Thread Number: 71276  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Miele Novotronic W1918
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Post# 943387   6/13/2017 at 22:33 by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Finally, one showed up on CL!   The pair was listed Monday afternoon, I replied within a couple of hours and picked it up last night.  The seller had the pair (vented dryer) but I only really wanted the washer so left the dryer behind.   First pic is washer home and running, the rest are the seller's pics.

 

Only have cleaned it up a little so it's not ready for close-ups and am running a clean cycle - Cottons 155F, Water-Plus.   I pulled the filter and cleaned it and the pump housing, though it wasn't too terrible.  I'm using a 1/3 cup of Lemi-Shine for this run, will run a little bleach next cycle.  So far so good, spins up to 1600 smoothly and quietly.

 

I've used Jeff's but have very little Mile experience so I'm anxious to put it through it's paces.

 

 



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Post# 943394 , Reply# 1   6/13/2017 at 23:19 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Congratulations and enjoy it in good health!

(I know you don't need another dryer, but if it's still available, I'd encourage you to get it and try it. Miele dryers are very gentle with delicate garments, particularly silk and wool. Than again, if you want to shrink cotton yardage to make a quilt, try some other brand of dryer, LOL.)

Have fun!
   -- Paulo.


Post# 943396 , Reply# 2   6/14/2017 at 00:16 by Revvinkevin (Between Mickey Mouse & the Queen Mary (So. Cal.)        

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Congrats Greg! It looks very similar to the W1926 I recently purchased. WOW, 1600 rpm! Mine only runs to 1200. Is that one 6 kg or 7 kg capacity?

It may be too late by now but the owners manual specifically says DO NOT USE liquid chlorine bleach as it will damage the machine.

I'm sure you will really enjoy it as I really like mine!

Kevin


Post# 943411 , Reply# 3   6/14/2017 at 07:41 by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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I believe it's 6 kg.  I've only run the citric acid cycle so far, no bleach.   Have we ever gotten a solid answer on the bleach debate?  I can see not using it in a very long, 190F wash, but would a quick rinse with bleach cause the machine to melt down?  


Post# 943412 , Reply# 4   6/14/2017 at 07:57 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

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Congratulations Greg!

The W1918 is a 5 kg machine. It's similar to the W900 European series. The 6 kg models are deeper than the width. The 1600 rpm machines from that time were only available in 5 kg capacity. The 6 kg machines (IIRC the 1926) were based on the Little Giant series.

IMHO a quick rinse with just a little bleach can't do much harm. Also take out the detergent dispenser and see if the housing of it is clean. Mold can accumulate there, even when you leave the dispenser open between loads. Besides that it's good to clean the gasket regularly, there is a hole in it, but it might not always get empty.


Post# 943413 , Reply# 5   6/14/2017 at 08:08 by RevvinKevin (Between Mickey Mouse & the Queen Mary (So. Cal.)        
I can't see using it in a very long, 190F wash

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Yes true, especially with bleach as the main wash is approx. 45 mins.  As you noticed when running the citric acid cycle, the total cycle time is 1:40, which appears to be the norm for all the cotton cycles (I've not tried any others yet).  FYI pre-wash adds 10 mins to the cycle.

 

The "rapid wash" button knocks an hour off the (cottons) cycle time by shortening the main wash and eliminating 2 of the 4 rinses.  However it does fill 1/4 up the door glass for those rinses.

 

TIP: If you want/need to change or restart a cycle after you've started it, turn the cycle knob to the top start/finish position and wait for the cycle progress lights to cycle through and the "end" light comes on.   Otherwise to temporarily stop / pause a cycle, press the on/off button.  Also, at least on mine, once the washer has filled with water (even the lower default level) the door will not open during the cycle by pressing the release button.    Open the pump access door and pull down on the round tab to release the door.


Kevin


Post# 943414 , Reply# 6   6/14/2017 at 08:13 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

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BTW, the manual is still available on the Miele USA website.

www.mieleusa.com/forms2/u...

It's a PDF file.


Post# 943415 , Reply# 7   6/14/2017 at 08:17 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Congratulations, Greg!

 

I love my Mieles.

 

Be very careful with chlorine bleach. It is not used much in Europe and I don't think the seals and other parts are made to withstand it.


Post# 943416 , Reply# 8   6/14/2017 at 08:31 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

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I guess the question is if there is a need to give it a rinse with chlorine bleach. You could have done the citric acid treatment on 190F. That would take care of everything in there if there is anything left.

Post# 943431 , Reply# 9   6/14/2017 at 11:34 by henene4 (Germany)        
Bleach

My grandma used bleach heavily in our W961, even on boilwash cycles. Never an issue.

What was the idea again that bleach is supposed to do in terms of harm?


Post# 943446 , Reply# 10   6/14/2017 at 14:21 by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Thanks for the tips, guys.  Haven't had a chance to play any since last night so will do a first load tonight with actual clothes.  After the citric acid cycle, the machine smells fresh and clean so I probably am going to be good to go without worrying about the bleach.   As Louis said, 190F should kill off any remaining cooties but the washer is very clean overall.  There was some scuzzy residue in the dispenser housing, but the brushing and LA's Totally Awesome cleaner seems to have taken care of that.

