this week to give me an outline of what they plan on doing WHEN THIS MACHINE FAILS AGAIN in the near future. We get an average of 30 loads per board/pump and that number is shrinking. |
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Post# 926252 , Reply# 1   3/11/2017 at 15:49 (2,603 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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Post# 926315 , Reply# 2   3/11/2017 at 22:03 (2,602 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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Thanks Eddie I appreciate the support. This has actually taken a bit of a toll on me. My 88 year-old mother now doesn't want to do her wash because she is, "afraid she might break something." My rich older brother thinks I can't do anything right...even buy a washing machine for our mother. His family's LG pair, which he researched zero about like most things he buys, suffers no problems. Our guest was sent out to do her laundry yesterday. My children can't wear their favorite cloths as much as they would like because we cannot wash them very frequently...the Speed Queen is simply too often broken waiting for parts/repairs. I spend a lot of time learning about washers, yet our neighbors and friends know virtually nothing and still have their washers work normally. My wife is kind enough, but probably wishes I would get another hobby and get us a regular brand that works. I hadn't heard of Speed Queen for the home until this website, nobody in our family had. We probably would have bought a nice comparably dependable Whirlpool, LG or Electrolux that, if it somehow broke nearly as often as our SQ would certainly have been replaced by now with a new unit from the manufacturer. This post was last edited 03/11/2017 at 23:44 |
Post# 926331 , Reply# 3   3/12/2017 at 03:03 (2,602 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 926359 , Reply# 5   3/12/2017 at 08:03 (2,602 days old) by Steved (Guilderland, New York)   |   | |
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Contact your states consumer protection agency www.dca.ca.gov... and see how to file a complaint. |
Post# 926435 , Reply# 6   3/12/2017 at 20:13 (2,601 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Reflecting upon one's previous comments think you should really take a firm line and demand SQ replace this washer. Tell them you'll make such a stink they've never seen unless they do so.
Far too many repairs on parts that should last far longer than a few months, especially for a washer marketed as built to "commercial laundry" standards. There is something quite wrong when an appliance toasts motherboards like housewife making breakfast for a family of five. That is IMHO something is causing this washer to damage newly installed motherboards quickly. Personally after the first I'd have requested a new machine, but that is just me. Get on the telephone with Alliance and ask to speak with someone high in the food chain. Don't be fobbed off to a low level functionary and state your case. This post was last edited 03/12/2017 at 20:40 |
Post# 926444 , Reply# 7   3/12/2017 at 20:44 (2,601 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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Ditto Laundress! I would have done this after the second time it required major work. I know that many people feel that Alliance can do no wrong, but I don't think any of them would feel the same loyalty if they'd gone thru this run around. Any manufacture can produce a lemon, even the very best. The right thing to do would be for Alliance to send a new machine, along with a sincere letter of apology and call it even. It also seems that they need to provide a service providers in Robert's area that are more familar with the SQ products.
So Robert get on the phone first thing on Monday add go to the top of the ladder at Alliance to state your case and request a replacement. Eddie |
Post# 926445 , Reply# 8   3/12/2017 at 20:45 (2,601 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Who wreck appliances with "di-a-bo-lick-al sab-oh-tay-gee" (diabolical sabotage).
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Post# 926458 , Reply# 9   3/12/2017 at 21:56 (2,601 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)   |   | |
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I was thinking that you might have an issue with power surges in your area causing the boards to fry on you. If thats not the case, there could very well be an issue with wiring in your machine or worse.
If you get no satisfaction from the dealer or SQ about replacing your lemon of a front loader, call your state Consumer Bureau and find out what your rights are in this matter. I know here in Massachusetts our consumer protection laws are quite robust and had to go to Consumer Affairs bureau for advice and they told me that state law will supersede any warranty exclusions that a manufacturer tries to immune themselves with. Here in Mass there is an "implied warranty" where the product should do what its supposed to do like wash clothes, freeze, cook, etc. If it doesn't and you have contacted the dealer and manufacturer and still got no where, then you can contact the state and you will get action. Once a dealer hears that you have gone that route, its better for them to give you what you want to remedy the issue right away or else the state will step in...and they don't want that. |
Post# 926476 , Reply# 10   3/12/2017 at 23:52 (2,601 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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the OP's other posts where he in fact "TRIED TO CONTACT" the powers the be at SQ, but he kept getting the run around. There MUST be a way to get through to someone with power at SQ and bypass all of the rep's that are of zero help! I'm sure if he could get in touch with someone with power at SQ this would be resolved quickly.
