Thread Number: 73020
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Miele W754 /W755 /W756 /W760
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|Post# 964524   10/27/2017 at 11:12 by Osolemirnix (Augsburg)  || |
we are looking for an old washing machine because they use more water.
It is really hard to get information about these old machines.
Does any of you use one of the Miele machines I listed in the subject?
They have the same water consumption in common.
I want to know how high the water level is, when the machine is washing. You are kind of my last hope to get this information. I already checked youtube but it was not very helpful. I would like to have first hand experience from somebody who is still using one of these machines.
|Post# 964537 , Reply# 1   10/27/2017 at 13:38 by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)  || |
I'm not sure exactly which model it is, but I'm getting a 10-year-old Miele home on Monday, I'll report back on water levels. It's probably possible with any of these to adjust the pressure switch with a screwdriver to increase water levels.
|Post# 964538 , Reply# 2   10/27/2017 at 13:57 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)  || |
|Post# 964569 , Reply# 3   10/27/2017 at 17:33 by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)  || |
|Post# 964590 , Reply# 4   10/27/2017 at 21:43 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)  || |
The W1286, which I have, can be programmed to use more water in each of the rinse fills and can be programmed, by programming "Sensitive" to provide an additional rinse. The W1286 combines the higher rinse fills with high speed spins after EVERY drain to give superior and efficient performance.
|Post# 964619 , Reply# 5   10/28/2017 at 02:30 by Osolemirnix (Augsburg)  || |
Thank you for your offer. I looking forward to the result...
Yes - that helps. I just learned that the main-wash cycle has a very low water level and there is more water with the rinses (of course)
I wonder if this video is in real time...? It would be interesting for me to know, how long the main wash cycle needs till first rinsing.
Thank you for the links. I already studied the manuals of these machines. (Miele was so kind to email them to me) But I could not find any clue how much water is used in the main wash cycle.
|Post# 964623 , Reply# 6   10/28/2017 at 04:16 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)  || |
Just curious, why are you so particular about the water level in the main wash? IIRC you can fill these on the wool cycle so you get a higher water level and then do a main wash on cottons. It costs a lot of energy to heat that amount of water though. Besides that, too much water in the main wash, has a negative effect on cleaning. The laundry rolls over more than that it tumbles.
That said, these washers use a lot more water than newer frontloaders, even on the lower water level in the cotton cycle.
BTW, there is a German washer forum:
It's a site in German. I see you live in Augsburg, but are you German?
|Post# 964629 , Reply# 7   10/28/2017 at 06:49 by Osolemirnix (Augsburg)  || |
I tried the forum but I think itīs not active anymore. There is another forum "forum.teamhack.de" where I asked the same question but got only one answer and than somebody closed the thread. "Purchase advice and consulting is unwanted in this forum." This forum here seems more friendly to me. (Some Germans are very strict with rules it seems.) I have to admit - I am German too...
The background why we look for an old washing machine with more water consumption:
Since we have a brand new Miele washing machine we (expecially my wife) are very unsatisfied with the washing result. Actually the long cycles with almost no water has a negative effect on the fabrics. The mechanical impact to the fabrics is pretty strong. My wife is expert with fabrics (creates clothes herself) and we "lost" some nice pieces of clothing through this machine. Before that we used a professional Miele in our cellar (PW5065) and before that we had a very old "Privileg". There were never any problems. The complete wash cycle was about one hour and it used more water. So we are looking for something similar.
Do you (or somebody else) know how long these old machines are in this low water main wash before they start rinsing?
|Post# 964631 , Reply# 8   10/28/2017 at 06:51 by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)  || |
These machines only have three fill levels; low (Normal Cottons/Permanent Press) medium (Delicates) and High (Woolens).
Wash cycles are at the given levels for particular cycle. Lowest for Cottons/Normal and highest for Woolens. Rinses all are high fill level unless "1/2" button is selected.
Manual tells that for starching the "1/2" button gives about five US gallons. But the Extra-Prewash (really a soak cycle with high water level) uses (according to tables) seven gallons.
Furthermore difference between using "Short" wash cycle versus "Normal" for cottons or Permanent Press (omitting Prewash) is about three gallons of water.
If we use the assumption all rinses use same high water level as Extra-Prewash (7 US gallons), and there are four deep rinses that fill after tub is drained (the first rinse in Normal/Cottons is a cool down that adds cold water to tub after main wash, and fills to "medium/Delicates level") 4x7 ='s 28. That leaves the difference of four US gallons to make the 32 used in Normal/Cottons. Thus between four to five gallons seems about right for the wash cycle in that cycle. Again depressing the "1/2 button" for rinses takes water level for those cycles down to five US gallons.
Manual notes water consumption numbers can vary and there is good reason for this. First and foremost these machines do not extract after main wash, first or second rinse. There is a short 30 second spin between Second and Third rinse, and finally a full spin between Third and Fourth.
This lack of extraction between rinses means laundry carries over amounts of water from previous cycle. Since textiles are already saturated they aren't going to absorb much more water. This is the same method used in many laundromat washing machines which cuts down on their water use as well.
