Horizontal Axis top loaders.


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Thread Number: 8477
Horizontal Axis top loaders.

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Post# 160123 10/12/2006 at 21:17 (6,405 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
Checkrate/Likes Hey all! I was interested particular in the Brit Boy's opinion of Horizontal Axis toploaders. Its been discussed ages ago but with many new members I was wondering what you all think. I was looking at the Hoover Top Vision on the web the other day. I honestly dont know why these machines are not more popular they seem a great alternative to those who dont like bending over for front loaders, and if made wider could have an enourmous capacity, use less water and still wash properly. Even the standard ones as they are made would be great in flats where a laundry is in the bathroom. Bendix in Australia sold one but the importer went bust. Kleenmaid sold two Brandt models but being Kleenmaid, they were hideously expensive and not that widely available. Shame. While I know you cant watch them in action the whole machine I found utterly fascinating. CLICK HERE TO GO TO arrrooohhh's LINK

Post# 160153 , Reply# 1 10/13/2006 at 04:10 (6,405 days old) by dascot (Scotland)
Checkrate/Likes I like them. One of the first machines I can remember was a Philips top loader, and it was an excellent machine. I can still remember now when I was much younger and wanted to help, being given a set of tongs to help get things out from the bottom of the machine! Many homes now just aren't designed to have the top loading machines, but if I had a utility room that could take one then I would consider it.

Post# 160156 , Reply# 2 10/13/2006 at 04:24 (6,405 days old) by robbiehotpoint ()
Checkrate/Likes personally i like to see whats going on in the wash even when i use my hotpoint toploader most of the time the lid is up but you couldnt do that with the machine in the pix.

Post# 160168 , Reply# 3 10/13/2006 at 05:53 (6,405 days old) by kirk280980 ()
Checkrate/Likes I've always liked them too, and had there been no worktop over the space for the washing machine, would have chosen one over a front loader. Bosch used to make one with the control panel situated on the front of the machine, so theoretically it could be slid under a worktop and wheeled out for loading and unloading, but in reality I thought this would prove to be a nuisance in actual daily use. Although you can't see what's going on inside, this does have its benefits. Rather like when using a Maytag Neptune, you eventually learn to stop worrying and just let the machine get on with what it's doing. Sounds impossible at first, but once you see that the washing does indeed come out clean, it becomes much easier to get your head round the whole idea. And if you really must see inside, most H-axis TLs will allow you to pause the cycle and open the lid immediately; worse case scenario is that some models make you wait 2 minutes before the lid unlocks. Another common complaint about H-axis TLs is the spring loaded drum flaps. Some of them can be quite vicious, so I can see why people feel wary about them. Zanussi have a marvellous design on their TL, where you just press a button and the flaps open slowly and gracefully without snapping at your fingers. Unless of course they have a patent on this mechanism, it's something all TLs should have IMHO. Finally, back when I was working for Bosch, my sales rep did tell me off the record that the company was considering a 60cm wide H-axis TL with a 7 kilo capacity, amongst other ideas. It never came to be, and presumably they went with the Nexxt/Logixx 9 design instead. Always thought that was a pity, because I would have liked to see such a machine and could imagine it being successful on the American market in particular, as an alternative to other HE top load designs for those who don't wish to switch to a front loader. Cheers, Kirk

Post# 160190 , Reply# 4 10/13/2006 at 08:46 (6,405 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *HORIZONTAL AXIS TOP LOADERS?!?!?* OH! I love them the most!!! How much we have discussed on these pages about them... I know that Louis and me are the two best H-axis TL's lovers! I have one, and I say that are the best washers ever made! You have the benefit of the tumbling action (low comsumes of water and energy, best cleaning efficiency even with heavy soil leve and stains, without pretreating), and you get a TL too! Then, instead of the FL which the drum is bolted only on the rear side, where the pulley works, in these machines the drum has got two bearings in both sides. I have got a Whirlpool AWT 8104 D (recently repaired on one bearings) that spins at 1000rpm without any problems of stability and noisy. Look at this... www.automaticwasher.org/TD/THREAD... the machine we are speakign about have been invented in US, although they're much more diffuse in Europe, while the agitating system as a standard there in US has been invented in Europe. Untill now these machine have been choosing for the dimension (they're smaller than a FL), sometimes decreasing the capacity (from 5kg standard, down to 4,5/4kg), now they can hand a load of 6kg as any other tumbling washer. They're not so diffuse however here neither. At the end, in Europe the most are tumbling washers, if you say FL, you mean the washer as it is known all over the world, if you say TL we mean this, h-axis. In US instead, if you say FL, is the same, if you say TL they mean v-axis, that's agitator/impeller washers. But, even in US there's a h-axis TL...STABER!!!! OL�! Now I want to see what happens...:-DDD Diomede CLICK HERE TO GO TO vivalalavatrice's LINK

Post# 160191 , Reply# 5 10/13/2006 at 08:51 (6,405 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *And this too!* It's a bit old this article... but look at it... What a dream! - h-axi efficienty - top loading confort - wash/dry features either! You have not to bend down any more! Standing in front of it you put in the drum the clothes dyirty and you get it dried at the end!!! CLICK HERE TO GO TO vivalalavatrice's LINK

Post# 160194 , Reply# 6 10/13/2006 at 08:55 (6,405 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *Thanks Ash!* the links it's in Italian...I realize it now :-)) does anybody need translation?