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Post# 926481 , Reply# 11   3/13/2017 at 00:54 (2,601 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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When Alliance was just beginning to dip their toes into the residential/OPL market it was easier to reach top people. You just called in to the main office, asked and that was that; you got put through.
Now that Alliance has gotten all grown up it seems that they've gone "corporate" and thus you can no longer reach anyone other than "customer service". Still shouldn't let that deter; keep telephoning and writing letters until someone in authority contacts in return. I'd surely light a fire under that dealer to see what he can do about a replacement machine. Again threatening to make life a tornado until satisfaction is reached. |
Post# 926553 , Reply# 15   3/13/2017 at 11:01 (2,601 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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I called SQ again and was told, nicely this time at least, "we do NOT and will NOT replace your washer from this end...call your dealer and work through them." We kibitzed back and forth about wiring harnesses and pumps...'stuck pumps burn out both the pump and the motor board every time' is my summation. He also speculated that in the last failure perhaps the pump was obstructed and burned out both itself and the board, but did manage to pass through the something it was choking on so there is no evidence of the clog remaining. I reminded him the first board failure didn't happen while the machine was in operation and the pump did not in that instance need to be replaced. He then noted, "it is a new design blah blah blah..." Let me at this point reiterate, he wasn't snotty like the last SQ rep I spoke with, but was nice and we spoke at legenth trying to trouble shoot all these board failures. My take away: how in the hell do these Speed Queen front loaders possibly function in a demanding environment if they are so ready to fail in our comparatively undemanding one? Why would you not protect the motor board with a buffer of some sort? How can I, in any scenario, replace this unit with another SQ like it knowing how prone to life ending failure they are? Because remember, to have a motor board and pump replaced out of warranty is upwards of a $1,000 repair bill. So next I called the dealer in Michigan. The customer service rep was no nonsense, knew her stuff, and got straight to it. They are seeking a return authorization from SQ now... At least the machine is currently working so the wait will be far more bearable. This post was last edited 03/13/2017 at 15:52 |
Post# 926559 , Reply# 16   3/13/2017 at 11:36 (2,601 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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Post# 926560 , Reply# 17   3/13/2017 at 11:46 (2,601 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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I've said it before and I'll say it again.
All my Speed Queen experiences from apartments and college dorms. They are indeed durable machines that will last a long time. But I have not seen them really hold up to "abuse" as well as others may say they do. Under very normal use conditions, they will likely perform fine for a long while. But I've used many SQ machines through the years in dorms and apartments, and there are always a number of units that are broken for one reason or another. Likely from abuse of course. CoinMach still owes me about $5.00 in quarters from broken SQ machines that they've refused to repay me since 2006. That's when I switched to a local laundromat that used all Maytag top loaders and Neptune front loaders. In the two years I went there, surrounded by some unsavory people who knew nothing about laundry, there was maybe 1 broken dryer in the dryer banks. And 1 broken Neptune that I saw. So yeah......compared to where a lot of name brand appliances have gone in recent years, SQ has seen itself emerge as "the most durable." But historically speaking, I think they're pretty average. The cult following will continue to perplex me :) |
Post# 926575 , Reply# 18   3/13/2017 at 13:03 (2,601 days old) by brucelucenta ()   |   | |
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You can get a lemon in ANYTHING and that is what this appears to be. |
Post# 926576 , Reply# 19   3/13/2017 at 13:09 (2,601 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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Post# 926766 , Reply# 20   3/14/2017 at 10:10 (2,600 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 926781 , Reply# 21   3/14/2017 at 11:57 (2,600 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 926795 , Reply# 23   3/14/2017 at 12:40 (2,600 days old) by stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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Ironically Speed Queen extols the ability of their machines to handle power grid voltage iregularities with built in protection. The last repairman even said as much and made a point to plug the machine into the wall directly rather than use the surge protector available in the socket below. One theory is that the original board was early build and faulty...and was replaced with another faulty early run board...ahem, then another. The board protects, controls, and powers the pump...seemed to be what the SQ tech guy told me on the phone. |
Post# 926799 , Reply# 24   3/14/2017 at 12:54 (2,600 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 926800 , Reply# 25   3/14/2017 at 13:07 (2,600 days old) by stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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Yes transformer! That thought had occured to me as well and i had forgotten. Is that on the motor board though? If so i have repIaced it 3 times now lol. I was also told there is also an "upper board"..so even if the culprit is found would i want this machine whose innards may be functioning now, but have been exposed to excess/improper power since jump street? The repair guys are not electrical engineer types as a general rule it seems, and *for some reason* SQ keeps okaying board replacements without further inquiry. On the second replacement i even told the service manager to make sure they (SQ) wanted to throw another board in this unit without a deeper look see as to what may be causing the problem. I was surprised to find out they were fine with that one AND THE NEXT board as well. I suspected they know they have a bad design and/or quality control on these. |
Post# 926817 , Reply# 26   3/14/2017 at 13:49 (2,600 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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RE: pumps and circuit boards A co-worker had the pump go out on her F&P top loader, which in turn also knocked out the circuit board. Repairman said it is a common occurrence.
