Using STPP



             




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Thread Number: 59278

Tag: Detergents and Additives


Using STPP
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Post# 818734   4/11/2015 at 08:49 (3,304 days old)
by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio )    
 

gpevas's profile picture
I have a question I know someone out there knows the answer to. I used STPP sodium tripolyphosphate in my Speed Queen wringer washer. I use Zote soap and Calgon all the time. I posted a Zote soap post a wole back and the term STPP came up. I bought a pound of it to try. I must say what a difference!!!!!!! It made my wash super clean and white!! What made me worried a bit is it cleaned the aluminum agitator that had spots to it. It made the aluminum agitator a darker color. Is this a chemical reaction? I read that phosphates are not good for the lakes and streams I live very close to,Lake Erie. I may not get more because of this but just had to try it. Please give your thought. Thanks Gary.......




Post# 818790 , Reply# 1   4/11/2015 at 13:20 (3,304 days old)
by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)    
 

How much did you use? It only takes a tablespoon or so to work. It shouldn't discolor your aluminum.

Post# 818793 , Reply# 2   4/11/2015 at 13:27 (3,304 days old)
by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio )    
 
Now I know

gpevas's profile picture
I used a half cup. I didn't know??

Post# 818805 , Reply# 3   4/11/2015 at 15:07 (3,304 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

The rule of thumb for STPP is to use about 1/3 STPP to 2/3 detergent or soap. By weight or volume, it's not that critical, but 1/2 cup sounds a bit excessive. I would add the STPP before a soap, so as to tie up any hard water minerals that might bind with the soap and cause soap scum. However I've added both simultaneously in moderately soft water with no problems.

 

Phosphates may darken aluminum. As long as you don't see any pitting, it should be ok.

 

The use of phosphates in residential laundry may be illegal in your area. Check first.

 


Post# 818849 , Reply# 4   4/11/2015 at 19:00 (3,304 days old)
by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)    
 

When determining how much STPP to use, you add enough to the water to make it feel slippery. That is "breaking" the water, an old term for conditioning the water. Depending on the number of gallons your washer holds and the hardness of the water, you might need close to a half cup. Then you add enough soap or detergent to make the suds. Even though you add additional washing product with each new load of laundry, you do NOT need to add more STPP. Since you are probably doing multiple loads in the wash water in your wringer, the water is probably just warm at the end of your washing and could be drained out onto your yard where the phosphates will help the grass eliminating your worry about adding phosphates to the lakes. Do not pour the water on any acid-loving plants.

Alkaline formulations will darken aluminum.

Post# 818857 , Reply# 5   4/11/2015 at 19:51 (3,304 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
sudsmaster, I had been

Thinking about premixing a bit of detergent with the stpp..are you saying that it would be best to continue adding the stpp first to the water? (Regular top loader) I have been adding about a tablespoon and i do get slippery water I just thought it would be convenient to pre mix..not that its much of a chore adding it separately. .lol .Thank You

Post# 818903 , Reply# 6   4/12/2015 at 04:14 (3,304 days old)
by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio )    
 
Thanks

gpevas's profile picture
I want to THANK all the people who responded to my question about STPP. I never even thought it might be illegal to use STPP in my area. It is a great suggestion to put the wash water on my lawn instead of letting it go down the drain thanks Turbomatic!!!!

Post# 818922 , Reply# 7   4/12/2015 at 07:43 (3,303 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
illegal to use stpp

I thought it was only illegal for manufacturers to put it into the detergent..anyone correct me if I'm wrong? I did do a small search and unless I missed it I couldn't find anything about using stpp at home being illegal. .thanks all

Post# 818933 , Reply# 8   4/12/2015 at 08:45 (3,303 days old)
by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)    
 

I think that it is banned in detergents, but I have to agree, I don't think it is illegal to possess or use.

Post# 818944 , Reply# 9   4/12/2015 at 09:38 (3,303 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
thank you tom

I really don't think it is so... I will continue to use it..at least on especially dirty clothes which I have an abundance of in the summer (6&7year old grandsons were raising) and I'm fussy about clothes being CLEAN..no doubt stpp helps the detergent work to its full capacity. .thanks Tom for your input. .Cheryl

Post# 818968 , Reply# 10   4/12/2015 at 13:54 (3,303 days old)
by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)    
 

You are more than welcome, Cheryl. We are here to help as well as have fun.

Have a good summer.

Post# 818992 , Reply# 11   4/12/2015 at 17:31 (3,303 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 

Is stpp safe to add to laundry detergent for people with sensitive skin? My son has very sensitive skin and I cannot use detergents with enzymes for his laundry. I use arm and hammer unscented. Now that spring is here he loves to play outside and gets very dirty. I was wondering if stpp can boost the detergent power, but stay skin friendly?

Post# 819009 , Reply# 12   4/12/2015 at 19:16 (3,303 days old)
by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)    
 

There is nothing about STPP that contains a fragrance or dye. Providing that you thoroughly rinse it from the fabrics, STPP, by itself, should not cause an allergic reaction. In fact, because STPP improves not only cleaning, but also rinsing, it has potential to better remove the detergent in the rinse cycle. If you add STPP to the wash water, you can use less detergent so there is less to rinse out.

Post# 819044 , Reply# 13   4/13/2015 at 05:11 (3,303 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Have said this numerous times and am here once again....

launderess's profile picture
When using soap for laundry softening chemicals go into the water *first*. You want to bind hard water minerals *before* the soap gets to them so the thing can do its job effectively without interference. Doing otherwise means soap will do what it does naturally, soften water.

Post# 819065 , Reply# 14   4/13/2015 at 08:37 (3,302 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
Thank you launderess

For your expert advice...I will continue adding the stpp first as what you've said makes logical sense..again thank you

Post# 819071 , Reply# 15   4/13/2015 at 09:56 (3,302 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

Maryland Environment Code 9-1501 et al.
1. Restrictions: A person may not use, sell, manufacture, or distribute for use or sale any cleaning
agent that contains more than 0.0% phosphorus by weight expressed as elemental phosphorus
except for an amount not exceeding 0.5% phosphorus that is incidental to manufacturing.
 

Definitions: "Cleaning agent" means a laundry detergent, dishwashing compound, household
cleaner, metal cleaner, degreasing compound, commercial cleaner, industrial cleaner, phosphate
compound or other substance that is used or intended to be used for cleaning purposes.


Post# 819083 , Reply# 16   4/13/2015 at 11:49 (3,302 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
guess that

Answers the question about using stpp at least in Maryland...and since stpp is not a *Cleaning Agent* maryland people are safe from breaking the law using it..the ban hasn't reached the level of consumers purchasing and using stpp in their homes..at least not yet in maryland...lol...or did I read that all wrong sudsmaster!

Post# 819085 , Reply# 17   4/13/2015 at 12:07 (3,302 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

I don't know how one could conclude that STPP is not a cleaning agent. Since it is a cleaning agent when used to help clean laundry or dishes, usually combination with another cleaning agent. And please note the Maryland law specifically mentions "phosphate compound" as a cleaning agent. STPP is without a doubt a phosphate compound.

 

As for states, most that regulate phosphate mention only the mfg, sale, distribution. However the following states also regulate the use of phosphates: Illinois, Maryland, Rhode Island, South Carolina, and Vermont. Check the link out for most information.

 

However, I doubt that anyone is going to get arrested for adding an ounce or two of STPP to one's laundry or dishwasher. But the laws appear to be on the books in these states. And the Maryland environmental code provides for up to $25,000 civil penalty for every day a violation occurs.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO sudsmaster's LINK

Post# 819087 , Reply# 18   4/13/2015 at 12:34 (3,302 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
I stand

Corrected. .I wasnt realizing stpp was a cleaning agent on Its own and I failed to read all you posted..guess I better look into pa laws and not tell people when they ask why my boys white tees always look so new..lol..I'm sorry sudsmaster

Post# 819088 , Reply# 19   4/13/2015 at 12:48 (3,302 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

Well, if you read the link I provided, you'll see that Pennsylvania is one of those states that doesn't specifically mention "use" in its regulation of phosphates. Thus I'd say that as long as you're not manufacturing, selling, or distributing, it would be legal there to add some STPP to your wash.

 

However I am not a lawyer nor do I portray one on TV. This should not be considered to be legal advice.

 


Post# 819099 , Reply# 20   4/13/2015 at 13:50 (3,302 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
thanks sudsmaster

For the info..and no I won't consider it legal advice..hehe..that would be my attorneys job and since I really don't want another bill this month I'm not calling him lol...but thank you again

Post# 819149 , Reply# 21   4/13/2015 at 19:57 (3,302 days old)
by Mich (Hells Kitchen - New York)    
 
One should always keep in mind..

mich's profile picture

That STPP is considered by the FDA to be a Food Additive. The Same goes for TSP as well. 

 

STPP is used heavily in Fish Packing & Processing. And TSP can even be found in Cheerios. 

 

The ingredient itself isn't banned or restricted. It's the way it's "mixed" and made into products that is restricted. So... Companies like SC Johnson or Procter & Gamble can't just throw a dash of the stuff into their products. 

 

Now. If STPP was being used on a massive level... perhaps knowingly by a dry cleaning chain or in a hospitality environment.  Fines would probably be imposed & perhaps, even legal action against a certain individual.  

