Thread Number: 72709  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Tariffs on Washing Machines
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Post# 960879   10/6/2017 at 01:38 by Stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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Excerpt:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. International Trade Commission found on Thursday that surging imports of large residential washing machines harmed domestic producers, a major step toward the imposition of broad duties or quotas on foreign-made Samsung- and LG-brand machines.


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Post# 960918 , Reply# 1   10/6/2017 at 11:56 by iej (Ireland)        

What about on domestic made foreign brands and foreign made domestic brands?

Post# 961046 , Reply# 2   10/7/2017 at 02:26 by qualin (Canada)        

Good news for Alliance Laundry Systems and Whirlpool. Not so good for companies like LG, Samsung and maybe GE. This could be a good thing for the industry. Or maybe a bad thing? Thoughts? Opinions?

Post# 961076 , Reply# 3   10/7/2017 at 07:48 by iej (Ireland)        

I'm just wondering if the EU has higher tariffs on some of these as while Samsung and LG are present here, they're far from being super-dominant. There's definitely much more of a mixture of brands than there is in the US.

Post# 961100 , Reply# 4   10/7/2017 at 10:26 by agiflow2 (iselin, nj)        

Before the 2000s nearly all of our appliances in the US were American brands. Whirlpool, GE ,Maytag and Frigidaire (actually Swedish Electrolux) were the big 4 producing all the different name plates. We really had no need for South Asian made machines. Wish we could go back to that.

Post# 961298 , Reply# 5   10/8/2017 at 07:18 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
We have a good number of washer choices here

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Whirlpool [ Amana, roper, estate, Maytag and some Kenmore's ] GE, Frigidaire, LG, Samsung, Bosch With Miele at about last.

 

I do think that LG and Samsung have not played fairly in the US market. They have given huge incentives to sales people to push their appliances to US consumers who then find out that they have purchased appliances that are virtually unrepairable  because SS & LG have not set up parts and service organizations to deal with the large volume of problems their overly complex cheaply built appliances.

 

John L.


Post# 961304 , Reply# 6   10/8/2017 at 07:51 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
"We really had no need for South Asian made machines.

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Problem is as with so much else manufacturing related the ship has sailed (for various reasons) from American shores to Mexico, Canada, and Asian countries.

Microwave ovens are an interesting case in point. Yes, Amana got the ball rolling, but when Asian manufacturers found out how to make quality and affordable microwave ovens, production slowly shifted from the United States.

On the one hand prices for "durable/white goods" have decreased over the years to the point you can find microwave ovens in Rite Aid stores, and washing machines going for very little money. OTOH it has decimated this country's manufacturing base


Post# 962550 , Reply# 7   10/14/2017 at 16:35 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
It is rather ironic

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That main reason Whirlpool was allowed to get their mitts on Maytag was the then GWBII administration determined competition from likes of Samsung and LG would be enough competition to balance the market.

Now WP is crying "foul", and needs or wants protection.

All this noise likely has much to do with Samsung's status as leader of the USA appliance market.

www.twice.com/news/appliances/sam...

That being said WP does dominate the laundry sector with a 43% market share.
www.statista.com/topics/2...

To be clear WP is not really hurting, well not at least financially; their pride is another matter.

dailycaller.com/2017/09/29/a-whir...


Post# 962563 , Reply# 8   10/14/2017 at 17:23 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

The article makes a very good point about the TV sector, for example long established brands like RCA and Zenith were destroyed within the time span of 10-15 years from the introduction of foreign competitors. Doug Harland(DRH4683) uploaded a early '90s documentary that showed what killed the American TV industry. An interesting thing to watch. It seems as though history is repeating is self to an extent. RCA is Whirlpool today and LG/Samsung are Sony/Matsushita(Panasonic).

Here is a link to the documentary.


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Post# 962570 , Reply# 9   10/14/2017 at 18:02 by henene4 (Germany)        

I think that actually is something that is verry exclusive to the US market.