Another, non-washer related, the light bulb blew out in the Whirlpool Side/Side refrigerator here at work. It subsequently knocked out the circuit board for the ice-maker.
Something in the design is allowing a failed component to have an effect on the electronics of these machines. I do know that when I bought my Maytag pair, and then later my Kitchenaid dishwasher, the sales person said the best money I could spend is buy a surge protector. |
Post# 926847 , Reply# 28   3/14/2017 at 16:19 (2,600 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Iheartmaytag: RE: pumps and circuit boardsThat's true but several years ago F&P issued a service bulletin and retrofit fuse kit to protect the board. Replacement pumps include the fuse kit. |
Post# 926917 , Reply# 29   3/14/2017 at 22:12 (2,599 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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GE installed massive diodes on the circuit boards and quick-blow fuses just over the rated capacity on heating elements on their Twenty-Eight Hundred series dishwashers, adding extra protection for the motor running the detergent dispenser on the "D" version - the last one. I've read nothing in the ensuing 30+ years to suggest that modern electronics are less sensitive to heat, humidity, corrosive vapors, static discharge, dirt, grease.... In short, Speed Queen has clearly neglected to protect some vulnerable circuit against one of the above - I'm guessing the idiots ran the pump directly off a marginally adequate transistor instead of using a proper solid-state relay or, heaven's above, a mechanical relay. So - until they bite the bullet and accept their design failure, this machine is a very expensive piece of junk. Good luck - I'd make noise everywhere possible until they cave and refund your money. Use it to buy a mechanical Speed Queen. They're good. |
Post# 926928 , Reply# 30   3/14/2017 at 23:07 (2,599 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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Modern electronics as a generalization are more resistant to damage from heat, moisture and spikes etc. But of course there is cost cutting which leads to poor design which causes failures, likely far more often then fragility of the components.
I often run across electronics that survive FAR more then I ever thought they could. Our radio club used to have a 100w 144Mhz RF amplifier that was used on one of our repeaters. That amp would sometimes see 3 or more hours of continuous transmit time and it wasn't very efficient. Even with 3 fans on it there were about 5 times that it just quit working. The poor RF transistors would get so hot they would melt the solder and detach from the PC board! The fix was always to just solder the transistor tabs back to the board and it would work again. After the first time I switched to silver bearing solder, and it still did it although less frequently, that solder melts at almost 600 deg F. The transistors never failed. As for the failures of this particular machine, I don't know enough of the story to be able to even hazard a guess at the failure mode(s). I will surmise that anytime I hear of the same part failing 3 times in succession, I have to bet there was a problem that was missed during service. The SQ electronics are as good or better then anything else on the market today. But it is sure appearing that the SQ customer service and the technicians available to Robert have been an enormous letdown. Speed Queen really needs to step up their game in this regard. |
Post# 926963 , Reply# 31   3/15/2017 at 07:33 (2,599 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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It's true that we have enormously better electronic products/logic systems available today than before. Unfortunately, the people cutting corners haven't been upgraded in, well, basically ever. Big Clive did a 'tube about copies of a commonly used logic chip which didn't have diode protection - and were running inductive loads - just recently.
You're right about SQ dropping the ball here. It reminds me of Maytag's reaction to the first reports of the massive Neptune and Amanananatag problems.
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Post# 927450 , Reply# 32   3/17/2017 at 11:55 (2,597 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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And the hits just keep on coming... Weeell just got off the phone with the local appliance repair outfit that did the most recent work on our SQ FL washer... seems they installed the *wrong* pump. The machine has been working fine...I knew something was up! Yes the washer I hope to have loaded on a truck and waved goodbye to in the not too distant future will be getting it's third pump...to match the three replacement motor boards it has also received I guess. To clarify, the washer currently and atypically ;-] works fine, but the shop somehow realized the tech install the incorrect pump for my machine and need to R & R it to receive credit from SQ. {Sigh} No...you cannot make this stuff up. This post was last edited 03/17/2017 at 12:23 |
Post# 927469 , Reply# 33   3/17/2017 at 15:38 (2,597 days old) by lotsosudz (Sacramento, CA)   |   | |
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If you do not receive a timely response from Allied, check with your local broadcasting companies. A lot of TV stations, have their own consumer advocate. Try them. Most companies do not want bad publicity, and will do anything to avoid media coverage that is negative. We have a local station that has one, and he seems to get immediate results, no matter what the circumstances may be!