 

However..

 

You've got to keep in mind. Farmers & Companies purchase these chemicals on massive scales, for use in meat packing, and industrial fertilization.  It's just not a industry with any oversight. 

 

I personally wouldn't worry or let it keep you up at night. No Police Department is going to investigate you.. for adding some phosphate into your laundry. They simply don't have the manpower or resources to even look into such a case. And that's assuming they wouldn't burst out laughing, being informed of the situation ;)

 

 


Post# 819161 , Reply# 22   4/13/2015 at 21:16 (3,302 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
just to be

On the safe side of the law...I'm going to keep fresh meat on hand..if I'm busted I will explain that my small 5 pound pail of stpp is simply to pack meat...lol. I can see the headlines now ..seriously I'm not worried here I will continue using when my laundry needs it. And Mich thanks for the info. By the way if I am arrested I will be in the prison laundry room working my fines off hehe

Post# 819550 , Reply# 23   4/16/2015 at 14:47 (3,299 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
stpp low density

I bought my stpp from the chem store..but I see it on amazon as low density is there a difference??

Post# 819625 , Reply# 24   4/17/2015 at 01:32 (3,299 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

No idea what "low density" means vis a vis STPP. Usually there's technical grade (OK for laundry) or food grade (better than needed for laundry). Maybe the low density is puffed up like rice krispies?

 


Post# 819633 , Reply# 25   4/17/2015 at 03:38 (3,299 days old)
by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio )    
 
Low density?

gpevas's profile picture
I also seen the two different types of STPP and avoided the low density. I can't believe the difference in how it cleaned my cloths. I put the water with STPP on my grass ect. I don't want to be responsible for contributing to Lake Erie having a alge bloom this summer. If any person knows the difference between the two STPP let us know.......PS. Thanks Laundress for telling us WHEN to use STPP, by the way never use tri sodium phosphate I did with Zote soap and had a BIG MESS...

Post# 819649 , Reply# 26   4/17/2015 at 06:18 (3,299 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
light density not low

Sorry I miss worded..on amazon its actually worded sodium tripolyphosphate light density tech grade ..ships from the general store..but I don't think The Chem store uses the words light density..thanks everyone

Post# 819684 , Reply# 27   4/17/2015 at 09:14 (3,298 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

Like most chemical powders, STPP is available in various particle densities, such as light, medium, and heavy. The light density powder occupies the most volume per unit weight. It is also the fastest dissolving. So, while it may be more bulky than the heavier particle density grades, it's probably the best choice for use in a washer where fast dissolution is desirable.

 

It's important to remember that despite the density differences, these different grades are essentially the same chemical: Na5P3O10. It's just that a pound of the light will contain more air spaces than pound of the heavy.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

 




This post was last edited 04/17/2015 at 10:28
Post# 819691 , Reply# 28   4/17/2015 at 09:42 (3,298 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
thank you

Rich..you gave me a answer I was wondering about..mixing the stpp into detergent and since I use detergent and not soap I will go ahead and do that after I figure out the ratio using a top loader with med water hardness well I'm guessing at the hardness..I wouldn't say its hard as a brick as I never have deposits in the tubs or sinks gotta remind myself to get a test kit..but thank you much Rich for your wisdom

Post# 819701 , Reply# 29   4/17/2015 at 10:16 (3,298 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
found answers

On the product site...stpp: the density refers to the granule size stpp can be light, light dense, or dense....now anyone know out of these 3 which one is best..lol thank you all

Post# 819706 , Reply# 30   4/17/2015 at 10:30 (3,298 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

Again, the light density STPP is probably the best for use in laundry.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 


Post# 819707 , Reply# 31   4/17/2015 at 10:32 (3,298 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

As a rule of thumb, if you mix a standard non-phosphated powdered laundry detergent with STPP, a good ratio to use is two parts detergent to one part STPP. This works out to 33% STPP by weight. It also works out to about 8% phosphorus element by weight, which is typical for older phosphated detergent formulations.


Post# 819753 , Reply# 32   4/17/2015 at 15:00 (3,298 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

Thank you Rich...I understand and I also recall another post of yours explaining this ratio but couldn't find it again...what is your take on premixing large batches..like 80 load box of powdered detergent with the stpp...my daughter in law wants to do that but I'm wondering if the stpp would hold up very long opening and closing the lid so often...I read somewhere the phosphates need to be kept from moisture ? Thanks for your help.

Post# 819799 , Reply# 33   4/17/2015 at 20:55 (3,298 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

You can get a large plastic lidded food storage container at many food service stores like Smart & Final, or at hardware/variety stores. These can be perfect for storing larger quantities of pre-mixed detergent formulations.

 

The larger plastic bins that some powdered detergents come in often can accommodate another 33% by weight of STPP.


Post# 819806 , Reply# 34   4/17/2015 at 21:32 (3,298 days old)
by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)    
 

But how can you be certain that you have mixed it evenly? What's so hard about adding a bit to the detergent in the measure before you put it in the machine?

Post# 819827 , Reply# 35   4/18/2015 at 02:06 (3,298 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

I use a thorough mixing technique.

 

Once thoroughly blended, it's very convenient to add the mixture to the washer, with one measure, and not have to worry about proportions.

 


Post# 819830 , Reply# 36   4/18/2015 at 03:11 (3,298 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
I'm curious..

stan's profile picture
I could see adding 33% by weight to soap (original question) but 33% added to detergent powder that already contains water softeners? I realize that the powdered detergents are non phosphated softeners? Wonder if that percentage should be increased a bit if using just Zote, Fels? Also since the detergent powders use sodium carbonate as the main softener.. How do the two (STPP and washing soda) get along together.

Post# 819846 , Reply# 37   4/18/2015 at 07:14 (3,297 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
In The Days Of Using Soap

launderess's profile picture
One generally chose one water softener or another. That is if going with the best (non-precipitating) such as phosphates (STPP or SHTP) you didn't need or wanted anything else. However if washing soda, borax or any of the other precipitating water softeners was all you had then there you were then.

Have a series of 1950's Consumer Reports Buying Guides (1950-1959 IIRC) and they reviewed laundry soaps vs. synthetic detergents every few years. In the reviews "built" soaps were listed along with whether they contained soda, borax or phosphates.

Fel's Naptha soap contains washing soda (old version)and a bunch of other ingredients. Fels Instant soap powder contained phosphates.

The vintage Persil soap powder in my stash claims not to contain soda. It did contain sodium silicate (the "sil" in Persil) which is an alkaline water softener and cleaning agent.

When it comes to synthetic laundry detergent powders however things are different.

You can make a very good product for cleaning laundry with just surfactants, and phosphates along with a few other chemicals. Besides dealing with hard water minerals phosphates bring many other properties. However with the increasing tree hugger movement to save waterways phosphate content was limited and or banned. Once this happened detergent makers had no choice but to turn to silicates, washing soda and borax along with a host of other chemicals to replace what phosphates did on their own.

Since the pure soap content of most laundry detergent powders is nil to none you don't have the same worries as using precipitating water softeners. Thus again a properly blended detergent powder with phosphates wouldn't cause the same worries as a pure soap product even with same.



Post# 819874 , Reply# 38   4/18/2015 at 12:11 (3,297 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

Even vintage detergents often contained both washing soda and STPP. The benefit of the washing soda is that it increases the pH more than STPP by itself. The washing soda became important as a way to hold the phosphate level to no more than 8% elemental phosphorus by weight.  Older formulations often also contained copious amounts of sodium sulfate, which has little to no function other than to bulk up the product and perhaps make it pour easier. "Ultra" formulations simply eliminate the sodium sulfate, with little to no functional impact, other than requiring ounces rather than cups for proper wash load dosing.

 

For HE or front loader machines, a potential advantage of "cutting" the detergent with STPP is that it can lower the amount of surfactant, which in turn lowers the sudsing, while maintaining maximum build/break/water softening capability. If one is concerned about the suds level being too low, one can always add more of the mix, say, 1/3 more than one usually might add. That way the proportions would be no different than if one were to add, say, 1 oz of original detergent and 1/2 oz of STPP, by weight. Do you have a suitable scale in your laundry room for that?

 

None of this, however, is all that critical. If one adds 20% or 40% STPP I doubt it will make much difference in the wash results. The important thing is to add enough of the total mix to loosen and suspend all the dirt and allow it to be rinsed away.

