Thread Number: 75805  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
New dryer - Living in student-heaven
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Post# 996366   6/6/2018 at 11:42 by henene4 (Germany)        

In October I moved across Germany to the far North-West corner into a big shared house with other students.
We were 6 people until recently, now 5, and even though we aren't close to campus by any means (3.6km spot on, still easy to do with a bike), we have the most amazing landlords ever.
They even build us a nice outdoor grilling area over the past couple of months.

I had 3 demands when moving: Washer, Dryer, Dishwasher. This place is cheap and matched my demands perfectly.


So, let's start moving through our appliances.

First, cooling: We have 3 88cm fridges, so one fridge for 2 people in theory. 2 are stacked freestanding, one is integrated in the kitchen. The first picture is the 2 stacked units. A Zanker and some no-name thing.
We have a 6 drawer freezer as well (pic 2).
Those 2 towers are basicly oposing each other to either side of the door to the kitchen coming down the stairs from my rooms (yes, plural).

Our oven got replaced about a month or so ago with some cheap old Siemens that is actually pretty awesome.
When we moved in one plate on the cooker wasn't working and one wouldn't regulate properly anymore, and the oven heated unevenly and the convection fan was unbearably loud.
Now we have 4 verry fast plates, convection and even a "Backwagen". (Google that, it's a verry hard to explain thing and weired to use at first, but so incredible comfortable in my opinion).

Dishwasher is a verry basic Bosch. Does its job, racks are meh though.

The washer is a simple slim line Gorenje. It's a decent machine for what it is. Verry small drum (but it basicly serves only single peoples wash loads).
Rinsing is poor if you don't take care (using water plus or the allergy option).
But it does spin-washes on Cottons and keeps a pretty steady wash temperature.
The place where it stands is verry crocket and adjusting the legs for it to stand stioo is basicly impossible, especially as these Gorenjes shake like crazy. So it sits on one of those rubber anti slip matsm though only the right side is on it. That keeps it from moving excessivly.

Oh, and a quick view at the grilling area. That street behind it is rather calm and there are horses on the other side.



And now, to todays star: The dryer!

Up until saturday we had a basic Bosch heatpump dryer. The 11 cycle, 3 option version with time end delay. Pretty old as it had the verry first filter iteration without any seal that sat verry loosly.
A few weeks ago the top of the handle broke loose, then it sporadicly would display the full container error even though it wasn't full and after a load of bedding last saturday, it was stuck with that. The typical SelfCleaning condenser fault.

Told our landlords yesterday and as I came home from my lectures today I was greeted by the new dryer: A Grundig GTA 38261 G. Was on offer in the local store (499Ä).
A+++, inverter motor, big drum with light and pretty fast for its class (2,5h label cycle).
Only had it on for 2min to check that everything was working and gosh is it quiet.

(Sorry for the bad pictures, it is located in the hallway between bathroom and kitchen and that is only about 120m wide.)



Will report back on how it performs!


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 19         View Full Size



Post# 996382 , Reply# 1   6/6/2018 at 12:39 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
Nice.
It's always interesting to see what appliances and setups are like in other countries. And that brick wall in your yard is very cool looking!

Is it customary in Germany to have multiple small fridges other than one large unit in the kitchen like in the US?


Post# 996384 , Reply# 2   6/6/2018 at 12:52 by henene4 (Germany)        
Multiple small fridges

Not really. That is more of a made-to-suit solution. The house here was once the family home of our landlord and they only had the small build in fridge presumably. Now that there are basicly 6 seperate tiny households under one roof instead of one big one, this works better.

Some households like my family back home have a fridge and freezer in the kitchen and seperate fridge and freezer as overflow and stockpile in the basement.
That is somewhat more common here, but as far as I understand about the same number of people have such a setup over in the states.


Post# 996424 , Reply# 3   6/7/2018 at 01:46 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
That's a very nice looking dryer. I have seen these with more chrome too, so this must be a cheaper one than that? For a dryer that price it has a lot of options! Great value for money possibly.

Post# 996430 , Reply# 4   6/7/2018 at 04:15 by rapunzel (Sydney)        

In Europe people don't generally have large fridges. It is customary for many households to shop more frequently (daily), for groceries and cook from scratch with fresh ingredients. Fridges tend to only be used for short-term storage of victuals and don't need to be so capacious.

Most people live in rental flats (apartments) with space at a premium and often have to provide all the kitchen furnishings themselves, including fridges and cookers. The kitchen sink is the only standard fixture in a rental. It is a little more common now to have built-in kitchens, but by no means is it standard like here in Oz or in the US. However, larger families, who live in their own homes may have a chest freezer and American style refrigerators are available to those with the space and necessary change. Then there is electricity consumption. Our fridges consume a lot more juice than your average European fridge.