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Post# 927470 , Reply# 34   3/17/2017 at 15:41 (2,597 days old) by stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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And now comes the message that SQ will NOT replace my machine but rather continue attempting to repair it... until the warranty runs out in less than a year whereupon presumably they will simply stop taking my calls. This post was last edited 03/17/2017 at 18:56 |
Post# 927552 , Reply# 37   3/18/2017 at 01:28 (2,596 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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Very unfortunate, indeed. Everyone can make a lemon but they really should have replaced your machine. It is good to know that at least you have that MT dependable care as a backup. SQ is the the highest quality defacto, because all others have cut so many corners. Nothing to do with having the best design ever but due to having not changed it to cheapen. Even an old WCI could be said to have better quality than almost all on the market today.
Today you need someone who is not a washer tech but someone who can diagnose electrical problems like Shango066, RadioTvPhonoNut and Big Clive. P.S. If you want videos on vintage TVs and radios they(Shango066&RadioTvPhonoNut) are the people to watch. |
Post# 927740 , Reply# 38   3/19/2017 at 07:56 (2,595 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 927936 , Reply# 40   3/20/2017 at 13:35 (2,594 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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Electronic controls DO NOT BELONG on ranges, refrigerators or washing machines!!!Good old fashioned mechanical switches and timers give much less trouble, I WILL NEVER own a touch pad controlled anything! |
Post# 927941 , Reply# 41   3/20/2017 at 15:21 (2,594 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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i can not put the d in the title but its topload and front load but here are the kind of controls i would see if not electronic and for those that went a white on white control panel.
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Post# 928094 , Reply# 42   3/21/2017 at 17:10 (2,593 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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This just in...no warranty extension will be considered in my case. From my dealer: I have made our distributor and Speed Queen aware three times that your laundry room has filled with smoke until the washer was unplugged twice. They responded, "The current warranty is until 3/9/2018 Parts and Labor. 5 Years on the Motor, Bearings, and rust through and lifetime on outer tub and wash basket. Notes have been added. " Lol...i remember GM dicking me around like this over a defective batterey on our Saturn. They went bankrupt within a year or two as I recall. |
Post# 928100 , Reply# 43   3/21/2017 at 17:30 (2,593 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Write to Consumer Reports, local media, etc... No one should have to suffer through a major appliance needing this much repair every other week or so it seems.
If you paid for the thing via credit card see if the company can do something. Does the card offer extended warranty and or any other "customer service or dispute" benefits? Personally think the ball is in dealer's court now, they should step in and offer to take back the machine, issue a credit for something else, and then sort out Alliance/SQ later. If it means eating a loss, then so be it; maybe if they threatened to drop Alliance unless they did the right thing by them it would light a fire. |
Post# 928107 , Reply# 44   3/21/2017 at 17:42 (2,593 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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Well, so much for Alliance's superior warranty on their SQ washers. What you have been through is not my idea of customer care. It's more like, couldn't care less. I agree with Launderess, go public, contact your credit card company. BTW, did you ever try contacting the CEO in corporate, like another poster suggested? This couldn't hurt, and you may be pleasantly surprised that this will get you satisfaction. Good luck to you.
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Post# 928110 , Reply# 45   3/21/2017 at 18:08 (2,593 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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I just notified my dealer customer care rep that I would happily accept a store credit on the total purchase. Although the dryer has not had any issues, we want a matching pair...and SQ has taken their brand out of the running for us...for-evah. This post was last edited 03/21/2017 at 19:16 |
Post# 928118 , Reply# 46   3/21/2017 at 18:56 (2,593 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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I keep coming back to this post to see if your problem was ever resolved - and still nothing! Crazy!
I had a similar experience YEARS ago with DirecTV. I posted on the Satellite forums and someone responded to send an email to a certain person in power at DirecTV. I did, and suddenly, everything was fixed in 24 hrs. If giving SQ bad publicity is what it takes, then I say do what the others say. Go public. |
Post# 928199 , Reply# 47   3/22/2017 at 07:38 (2,592 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 928267 , Reply# 48   3/22/2017 at 13:29 (2,592 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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I for one wouldn't be talking to the dealer at all at this point. This should be taken in a reasonable, non-confrontational manner directly to the Alliance higher up's. The name of their product is being sullied by this authorized dealer that is there to properly represent their product. For whatever reason they seem unable to do so. Malcolm's point is valid and Speed Queen needs to know the scoop.