 

 

 


Post# 819879 , Reply# 39   4/18/2015 at 12:33 (3,297 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

So adding enough of the mix to suspend the soil would be trial and error when you first start this process..is that correct?? Also I'm assuming stpp could make detergent suds up more? Thank you sudsmaster..you've been a wealth of information on helping me understand this.....also thank you launderess your information is always helpful

Post# 819901 , Reply# 40   4/18/2015 at 16:02 (3,297 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Thank you

stan's profile picture
Laundress and Sudsmaster

Yes I do have a digital scale. I use it to make laundry soap. The formula for laundry soap and process is quite different for bath or complexion soap. The laundry soap is "built" so a certain extent.
I do use STPP (light density) when using a "soap" for laundry, as well as pure sodium percarbonate for whites when I'm not using LCB. However I generally do not premix, and add to the machine.
I realize that my methods would be considered "outmoded" by most, as I still pretreat stains with ammonia, glycerin, vinegar, peroxide, all the old time stuff! And don't rely on the machine and the surfactants to do everything. On rare occasions I still pre soak, pre wash ect if I think it's necessary.
I'm basically doing what Laundress posted up thread by pre treating the water first, then adding the soap, then the clothes. This has always made sense to me. I'm able to do this because of my TL automatic and my Maytag Wringer. Doubt the average person outside of our group would take the time, or do the planning, I'm able to get away with this because I have control over the machines operations, and the rinse temperatures.
I was interested I the 33% STPP by weight and the intermixing with Washing soda, as these could also be added to the "laundry soap" formula during the making of, for someone who uses a FL and has no way to pretreat.
Thank you both again, and thank you Gary for raising the questions.
Good thread

Post# 819913 , Reply# 41   4/18/2015 at 17:16 (3,297 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

I have not noticed that STPP makes synthetic detergent suds up more. That is probably because synthetic detergent surfactants are not susceptible to inactivation for hard water/soil minerals.

 

It might aid in suds level of natural soaps because it can prevent creation of soap scum which inactivates soap. But then washing soda would do much the same, except with a precipitate as the product.

 

In my experience home laundry is a trial and error process. The amounts listed on the products are just a guideline, and even those say add more or less depending. Which is a reason why I don't care much for gel packs and tablets for laundry purposes. Although they do seem to work OK for dishwashers, especially those with multiple pre-rinses to remove as much food/grease/etc as possible before the addition of the detergent.

 


Post# 819921 , Reply# 42   4/18/2015 at 18:08 (3,297 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
stan

When you make your own laundry soap..is it the same recipe as on the web..fels, washing soda, and borax? My son made the recipe from the web..I couldn't understand how such a small amount of each ingredient would clean the clothes and how the soap would rinse out but my son and his wife loved it..they now use tide I don't know why they switched. Also I also pretreat when needed but not so much anymore. I do almost always do a long soak on whites..I try to save whites for evening than I throw them in on 125 degrees with tide with bleach and biz let them agitate a few min and shut them off till mor ing..I also have a top loader..I use the same routine for dish towels.your right about the average person not taking the time..I am often made the brunt of family jokes about my laundry routine and detergent fetish lol most of these people throw laundry and detergent in and return for it when they remember but these same people have no problem running to me when there favorite textile needs help.lol could you explain the homemade laundry soap unless that requires a different thread...thank you

Post# 819967 , Reply# 43   4/19/2015 at 00:51 (3,297 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Mamapinky

stan's profile picture
I've never understood the online recipe. As you say, not enough going in to clean anything.
So No, I'm not using the online version. I'm making the actual soap bar. My formula for the soap is based on a 100 year old formula that I've enhanced, and when used for laundry, I still pretreat or precondition the water as well. This particular soap is only used for laundry, scrubbing floors ect. Completly different than a bath or complexion soap.
I have used the Zote (original question) with STPP but didn't care for the scent or the optical Brighteners contained therein.
And mine cleans better LOL

Post# 819971 , Reply# 44   4/19/2015 at 04:55 (3,297 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Stpp + Synthetic Detergents ='s Froth

launderess's profile picture
Two things come to my mind.

One the phosphates are releasing trapped soap/detergent residue from fabrics which when combined with whatever amount was added to the wash is producing excess froth. Depending upon the amount of residue it could be possible to launder with just phosphates to strip out that residue. In other words there is enough detergent left in the wash for cleaning.

With some liquid detergents especially those laden with soap have had issues with using STPP. This happens often with the various liquid, gel and pod detergents one has from Europe. Since water in our area is already very soft enough one can reduce dosage of most European products have stopped adding STPP to those loads.

Post# 819972 , Reply# 45   4/19/2015 at 04:58 (3,297 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Hey Stan

launderess's profile picture
Speaking of soap did you ever use that P&G or Persil I sent awhile back?

Post# 819974 , Reply# 46   4/19/2015 at 05:06 (3,297 days old)
by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio )    
 
Stan

gpevas's profile picture
You talk about a good soap formula can you share it? I use Zote soap grated and add calgon the new version with zeolites. I may have misspelled that? Or I use STPP which I can't believe how it get items REALLY clean. I have very oily skin and hair so my pillow cases and sheets do not get clean in detergents. That's why I tried Zote soap and it gets the oily residue left by detergents.

Post# 819993 , Reply# 47   4/19/2015 at 08:05 (3,296 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
suds

No launderess I don't usually have a suds issue in this top loader water hog unless I use cheer color guard powder and for some reason that gives me 3 inches of suds. I usually buy HE powdered detergent and I'm not a fan of liquid but I do have some including the new persil liquid. You brought up a question I've had..using stpp to strip the detergent. .I have a 6yo with severe asthma and I'm always concerned that his laundry is rinsed well so 2 rinses always in the water hog for him..do you think it would be beneficial if the first rinse I add stpp? I also always use warm water rinses. Thank you much Cheryl

Post# 820028 , Reply# 48   4/19/2015 at 12:43 (3,296 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Cheryl

stan's profile picture
Don't want to answer for Laundress.. She'l be along to do that herself, but I would say yes. Adding a little STPP to the first rinse will assist in rinsing.
Removing soap or detergent residue can be achieved with Washing soda as well (just have to rinse well) I discovered this when I didn't have STPP. A friend of mine had a washer that had gotten gunked up..who knows why.. I think it was because she only used liquid detergent, never use washing soda, STPP ect. Anyway she called me in a panic! all I had was Washing soda. I went over, took the cabinet off to see what was between the inner and out tub! Short if taking it apart, I decided to filled that baby with hot water put in a little more than a cup of Washing Soda and let it rip on a long cycle (no clothes) After A minute or two of agitation, it started sudsing and we were able to see nastiness (is that a word) breaking loose from the tub. And we watched what came out of the drain hose
(it emptied into a laundry sink) after..the machine was sparkling clean, with no odor. You'd have thought she was a soap user, but she wasn't. I told her that she either need to occasionally add either STPP, or a little Washing Soda with her liquid. Or occasionally use powdered detergent and hot water.
Gary, I can send you a bar if you want? I wouldn't recommend trying to make this yourself unless you've had some experience with making hot process soap. If you have, and want to spend the time, I'll send you the formulas and method :)

Post# 820029 , Reply# 49   4/19/2015 at 12:46 (3,296 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Almost forgot Laudress!

stan's profile picture
No Dear I haven't tried the vintage Persil. It's on display over the Maytag, but I've been tempted!

Post# 820067 , Reply# 50   4/19/2015 at 17:35 (3,296 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

Stan your friends washer reminded me of my roper top loader. .I inherited it so to speak from my mother along with her home in 2009 the washer was already in place so I gave my whirlpool away..well the washer was fine until last summer I noticed the laundry comming out with slimy lint a lot of it...so I searched on the web and learned how to take the drum out so I could clean between ..oh my gosh what a mess I'm not joking when I say I scraped off cup after cup of slimy goo and it was evergwhere..than it was scrubbed with chlorine bleach it was a major job and I will never do it again. I think this washer was purchased in 2001and my mother only ever used original powdered tide and chlorine bleach several timesa month she would have never used soap or even lliquid detergent but she was a heavy fabric softener user. I plan to get rid of this roper next year because of fill up issues it only fills half way for wash and rinse cycles even if its set on large load so I've had to hold the knob in between load size to fill up I've had to do it so often it now sticks if I'm not carefull and indeed flooded once what a nightmare that was.ok I'm done rambling. .lol

Post# 820115 , Reply# 51   4/20/2015 at 02:54 (3,296 days old)
by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio )    
 
Stan

gpevas's profile picture
I would love to try your bar soap! I made soap in my high school years over 30 years ago. Let me know how much. I have learned so much from this forum and met some nice people also!!!

Post# 820177 , Reply# 52   4/20/2015 at 15:52 (3,295 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Gary

stan's profile picture
Email me a address and I'll send you a bar to try, with instructions for use.
BTW I know what you mean about soap working on oily residue, better than some detergents. You wouldn't think so but it dose!

Post# 820180 , Reply# 53   4/20/2015 at 16:09 (3,295 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
I'm confused

I know I'm new here but I was reading the posts here all winter..I'm sure I read discussions about soap and its effects on washers which wernt good and about how hard it is to rinse out of textiles but maybe I've misunderstood something along the way...than I've seen talk on the web about soap in the laundry clogging pipes..so I am confused..can someone please help me understand..thanks a bunch everyone

Post# 820256 , Reply# 54   4/21/2015 at 01:15 (3,295 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Cheryl

stan's profile picture
Sorry It is confusing.