Post# 160198 , Reply# 7 10/13/2006 at 09:03 (6,405 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *Kirk* 60cm h-axis TL would be GREAT! They're almost disappeared from the earth... In the '60-'70 they were more common, producers take the advantage of them for the dimension not for the ease of loading. Bye! Diomede

Post# 160313 , Reply# 8 10/14/2006 at 06:35 (6,404 days old) by sudsman ()
Checkrate/Likes *Staber Washers* I have had 2 Staber washers and they are great for 3 or 4 mo. then they become you worst nightmare, POOEY POOEY!!!

Post# 160323 , Reply# 9 10/14/2006 at 08:28 (6,404 days old) by the7 ()
Checkrate/Likes Sudman, Could you tell us a bit more about the nightmare of Stabers? Use commercially or domestically?

Post# 160353 , Reply# 10 10/14/2006 at 15:09 (6,403 days old) by sudsman ()
Checkrate/Likes *the7* They were used commercial. But very lightly about 3 or 4 loads per day for scurbs not heavy loads either. We had trouble with the drain pumps , timers, cold fill valves, and one of the motors burned up in 6 weeks , They sent another and did replace it but It took a letter from our attorney to get it done. Also the caps that cover the bolts on the inside of the tubs where they were fastned to the shafts broke off and caused a lot of pulls and tears. We gladly sold them for junk and wrote them off ... Its really a sad shame I did love the way they operated and did a wonderful job of washing and extract ,, I wish they could get it together.. I liked the washability of the machines. But there is NO ONE that will work on them you do it ALL yourself

Post# 160357 , Reply# 11 10/14/2006 at 15:33 (6,403 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)
Checkrate/Likes I am sorry to hear of the problems with your Stabers. You would think for the money they charge for them, they would not be having these knids of problems. I like the Staber concept, and I must admit I have never seen one in person, BUT they do look kind of flimsy to me anyway. On a side note, Staber now offers their washers in a variety of colors besides white & Stainless. You can have red, green & blue...for a $500.00 surcharge! That is outrageous!

Post# 160366 , Reply# 12 10/14/2006 at 16:20 (6,403 days old) by sudsman ()
Checkrate/Likes *we paid* they cost us 1000.00 each and shipping was 350.00 each

Post# 160441 , Reply# 13 10/15/2006 at 10:04 (6,403 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *I'm afraid of Staber...* Looked from here it would seem a very good machine... Anyway, I told that the most appliances producers make TL (and here I mean h-axis), but as now the most narrow models are most available you foun ever less the old type of TLh-axis, the ones which seem more to the Staber, that's the 60cm wide models. In past those models were more available, with Ingis brand here and I think with Hotpoint brnad in UK, now only Hoover has got a model like that called SpazioTOP and here you are another one, BOMPANI! Look at the bottom of the page what is said about that model. I think that the same products are even commercialized with Philco brand too...maybe...I'm not sure Bye Diomede PS: I have alwasye hated that exagon shaped inner dumr of Staber's washers, I wrote it to them too and it was anwered me that's to give a more vigorous action...??? But the most h-axis drum has the right vigoroug action even without a exagon shape drum...so WHY? CLICK HERE TO GO TO vivalalavatrice's LINK

Post# 160444 , Reply# 14 10/15/2006 at 10:08 (6,403 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *SpazioTOP...* Hoover makes also this model.. CLICK HERE TO GO TO vivalalavatrice's LINK

Post# 160554 , Reply# 15 10/16/2006 at 02:18 (6,402 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
Checkrate/Likes Diomede, love the Spaziotop, and love the name. In Australia that name would have another meaning altogether. Very amusing. I think the 60 cm wide TL Horizontal Axis machine Kirk mentioned would of been 60 cm wide by 60 cm deep. I would imagine that would be an enourmous capacity machine. I noted that the french Arthur Martin machine has a plastic trap door that in theory, should be less tricky for those clumsy fingered type people.

Post# 160555 , Reply# 16 10/16/2006 at 02:20 (6,402 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
Checkrate/Likes *Nice looking on the outside too!* I often wonder why this type of machine is particulary popular in France?