I wouldn't listen to the dealers story concerning their communications with the distributor or Alliance. Unless I saw it in writing I wouldn't trust their word to be accurate. They may just be trying to step away from this whole deal :( |
Post# 928272 , Reply# 50   3/22/2017 at 13:45 (2,592 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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Actually it was SQ who sent me to the dealer. I did not go to the dealer once until after the third major break down. That was only a week ago. The dealer was, as I have said, straight forward, tactful, and on it. When these machines were delivered far later than they initially expected, they, at my request, quickly refunded a substantial sum that equaled a lower price on the pair I had found in the mean time elsewhere. In further news the dealer now says they need an "RA" -return authorization- from SQ to do anything more. Meaning no "store credit" will be happening...just yet. My rep said to notify them immediately of any further breakdowns and she will promptly re-apply for an RA, which if accepted would open the doors to a full resolution of my sad situation. One thing that happened whilst SQ was looking through my documentation, they realized the last pump installed was for the older model FL machine. Works the same but got me to thinking if other parts LIKE THE HARD TO FIND BOARDS were also an incorrect part substituted for the correct one...much to my chagrin as this time they almost certainly would not be functional equivalents, and could therefore have been the source of my machine's repeated failures. Hard tellin' not knowin'...the view from the coffee shop where I sit.
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Post# 928274 , Reply# 51   3/22/2017 at 14:01 (2,592 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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"I just notified my dealer customer care rep that I would happily accept a store credit on the total purchase."
I have to agree with Phil in reply #48, this dealer can't be depended upon to have your best interests in this matter. And notifiying them that you will happily accept a store credit has likely sent them into roars of laughter. If you had requested this remedy soon after delivery, you may have had some success. At this point it is an issue for Alliance to resolve. Go right to the top and contact the CEO of Alliance. Then if he or she won't authorize replacement, go the the State of California Dept of Consumer Affairs like Paulo suggested. In 1991 I purchased a new 1991 Mercury Capri that had nothing but problems from day one. I was able to document that it had been in service dept for 31 days in the first 3 mo. and the problems had still not been resolved. This was pre computer for me. I sat down at my IBM typewriter and wrote a 4 page letter, single spaced, to the owner of the dealership, enumerating each and every visit to the service dept and the negative outcomes. I mailed it and 2 days later I received a call from this owner, and he arranged a meeting with himself, I and a Lincoln Mercury rep. They bought the car back under the California Lemon Law, and it cost me zero dollars, but endless aggravation up to that point. It is the squeeky wheel that gets the grease. But you need go to the top and deal with someone that can actually help you. And in your case at this point the selling dealer is not the party that can help you. Eddie |
Post# 928277 , Reply# 52   3/22/2017 at 14:34 (2,592 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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I am giving the parties involved every chance I can to do the right thing... I don't have an axe to grind here, I really wanted my SQ machines to be everything the "lucky" owners say. Regardless of what their product is or is not, it's SQ's almost steadfast refusal to replace my SQ lemon...or show any interest as to why my machine is such a POS...that grates the most. But to know that unquestionably takes a few go rounds. Each of these go rounds will cost them more future customers when I put this story out there more broadly. SQ looks increasingly like a poster-child for the disconnected-money-grubbing-corporate-greedsters that have laid waste to the heart and soul of this country. Don't fall for the 'Ruse from Ripon' is what I have learned in all this. Get proper modern engineering...not warmed over, also ran, low tech from yesteryear...waving an American flag while selling a made in the USA box full of Mexican electronics. Does Apple have their computers made south of the boarder? No they do not. As Steve Jobs famously told President Obama after being asked, "why can't Apple make more stuff here"...he answered simply that the skill to do so now lies across the Pacific. The manufacturing eco-system there is too many generations of evolution past ours...or Mexico's. I'm not happy about that and wanted to do something about it. I feel I was taken advantage of and should have just stuck to what I already know about cars. Don't buy American and expect a Toyota or Honda...it probably just ain't gonna work out the same way in the end. This post was last edited 03/22/2017 at 18:49 |
Post# 928395 , Reply# 54   3/23/2017 at 01:12 (2,591 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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Nope...