 

The seller said it was in the house when they bought it and now that they have their first child (18 mos.) they felt they needed more capacity so they bought a Bosch Axxis set (probably on CL).  

 

Thanks for the link to the manual, Kevin sent me a PDF of it this morning too.  :-)

 


Post# 943449 , Reply# 11   6/14/2017 at 14:47 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hey Greg, I've used bleach occaisionally at temps up to 60c and never had a problem. If you want to clean it use some powder dishwasher detergent and a long hot wash. If it's to whiten clothes then just try a 60c cycle with a good detergent and you might be amazed.

Cheers

Nathan


Post# 943468 , Reply# 12   6/14/2017 at 17:37 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Chlorine bleach seems to have been quite popular in European laundry regimes - there was even a compartment for it on continental machines. But not on British machines.

If I remember correctly, sodium hypochlorite bleach (chlorine bleach) decomposes to form salty water. This can lead to rusty appearing even on stainless steel.

Chlorine bleach attacks aluminium. Consider how pots and pans discolour in a dishwasher - they go dark grey and rough to the touch. A similar aluminium alloy is used to make the drum spider assembly in frontloaders, and conceivably could be similarly attacked by the bleach.

Chlorine bleach could degrade rubber gaskets and hoses (tub-to-sump hose). Possibly also the bearing seal.

My Gran had a double sink in her kitchen (probably Hygena brand). Both sinks had plugholes with plastic grids as original equipment. Bleach was regularly used to disinfect the plugholes. The plastic grids fell apart in both sinks, and had to be replaced by standard metal grids.

Chlorine bleach is not seen as 'environmentally friendly' - it is a superb wiper-outer of germs, works in cold water, and is supposed to decompose to salty water, but there was speculation that by-products could be formed in the eco-system, called furans and dioxins.

Manufacturers stopped producing the bright yellow/orange paper hoover bags because of the chlorine concerns. That is why modern standard paper bags are the brown unbleached type.



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Post# 943474 , Reply# 13   6/14/2017 at 18:07 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

In the late 80's I had a version of a UK Philips FL that had a bleach dispenser.

I'm not sure it was supposed to be sold in UK, maybe the design was meant for Italy and the warmer countries in Europe. However, this model was made in Argentina (with important parts like timer etc imported from UK and Europe) and sold in Brazil.

The thing is, it doesn't matter if we or our relatives used to use chlorine bleach with those older machines. What matters is that the manufacturers for the "current" models (last 25 years or so) have been warning us *not* to use that type of bleach among others. Maybe if you just rinse the machine with bleach and cold water, maybe a 10 minute pre-wash, maybe a short wash with warm water, maybe something else are just maybes. By which I mean, sure, what the heck, go ahead if you don't care what happens.

But if it were me and my brand new machine (or even if I had such good luck and found one for cheap), I'd want it to last longer. Chlorine bleach is not going to make the entire planet implode like some think, but unlike other people think, it's not innocuous either -- as you can see, one can safely wash some kinds of stainless steel in dishwasher detergent that has a heavy dose of chlorine bleach, but both the dishwasher *and* that kind of stainless steel were chosen for resisting chlorine bleach -- there are some stainless steel that corrodes very easily in contact with bleach and/or salt for example. Also, numerous very useful, durable kinds of synthetic rubber used in hoses and seals get attacked and degrade rapidly when exposed to chlorine bleach. Chlorine is so useful *precisely* because it reacts with almost everything and it doesn't take long to do it either. Not a shy element, let's say...   ;-)

My gut feeling is that they're using some new synthetic rubbers that will withstand brief exposure to lukewarm very diluted bleach, but not anything else. Say you think your gonna clean the washer, put a cup of bleach in the dispenser (which runs into the sump) and then change your mind and forget the thing there for a couple or hours, or, even more probable, you do run a cold/warm rinse and empty the machine, but do not then run another rinse cycle or two: now you have what started as a "diluted" bleach get more concentrated as the water evaporates, then the seal or the tub gets corroded at that point near the sump.

So, yes, if you see your granny, mom, or some other people who knows what the heck they are doing (Greg or Louis, for example), ask what they are doing and the details. Otherwise you may do things slightly different in your home, then, *if* you have problems, others here will poke fun saying "well, the user guide told you not to do it" and it can be embarrassing.

Have fun!
   -- Paulo.


Post# 943478 , Reply# 14   6/14/2017 at 18:32 by henene4 (Germany)        

I don't see how NaCl would attack SS much.
I mean, we cook pasta in SS cockware, with way higher concentrations while even hotter then this Miele could reach, I don't see rust or other damage in our (verry cheap) cookware.

Further, any rubber part that has longer exposure to any chemical in these machines is thick. Feel the doorgasket. You think that's gonna get eaten away?