Post# 160575 , Reply# 17 10/16/2006 at 06:23 (6,402 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *Because of the exterior dimension...* When in France has beginning to be popular the washing machine (in the early 60), the most people lived in very small flats, so it was a "compulsory" choice to buy a TL, first of all because you have not busy the space in front of it when you open the lid. Then these machine became smaller thaks to the engineering innovations. As other times I told, there in France EVERYTHING is TL, the have washers, combos washer/dryer and dryers too everything TL h-axis. Although each brand has got many types of machine, people prefer more those type with TL... Those flap you poested arrived first in France in 2001, simply pressing the blu pushbutton, the flaps rise up slowly without hearing the hit of the springs there are to keep'em closed. Try to look there...if you handle a bit of French... CLICK HERE TO GO TO vivalalavatrice's LINK

Post# 160589 , Reply# 18 10/16/2006 at 08:25 (6,402 days old) by dascot (Scotland)
Checkrate/Likes Arthur Martin machines are, I think, Electrolux group machines, so will be the same design as the Zanussi, Husqvarna and probably AEG TL machines. I remember discussions about the large capacity BSH top loaders, shame that idea never yet got further than the drawing board.

Post# 160596 , Reply# 19 10/16/2006 at 08:40 (6,402 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *Don't you remember...* The Equator TL h-axis combo washer dryer already exists! Wait... it is arriving in US either...:-)) CLICK HERE TO GO TO vivalalavatrice's LINK

Post# 160824 , Reply# 20 10/17/2006 at 01:17 (6,401 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
Checkrate/Likes *Equator* I will believe the Equator when I see it. Who is manufacturing this machine. IIRC arent Equators rebagded Philco machines or chinese machines? Im surprised that someone like LG havent introduced a machine like this.

Post# 160835 , Reply# 21 10/17/2006 at 05:22 (6,401 days old) by kirk280980 ()
Checkrate/Likes Yup, the machine in the pics is an Electrolux design, more or less identical inside to the Zanussi model we get here in the UK. The drum access flaps are still metal, with the plastic you see being an outer covering, presumably to stop them scuffing the top surround of the machine when open. Also helps to conceal any hinges, springs etc. that people are otherwise bound to stick their fingers into. Perhaps the next step will be a fully automatic opening device, like that featured on the F&P top load dryer, so each time you lift the lid the drum is already open and ready to go.

Post# 160839 , Reply# 22 10/17/2006 at 06:22 (6,401 days old) by lederstiefel1 ()
Checkrate/Likes *h-axis washers* Well, that makes me smile a bit here.... This is absolutely nothing new! All first combo-washers were h-axis TL - since about 1850!! This was an invention of a french abbot during the 19th century whereas at about 100 years earlier a German monk invented the first agitator-washer together with a carpenter in N�rnberg (1763). Unfortunately both machines did not succeed in the countries of origins.... Agitator-machines became most popular in America and Germany first, combos in England! Later it turned the way round gradually and also in the UK agitator machines became most popular. Here in Germany there are nearly only combos available for about 30 years meanwhile. Today combos are on their way to victory all over the world....unfortunately to me... TL H-Axis Washers were very popular in Germany 25-30 years ago, especially the very tiny space-savers (60x65x45 DxHxW)with full 10 lbs. capacity that even fitted underneath a bathroom wash-basin! Nowadays most Germans prefer FL as they want to see what's going on in the machine (extra TV progamme!?). Only France is still a TL H-Axis country. One thing that Germans do not like very much on TL is, that there are two lids to be opened before you can get onto your washing. Also older models had no auto-adjustment of the drum, so you had to turn the full drum by hand until the inner lid was top and in line with the outer lid to open the machine. Many machines had dual axis suspension (on both sides) but that is very bad for high spin speeds, so nowadays even these machines have only one suspension and higher spin-speeds, too! Ralf from Germany

Post# 160880 , Reply# 23 10/17/2006 at 11:12 (6,401 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes I knew that the agitator has been invented in Germany... have a look to these thread from the Delux forum, I posted something concerning the history of the washing machine, cause I'm working on a "tesi" about it I did some research BYE :-) Diomede CLICK HERE TO GO TO vivalalavatrice's LINK

Post# 160881 , Reply# 24 10/17/2006 at 11:27 (6,400 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *As you can see* Ralf, as you could have seen the first electric washer was a tumbling washer with an horizontal axis drum and it was a TL...that was the first 1910's Thor patent. Then Miele in Europe applicated an electric engine to the agitagor invention... I suppose it might been happend during the 1�WW...1914?!? I honestly can't image how a such great invention like the Thos then has became so NOT popular... fortunately now US people are discovering the rotating drum again...but with the front loading! The problem of having two lids I don't see it so awful... in past there were three!(cabinet-outertub-drum) Now the most has got only the major lid and then the drum lids... although the Miele EuroTLs for example I remeber have got still the three lids... For the final positioning... now every brand has got in its range the top models with that automatic repositioning system. Bye Diomede