In Germany, we had frontloaders basicly ever since we had automatics, and since we have automatics, we had the same few brands (Miele, Bosch, Siemens, AEG, Bauknecht).
With the advent of cheaper machines some brands came along (Arcrelik brands, Candy/Hoover, Gorenje, Indesit), but the big old companys stayed.

In the US, laundry had a dramatic change in the past 10 years. Basicly an entire new kind of machine has taken over.
And with that, new brands gained market share. If the HE takeover wouldn't have happend, I guess that Samsung and LG wouldn't have had the chance to establish themselfes.
Same with flatscreens. Or electric cars.


Post# 962572 , Reply# 10   10/14/2017 at 18:14 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
There is more to it than just that Frontline piece

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As to why and how American electronics manufacturers closed, and or sold to Asians.


www.nytimes.com/1995/07/18/us/las...

Much of it had to do with same things that happened and or are happening with durable white goods, automobiles and countless other things once made in USA; American consumers put lower prices over "Buy American" and that was the beginning of end.

Can well remember when VCRs were an expensive item, as were televisions and later color sets. But by the 1990's or so prices dropped, this and or you could get a VCR or television from places like Walmart.



Post# 962574 , Reply# 11   10/14/2017 at 18:27 by henene4 (Germany)        
Does made outside the US really mean cheaper?

I mean, Maytags are at least still assembled in the US, and they are about equally priced for equal or even better features compared to LG/Samsung, or aren't they?

I mean, WP offers automatic dosing. The only thing they don't have (yet) is a system like TurboWash/SuperSpeed.


Post# 962575 , Reply# 12   10/14/2017 at 18:31 by agiflow2 (iselin, nj)        

Ok. I will say this about foreign made microwave ovens. I just recently had to scrap a Kenmore Elite microwave that was made by LG. That microwave lasted 11 years, the longest by a mile of any other microwave ovens I have had since 1988. Several of them were made in the USA and lasted just after the warranty.

Sharp made an excellent microwave but the two I had didn't last 3 years. Those were assembled in the USA. Had a GE that lasted only a couple of years.

Getting back to the Kenmore Elite and it's replacement. I purchased an LG that was very similar to the Kenmore with the rounded interior. It had a good scoring from CU but I find it tends to cook longer on the automated settings. It over defrosted some chicken I was thawing and cooked the edges and the same with pork chops.

I'm just going to live with it. If I vet half as many years with this one I figure I am ahead. LG does do good microwave ovens though.


Post# 962577 , Reply# 13   10/14/2017 at 18:38 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
It is a very complicated issue

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High labor and other costs have caused all sorts of manufactures in USA for decades to flee these shores for Mexico, Asia, etc... Then you have to also have to factor in the lose to nil laws and or regulations on everything from environment to working conditions that make it cheaper to produce things in whole or part off shore.

Americans long ago began looking at things more about price than quality. That and or status. There are Americans who would rather die than drive an "American" car and only will consider BMW, Mercedes-Benz, or any other European.

How and where things are assembled also is complicated because of laws/regulations that control what can be labeled "made in America". If you assemble an entire washing machine in say China, then it will be labeled as such. But IIRC long as the thing has a certain percentage assembled in USA (even if parts come from elsewhere), it can be called "Made in USA".


Post# 962580 , Reply# 14   10/14/2017 at 18:46 by appnut (TX)        

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It galls me to no end, every time there's  Home Depot appliance commercial it's Samsung.  I wanna puke.  People just have no clue what crap it is and cannot get parts.  I see a lot on modern appliance forums.  At least with Lowes, their washer commercials are almost always Whirlpool. 


Post# 962582 , Reply# 15   10/14/2017 at 18:59 by henene4 (Germany)        
Microwaves

Microwaves are (like TVs) one of those things that are literlly designed to be scrapped every few years, and most people don't really care much.

We had a Sharp microwave that lasted a good 25 years. Then we had 2 cheap units that neither lasted longer then 2 months.
Now we have a cheap one that came with 3 year warranty and its been doing fine so far.
On those items, revenue margins are so small that only mass makes distribution worthwhile.
Some more up the line models that are fairly well speced seem to do better, but a cheap solo microwave or microwave with grill for 100 bucks or less, nah.