Because of this carry over what a rinse cycle *could* fill to versus what it will is going to vary by many factors.
When these Miele washers finally do spin (short and then long as noted above), if there is too much water and or froth extracted at once machine will slow or stop spinning; but timer is not held. If that portion of spin cycle times out and there is still amounts of water/froth left in tub or wash, tant pis; the machine will begin to fill for next rinse with that "extra" water still in tub. So obviously that is going to influence how much water is taken on.
Depending upon where the timer is, the machine will fill to satisfy certain set water pressure levels. If said levels drop (as in textiles absorbing water) machine will stop and fill with more water until preset level is reached again. So if clothing is still "wet" it won't absorb as much water contrasted with either start dry or extracted.
Modern Miele washing machines use about 13.5 gallons for an entire cycle IIRC. This can be done because they extract after main wash and after each rinse. So they need fewer rinse cycles.
If you don't wish to run the sums the other painfully obvious answer to your query involves a bucket and measuring device. Simply allow washer to fill at whatever cycle you want measured, then set the machine to drain while the hose is in a bucket. Pour collected water into measuring device (or use scale) and that will supply answer.
|Post# 964642 , Reply# 9   10/28/2017 at 07:58 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)  || |
The W700 series have washtime guarantee, I think it was "Waschzeitgarantie". A cottons cycle IIRC was in total always something like two hours. Don't know how long the main wash was. It will definitely use more water than a modern Miele, even in the main wash. But with those old fashioned motors there is no soft start for the tumble sequence.
If your laundry comes damaged out of a new Miele, there could be something wrong with the drum. Have you tried sweeping around inside the drum with a nylon stocking to see if there are any sharp edges?
If your wife designs clothes and uses delicate fabrics, I would wash those clothes defintetely not in the cottons cycle. That cycle is only meant for more sturdy stuff like towels etc. A permanent press cycle or depending on the fabric a delicate cycle or wool cycle would be more appropriate for such clothes. Also you can tweek the settings with extra water (a programmable function) and a short option. The newer Mieles are very versatile machines, especially the more expensive models. BTW, what model do you have?
Sorry to hear that you haven't found anywhere else any help. The German forum used to be very active until the older messages were deleted. I hope we can help you here a bit further, both with older and newer machines.
|Post# 964645 , Reply# 10   10/28/2017 at 08:24 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)  || |
BTW, if you're interested in a second machine, this might be interesting.
You have a timer, so you can change the cycle according to your wishes. Water levels are very decent, cycles rather short, several options in length of the main cycle (ignore the suggestions on the chart on the machine, when I use mine 2 is long wash, 3 is short wash). Most of them don't spin between rinses, but if you select the permanent press cycle, you can easily do a spin after three rinses and then do some extra rinses. They are a bit quirky though, they don't have a suspension, but have springs. They perform a little dance when spinning.
|Post# 964660 , Reply# 11   10/28/2017 at 10:02 by Osolemirnix (Augsburg)  || |
Wow - so much information. Thank you for taking your time to write down so much. I appreciate it.
Thank you for your advice with Ebay-Kleinanzeigen. I already use this website a lot. I did not really understand if your text under the link was related to the AEG Toploader or was it in general?
We have a Miele WDB 030 WPS | W1 Classic Eco right now. It is only 4 months old but we will sell it again.
There is no problem with the drum. We checked. We never use the cotton cycle. Too much drum-movement, too long, lowest water level. My wife only uses the program with highest water level (but can only fill 1,5 kg then). At the very beginning I programmed the machine for highest water level which is possible. And of course we take always the water+ button.
I must say that we tried sooooo many things. Now this quest is over - there will be another machine.
But it is still kind of a gamble. Will an older machine improve the washing result?
We only can give it a try.
But I am so thankful for all your comments, questions and suggestions. It is really helping me to get a better picture. But itīs hard work.
We now have the chance to buy a Miele W760 first hand. Maybe thatīs the one for us...
|Post# 964673 , Reply# 12   10/28/2017 at 12:06 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)  || |
Yes, the text under the link related to that specific AEG toploader. If you choose to tradee your new Miele for an older one, I wouldn't advise this for the only machine you use. It has it quirks and the capacity is on the small side. Nevertheless it's great as a second machine.
BTW, what kind of fabric gets damaged the most by your machine?
Have you contacted Miele about your problem?
It is indeed a gamble if an older machine will improve the washing results. Perhaps you can find old testing magazines? More or less by coincidence I came across the test of your machine.
Another question, have you tried using different detergents? What detergent are you using?
Dutch consumers seem to be very content with their new Mieles. However I came across one review that said it was sometimes a bit abrasive in regard to tricot. Could your problems be related to the honey comb drum?
And one more question, have you considered finding another PW5065? You are used to that machine after all.
|Post# 964707 , Reply# 13   10/28/2017 at 15:15 by Losangeles (Muscle Shoals, AL 35661)  || |
|Post# 964711 , Reply# 14   10/28/2017 at 15:19 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)  || |
|Post# 964780 , Reply# 15   10/29/2017 at 02:12 by Osolemirnix (Augsburg)  || |
All kind of fabrics got damage - more or less. And yes - we contacted Miele but they were not of any help. We even had a service man here. Everything is okay with our machine. We are pretty sure that the problem is: too much drum movement, little water and very long cycles.