Post# 161044 , Reply# 25 10/18/2006 at 01:49 (6,400 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)
Checkrate/Likes I was forced to have a TL h-axis some years ago due to space restrictions and initially thought I would miss seeing what was going on. Years later, and despite being able to have a traditional FL, I still have an h-axis as it takes up so little space and has the same capacity as a normal FL. It is AA rated and does a fantastic job of cleaning the dirtiest laundry. Personally, I don't know why they are not more popular, as they are in Europe

Post# 161047 , Reply# 26 10/18/2006 at 03:24 (6,400 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *The fantasy...* I know many people here will claiming the EuroTL cause if you're a "wash-spotting"... you can't assist to the show... but try to make it with a strong sense of the fantasy... With those green led on the control panel and an amazing splashy sound of the rotating drum I feel as I saw it the same... Then none stops me opening the lid and see the sudsy drum... although it come stop as soon as I open... I know many people here have bypassed their lidswithces of the v-axis TL... why can't you do the same on a h-asixTL?? Put the detergent directly in the drum and the seat down and look at there! By the way... remeber to close the lid as the spinning cycle start... if you don't want to get soaking wet! LOL! BYE Diomede

Post# 161096 , Reply# 27 10/18/2006 at 09:27 (6,400 days old) by lederstiefel1 ()
Checkrate/Likes *the fantasy and others...* For heavens sake Diomede! Imagine a child or even an adult would put his fingers to the rotating drum....and gets the fingers between drum and outer container....it will badly injure the whole underarm and could probably bruise the hand or tear off fingers!!! Concerning the techniques of H-Ax-TLs: Yes you are right, I remember the three lids very well but was to bored to mention them, as I thought, no-body would know about that outside Germany, because I believed, it was a special German thing.....how one can err!! Yes, the electricity was fit to the MIELE machines just before WW I., I guess, but couldn't claim much popularity before time after the war and especially after WW II. because of a lack of electricity in many basement laundry-rooms and even more because of the price. There was an other type of motor, even more popular than the electric one: the hydro- or water-motor, working by the pressure from the tap. It never became available in Britain because of their low-pressure water-system (tank-system). This type of motor was only working with agitators as it moves back and forth like the cylinder of a steam-engine. There were also hydro-presses (one huge cylinder with a double bottom or rubber-bag to press out the water) and hydro-spinners (turbine-system) available but they never became as popular as wringers did. Combo-washers weren't only available from MIELE but also from SIEMENS (Protos) and other brands as they had one advantage tub-washers hadn't: they could have a fire installed underneath to bring the suds to the boil while washing them simultaneously. Ok, there were also hydro-motors with agitators available to be sit-up on the rim of a copper-boiler instead of its lid, to make a heated washer out of an ordinary boiler! Nonetheless tub-washers have always been more popular because they were CHEAPER and MOVABLE! Remember that 80% of the Germans live(d) in RENTED FLATS! Fast installations, as for washers with a furnace, have to be allowed by the owner of the house, the land-lord, who seldom would do that... When electricity prices dropped after WW II. washers with electric heaters were available and the law was changed, that forbid to use washing machines in flats. This was forced by the selling of so called flat-fine machines like the HOOVER singel-tub or twin-tubs with pulsator, an american invention, or agitator! These machines with 220V/1,5-2,0KW heater-elements were safe for the kitchen or bathroom and needn't a 380V/3-phase circuit installation as for big wringer-washers with 6kw heater-elements, made for the use in laundry-rooms in the basement. During the Wirtschaftswunder-time after WW II. (thanks to the American support) Germany became wealthy again and the people could afford even automatic washers. Step by step the laundry-rooms disappeared during the 1960s-1970s and combos with 4,5-5,0 kg loads became popular - first FLs, then more and more space-saving H-Ax-TLs, and later the front-loaders again until today. What people do not like with TLs here today: they cannot stack them with the dryer! Ralf from Germany

Post# 161139 , Reply# 28 10/18/2006 at 15:50 (6,399 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *Of course Ralf!* I wouldn't do it for anything to let a washer like that working with the lid opened! It was a supposing situation from me... In fact I said to use the "fantasy", to imagine... I know it would be a traagedy if a child or an adult either put a hand on the rotating drum... By the way, thanks for the really interesting history of the washers you posted, specially concerning the Germany... About the technique of the h-axiTL I would say that there's no difference between here and there... at the end don't we call them generally EuroTL?!?! :-)) GoodBye, and thanks again for the precious informations! Diomede

Post# 161248 , Reply# 29 10/19/2006 at 05:55 (6,399 days old) by lederstiefel1 ()
Checkrate/Likes *Thanx* Thanx Diomede!!! When ever I can offer more information - just ask for it! Ralf

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