Thread Number: 71991  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Has there been any solution to spider-arm corrosion?
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Post# 952226   8/8/2017 at 18:30 by saz1 (LA)        

Brand new Daewoo front load washer, 3 years in and the spider arm needs to be replaced. A little research reveals that it's been a common problem for a while now. Has anyone come up with a solution?

So many speculations as to what causes it...galvanic corrosion, water PH, detergent, keeping the door closed...any consensus in that regard?

Im getting ready to put in a new spider arm and trying to figure out how I can treat it so that I could get at least 10 years out of it. I am thinking of first etching it with phosphoric acid, then anodizing it, and finally spraying it with a 2 part epoxy primer. What do you guys think? ...or has there been a proven method that works?






Post# 952273 , Reply# 1   8/9/2017 at 05:06 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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3 years is criminal. Quality is awful these days.

As far as I know, there was only one machine which had coated spiders, the early 1970s UK Hotpoint 1600.

Thread Number: 70689


Post# 952274 , Reply# 2   8/9/2017 at 05:14 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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I was going to suggest the epoxy myself.


Post# 952280 , Reply# 3   8/9/2017 at 06:04 by saz1 (LA)        

@ Rolls_rapide...
I just don't get how they've been able to get away with it for this long. Can't believe they haven't been sued black and blue!


Post# 952285 , Reply# 4   8/9/2017 at 07:02 by henene4 (Germany)        
Sued

Over what? The machine is long out of its warranty. What would you sue them over? "My cheap washer is broken after being in use for 3 times its warranty length!"

Cheaper machines do use cheaper materials, and more so, thinner materials.
Any even the least reactive metalic material will corrode away over time in such an enviroment.
And other non reactive materials in the needed thicknesses are more expensive and more expensive to produce (aluminium can be injection molded, stainless steel for example can't).


Post# 952318 , Reply# 5   8/9/2017 at 11:39 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Broken Spiders On FL washers

combo52's profile picture

If you have a spider failure in the the first 15-25 years of use it is the users fault, You are using TOO LITTLE detergent, TOO COLD wash water, AND you are not using LCB often enough..............

 

In addition the door should be left ajar, and the dispenser drawer should be left at least 1/2 way open between uses.

 

If a FLW ever develops an odor you are using it improperly and you have a greater risk of serious failures.

 

This advice is based on 40 years of working with over 60,000 customers on their home appliances.

 

John L.


Post# 952325 , Reply# 6   8/9/2017 at 12:23 by washerdude (Canada )        

I've owned a front loader for 3 years now and I'm happy to say, the bearings and spider are just fine! (WFW72HEDW)

Here's what I do, at the start of every month, I use a couple of Lysol wipes and wipe the door seals inside and out. Followed by a cleaning of the dispenser drawer in just plain hot water straight from the tap, and I also use a Lysol wipe to clean the interior of the dispenser housing. After that I dry everything down, and run a "Clean Washer" cycle with bleach followed by a drain and spin cycle at max speed to help dry both the tubs out. Once the cycle ends I dry everything out and leave the dispenser and door open a little.

As combo stated, leave the door ajar, as well as the dispenser drawer open. I've NEVER in the past 3 years of owning this machine, wiped the seals out after every load, or wiped out the dispenser cups after a load either.

No mold, No smells, Happy spider.


Post# 952341 , Reply# 7   8/9/2017 at 14:31 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
this has always been interesting over the years

mark_wpduet's profile picture
Some spiders fail soon, some don't. Mine is going on 13 yrs old. All I can say is, I've always used warm/hot (very occasionally cold) - powdered detergent, a little fab softener, chlorine bleach in white loads.....left door cracked and dispenser door pulled out when not in use. Most of the time I don't do HUGE loads, but there have been many times that I've filled it to capacity (while not overloading)

About every 3 months I get rubber gloves, coffeemaker hot water and a rag and clean the inside of the boot..but there has never been any mold or smell even when not cleaned because it's allowed to dry out really well between washes.

Years ago, when I first started hearing about this and learning that almost ALL FL washers have aluminum spiders (including mine) I've been waiting for mine to fall apart. But over time, since that has NOT happened - I do wonder if it's the way people do laundry and store their machine.
I don't know, I guess water quality could factor in too. I have hard water where I live.


Post# 952357 , Reply# 8   8/9/2017 at 16:14 by saz1 (LA)        

Appreciate your input guys!
So i understand we're exactly where we were 10 years ago... No one knows for certain why they fail, just theories.

Anyone ever tried coating the spider, or treating it? I've seen a couple of posts but they never reported back.


Post# 952402 , Reply# 9   8/9/2017 at 21:07 by washerdude (Canada )        
Out of curiosity

Whats the model number for your washer? Daewoo seems to be made by either LG or Samsung in America.