Others with modern FL machine will tell you that it's not a good idea to use soap with these machines, and their right!
Their not designed to handle soap. The mechanical action of a FL is for the clothes to be lifted up and then fall onto themselves, that's the agitation.
Using soap in such a machine would soften the blow so to speak, and hinder effective cleaning.
Theres no way to precondition the water with a FL, unless there is already soft water entering the machine to start with. So I would think that soap should only be used as a pre treater or stain stick only.
Someone who has a TL will have more to say on the subject (I don't have one, and ain't aiming to get one)
But the original topic here was a Speed Queen Wringer Washer, Zote Soap, and STPP.
With a wringer or even a older top loader the operator can control operation, mainly the wash and rinse temps. And to tell you the truth..stop the machine, reach in and feel the water, and look in and see what happening.
Gary's wringer dose not have a inner or outer tub for soap to get caught between. And as long as he's using that machine, and the water softener (in this case it's STPP) pretreats and rinses well, he should achieve acceptable results.
A word of caution here..soap will set certain stain, coffee, tea, wine ect. So these should be dealt and removed before contact with soap.
It's worth noting that not all soaps are created equal, same can be said for detergents.
For the most part their are only two "laundry soaps" that are readily available from the store...The Zote, and Fels Naptha. The formula for Fels has been changed a few times since it's conception, but is still considered "built " to a certain degree. The Zote is a little more basic, but dose contain optical brighteners for fabric.
When soap is held up to modern detergents, they lack the the enzymes, oxygen bleaches, water softeners, and a host of other ingredients to achieve perfect laundry results.
However with the right soap the right machine, the right water conditions and used correctly, beautiful results can be achieved.

Post# 820354 , Reply# 55   4/21/2015 at 17:35 (3,294 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
stans explanation

Was very helpful to me thank you stan...you worded it so I understood exactly..I will not be trying this lol but its very interesting.again thank you much. Cheryl

Post# 820386 , Reply# 56   4/21/2015 at 22:00 (3,294 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Early Commercial Washing Machines

launderess's profile picture
Were almost universally then as now H-axis types and they managed with soap. Indeed there was no other choice since modern detergents didn't arrive until post WWII. Even then most testing showed in soft water soap gave equal to better cleaning compared to "detergents". In hard water things were different and that is where detergents edged out soap.

Depending upon the cycle and or soiling the froth created by soap can be controlled not to impeded (much) the washing process in a front loader.

Have said it before and am here to say so again; to use soap for laundering you need plenty of *HOT* and *SOFT* clean water. If the soap is dissolved well before being introduced to the washer *and* the water is kept hot enough to prevent it from congealing then part of the problem is solved. Again as one has stated often you need several *HOT* or at least warm rinses to flush out soap. If you remove all or most traces of soap before introducing cool or cold water you diminish much of the gunking up problems.

Keeping the washer clean and free of residue is the same as commercial laundries did back in the day; you have to clean out the machine. This normally involved hot to boiling water and the use of an acid to dissolve scum. On pony washers they also opened the door and took a brush or stuff broom and "scrubbed" off the gunk.

Post# 820390 , Reply# 57   4/22/2015 at 00:24 (3,294 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Those early commercial washers

stan's profile picture
used more water in comparison than a modern at home FL machine.
Its been said that.. Yes... Rinsing is crucial when using soap, as well as softening or pretreating the water, thats a given, but I've read post after post with complaints about Tide and other detergents not rinsing easy either.
I've said this before, and will say again, besides water conditions, the rinse ability of soap, good or bad can be caused by how the soap was created... What fats were used, and in what percentages, was all fat reacted (AKA lye concentrations) Was the soap hot or cold processed, was the soap purified, were additives or builders used in the formula... All this has a effect on how soap performs as well as how well it rinses away.

Post# 820432 , Reply# 58   4/22/2015 at 08:37 (3,293 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
a big thank you

To stan and Launderess...for helping me to understand the use of soap in laundry. This has all been so interesting again thank you..Cheryl

Post# 821490 , Reply# 59   4/29/2015 at 20:25 (3,286 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Just looked at my vintage bottle of Fresh Start Detergent

launderess's profile picture
Mentions non-ionic surfactants (low suds cleaning), protease and phosphates. Not a word about washing soda but then again phosphorus content is 14.7% equal to 5.7% per one quarter cup of product.

Post# 821506 , Reply# 60   4/30/2015 at 00:49 (3,286 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Off topic

stan's profile picture
Dear
What happened with that over scented Persil! I sent you? Have you used it. Has the scent faded?

Post# 821511 , Reply# 61   4/30/2015 at 02:11 (3,286 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

I remember back inthe 50's my Mom made her own soap (from bacon drippings, mostly, and it was evil smelling brown soap) and then used to in the Bendix. That was OK until my brother attempted to help out by adding even more soap. Cue in the footage of Mom running to the washer on its big cement block in the basement, trying to stem the tide of suds emerging from every washer orifice.... LOL...

 

In any case, I've grated Ivory Snow, added some STPP first to the washer, and then the grated Snow, and had relatively good results with manageable sudsing in the Neptune 7500 as long as the dosage was sparing.

 


Post# 821514 , Reply# 62   4/30/2015 at 03:50 (3,286 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Ivory Soap

stan's profile picture
I can see with the addition of STPP and use of Ivory Soap, that acceptable results could be achieved. However it's important to point out the lye concentration I mentioned up thread. Since Ivory is in fact made to be used on skin, it means that at the very least, the amount of NaOH used, is only what's required to produce a bar suitable for bathing...and no more. Last time I looked at Ivory, the glycerin remains intact.
For a true laundry soap, all fat and or oils should be reacted, (slightly over reacted would be better) then during processing the raw soap should be purified with a salt solution. This causes the glycerin (a by product of soap) to be extracted, along with some other impurities (spent lye) to be removed. What's left is a pure or purified soap. Additives such as STPP, Borax, Soda, carbolic acid, stoddard solvents, bluing agents (the list can go on) can be added to assist or customize the soap. Just those two adjustments (reacting all fat, and purifying) can make huge difference in how the same basic formula will perform for laundry use.
To my knowledge there is only one manufacture that takes the time to do the first two steps mentioned. Zote, Fels, and Ivory are not taking those steps. At least not these days. And while I have used them for one thing or another, I have never considered them to be "pure laundry soap" but that just me.
Without going into a lot detail, its worth noting that each fat or oil contains its own fatty acid make up and no two are exactly alike. Those differences can be used to the soap makers advantage. The point I'm making here, is that the selection of the fats used to start with, play a part in how a laundry soap will clean, and rinse from fabric.
When you take into consideration all of this, it's not much of a stretch to believe in the possibilities.

Post# 821515 , Reply# 63   4/30/2015 at 03:52 (3,286 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Persil scent has not faded.

launderess's profile picture
None of them do, am using boxes of the 1950's/early 1960's "Persil 59" and it still packs a whiff.

Actually shifted those boxes of Persil a week ago when taking the Hoover TT out of storage for a quick wash. My supply of laundry detergents is so large now things are stashed everywhere including using that wash tub of the Hoover. Well it is sitting there empty otherwise. *LOL*

Still have the first opened box using and yes it still has scent. Think after awhile one simply becomes immune and no longer notices.

Love the scent of Ivory Snow soap powder, but alas nothing more than small amounts can go into the Miele or AEG. Otherwise each protest to the amount of froth created. Pity really as the scent is just to die for.

Post# 821517 , Reply# 64   4/30/2015 at 04:24 (3,286 days old)
by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio )    
 
Ivory snow scent!!

gpevas's profile picture
I have to chime in and AGREE with Laundress I also love the scent of Ivory Snow soap which is no longer made. I have a couple of boxes unopened and a box that is half empty of Ivory Snow soap but the powder is light brown colored. I wonder if it's ok to launder with?? Anyone used older laundry soap not detergent that turned an off color?

Post# 821523 , Reply# 65   4/30/2015 at 06:03 (3,286 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
If Washing With The Hoover TT Wasn't Such A Bother

launderess's profile picture
Would use Ivory Snow or any of the other pure soaps in my stash in that for a wash day.

Using soap that has gone "brown".

I say try it with a small bucket wash and see what happens, that is what I say. If it the soap still creates froth and cleans well there you are then..

Post# 821530 , Reply# 66   4/30/2015 at 07:15 (3,285 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

Likely the brown is from oxidized fatty chains in the soap. It probably has reduced cleaning ability.

 

As for the glycerine, I was under the impression that Ivory Soap doesn't have any. I might be wrong, though. As for the NaOH, the STPP should provide sufficient alkalinity to for wash purposes.

 


Post# 821542 , Reply# 67   4/30/2015 at 10:53 (3,285 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
The alkalinity

stan's profile picture
Of the soap it self plus the alkalinity STPP would be sufficient. But NaOH should be gone. The NaOH is only used to cause the chemical reaction. After completion there should be none left, its a entirely new substance and is neither oil or NaOH. The correct weights of each, and correct math calculations related to the fats of choice, are crucial for this.
Gary when soap ages that many years the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will eventually cause the soap to break down to a simpler compound of soda ash. If the fats that were used to make the soap in the first place were not all reacted, then over time The unreacted fats will go rancid. And the soap will turn sort of a orange color and smell off. More than likely yours has picked up the color of the inside of the box. If it was rancid you'd know.
I'd try as Laundrees has suggested and see how it suds, and if there is a rancid smell (doubt there will be) the cleaning ability may have diminished as Sudsmaster has said.

Post# 821553 , Reply# 68   4/30/2015 at 12:54 (3,285 days old)
by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)    
 

supersuds's profile picture
I had a small box of vintage Duz (circa 1950) whose contents had turned yellowish brown, but it seemed okay in use. I'm not much of a soap user and am surprised when it cleans anything, though, lol. No offense, Stan!