European households tend to be more compact. The average home size in Oz is about 243 square meters (2616 sq ft). European living spaces average at 140 square meters (1507 sq ft).


Post# 996431 , Reply# 5   6/7/2018 at 04:15 by rapunzel (Sydney)        

In Europe people don't generally have large fridges. It is customary for many households to shop more frequently (daily), for groceries and cook from scratch with fresh ingredients. Fridges tend to only be used for short-term storage of victuals and don't need to be so capacious.

Most people live in rental flats (apartments) with space at a premium and often have to provide all the kitchen furnishings themselves, including fridges and cookers. The kitchen sink is the only standard fixture in a rental. It is a little more common now to have built-in kitchens, but by no means is it standard like here in Oz or in the US. However, larger families, who live in their own homes may have a chest freezer and American style refrigerators are available to those with the space and necessary change. Then there is electricity consumption. Our fridges consume a lot more juice than your average European fridge.

European households tend to be more compact. The average home size in Oz is about 243 square meters (2616 sq ft). European living spaces average at 140 square meters (1507 sq ft).


Post# 996433 , Reply# 6   6/7/2018 at 06:46 by henene4 (Germany)        
Great value

Yeah, it's one of the cheapest A+++ classed dryers.

Interesting find: The condenser filter does not have any kind of reed switch like the Bauknecht back home does, so you can open the filter compartment without the dryer stopping and even can check the temperature of the cold side of the heatpump. Probably not the safest thing, but perfect for people like us!

Currently runnig the first load, a set of bedding. Let's see how bad it tangles.


Rapunzel:
Space really isn't at a premium here where I live. I mean, I live on an old pony farm (still has horses, just that the stables are rented out), and am still considered as "living in the city".
But it's true the fridges tend to be smaller rather then larger.

The complete area of this house has to be somewhere in the area of 250-300m≤. 6*25m≤ plus bathrooms, kitchen and hallways.


Post# 996439 , Reply# 7   6/7/2018 at 08:26 by henene4 (Germany)        

I'm somewhat torn.

The bedding was dry - without interference. It was somewhat tangeled, but dry, completly.

But reversing on this dryer is kind of a joke. "Reversing" here means stopping for about 3 seconds, doing less then half a turn in reverse direction and continuing drying.
I mean, it has in inverter motor, it should be abled to reverse properly for at least a couple of turns, but nope.


Current load: Drying bath mats, checking the Easy Care cycle.


Post# 996441 , Reply# 8   6/7/2018 at 08:42 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Do you have nice views of the surrounding countryside? Or is it partially built upon?

And thanks for the Grundig dryer report... I'm tempted by the Blomberg version which sold via our Euronics/independent stores. Grundig appliances are only sold via Currys here.


Post# 996445 , Reply# 9   6/7/2018 at 09:14 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Backwagen:

rolls_rapide's profile picture
= sliding oven door with trays.

Basically, a type of drawer system.


Post# 996457 , Reply# 10   6/7/2018 at 11:08 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Reversing Tumble Compact dryers

combo52's profile picture
Really does very little good, if the stuff doesn't have room to move reversing will do little or no good.

24" wide dryers are just too small to dry large loads especially of larger items without excessive wrinkles.

John L.


Post# 996467 , Reply# 11   6/7/2018 at 12:30 by henene4 (Germany)        

Sorry to impede on your status their, but I think I used more compact dryers the you, combo52.
And reversing does help. A lot. If done right. If the dryer reverses 50/50, or every few minutes, bedding does not tangle. Period.
You can't concevibly dry more then 2-3 sets of bedding anyway.
And it's funny how the entirety of Europe can happily dry in compact dryers.

Rolls_rapide: It's the northern part of Germany. It's flat for about 100km in any direction, dosen't come across in pictures at all.

Had 2 synthetic loads so far. One on Easy Care, on the Sports cycle (which is more of a mixed cycle accoding to the manual), the former was almost dryer, the latter needed half an hour more.
So far, so good, but not really respective of the machine yet.
Temperature is really low though!

Will report again after I did more trials.


Post# 996482 , Reply# 12   6/7/2018 at 15:22 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"compact..."

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Much depends on how you define "compact".

A compact dryer to most folk, would be the small sizes, as produced by White Knight and Creda; i.e 3 kilogrammes capacity.

A standard dryer would be the 6/7/8 kg machines.