Oh, and there ist no Al in these wash units. None.
Spider is SS AFAIK just as the wash basket and the tub.

Further, think about the concentrations we are talking. 1 cup (250ml) in 2.5gal or more (~10l). That is 1:40 dilution.
And then 4 rinses after that.



Sure, I wouldn't use it in every cycle I run, but once again, we used LCB in large quantitys, even at 190F, in our W961, and never had corrosion or seal issues.


Post# 943482 , Reply# 15   6/14/2017 at 18:43 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Henrik:

First off, all I am saying is "use it at your own risk, if you see someone else using it successfully, ask for *full* details, do not assume anything".

Do not assume, for example, that Miele uses the *same* materials for seals in their dishwasher as they use in their washer.

Do not assume, for example, that Stainless Steel is *all* the same. To begin with, the most common Stainless Steel used in a kitchen is 18/8 (non-magnetic) and 10/8 (magnetic) if I remember right. Those are *significantly* more resistant to salt and bleach than many other types.

I know for sure that some of my friends who are/were Marines, Sailors, Seals etc were told in no uncertain terms to never immerse and/or wash/rinse some of the Stainless Steel parts they have in ships, submarines etc in the ocean water ever. Thing is, they have a limited amount of fresh water in the ship, and a lot of ordinary cleaning is done with salt water. Not all Stainless Steel, but at least the parts they were told about would corrode and be useless with any exposure. Others can take some exposure but not long. Some SS can just be immersed in ocean water for an extended time, no problem.

It doesn't cost much to be aware of the situation and take appropriate care.

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.


Post# 943483 , Reply# 16   6/14/2017 at 19:07 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Salt (chloride) attacking stainless steel

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Post# 943561 , Reply# 17   6/15/2017 at 08:53 by swestoyz (Waterloo, Iowa)        
Congrats on your Miele!

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Oh wow, Greg! What a find!

Post# 943598 , Reply# 18   6/15/2017 at 13:11 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

This really has nothing to do with NaCl  and water which is what a solution of NaClO or sodium hypochlorite decomposes into after a few hours, but it is not just salt water while it is actively bleaching. Because sodium hypochlorite remains active for some time is the reason why the bleach had to go into the first rinse when doing laundry in a wringer washer.  That was then drained and replaced with fresh water when colors started to be washed.  Heating bleach in water in stainless steel can pull the nickel out of stainless steel, especially the sheathing of heating elements where the temperature would be highest and the reaction most intense. I believe one of the tests of stainless steel cookware conducted by one of the testing magazines was to see how easily the stainless steel could be pitted and they did it by heating bleach and water in the pan. 240 volt Miele machines that heat water do not have bleach dispensers and the manual said not to use bleach, IIRC. 

 

As far as heating salt in water, stainless steel cookware manufacturers advise adding the salt after the water is boiling or stirring it in to help it dissolve to avoid having it pit the stainless steel if the grains sit on the bottom during heating.


Post# 943646 , Reply# 19   6/15/2017 at 20:50 by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
You Go Greg!

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It's like having Albert Einstein and Mary Margaret MacMertz do your laundry. Or those poor servants in Gosford Park.

 

Be prepared, unfortunately, for dissatisfaction with the performance of every other washer out there.

 

IMHO nothing does the job better than a Miele (but, being the perpetual spoiled child, I wouldn't mind a bigger tub, the 1800 spin speeds I'm beginning to see out in the market, a few more short cycles and a bleach dispenser that worked the way the Bauknecht's do where the bleach gets dispensed in the first warm rinse). We were taught in culinary school sanitation classes that chlorine bleach solutions do their work better in lukewarm water, not hot water because most of the chlorine volatilizes. Whenever I use bleach in any machine I have, I usually add it to a separate warm rinse.


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Post# 943648 , Reply# 20   6/15/2017 at 21:04 by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )        

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I second what @bajaespuma said. Once you go Miele, you never go back, lol. I like to bleach my white, kitchen microfibres, but also like long, hot washes at 75c for hygiene and whitening. I wash the microfibres first on a 30c quick wash with a tiny bit of detergent and a half cap of Clorox bleach crystals. I then add my white tea towels to the load and start a 75c cottons hygiene cycle with an enzyme and percarbonate bleach- result is bright whites and no bleach damage or yellowing. This is the only load I need to add chorine bleach to, as my white microfibres tend to hold coffee/tea stains. Everything else is sparkling white.

Post# 943711 , Reply# 21   6/16/2017 at 06:37 by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

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BTW, I use old-fashioned Ammonia in my Miele all the time. Ammonia is a solvent for a lot of the natural detritus leached from human skin that cause whites to yellow, even after they're bleached, over time.

Nothing in the Miele manuals says anything about use of Ammonia so I cross my fingers and pour.


Post# 943726 , Reply# 22   6/16/2017 at 08:15 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

I assume that when you cross your fingers and pour, you have removed your formal gloves.


Post# 943736 , Reply# 23   6/16/2017 at 09:14 by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )        

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I use ammonia in mine too. No issues so far and use it in about half of all loads.




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