Currently working on a box of Super Suds of about the same age and it is still white, or fairly white anyway.

Post# 821558 , Reply# 69   4/30/2015 at 14:30 (3,285 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 

Can someone please advise me how much stpp to put into my standard awn542 speed queen washer. On a full load with the water level to the top holes in the washer how much stpp and detergent should I add? I just now put in, a tablespoon of stpp first, then added tide till line one. The water does not feel slippery. Am I doing this right? I just got the stpp yesterday.
Thank you.

Post# 821566 , Reply# 70   4/30/2015 at 15:04 (3,285 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
No offense taken LOL

stan's profile picture
Certain soaps have there limitations, your 1950 DUZ may be detergent?
esty: you might find out from your local water Dept how many grains hard your water is, and find out how many gallons your washer fills up at that level. Then a calculation could be made.

HTH

Post# 821573 , Reply# 71   4/30/2015 at 15:53 (3,285 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
No One Can Give You A "Standard" Amount Of STPP

launderess's profile picture
Since things will vary according to your local water mineral content and a few other factors.

Will say one tablespoon in any standard top loading washing machine is a tad low IMHO. For a front loader it might be fine but you are going to have to step up your game.

Post# 821582 , Reply# 72   4/30/2015 at 17:52 (3,285 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Calgon

stan's profile picture
Use to give a standard amount! The old box said to use a 1/2 cup for a TL machine. LOL

Post# 821584 , Reply# 73   4/30/2015 at 18:24 (3,285 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was asking for an amount of stpp in my standard speed queen washer. Not a standard amount of stpp. Just thought maybe someone out there who uses a standard washer and stpp could give me some guidance. I guess it goes by my water hardness. I am new to using stpp, so please pardon my ignorance.
Thank you all.

Post# 821586 , Reply# 74   4/30/2015 at 18:43 (3,285 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

If I'm not mistaken, vintage Calgon that contained STPP was not 100% STPP. It was more like 50/50 STPP plus washing soda.

 

For a top load washer I'd probably add 1-2 oz of STPP. More, or less, depending on water hardness and laundry soil level.


Post# 821588 , Reply# 75   4/30/2015 at 18:58 (3,285 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
esty

Please don't take offense..many people here are real experts in different ways (exclude me lol) ..I am just learning about stpp myself thanks to the kindness of the people here...I will try to help you as I also have a standard top loader. ..I decided to premix my stpp/detergent it just gave me a chance to play lol..I followed Sudsmasters recommendations up there^^^ and mixed 1part stpp to 2parts unphosphated detergent. .how much you need to add will depend on water hardness and soil level ect..I start with 1/4 cup for a full load of dirty play clothes (I can almost see everyone with a HE machine gasp at 1/4 cup lol)..but our water hogs usually need more than 2tablespoons. ..you will have to play around with it..as each load can vary...you will find your clothes cleaner and they rinse better.I hope I helped at least a bit.. feel free to ask questions everyone here is really very helpful. Take care Cheryl

Post# 821606 , Reply# 76   4/30/2015 at 21:07 (3,285 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 

Thank you for the responses for using stpp in my top loader.

Cheryl, thank you so much for all your imput. I really appreciate the advice being that you have used it in a top loader non he machine. Tomorrow I will be doing a full load of dirty pre school clothes and I will add 1/4 cup as per your advice. Do I add less detergent than usual? I normally use till line one of arm and hammer unscented on my children's clothing, being that they are allergic to enzymes. I am looking for a way to boost the cleaning power without having to use oxyclean. Do you find by using stpp that you don't have to pretreat every single stain? Also, do you add the stpp first, mix and then add the detergent?
Thank you so much Cheryl for offering to answer my questions.

Post# 821611 , Reply# 77   4/30/2015 at 21:33 (3,285 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Beth

stan's profile picture
Don't want to answer for Cheryl, shel be back. I would say yes, decrease the amount if detergent.

Sudsmaster, IIRC vintage Calgon contained STPP and sodium hexametaphosphate. I remember this only because someone was throwing a fit about sodium hexametaphosphate being in Hawaiian Punch!

Post# 821614 , Reply# 78   4/30/2015 at 22:05 (3,285 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Original Calgon

launderess's profile picture
In the sliver foil boxes was STPP and SHTP. It later became various ratios of STPP and washing soda and or whatever after bans on phosphates came into force. You had to read the code on the top of the box to see if the product contained phosphates or not.

Today's Calgon powder has nil phosphates in order for one product to be sold in all fifty states. This predates the recent ban on phosphates. IIRC the powder is Zeolites and other substances. with the liquid being sodium citrate.

Calgon is short for Calcium Be Gone, which is what the product was sold as for everything that needed "soft" water. Being the 1940's this would be a vast number of things powered by steam boilers. Everything from locomotives to ships. Calgon was also sold for use in commercial and residential steam boilers (heating). Finally it was also marketed for use in commercial dishwashing and laundry then that trickled down to domestic.

Two things helped kill sales of Calgon; ships and locomotives moved to diesel power and detergents began to replace soaps for cleaning especially laundry. It didn't help that makers of dishwasher and laundry detergents built their products with phosphates so you didn't need to add a separate product. On many packages of vintage laundry powders you see that blurb about not adding *packaged water softeners* in hard water conditions; but to use slightly more product instead.

Post# 821621 , Reply# 79   5/1/2015 at 00:41 (3,285 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Sorry Beth

stan's profile picture
I meant to answer the other part of your questions? IMHO yes you still need to pretreat certain stains, even when using STPP. And general rules still apply for wash temps according to fabrics and soil levels.
You also asked if one needs to "add the STPP first mix, then add detergent"
Id say yes to that too. (But that just me)
I fill the machine and wait for agitation, add STPP, continue to agitate for a min or so. Then I add the detergent, and wait another min before adding clothes.
I still think its a good idea to find out how hard you water actually is. If it's not to hard...for no other reason other than to not waste your STPP by over dosing.


HTH

Post# 821638 , Reply# 80   5/1/2015 at 07:21 (3,284 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 

Thank you stan for taking the time to answer all my questions. I really appreciate it. I will try to find out my water hardness level, however since I don't know how to calculate it I will get back and ask once I find out.

Thanks again.

Post# 821644 , Reply# 81   5/1/2015 at 07:59 (3,284 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
esty

Stan has given you good advice...but I wanted to clarify something..I have my stpp and laundry detergent mixed together. .bulk style lol. I used a bucket with a tight fitting lid and if I add 10 cups of detergent I add 5 cups stpp stir well and its ready to go, but you don't have to do this you sure can add it to your washer separately. As for pretreating I would say yes expecially since you are using enzyme free detergent. I pretreat once in awhile not always but I use enzymes and I do long soaks with heavy soils or stains. Yes you will probably find you can use less detergent when using stpp. You will also notice the clothes rinse much cleaner removing more of the detergent. You may be able to contact your water supplier and get your water hardness..however when I called mine they said they don't have that information so I still don't know mine. I doubt mine is hard hard since my dishwasher is almost 20years old and the washer is 14years and they are both going strong..I think if I had hard water the deposits would have already destroyed the appliances and I would find the deposits in the screen filters in the facets. ..course this isn't a scientific set in stone answer lol.I did use a test strip I purchased at walmart in the pool section it showed soft water but gave me no number and I haven't a clue if its reliable it may only be saying I have soft enough water for a pool..lol. but to answer your question. ..I would add an ounce or two of stpp to the wash water..agate a minute and feel the water if it feels slippery you know you have adden enough..good luck. Cheryl

Post# 821645 , Reply# 82   5/1/2015 at 08:22 (3,284 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 

Thank you Cheryl for all your advice as well. I truly appreciate it. I do also stop and soak on heavily soiled loads. I guess you are using a powdered detergent if you are able to premix. I am using a liquid so I guess I can't premix. Just curious what detergent you are using? I do use liquid tide on my husband's and older son's clothing. Just not my little ones. They get a rash from any enzyme detergent I have tried. Even a free and clear one. So I guess you feel your clothing comes out cleaner with stpp even though you are using a detergent with enzymes. I started using Persil pearls for whites on my husband's and older son's white loads. I do add some oxyclean to that, soak a while and get amazing results! I just feel that the arm and hammer unscented doesn't cut through dirty clothing well. I have to pretreat every little stain and let sit a while, then rinse it out in the sink before putting it in the washing machine.
Thanks again so much,
Esty

Post# 821650 , Reply# 83   5/1/2015 at 08:50 (3,284 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 

Ok. I got the water level hardness for my area. It's 3-4 grains per gallon, and 60-70 parts per million. Anyone know how to interpret that I would appreciate it. Can anyone advise now on how much stpp to add to my top loader speed queen?
Thanks again to everyone!