Apple computers are 100% made in China. Which is easily as bad or worse then anything Mexico does. Please note, I say this both as an electronics technician and an Apple fan. The problem you have experienced has zero to do with Mexican electronics. You have dealt with bad service and a bad service company. The same part doesn't fail in one machine 3 times unless there was a problem that was missed by the tech that serviced it. If the electronics themselves were so horrible, then every machine would have this much trouble, they don't. I'm not absolving the dealer of SQ of wrong doing, they have treated you poorly. But blaming the electronics country of origin is equally wrong. |
Post# 928398 , Reply# 55   3/23/2017 at 02:15 (2,591 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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First i should say my comments were off the cuff and generally ancillary to my situation. My point is, and I should clarify, for what SQ is perhaps willing to pay for their computers, or Apple for that matter, only China can produce a decent product...again, for that price. They have the infrastructure, cost structure, and experience to consistently get the results needed to keep a company like Apple coming back year after year for the parts they need. And of course they can and do produce lots of junk too....e.g spin-sploding TL Samsung's or their spontaneously combusting phones. Nevertheless I think LG and Samsung are overall ahead on this with their FL washers because what we have here when you get down to it is a computer that washes cloths. Not the other way around cause a motor board replaced is upwards of $1,000 and the machine only costs a few hundred more. It's the critical link, with it's fuzzy logic and other wiz bang capabilities that can be tapped for the performance consumers are demanding. We see these two companies scoring overall highest with the critics (Consumer Reports, Reviewed.com, CNET etc.) and the general public. I see the popularity in the used market where LG and Samsung command the highest prices for used FL machines...they hold their value much better, at least in my area. Much like Hondas and Toyotas do in the used car market. Resale value is a strong indicator of overall value in a product and not easily manipulated. Stuff i knew but failed to adequetly consider before i made the leap and threw down the cash for new SQ's. The story i bought fits better with the mechanical TL machines, not the FL machines imo. I too strongly suspect my machine has an undiagnosed fault and have said so earlier. But I think SQ knows it has quality control problems with it's electrical parts suppliers cause all they want to do is R and R part after part in my washer with literally no end in sight. Maybe for what they want to pay they need to look elswhere to achieve a better level of quality. This post was last edited 03/23/2017 at 04:19 |
Post# 928434 , Reply# 57   3/23/2017 at 10:03 (2,591 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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I'll just chime in and say that the origin of the electronics or components no longer matters. (I know, I know, I'd love for us to make everything again too, it just ain't happening, no matter what the Big Orange says)
Our products are made in Mexico. Our electronics are made in Mexico. Sure, we have our problems from time to time, but by and large, the products our MX plant puts out are excellent and dependable. Our Mexican managers and engineers are some of the nicest and smartest people I've dealt with in my career. It comes down to how you manage your factory, and who you hire and what company culture is instilled. I've seen and dealt with great products from China, Mexico etc, as well as absolute garbage. I've also dealt with absolute garbage from the US.....and it's disheartening. No matter how many times we try to source domestic. However, I'm proud to say, when we find a good US supplier, they hold their tolerances nice and tight, and consistent, more so than overseas could even try if their lives depended on it. |
Post# 928448 , Reply# 59   3/23/2017 at 11:17 (2,591 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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Yes Henrik, like you said...except I would add, if you get a lemon prepare to figh SQ tooth-and-nail for a replacement...cause that is how they roll. My machine does work at the moment, cause it has less than 10 loads on the latest board/pump, but I realized I haven't heard it go into high speed spin for SOME time. Hmm... lemon law here I come, thx mtn. |
Post# 928671 , Reply# 61   3/24/2017 at 14:54 (2,590 days old) by washman (o)   |   | |
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no henene4 we can't. |
Post# 928674 , Reply# 62   3/24/2017 at 15:12 (2,590 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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not to add ill-will.....but something to keep in the back of your mind.....
there could be something in your homes wiring causing odd issues...... my sister has a Historical home....and most of it is knob-tube wiring....I don't know what it is, but she has burnt through more mother boards on 2 electronic washers than I can count....she went back to an old school machine, and no issues since....there is something in that house, makes me think its haunted... note: these same 2 broken machines work fine at my house.....with the same boards that would not work at her house.... I was hoping Alliance would replace your units with new ones....if the new one works without issues, your good to go, but if it happens to a second set, I might think there is something in the house/wiring causing issues.... |
Post# 928675 , Reply# 63   3/24/2017 at 15:23 (2,590 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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www.lg.com/us/press-release/lg-el...
Personally, this annoys me. Another foreign transplant here, offering low wage jobs while all the profits go overseas. Yay...... |
Post# 928680 , Reply# 64   3/24/2017 at 16:43 (2,590 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Go right to the top and contact the CEO of Alliance.