American 'standard' sizes to us, are anything but. They are large and oversized.


Post# 997239 , Reply# 13   6/15/2018 at 11:18 by henene4 (Germany)        
Impressed

So far, impressed.

The "Jeans" cycle is spot on. Perfct for thicker, multi-layered items.

The cottons cycles dry spot on, far better then almost any heatpump dryer I have used, only the old ELux design comes close (though that was far less efficient).
Towels are soft and dry. Other heatpump dryers often either leave stuff damp-ish or rough-ish, this one is exactly in the middle of that, perfect.
You have to use the cupboard dry plus setting, though.
I haven't washed my bedding yet, but both of my flatmates bedding loads did not tangle.

I washed a comforter and dried it on the comforter setting. That had to be rerun, but was close to being dry.

Will try the "Mini" cycle soon and will wash my oversized bedding and report back then.



Some side notes:

You do know you are using a budget dryer. Stuff like no dryness fine adjustment, the missing reed switch for the condenser filter or simply allowing the adjustment of the anticrease (if there even is one, didn't check yet).

It's quiet though. The compressor stays relativley quiet throughout the cycle and does not start to sound like its cavitating like our Whirlpool back home does as it nears the cycle end. Loudest thing about this one is the condensate pump.
The inverter motor does make the odd high-frequency noise every now and then on startup, but oh man is it quiet while running.

Some googling revealed it uses an LG-made single-speed 420W heat pump.
Somehow it is still verry fast and gentle. Most loads finish in less then 90min, probably due to the intense airflow.

Filters are easy to clean and far more substatial then the WP back home. For pre-heatpump filtration it uses a 1cm dense black foam. Not quiet Miele level, but good and easy to handle.



Overall - considering the price - a good choice I'd say. Fast, verry efficent, gentle, quiet.
Would take this one over any heatpump dryer I used before.
Given they managed to optimize these to the point where you don't need an inverter driven heatpump anymore to reach A+++ rating in an aceptable amount of time, it'll be not to long before A+/A++ are being phased out.

But still want to use an inverter heatpump dryer some time to see if that makes such a huge difference as I think it could.


Post# 998562 , Reply# 14   6/27/2018 at 13:47 by henene4 (Germany)        
Final review

Dried pillows, a down comforter and several assortments of bedding as well as regular laundry.

You basicly only need 4 cycles: Cottons Cupboard Dry Plus, Jeans, Comforters and the timed dry.
Haven't tried the Woolens, Delicates and Shirts cycles yet, but don't think you'd ever need these.

I had nothing tangeling or ball up so far. Large loads of bedding do wrinkel a bit, but don't tangle and basicly always dry 100% evenly and are still far less wrinkeld then out of the Bosch.

Cycles are quick enough, maintenance is easy, it is quiet.

Now it's on to the longterm performance, it has a 3 year warranty, so let's see how it holds up!


Post# 998603 , Reply# 15   6/27/2018 at 18:00 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Grundig = upper end beko Thanks Henene4 for the pics etc

ozzie908's profile picture
I had the beko heat pump dryer for 3.5 years and there were 2 things that I hated but thought it was just me being picky....
1 it tangled all bedding no matter what cycle was used
2 that hateful black sponge filter on the condenser it used to drive me nuts cleaning it.

Sold the beko to replace it with a John Lewis = AEG in disguise and wow what a difference you select bedding and it reverses equally and thus untangles the sheets it also dries very evenly and there is NO sponge filter just a second sealed almost like fine gauze one that you vacuum or brush clean every so often.
I am pleased the Grundig is the same as I had contemplated one when my AEG dies but if they didn't improve the filter system or the tangling issue I will buy another AEG instead as sadly Miele heat pump dyers I believe have an omnidirectional motor so no good for fitted sheets.

Austin


Post# 998614 , Reply# 16   6/27/2018 at 19:43 by rapunzel (Sydney)        

So what is the expected lifespan of modern Grundig and AEG dryers?

I was in Germany for a funeral earlier this year and watched a program on cheap washing machines. Seemingly, some consumers think nothing of replacing their washers every four to five years and sometimes even sooner.


Post# 998681 , Reply# 17   6/28/2018 at 09:50 by henene4 (Germany)        
Probable lifespan

Thing with heatpump dryers is that - simmilar to a AC unit - these just have limited lifespan.

AEGs tend to be in the 5-8 year range, probably, plus minus, of course.
Arcrelik appliances are in a simmilar range.

BSH don't do it much longer either by now. Miele seems to aim at the 10 year mark.