Post# 821651 , Reply# 84   5/1/2015 at 09:06 (3,284 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
esty

You may regret asking me what detergent I use lol I have a lot so I will just name the few I use regularly, and yes I do prefer powder but I have a few liquids I use occasionally.
Powder
Tide with bleach or persil pearls with a shot of biz
for whites and dish towels
Tide free and clear pods for my asthmatic grandson
Gain lavender with a shot of biz for bedding
Sears (green box for brights
Ariel color and style for darks
Ecover sunny day for delicates (but can't find anymore)
I do switch up and use others at times as I know I have at least 50 different ones but these are the ones I use the most. I hope you have good results with the addition of stpp. Cheryl

Post# 821667 , Reply# 85   5/1/2015 at 11:42 (3,284 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Beth

stan's profile picture
Glad you got that info. That's not too hard. Now do you know how many gallons your washer uses for a fill ? If not can you approximate?

Post# 821675 , Reply# 86   5/1/2015 at 13:22 (3,284 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 
hi stan

I just looked it up on speed queens website. The average water consumption per load is 24.3 gallons. I guess each time it fills is about 12 gallons. I have no idea how to do the calculation for the stpp. Would you know how its done? My daughter's load just went into the dryer. I used 2 ounces of stpp and a little less than line one on the arm and hammer. The load came out very nice and clean! I even had a pair of white cotton tights that had different stains on it. I didn't pretreat that pair on purpose to see how it comes out. All the stains are gone and everything came out nice and bright. I am very pleased with the results. Thank you Stan and Carroll for all your help.

Post# 821677 , Reply# 87   5/1/2015 at 13:40 (3,284 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Beth

stan's profile picture
No need for me to do the math then! If that worked, then there you have it.
The old saying sometimes rings true
"If it ain't broke don't fix it"

Post# 821701 , Reply# 88   5/1/2015 at 20:02 (3,284 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
beth

Your welcome glad I could help. Have you done anymore loads? What were the results let us know.How many pounds of stpp did you order..I'm asking because you will never again be happy in the laundry room without it, lol it really does help a lot..take care Cheryl


Post# 821734 , Reply# 89   5/2/2015 at 04:55 (3,284 days old)
by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio )    
 
STPP ?

gpevas's profile picture
I want to ask does anyone know how long STPP last after the factory bag,bucket or other original container is opened? I read that humid air will destroy or change the STPP into trisodium phosphate. Which I tried in a wash load and had VERY bad results!!! I just found out about STPP and been buying a pound at a time fearing it would degrade. Any help would be appreciated.

Post# 821738 , Reply# 90   5/2/2015 at 06:44 (3,284 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
stpp/moisture

Moisture will change stpp that's why its important to keep it away from damp areas..I put mine in triple ziplock bags being careful to let the air out of each than I put it in a space storage bag the kind you use a vacume to extract all air and I store mine in a closet away from kitchen and bathrooms. I do have some of my detergents premixed with the stpp in containers with tight fitting lids so I don't have to be opening the stpp all the time. Cheryl

Post# 821799 , Reply# 91   5/2/2015 at 18:43 (3,283 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Gary

stan's profile picture
A container like this that closes, and you be fine.



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Post# 821806 , Reply# 92   5/2/2015 at 20:31 (3,283 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
hi stan

That's the type container I have for my tide with bleach, but for all my other detergents I'm using large wide mouth canning jars with lids I think I have 51 now I only have a few detergentsi use daily but sometimes I like to switch em up and figured canning jars allow me to have some of each at hand.
Also I love your washer I seen a nice pic of it in another post with lots of soap froth...I would love a washer like that but I haven't the space of course my family doesn't understand why I would want to go to the extra work when automatics are so much easier..lol take care Cheryl

Post# 821818 , Reply# 93   5/2/2015 at 21:58 (3,283 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 
Hi, Cheryl

I actually did not do any other loads yet. Saturday is my day off from laundry. I was so happy with the results however I had to re-rinse everything once they were dried. As I was folding the laundry my hands started to feel very irritated as if a burning feeling. I realized that I probably put too much in. I put in equal amounts of detergent and stpp, when actually the stpp should be half the amount of detergent. I normally use till line one of any detergent. What do you think, I should use now? Less than line one of liquid detergent and half of stpp? It would be so much easier to premix it. What do do when you use a liquid detergent?
Also, I store my stpp in an old oxyclean container. I am thinking after reading the other comments, that maybe it's not tight enough. I bought a 5 lb bag. I put the remainder away in the same double bag it came in. I ordered it from Amazon. I am just thinking back to my mother's detergent boxes she used to buy back in the days before the ban. She had them sitting on a shelf in the basement next to her washer. It was damp down there at times. I don't remember her having a problem with the detergents. Maybe because she used them up fast enough. What about everyone who has vintage detergents in their houses? Does it get ruined?
Thanks again for all your help! Its much appreciated.

Post# 821833 , Reply# 94   5/2/2015 at 23:40 (3,283 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Cheryl

stan's profile picture
That container was a 4lb container of STPP from Soapgoods. If it's good enough for them to put it in, I figured it was good enough for me to keep it in.
Beth. Something doesn't sound right here! Was the 2 ounces you used, by weight or volume? Either way I can't possibly see how this would cause a allergic reaction. I have heard if allergies to dyes, perfumes, and optical Brightners, but never to STPP. Are you sure you got STPP and not TSP? Did you use a fabric softener, or a dryer sheet? More of a chance to have allergic reaction to those!
The Arm&Hammer liquid is something you've been using so ??
Without doing any math, I'd say that with your water and the number of gallons that goes into the machine for a full load you should need more STPP than the little scoop that come with the OxiClean. It also cause me to wonder if your machine doesn't rinse well, or you over loaded it.
Regardless of all that, if you have someone in the house with sensitive skin in the house, it's always a good idea to do a second rinse.

Post# 821836 , Reply# 95   5/2/2015 at 23:55 (3,283 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Sorry Beth

stan's profile picture
That was a type O
Meant to say that "you shouldn't need more than the little scoop from the OxiClean container!

Post# 821837 , Reply# 96   5/3/2015 at 00:21 (3,283 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 
Hi Stan

I didn't use the oxyclean scoop. I am just using the 3 pound oxyclean container that I used up a little while ago to store the stpp. I actually used the two ounce scoop that my stpp came with. I used a full scoop. Till line one of my detergent is also two ounces. The load was not overloaded. I am careful about that. According to some people even on this group, they feel that the speed queens do not rinse well. My hands normally dont react when I fold laundry. I actually rinsed everything through twice again and then I was fine. Everything else I used was exactly the same. My daughter was wearing clothes today and pajamas tonight that were washed in the stpp, and I can't get over the difference it makes. I called up my best friend who lives upstate NY and has well water which is very hard and told her to get some also. She is excited to try it.
Thanks again!

Post# 821840 , Reply# 97   5/3/2015 at 01:21 (3,283 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Beth

stan's profile picture
Out of curiosity, whats a reason you're using the arm and Hammer liquid detergent. Is it scent and dye free?
I haven't heard about the Speed TL Queen washer's rinsing poorly before? I assumed they were well engineered? Perhaps there is a mechanical problem. You might want to pose that question in the Deluxe or Imperial section depending on its age.
The only other thing I can think of is that since you've been a liquid detergent user, and possibly a cold water user, you may have some build up in your outer tub.
If you think that's possible, then you may want to try cleaning out the machine by filling it with HOT water, allow it to go into agitation and add a cup to a cup and a half of super washing soda, set to longest cycle, allow it to go through a full cycle. If you do this. And your able to see in, and or what drains out, you might be surprised at what was hiding.

Post# 821842 , Reply# 98   5/3/2015 at 03:50 (3,283 days old)
by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio )    
 

gpevas's profile picture
I want to say to ESTY when I first started to use STPP it cleaned my washer and cloths I think there might have been old detergents in your washer and it may have been in the rinse water (old detergent that is ) just a thought. I would use the hottest water possible in the wash and STPP and let that goe a cycle. Should clean any old detergent especially if you used cold or even warn water. I am a hot water washing person. I hate cold water rinses but that what our government want us to use. With my wringer I control how hot the rinse water is.

Post# 821853 , Reply# 99   5/3/2015 at 06:08 (3,283 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 
stan and gary

Thanks so much for the advice. You may have a point there. My washer is fairly new, however there still may be a build up. I am using the unscented arm and hammer as I mentioned above for my kids with sensitive skin. I use tide liquid for the rest and Persil pearls for the whites which is amazing.
I also use warm water washes and rinses. My plumber actually installed an interesting hook up with a "y" brass garden attachment, put onto my hot water inlet and a "y" hose on the cold water side with a back flow preventer which gives me warm water rinses. I once posted a picture of the hook up connection on the delux forum when someone asked about a way to get warm water rinses.
Thanks again.

Post# 821855 , Reply# 100   5/3/2015 at 07:08 (3,282 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
hi Beth

I doubt you used too much STPP..you said you remember your mother using detergent with phosphates did you ever have a reaction than? Course that doesn't mean you haven't developed a sensitivity since than so although odd I guess we shouldn't outrule a sensitivity. I tend to agree with gary about possibly a old buildup of detergent. ..STPP could have loosened it up and it was on the laundry. I also recommend you run a empty load thru with only Stpp and hot water just to clean things out a bit..than I would do a load of rags or throw rugs something you don't wear against your skin with detergent and stpp..but line dry rather than machine dry and see if you still get a reaction. Also are you using the persil from walmart and is this a new detergent for you? If so perhaps that's the cause of your reaction..? Just thinking here...whatever you choose to do keep us posted..good luck Cheryl

Post# 821873 , Reply# 101   5/3/2015 at 13:38 (3,282 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
The Super Washing Soda

stan's profile picture
Will work on cleaning out the machine. Run a empty load and hot water. The Washing soda is bit more alkaline than STPP. And is less expensive to use for that purpose. You really don't want to waste your STPP. Since your rinsing more than once, maybe a little vinegar in one of the rinses will help.