Post# 952500 , Reply# 10   8/10/2017 at 10:57 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Broken Spiders On FL Washers

combo52's profile picture
This issue is NOT a matter of theory, we have extensive experience with this issue and we have seen hundreds of machines and know how they have been used, we have often taken FL washers apart that are more tan a decade old and they have about zero corrosion on the spider.

Keep in mind that every manufacturer tests their machines to simulate more than a decade of use and the spiders NEVER fail when machines are used in a proper intelligent way.

Also keep in mind that machines that get smelly and develop slimy build-ups are not getting clothing clean, no manufacturer would test a washer without using proper washing procedures, doing so would be like testing cars with the wrong fuel, oil antifreeze no air in the tires etc.

PS painting a coating on the spiders may make thing worse, such coatings always develop small cracks etc and will actually keep the metal wet and may make corrosion issues worse. Back when aluminum pumps were still used in washers several manufactures tried coating the bare metal and the pumps still failed from corrosion as the coating usually started to fail pretty quickly.

John L.


Post# 952595 , Reply# 11   8/11/2017 at 12:37 by saz1 (LA)        
This issue is NOT a matter of theory

Thanks for your input John L.
Well, mine failed despite doing everything right. It never smelled. Always used powder detergent, never used beach and always kept the door open.


Post# 952600 , Reply# 12   8/11/2017 at 13:39 by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
best solution i can think of

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the best solution i can think of is have it check by a appliance repair service second have you considered buying a vintage washer that you can use on backup because sadly most tech these days will push you to buy a new machine but i would try option 1 and maybe buy a used washer off craiglist that you can store and hook up as a backup if main washer needs repair here a link incase you went to consider the option of a backup machine but like i said the other washer you would buy off craiglist would be a backup until your main washer is fix than when not needed you can store it in your garage and will have it in case your main washer needs a repair again.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO pierreandreply4's LINK on Los Angeles Craigslist


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Post# 952602 , Reply# 13   8/11/2017 at 13:45 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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John said that using chlorine bleach on a regular basis will contribute to maintaining the integrity of the spider, not reduce it.

My sister was given a Samsung frontloader, 5 years old, by friends who destroyed it by 1) too much cold-water washing, 2) never using the machine's cleaning cycle (which heats to 130F), SEVERE overdosing of liquid fabric softener, and presumably never chlorine bleach. The spider cracked during spin, the drum tore a gash in the front of the tub. I repaired it for $256 in parts. Upon disassembly I found everything to be coated in waxy residue with a STRONG odor of softener and the spider disintegrating into gravel.

A friend has a 1999 Neptune (2nd generation model MAH4000). The drum bearings were going bad at 10+ years and he planned to have me repair it at some point ... then the boot got torn which ensued a leak so the repair got accelerated. I found the spider to be essentially pristine. He *never* used softener and rarely washed in cold water. I don't know his detergent habits in historical detail but it's overdosed if anything ... the machine was being used by ranch hands at the house on the family's farmland.


Post# 952606 , Reply# 14   8/11/2017 at 14:30 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

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IMHO using chlorine bleach or not is not the key issue here. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many vintage washing machines in Europe. Europeans don't use bleach in their frontloaders. The most important thing to me seems that you wash in a decent way with enough detergent on a high enough temperatures (our boil washes may compensate for not using chlorine bleach).

Post# 952607 , Reply# 15   8/11/2017 at 14:43 by saz1 (LA)        
bleach

I hear you. So i am understanding that the reason it failed in just 3 years is because i did not occasionally use bleach. Wow!

Post# 952608 , Reply# 16   8/11/2017 at 14:49 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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Right Louis, of course ... bleach (supposedly) helps in lieu of cold washes (or rather, lack of hot washes) and other factors.


Post# 952636 , Reply# 17   8/11/2017 at 22:27 by Kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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As long as no biofilm builds up on the spider and the door is left open to keep moisture down the spider should outlast the rest of the machine.

Hot washes, bleach, and using different detergents all go a long way towards keeping the machine clean inside.

With proper usage the machine will be fine and not develop any off odors too. This is why many people have success with front loaders but others have issues, usage.


Post# 952848 , Reply# 18   8/14/2017 at 07:12 by saz1 (LA)        

Im curious...how dos using too little detergent effect the spider arm?

Post# 952851 , Reply# 19   8/14/2017 at 07:50 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Detergents

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Some UK and European powders DO contain a bleach. They are of the standard 'universal' type of powder. Contains an oxygen-based bleach, which has a sterilising effect. This is the type of detergent that was used in all vintage machines in days of old.