One has to note there the AEGs often die to board failures while most BSH machines die to the self cleaning condenser issue.
At first the AEG seems like the worse pick, but the AEG offers far greater drying results and getting a BSH dryer cleaned can actually end up being more expensive then repairing the AEG would be.
Dunno about the current Arcrelik range yet, that design isn't all that old yet.


And it's true that in Germany, replacing your appliances every 5 years is common place and ok with most consumers.
We know we basicly pay next to nothing for them (I mean, we get a 1400rpm FL with an extended 5 year warranty delivered for around 300Ä, and a heatpump dryer for 350Ä), so that is ok with us.


Post# 998749 , Reply# 18   6/28/2018 at 21:26 by rapunzel (Sydney)        

That's not very green, is it? Since they don't really recycle these products do they ship them to Africa or do they end up in local landfill?

Post# 998763 , Reply# 19   6/29/2018 at 05:59 by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Indeed! So, you buy a heat pump dryer to save you money and then the very thing that saves money breaks down?

Post# 998768 , Reply# 20   6/29/2018 at 07:04 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Possibly, yes. But on the other hand some airconditioners have run for a long time, so that might happen to heat pump dryers too. So far I like my heat pump dryer, I'll see how it turns out in the end.

The shirt's cycle on the Grundig, is that a cycle too that partially dries the shirts so they can be hung up?


Post# 998796 , Reply# 21   6/29/2018 at 11:02 by henene4 (Germany)        
Break down

With current rates of electricity and the prices dryers have come to, HP dryers have become the more efficent choice for most.




Let's do a quick calculation:

The cheapest 8kg condenser dryer uses 4,6kWh for a full load, and 2,6kWh for a half load. That comes down to an EU rating of 559kWh per year.

Our heatpump dryer uses 1,4kWh for a full load, 0,83kWh half loaded and on the EU label, 177kWh.

Coincidently, you only loose about 10 minutes going for the more efficent one.

Thus, you save about 380kWh per year. At 25 cents per kWh, that is about 95Ä.

The price difference is about 250Ä (250Ä vs 500Ä).

Thus, you'd save money while the efficent dryer still is under warranty.

Take in mind cheap A+ dryers can be had below 300Ä and A++ dryers go as low as 350Ä, so for most smaller or light use scenarios, those are far more economic. And consider that partial loading heatpump dryers is more efficent than loading a condenser dryer just half, basicly anybody unless you are a single household should probably go HP.


Post# 999381 , Reply# 22   7/5/2018 at 11:46 by iej (Ireland)        

I have a Miele heat pump dryer and I have to say the energy savings are really very noticeable when compared to a vented dryer. It has a built in energy consumption meter, so I will give you the full cost of a load of towels next time I run one.

Post# 999389 , Reply# 23   7/5/2018 at 12:19 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
AEG heat pump dryer

ozzie908's profile picture
Has become super fast in this warmer weather now it saves time as well as energy. Oh and before the " its cheaper still to use the clothesline " lot start I don't have a garden just a small yard so I still use the dryer for a lot of things.

Austin


Post# 999396 , Reply# 24   7/5/2018 at 13:07 by iej (Ireland)        

Large load of towels to "Extra dry" 0.8kWh*
(Spun out at 1600rpm)

*Sourced from 100% green energy.
CO2 output 0g

1 kWh is 14.04 Euro cents.

Cost of load 11 cents (Ä)

Or: (At Google's rates)

US$ 0.12 £0.09 Can$ 0.16 Aus$ 0.17


Post# 999473 , Reply# 25   7/6/2018 at 04:48 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
@ Ozzie908:

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Regarding "super fast in this warmer weather..."

Does that also mean that heatpump dryers are possibly more problematic in a cold room, in the middle of winter (eg. room temp of 9įC)?


Post# 999477 , Reply# 26   7/6/2018 at 06:21 by henene4 (Germany)        
Cold rooms

Will slow them down. Heating power is minimal, so a hot start makes far more of a difference.

Most state operating temps between 5 and 35C.


Post# 999483 , Reply# 27   7/6/2018 at 07:29 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Thanks for that Henene4.

My kitchen is always cold in winter, even more so if the 'Beast from the East' (Siberian freezing gales) is in action. The kitchen radiator doesn't have much effect.

So my quandary is: do I eventually buy a heatpump dryer which might work marvellously during the summer when I least need it, but perhaps not be effective during the winter months when I do need it? And costly to buy, but cheap to run.

Or do I just get another conventional condenser (or vented for that matter) which would be a heat generator during summer when I don't really use it often, yet work splendidly during winter? Cheap to buy, but costly to run.