Post# 821923 , Reply# 102   5/3/2015 at 21:51 (3,282 days old)
by d-jones (Western Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh Area))    
 

d-jones's profile picture

All this talk of STPP has got my curiosity piqued, so I ordered a couple pounds to play with and see if it lives up to everyone's comments. It should arrive this week. I've got some shirts with light stains that I'm going to try it out on. Fingers crossed.


Post# 821936 , Reply# 103   5/4/2015 at 00:41 (3,282 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
David

stan's profile picture
From what I understand, due to our drought your area will be receiving more water from the Colorado River, instead of the water from up here that comes from the Sierra snow pack. Therefor your water hardness is likely to increase, (possibly as much as 25% harder) so your STPP may come in handy to compensate. This may be useful to you for laundry and automatic dishwashing needs.
Don't know if leaving stains in the fabric til you receive your STPP is a good idea. STPP is useful no doubt...but IMHO the old rules still apply. AKA pre soak, and pretreating, and correct wash temps for types of stains and types of fabric. As well as a good detergent/soap.
I wouldn't rely on the STPP to replace those preventative steps.


Post# 822016 , Reply# 104   5/4/2015 at 16:50 (3,281 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 
hi all

I did some more loads with the stpp and I am loving it. Even the colored load looks so much better. Things start to look new again. They also feel cleaner. I don't think it's all in my imagination. I did use half the stpp this time from my first load. So its about one ounce stpp. No irritation this time.
Question- my friend would like to start using stpp. She has a maytag dependable that is about 20 years old. She is wondering if when she starts using it all the buidup from between the tubs will start to come up and get on the clothing with the stpp. She has hard well water, and she tried to clean out her machine once with an affresh tablet and her tub turned brown. Can the stpp do the same thing to her machine? Any advice for her would be appreciated.
Thank you.

Post# 822034 , Reply# 105   5/4/2015 at 19:11 (3,281 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
hi Beth

Glad your having good results with the stpp...I can't answer about your friends washer and the stpp but I can tell you about mine...I inherited my roper top loader in my moms home in 2009 I think she bought it in 2001 new..so its about 14 years old. Last summer I threw a load of darks in and when they came out they were covered in a slimmy goo this was a large load..I did some research and decided it needed cleaned so I followed a tutorial on the web and managed to get the drum out..omg you should have seen it it was caked in inches of black slime..I scraped tons off and scrubbed with bleach until that baby was spotless..how did it get this way well my mom only used tide powders and bleach but she was a heavy downy user I figured that caused it but after talking to a service repairman on the phone he said all top loaders have this problem after years of use...and no I was not using STPP at the time..my son did wash a load of towels several days before that and used Tsp (I've since convinced him that's the wrong phosphate) someone else will be able to give you better advice but if your friends washer is that old it probably needs cleaned.Theres a lot of people here that know their stuff about washers so someone will advise you.I also have to get advise about a problem with my washer I just have to figure out where to post it..lol..take care Cheryl

Post# 822071 , Reply# 106   5/5/2015 at 00:35 (3,281 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Beth

stan's profile picture
That's a question that's a little complicated to answer
What's making it complicated for me is the fact that your friend has well water. Now we know that STPP will no doubt be useful to her laundry needs, because STPP "complexes" with hard water minerals. The problem I see, is that if there is hard water scale already built up in the washer, then I doubt STPP will loosen what's already hardened up. If she's been a fabric softener junky, or uses mostly cold water washes, and cold rinses, then she might have two problems (the gunk and the scale)
The best way, is is to do what you did, and get the cabinet off and look. While the cabinet is off and she sees gunk then she can try to scrape out as much as possible, then get the cabinet back on (sometimes is easier to get off then back on) then fill with hot water and use a cup to a cup and a half of washing soda as I mentioned above. (The soda is cheaper to use for purpose than the STPP)
After the gunk/sludge is gone, then she may half to go after the hard water scale with filling the machine with hot water again and using CLR or 3 cups of white vinegar, and running another cycle. At that point she should be good to go provided she uses the STPP with each load she dose to keep the machine that way.
In the past I helped a friend with a similar problem, and we did the washing soda thing. But have also gone further with another friend by removing the cabinet, the agitator, and took inner tub completely out, then you can really see everything and clean everything without filling and re filling and going through all that. To do the later requires some tools specifically a tool needed to remove the tub nut.
Watch! shel get the cabinet off and look and all is fine and there won't be anything in there. LOL

Post# 822072 , Reply# 107   5/5/2015 at 00:40 (3,281 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Sorry Beth

stan's profile picture
I meant to be answering Cheryl I'm getting you two gals mixed up! LOL

Post# 822083 , Reply# 108   5/5/2015 at 04:29 (3,281 days old)
by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio )    
 
Downy!

gpevas's profile picture
I totally agree with Stan about using washing soda like Arm and Hammer washing soda you can find it at Wallmart it seems to be getting harder to find though. Don't be confused with baking soda this is different from washing soda. Downy if used will build up a gel type gunk on the walls of the washer tub not the tub with holes in it but the tub that holds the laundry water. I no longer use it if I want softer towels I use white vinager in the rinse water. I also use NO fabric softner sheets like bounce it coats the fibers and makes the item less absorbent. A trick I used to clean my automatic washer was to set my water heater to the hottest setting then did a hot water wash to really get the gunk off the walls of my washer.

Post# 822097 , Reply# 109   5/5/2015 at 07:37 (3,280 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 
lol

Not hard to get people confused here..as far as that special tool needed to get the tub out are you talking about the spanner nut wrench? Lol I didn't have one sooo I used a hammer and a pipewrench and gently tapped counterclock wise probably not the wisest but I wasn't willing to wait for a spanner wrench. I'm sure my build up came from downy and cold water washes, moms hubby had the hot water valve shut off to save costs what a jerk so cold washes all the time with extre downy ....and factor in that this washer doesn't fill up the whole way on wash or rinse cycle (I'm suspecting moms hubby rigged something) its no wonder this roper was so nasty.
Beth for gods sake do what Stan suggests. .lol. but really find out if that washer used cold water washes and rinse predominantly and if downy was used regularly. .....smiles Cheryl

Post# 822181 , Reply# 110   5/5/2015 at 22:37 (3,280 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 

Now that I have been using the stpp on my loads, it really has been working very well. The clothing come out with similar results as with the Persil pearls. Persil pearls clean so well that now I am wondering if there are phosphates in it. No where on the bottle can I nor my husband find where it says phosphate free like the tide and arm and hammer does. It just says that it's assembled in America with foreign ingredients. Now I'm wondering what the foreign ingredients are. Would anyone happen to know or have more information on the subject?
Thank you all!

Post# 822192 , Reply# 111   5/6/2015 at 02:43 (3,280 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Beth

stan's profile picture
Laundress may be along to answer that question, shes well informed with detergents, and in particular that one.
I doubt that it contains phosphates, but is complex enough that it makes up for the lack of. (As best a possible) Thats just my guess?
I'm curious about the one ounce of STPP dose you've settled on? Is the one ounce measured in volume, or weight? One ounce of STPP by weight is about three Tbs in volume. Where as one ounce of Washing Soda by weight measures out to only be two Tbs.

Post# 822203 , Reply# 112   5/6/2015 at 05:48 (3,280 days old)
by esty (New Jersey)    
 
Hi Stan

I am using the two ounce measuring scoop that the stpp came with. I am just using half a scoop, so I guess thats volume. That seems to be enough for a regular load for me. I have to say that when I did you two ounces, the clothes may have come out brighter, however I can't waste so much water doing so many extra rinses so as not to irritate my hands.

Post# 822324 , Reply# 113   5/6/2015 at 22:34 (3,279 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Gotcha

stan's profile picture
Let us know how it goes for your Freind, and her washer

Post# 842172 , Reply# 114   9/21/2015 at 22:15 (3,141 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Front Loader.

Unfortunately I have a front loader and I'm stuck with it and i've never liked it.

I was wondering if I understood correctly. If I use STPP with regular instead of he detergent..if I mix 30% by weight stpp and 70% reg granular/dry detergent..will it not suds too much? Also... should I run a cup or two of sttp alone with no cloths through on hottest temp once a month or so?

I would be grateful for any and all input. I'm lost with this FL and it has stink problem.

Post# 842179 , Reply# 115   9/22/2015 at 00:41 (3,141 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Laurie

stan's profile picture
Are you thinking that your machine has a build up?
If your trying to clean out the machine because your suspicious of detergent or softener build up, then IMHO I would think washing soda by itself will work. Don't see the point in wasting STPP, save the STPP to add to your detergent when your actually doing laundry.
The STPP can cause some extra sudsing because it's softening (or complexing with) the water. Also depends on the detergent your using, how much, what temp, how hard your water is and what your washing.
So if using STPP... then you may have to adjust the amount of detergent down a bit.