Years ago when Maytag was still a real company (unlike now), my co-worker had a Maytag Neptune FL washer & dryer he bought new. It had been repaired once under warranty, then once out of pocket and when it failed again 3 months later, out of sheer frustration, he was at a loss what to do next (not wanting to put more $$$ into it) and was ready to kick it to the curb.
I suggested he contact the president of Maytag directly, but he was reluctant. I took it upon myself to find out who Maytags president was, then composed a letter, describing his history of growing up with Maytags and being a loyal Maytag customer, the problems with this machine (not long out of warranty) and the fact that his faith in Maytag had now almost completely vanished. I printed the letter, he signed it and mailed it.
About 10-12 days later a "Maytag repairman" called to schedule time to come repair the machine, all with no cost to him. It worked for a few more years, but I can't remember now why he replaced them. They've been using a 1980 A806 & DG808 (that I found for them) since and they've been very happy.
Obviously the point to my story is, take a chance and write to the CEO of Alliance, what have you got to loose? They may just buy them back or replace them (if you're willing).
Kevin
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Post# 928682 , Reply# 65   3/24/2017 at 16:56 (2,590 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 928684 , Reply# 66   3/24/2017 at 17:00 (2,590 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Post# 928686 , Reply# 67   3/24/2017 at 17:05 (2,590 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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Post# 928696 , Reply# 68   3/24/2017 at 18:44 (2,590 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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Thanks Kevin reply #64! All my life I've spoken for myself whenever I have purchased a product or service that turns out to be unsatisfactory. And I always go to the highest level I can from the start. And I totally agree with Malcolm reply#65, stick to the facts and leave the nastiness out of your letter or telephone conversation. But be clear on what your expectations were when you originally made the purchase and explain and document how those expectations weren't met. Speak for yourself! I was taught this at home, this is how my parents always handled any situation like this, and they were always successful and so have I always been successful using this practice. People always want to "lawyer up" when they feel they've been wronged. Nine times out of ten any rational communication with the person that is most likely to have the power to fix your problem works. If it doesn't then you can pursue legal avenues for a resolution. Why make things more difficult than they already are? Keep you eye on the ball. BTW, Olav "Rapunzel" l gave name and phone number of the CEO for Alliance in an earlier post, it couldn't hurt to make a positive contact with this person.
One more pointer that has served me well in these kinds of situations. I learned this at a supervisors training seminar in 89', and I've used it every since. Write your letter of complaint or request using the KKK formula. In this case the letters stand for kiss, kick, kiss. Start out with something positive, and sometimes this is difficult, then state clearly what your expectation is and end with something positive , for instance ,"I'm thanking you in advance for your attention to my concern". I always used this approach whenever I needed to have a conference with a worker that was having problems. This really works very well most of the time. Everybody wants to be treated with respect. Good Luck! Eddie |
Post# 928698 , Reply# 69   3/24/2017 at 18:59 (2,590 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )   |   | |
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Not to hijack the thread, but 600 jobs is 600 jobs. Contrary to popular belief, some, (arguably the majority,) people are idiots and are only capable of a $10/ hr job. I think it's good news. If you want to discuss this further please start a new thread. |
Post# 928800 , Reply# 70   3/25/2017 at 04:14 (2,589 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Johnb300m, I used to work for LG (Lucky Goldstar) in Huntsville, AL 25 years ago (it was a Goldstar TV plant back then). They didn't pay much then either, but they had good insurance benefits that started on day 1 of employment. They had the Asian work mentality...work work work, 12 hours a day 5 and 6 days a week. The building is still in Huntsville and is the head office for customer service and operations support.
We now return to our regularly scheduled program already in progress.... CLICK HERE TO GO TO askolover's LINK |
Post# 933657 , Reply# 72   4/21/2017 at 07:16 (2,562 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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I almost hate to reopen this thread, But hears my take on what happened.
1 The service company was terrible.
2 This washer is NOT a Lemon and SQ should NOT replace it.
3 From my count this washer only broke down once do to a component failure. The first failure was likley a faulty main motor-relay board. I checked with our parts distributor [ the only authorized parts source for an area of over 6 million people ] and they have only supplied 3 of these motor boards in the last year.
4 The second difficulty Robert had could have easily been fixed by the user, page 25 in the owners instructions tells how to remove items stuck in the drain pump or trap. The only tool required is a 5/16" nut driver to remove the lower front panel. The small sock that got stuck in the pump CAN NOT damage either the pump or motor board. The only thing that will happen is a failure for the washer to drain and maybe a slight hot smell of the pump trying to run [ this washer DID NOT fill the laundry room with smoke, nothing burned ]
Note; the drain pump is driven by a relay on the board so a stuck pump CAN NOT damage the board.