I hate to say it, but conventional machines appear to be more suited to my particular environment. However, the rising cost of electricity is pulling me the other way too.

Decisions, decisions.


Post# 999485 , Reply# 28   7/6/2018 at 07:45 by henene4 (Germany)        

Our dryer back home is in a unheated, but frost free basement. In deepest winter, on huge loads, from cold, it might take a maximum of 30 minutes longer, somewhere around 2 1/2h max for a full 7kg load spun at 1400rpm.

As long as it is above 5C, it's fine. One great impact in winter is the laundry temperature being far cooler.

Price is a concern but easy to calculate if it is worth it.

From a laundry care perspective it is vastly superior. Uncomparable IMO.



If you are super concerned about speed in winter, there is a new speed dry model serries by Arcelik (Beko) which A+++ but has a speed dry option that uses a built in conventional heater while sacrificeing efficency.


Post# 999492 , Reply# 29   7/6/2018 at 09:37 by liamy1 (-)        
My next

One will be a heatpump.

I currently have a Blomberg condenser, it makes the house SO unbearably hot (that is possibly more down to the fact the house is brand new (well 2015), and the builders went stupidly overboard on insulation), my Gas bill in the first year was £29 for the year: I canít say what the electric was, itís shameful.

Although the Blomberg has needed a service call in the past and the Blomberg call centre was adamant that the appliance was a washer going of the model number on the appliance, even the Engineer who turned up thought he was coming to fix a washer, looked a bit confused when I directed him to the linen cupboard 🤣


Post# 999509 , Reply# 30   7/6/2018 at 11:51 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Again, thanks.

I did see 'in the flesh' recently, a Blomberg 'hybrid heatpump' machine, at about £500. I presume it was that variant?

"Blomberg call centre was adamant that the appliance was a washer..."

What was the outcome of that? Seems odd they can't tell apart their apples from their onions. Somebody must have goofed up the Blomberg database.

Gas bill of £29?! I wish!


Post# 999511 , Reply# 31   7/6/2018 at 12:48 by henene4 (Germany)        
Variant

Yes, Acrelik makes a lot of stuff today...

Post# 999922 , Reply# 32   7/10/2018 at 14:06 by liamy1 (-)        
Rolls

Sorry for delay in reply, been on long shifts this week.

I think itís either that one you saw, or possibly the one below (It was £379, with £30 cash back, which the applicance dealer took off the price there and then (so donít know why it was offered as a ďcash backĒ really))

Iíve put the one I *think* it is in the link, but could be slightly out on the model number (will check for you later), it does state ďwith heat pump technologyĒ but I canít see how mine is a HP machine in any way, it looks the same as any condenser Iíve had and it runs so blooming warm!!!

Re Blomberg insisting it was a washer, the only outcome of that was a delay on the repair, as the engineer thought he was coming to fix washer, he didnít have any idea of any parts that were going to be needed to fix dryer fault, so didnít have any in advanced, so on first visit said he needed to order a capacitor I think, and then went away,

Which has actually just made me remember the other issue, after a 2 week window had passed and no revisit, I called the call centre to be told the engineer had cancelled the job!! Anyway a few days later when he came back, he was very sheepish (I think he thought we were going to have a go at him, donít know why as we wouldnít have) and explained he hadnít cancelled the job, but that the office hadnít sent the part to him/or reassigned the job back to him.

So yes a few issues with Blomberg service and a repair that took 3 or so weeks, whilst not the worst service Iíve had surprisingly, itís still not ideal, and whilst I know they operate as their own business, they still come under the Beko umbrella


CLICK HERE TO GO TO liamy1's LINK


Post# 999949 , Reply# 33   7/10/2018 at 19:06 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
@Rolls Rapide

ozzie908's profile picture
In winter the shower room where the washer and dryer reside is slightly cooler than the rest of the house but not by much and it never goes down anywhere near 5c as I have read they don't work too well in really cold places.

It must be affected by warmer rinse water too as it must knock a good 20 mins off the drying time I only notice its shorter when I realise the dryer is doing its anti crease bit much sooner than I am used to.

I also have a vented dryer in the shed for doing dog bedding as the hairs in the inside machines drives me nuts so have a separate one its an old Zanussi from 2001 - 2002 still going strong.

Prefer the gentleness of the HP on clothing though as why wash warm and cook to dry :)


Post# 999984 , Reply# 34   7/11/2018 at 06:31 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Thanks again.

@liamy1:
Blomberg probably kept the model numbers quite close to each other, but changed the technology. I seem to remember Bosch had very similar model numbers for their full-size washing machine and the slim-depth version.





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