Same on TVs. 3 years and they are dead. For the most part.

For those kind of appliances (and for verry BOL bigger appliances, actually), some extended warrantys can be an incredible bargain.
For example, a big distributor here in Germany offers warranty extensions for 5 years stepped by the price of the appliance.
We had our current TV (Phillips) on such a plan. Device was 700€ new, warranty extension was 70€ IIRC.
It once broke after 2,5 years and then again 2 years later. Both times, the entire panel was replaced which is a 500+€ job.
Now its 6,5 years old and is on the verge of breaking again. So that warranty actually payed for itself about 20 fold.


Post# 962602 , Reply# 16   10/14/2017 at 21:23 by johnrk (Houston)        
Quantity Over Quality

I've always loved my coffee, and while I don't use one all the time, I go through periods of wanting percolator coffee. Has anyone on here tried to buy a quality percolator lately? They really don't exist. My favorite pot, and I own several, is one of the Proctor Silex percolators from the 60's with the clear glass carafe and lights in the power base.

Being born in 1955, I remember well the small and large appliances that my parents owned. My father was a chem engineer, so we weren't poor. However, even something as basic as a percolator back then would cost enough that it would require consideration. And, if it broke, it would certainly justify getting it repaired. And my mother certainly collecting trading stamps!

There's a fascinating appliance distributor's catalog from 1954 for sale here. I purchased the pdf and have spent some enjoyable time looking through what was available. Looking through laundry equipment, a Whirlpool automatic, or a Bendix for example, shows the price at roughly $300. Doesn't sound bad, does it? However, the adjustment for 1954 dollars to today shows an equivalence of $8.98! Therefore, that machine would run $2600-2700 in today's money. There are dozens of TV's in there--table models, consoles, etc. They run $300-500. You can do the math. I own an NOS Dulane Fryrite deep fryer in my little collection, it's shown in there for $65 ($~550). And so on.

We Americans have used our amazing technological advances to make machines that will perform but unfortunately don't last. I'm optimistic that shrinking resources on this little planet, along with regulations limiting/prohibiting just tossing manufactured goods, will return sanity to how people purchase, and keep, large and small appliances.


Post# 962662 , Reply# 17   10/15/2017 at 08:30 by agiflow2 (iselin, nj)        

I have an electric percolator I purchased from BB&B a few years ago. I don't know where you can get the stove top ones, but the percolator I have starts brewing nearly immediately when you plug it in. It is a Hamilton Beach unit and works very well.

Post# 962692 , Reply# 18   10/15/2017 at 12:17 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Electric percolator

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We have two made by Russell Hobbs and the last and so far the best one is a Dualit the same people who make toasters its super fast and holds 10 cups and is by far one of the best I have found.

Austin


Post# 963027 , Reply# 19   10/17/2017 at 16:13 by Imperial70 (******)        

I'm considering Whirlpool to complete my kitchen remodel, but why is it so hard to find a dual zone dishwasher. GE has a few models like that. So I may have to go hybrid (whirlpool Fridge and stove, GE dishwasher) even though I like how the Maytag and Kitchenaids perform.

Post# 963034 , Reply# 20   10/17/2017 at 17:11 by appnut (TX)        

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What do you mean by dual zone dishwasher?  There's a model or two of WP that have top  rack only and numerous KitchenAids with top rack only.  My KitchenAid- produced Kenmore Elite has top rack and bottom rack only options.  Only a couple of Kenmore Elite models offer this, none thus far offer bottom only option in KitchenAid or WP lines.   There's a new Kenmore Elite dishwasher that's produced by LG.  The rest are KitchenAid products. 


Post# 963049 , Reply# 21   10/17/2017 at 17:52 by Imperial70 (******)        

Bob, sorry, I meant that you could select bottom only, top only or both...
But if they have Top rack only that would be great! Don't know how I missed them. I'm looking for front controls too and stainless steel inside and out if possible.
I'll take another peek. :-)

paul





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