The ones to be wary of are the 'colour', 'liquid' and 'liquitab'. They do not contain bleach whatsoever.

Neither do some of the latest products: Persil Powergems lentils, and Daz 'White & Colours' powder - also sold as 'Daz 65 Years'.

Detergents without any bleach allow biofilms to form (think of plaque on your teeth). The plaque biofilm allows the bacteria to secrete acids which erode the teeth. The same thing happens to the aluminium alloy drum spider. Cool washes with ineffective liquid detergents allow the biofilms to exist and proliferate.

Powders have a slightly abrasive action too - a bit like toothpaste, which helps to cut through the biofilm.

Even Miele, which has the 'Twindos' liquid dispenser (one of which is a LIQUID oxygen bleach!), informs the user to conduct regular maintenance washes with a POWDER detergent to keep the machine clean.


Post# 952852 , Reply# 20   8/14/2017 at 07:55 by MrAlex (London, UK)        

I thought the Miele twin-dos was Hydrogen Peroxide If I'm not mistaken! :)

Post# 952853 , Reply# 21   8/14/2017 at 08:15 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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It is, but Miele still recommends powder in the maintenance wash!

Another member here also commented upon that fact.


Post# 952869 , Reply# 22   8/14/2017 at 11:48 by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
too little detergent

kb0nes's profile picture
Use of insufficient (or poor quality) detergent tends to allow the accumulation of biofilm on the interior surfaces of the machine. The biofilm remains moist accelerating the corrosion of the aluminum. If the aluminum were clean and dry it wouldn't corrode. Seems as though every failed spider seen is caked with grunge.

Hot washes, adequate detergent, light use of fabric softeners and leaving the door open will insure the washer stays clean and dry and will extend the life of the spider. Using different detergents on a frequent basis seems to help with keeping the machine clean also as does using powdered detergents.


Post# 953105 , Reply# 23   8/16/2017 at 15:17 by saz1 (LA)        
Makes sense...

Thanks for all your inputs guys! I realize now that it failed prematurely due to not using bleach and running enough wash cycles. I actually though bleach would be harmful to alloy. That's why some aluminum cookware say not to use bleach with their product. Never though that there is a biological process that goes on, not just chemical.

But then! How is one supposed to know all this?! It's not in the instruction manual. My washer's instruction manual actually says nothing about a wash cycle or anything about keeping it clean.
The only way someone can know is the hard way, when it falls apart...or by luck. I did some serious research before buying this machine and i never came across this sea of information that was just sitting here like it's common knowledge. And honestly, any washer that comes with any instruction or function to run cleaning cycles is just to shut people up about the mold smell. They say nothing about any structural issues that could arise from not keeping the washer clean. The average person will be thinking "It's a washer. It's cleaning itself every time i do the laundry".
It's planned obsolescence if you ask me. They don't want the washer lasting forever...they'd be out of business (or not on tycoon status) if they made them like that. Tell me why the spider is not made of stainless steel just like the drum? Really nasty on their part.

I've been looking into this and i think i will go with powder coating. It wont be so porous after the coating so water/detergent wont just get into the tiny pockets and just eat away at it - a backup plan in case i don't stay on top of things with the maintenance in the future. Love to open it up a few years from now and report back.


Post# 953109 , Reply# 24   8/16/2017 at 15:34 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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A friend fosters rescue dogs. Has 23 to 24 in the "pack" ... some are residents, some fosters. That doesn't include resident cats. She washes a LOT of critter bedding, uses a lot of chlorine bleach. She has a 2003 (per the serial number) Kenmore HE3 frontloader. The only repair for the duration (as far as I'm aware) is pump replacement several years ago, done by me. There also was no mold when I checked the tub boot and pump/sump trap.


Post# 957487 , Reply# 25   9/14/2017 at 07:30 by saz1 (LA)        
:(

Look at all the hiding places! You guys still think i don't need to treat it?



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Post# 957488 , Reply# 26   9/14/2017 at 07:45 by iej (Ireland)        

A good boil wash full of towels and peroxide laden detergent gets done in my Miele W1 once a week. No way any bugs or fabric softener gunge survive that.

Post# 957620 , Reply# 27   9/15/2017 at 05:32 by saz1 (LA)        
Too little detergent

combo52 says too little detergent will cause the spider arm to fail.... How, exactly?
I understand from here that soap left to sit on the spider arm is not good. So logically, the less soap there is, the better...no? How is more soap better?


Post# 957622 , Reply# 28   9/15/2017 at 05:50 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
It's not soap that is left behind on the spider but dirt and calcium build up. If you don't use enough detergent, the dirt in the wash water doesn't get dissolved well enough, so it stays behind. So use enough detergent and wash on high enough temperatures and the risk of spider problems will be smaller.




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