5 the third problem was apparently something in the pump that dissapeared when they tried replacing it, remember they tried replacing the board again and it did not fix the problem.
Note, SQ is selling their machines through self-servicing dealers, they DO NOT approve of on line sales.
If Robert had bought this washer from a local dealer and they had given this type of lousy service he would have a claim against the local dealer.
John L. |
Post# 933922 , Reply# 74   4/22/2017 at 16:22 (2,561 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)   |   | |
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Alliance/Speed Queen makes the product. They depend on the retailers/independent servicers to keep things running.
We are a platinum speed queen dealer. We get called with problems, we diagnose the issue and Alliance sends us the part. The tech goes to the customer and installs the part. If that doesn't fix the original complaint, they send us another part. We have never had an issue of a lemon machine. We've replaced nearly everything in one machine because it was damaged in shipping, but we've never had a machine that Alliance just flat out refused to service. That being said, a retailer/servicer with a good working relationship with Alliance is going to get further with them than ... people that are less than ideal to work with. As an appliance/furniture store, we have a warranty/service department with two people that are paid to only work with our distributors/manufactures and maintain those relationships. We have a service writer as well as 5 techs. They all go through the training programs the manufactures/distributors offer so that when a customer calls with a complaint, they can pull up the schematics and know what they are looking at and what they are dealing with. More often than not, we have the part in hand the first time we walk in the door because of this which has stream-lined our service process. That being said, in the last three years, there have been less than 10 service calls on Speed Queen. We service 57 counties between our two locations. What I am saying is if one retailer/service place is not giving you the service you think you should be getting, call another one. Keep calling them until you get the service you expect. You shouldn't have to do that, but that is the only way you are going to get decent service is to find somewhere with decent people out in the field. Oh, and Apple makes the Mac Pro in the USA. |
Post# 933938 , Reply# 75   4/22/2017 at 17:54 (2,561 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.))   |   | |
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Post# 934027 , Reply# 79   4/23/2017 at 10:18 (2,560 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.))   |   | |
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It does not make any sense how a sock got caught in the pump. I was looking at my machine last night and I can't figure out how it got in there. Robert has had the misfortune of buying a machine that had a defect and that can happen with any MFR. What made matters much worse is the HORRIBLE service and botched repairs(IIRC wrong parts used. I misunderstood you when I thought that you were rubbing Roberts nose in anything. For that and for my harsh post I apologize.
WK78 |
Post# 934062 , Reply# 80   4/23/2017 at 14:22 (2,560 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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I have never seen any washer where can not get into the outer tub, especially FL washers, we see it every week with any brand and model washer you can name, there is nothing wrong with Roberts washer.
We worked on 24 SQ FL washers that were used at a youth training facility, the young people did their own laundry and I know that we pulled ID cards out of everyone of those washers outer tubs. This post was last edited 04/23/2017 at 16:08 |
Post# 934065 , Reply# 81   4/23/2017 at 14:33 (2,560 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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I agree with Bruce's basic point throughout...that whatever SQ machines are, they are not different in KIND to other machines, but simply different versions. Or said another way, pick your poison. What works for one may not for another. Unfortunately, given my washer's repeated and essentially identical break downs, I can no longer have confidence regarding this machine. E.g., recently I paused before leaving the house BECAUSE the washer was still operating...didn't feel confident something might not happen again and i might return wondering what all those fire trucks are doing on my block. And if that's not bad enough, I now KNOW the company feels no compunction to act beyond what they legally are required. Yes I could politely lobby the CEO, but that wouldn't change the fact I paid a premium to a company wherein ONE HAS TO POLITELY LOBBY THE CEO for a shot at reasonable consideration. It's the expectation, the rule is sadly otherwise. That people who love SQ implore you to, "buy from a tip-top dealer, or else"...MAKES MY POINT. It is working now, and the longer it does so the more I feel the issue was incorrect and/or faulty early run parts or firmware. If it remains working, for say another DECADE before needing ANYTHING, I may finally be where "regret" will not be how I characterize my total SQ ownership experience. It is a solid machine, when it works, no doubt, and I like that...but every pause of the wash drum sets my mind on edge until I hear it in motion again...not what one wishes for after paying nearly 2x the going rate in hopes of experiencing the opposite ownership sensation. This post was last edited 04/23/2017 at 15:20 |
Post# 934213 , Reply# 84   4/24/2017 at 08:41 (2,559 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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Post# 934254 , Reply# 86   4/24/2017 at 13:23 (2,559 days old) by brucelucenta ()   |   | |
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Sounds like I'm not the only one with the same opinion. |