We also tried several detergents from different brands. Solid and liquid.
Anyway - I never expected and intended to find the reason for all this damage in this forum. But the prove for our thinking can only be made by using another machine.
So I must say that my question from the start is answered.
From now on we just have to take a chance with an old machine and make our experiences. Maybe I will share some of these experiences here in the forum. We will see...
But for now I am satisfied concerning the answers on this forum. Thank you all again.
Greetings from Augsburg,
|Post# 966330 , Reply# 16   11/6/2017 at 02:28 by Osolemirnix (Augsburg)  || |
now we have our new-old automatic washer. A Miele W760. So far it works.
We did a clean-washing cycle with citric acid first. In the rinse water was a lot of stuff. Like peeled off pieces of a year-old layer of lime,grease and remnants of detergent. That was a shock. Than I discovered that there is a lot of grey mud in the rills of the door seal. That was tough to get it out.
We run a lot of washing cycles but it still has stuff in the rinse water.
To be honest I am unsure if I can use citric acid anymore. Since some say that it can damage or destroy the inside-seals.
Somebody even said that it could spring a leak if we would remove all layers of lime.
Do you have advice or experiences in this matter?
I am not used to forums. I donīt know if I should open another thread or if it is okay to go on in this thread.
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|Post# 966333 , Reply# 17   11/6/2017 at 02:54 by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)  || |
So you might just wish to swap out the old nasty door boot for new. Did it when my used Miele arrived and am that glad. One on machine not only was coated "inside" with muck and mould, but had a hole as well.
Changing the boot isn't that difficult so can be a DIY job. That or you'll have to call out Miele tech.
If the drain hose is old it may be also caked inside with muck. Again an easy enough job to swap out for new, and drain hoses don't cost dear.
Finally using the instructions in manual it is a good idea to drain the washer, remove the drain filter, and then give everything a good cleaning. Put everything back together and test to see if done properly (machine does not leak from pump area when filling with water), before closing everything up.
Those are the three things you can do that will clear away much residue, scale deposits and general muck. Cannot see how the "springs" would be harmed by cleaning the tubs of machine as they are no where near. The springs are on the outside of washer supporting the tub. Who told you this?
Take a flashlight and shine it into the tub towards bottom. You may have to stick your head in a bit but at proper angle you can see "between" the tubs, this includes the heating elements what are at bottom slightly to right. Ideally this all should be fairly clean (mine is); but if you see scale deposits especially covering the heating elements things *might* need attending to sooner or later.
Main issue is the heating elements if badly coated with scale cannot function properly and will die sooner than they ought. This is not fatal as they can be replaced.
Before doing any more clean out washes; just do a few Cottons/Normal wash cycles using a good powder detergent with bleach (Persil) at 90C or 100C. Don't skimp on detergent use and leave door open afterwards. If you are going to use high temperatures might as well get some clean laundry for your money.
A good detergent powder like Persil contains enough of the good things to break down some scale and muck. The oxygen bleach will help with sanitizing and any mould.
When you take out the pump filter examine it well. If the thing is coated in muck/mold clean that stuff off, the soak for a bit in white vinegar. This will remove any scale and kill mold. Rinse well then replace.
|Post# 966365 , Reply# 18   11/6/2017 at 09:51 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)  || |
He didn't mention springs, he said he was advised it might "spring a leak" if too many layers of gunk were removed by the citric acid.
I've used citric acid to clean machines before. In my experience, the drum bearing seal gets a tad squeaky (it happened to 3 separate machines). Usually rectifies itself after a wash or two with normal detergent.
Separately, do a few boil washes with a good quality powder detergent, such as Persil or Ariel, to clean the machine too.
|Post# 966754 , Reply# 19   11/8/2017 at 04:04 by Osolemirnix (Augsburg)  || |
It was funny since I discovered the method with the flashlight too - just some days ago. I had my head in the drum, the flashlight in my mouth. Than I moved the drum. So it was a little like flip-book. But I could see the two heating elements. They are still dirty (with limestone?) at the beginning. The rest seems to be clean already. The wash tub seems to be clean too except for the area where the water runs into the drain-tube-hole.
Yes - your opionion confirms und encourages the cleaning-way I am going. Citric Acid and boil wash. And it will hopefully remove most of the limestone layers.
I will keep you informed. Hopefully soon we will be able to actually wash some clothes. There are still too many solid parts in the rinse water. (I put a fine sieve under the drain-tube in the sink)
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|Post# 966755 , Reply# 20   11/8/2017 at 04:23 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)  || |
A Miele dealer here advises to do a boil wash with two dishwasher tablets now and then. It might be a bit stronger than just citric acid.
Somehow it should stop releasing those solids. I think the previous owner didn't use enough detergent.
BTW, have you checked the hose from the detergent dispenser and the dispenser housing to the drum to see if there is any mold in there? Take the dispenser out and look inside. For the hose, use a bottle brush or so and some water. If there is mold in there, you could try cleaning it with toilet cleaner.