Post# 842209 , Reply# 116   9/22/2015 at 07:02 (3,140 days old)
by joeypete (Concord, NH)    
 

joeypete's profile picture
I've been using STPP for a few months now and I have to say that I notice it more in my dishwasher than in my clothes washer. My dishwasher isn't even a year old yet but it was developing that white film on the heating element. After using a small amount of STPP in each wash, the film is gone and the inside of the washer is sparkling clean. It's really noticeable. For my laundry, it's harder to tell since my clothes don't get THAT dirty. I only wear white tshirts....usually no socks in summer so this winter will prove if it works well on my white socks. I did give a sample to my friend who is on well water and she was complaining that her whites were getting dingy and gray. The STPP has helped to whiten them up. I guess it just all depends on your situations.

Post# 842220 , Reply# 117   9/22/2015 at 07:59 (3,140 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

Laurie, I use STPP regularly in my laundry, you can use HE detergent with it, is there a reason your using non HE detergent in your FL?

Post# 842229 , Reply# 118   9/22/2015 at 10:11 (3,140 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
I'm not using non he.

But I would like to if that's an option. What I have been using: ivory flakes with baking soda and or soda ash with borax..I did that for a long time. Lately i've been squirting some dawn dish liquid with tsp sometimes or soda ash with borax instead. I fill the softener cup with white vinegar for several years now and by reading what your all saying, my guess is it's the only thing that has kept it from clogging. I was just wanting not to have to use HE because it's difficult for me to get and expensive. I realize now to not use a soap base. So I will stop using the dawn or ivory and purchase a powder.. Unless someone knows of a simple homemade recipe for Front Loaders.

Thank you for you're responses and I very much welcome more.

My FL has been quite a difficulty and a disappointment, but I must make peace with it. I live in a tiny trailer with the dryer built-in on top to save room. I have no space for a side by side washer and dryer.

Post# 842252 , Reply# 119   9/22/2015 at 13:10 (3,140 days old)
by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)    
 

dadoes's profile picture
 
hiandry/Laurie,

Maybe the market is different where you live but by-and-large HE detergent seems to be easier to find around here than non-HE.

You mention in your first post that your frontloader has an odor problem.  Regards to your dissatisfaction with it (and the odor), IMO that's due to using a home-brew soap.



This post was last edited 09/22/2015 at 14:04
Post# 842290 , Reply# 120   9/22/2015 at 18:33 (3,140 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Your machine has a whiff about it

launderess's profile picture
Because you are killing it with soap...

Pure soap for constant use in front loaders will harm most machines. Leaving aside the issue of scum deposits pure soaps contain fats and oils that can and probably will eat away at the rubber and other components inside the machine. Worse because you cannot scrub away these various deposits the moist and warm conditions inside your washer from a wonderful breeding ground for mold and mildew.

Think of your bathtub and how it looks after a week or (God forbid) longer if not cleaned to remove soap scum. It is that scum and residue that promotes the mildew and mold you see on grout.

Can understand if financial circumstances are tight, just hunt around for good "HE" detergents on sale and stock up. You will be spending more, much more if you must replace your washing machine every few years because of damage caused by soap.

To sum up soap is fine for the occasional wash in a H-axis washer. However if you truly want to go that route then best get shot of it and look for a top loading washer or even a twin-tub or wringer.

Post# 842292 , Reply# 121   9/22/2015 at 19:01 (3,140 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

Laurie, Launderess has given you good advice, I would recommend you research how to start the cleaning process on your FL, if you've been using soap for a long time it needs cleaned, I can't help you with that I'm a water hog user.
I can recommend detergent, if your looking to save $$ try the sears powdered detergent, either the orange or green box are very good, and spiked with STPP is excellent. Sears often has them on sale, I just bought a 275 load box for 19.99, and its HE.Tide is the best the US offers, its generally on sale somewhere and coupons are easy to come by.I would also advise you to stear clear of liquid detergent at least for now, I'msure your machines gunked up enough right now. Good luck Cheryl

Post# 842362 , Reply# 122   9/23/2015 at 03:00 (3,140 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Laurie

stan's profile picture
Missed the part that the machine has a odor? Dose it?
If so, and if the machine has a build up.. You have to start there.
Run a empty load with hottest water you can get, and a healthy dose of washing soda. If the the machine dose in fact have a " soap" build up, the soda, and hot water should break most of it loose and you'll see sudsing. At least it will indicate that you do have a "soap" build up. You may need to repeat this process until it stops producing suds, and machine runs clear.
When you've got it cleaned out, switch to synthetic HE detergent and a little STPP. I agree with Cheryl.. careful of liquid detergent until your convinced the machine is gunk free.
Despite what you've read online.. Ivory Soap is not the same as it was years ago, and has too much fat left behind during manufacturing to be used on fabric.


Post# 842363 , Reply# 123   9/23/2015 at 03:13 (3,140 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Wanted to add

stan's profile picture
That Washing soda is wonderful for may uses, but for laundry, STPP is a much better option for regular use.
HTH

Post# 842372 , Reply# 124   9/23/2015 at 04:59 (3,140 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
May have the wrong end of the stick

launderess's profile picture
But believe it is the glycerin what helps make soap bad for washing machines. The stuff is great for toilet soaps as glycerin has moisturizing properties, but believe too much of it can harm rubber.



Post# 842383 , Reply# 125   9/23/2015 at 06:48 (3,140 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

Hi Stan, I'm wondering, will *soap* build up in the washer cause sudsing like detergent residue would? Thank you Stan. Cheryl

Post# 842403 , Reply# 126   9/23/2015 at 10:17 (3,139 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Would it be as good or maybe even better

to run Stpp instead of Soda Ash...or maybe even White Vinegar through my Front-Loader in order to clean it out? Fortunately my water heater is turned all the way up and runs extremely hot.

That said.. I had never heard of STPP and was going the TSP rout until I luckily ran across you're threads. Very very informative and has totally changed my perspective.

Are any of you knowledgeable of SPORT WASH LAUNDRY DETERGENT from ATSKO? I have been looking into it and wondered if it's soap based. I just sent them an email to see if they will give me the ingredients. Does it HAVE to be soap based if it's liquid? If it does, i'll get a box of Tide or Sears HE powder as mamapinky suggested, and cut it with stpp when it arrives. I ordered my first (stpp) two days ago and i'm anxious to get it!

Post# 842431 , Reply# 127   9/23/2015 at 13:02 (3,139 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
I got a responce!

The following is the email reply from Atsko: Sport-Wash is as non-soap as a detergent can get. It is made from 2 coconut sourced surfactants.

Here is explanation of soap vs detergent
www.atsko.com/soap-versus-deterge...

What you need to know is "what is left behind in the clothes after washing".
With other detergents the answer is lots more irritants than you started with.
With Sport-Wash/Sensi-Clean there is no residue because it rinses completely.

-My question to you now is... If it's non-soap..is it ok to use in my front loader? Or do all liquids leave problematic scum and build up regardless?

Thanks in advance for letting me pick your brains. You folks are great.

Post# 842432 , Reply# 128   9/23/2015 at 13:11 (3,139 days old)
by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)    
 

kb0nes's profile picture
My take on all this is that its more important to use a GOOD detergent then to add the STPP, especially if you have soft water. There has been a lot of detergent discussions here on the group, look for the top rated ones and you won't go too far wrong. Be sure to use enough of them also.

As for cleaning out your machine just run a full load of rags in the hottest water you can manage. You could even dump in a pot or two of boiling water from the stove before you close the door. Use a large dose of detergent and some chlorine bleach. You may want to run it a few times. Dishwasher detergent can be used to good effect here too. Be sure to run with a full load, the water spinning out of the rags sprays against the upper part of the tub rinsing it down. Running the machine empty doesn't get a lot of water to the top of the drum.

Switching detergents for various loads vs running the same thing all the time probably helps too. Different formulations will work better on different soils so switching may help thwart the build up of films in the machine. In general powder detergents are probably most effective as a generalization. I, like many people here, switch routinely between 5 or 6 different detergents depending on the load.

Front loading machines require a little adaptation in habits compared to older laundry machines to reap their benefits. The people that don't like front load machines seem to be the ones that never really learned how to embrace the new machine. Forget soaps and low end detergents and home made recipes. Buy the good stuff! Compared to a top load machine you will use far less detergent anyhow and that offsets the price.

Post# 842478 , Reply# 129   9/23/2015 at 18:28 (3,139 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
On a mission

I've taken all you're wisdoms and advice and am determined to clean my FL if possible.. First run it through with only the stpp ..then a load of rags with boiling water and bleach. Then wash the rim, inside and out, with turpentine. I saw a video on youtube. I have breathing difficulties and don't want to use bleach to scrub by hand.

I'm going to order the Super Wash because it's soap free and has no chemicals. It's not really all that expensive and if I cut with stpp it should go a long way.

I love this site and feel I have some control over my Dish Washer and Front Loader now since the phosphate ban. Wish I had ran across it a long time ago.

Better late than never.

Post# 842482 , Reply# 130   9/23/2015 at 18:42 (3,139 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
When using a "good" detergent then need for phosphat

launderess's profile picture
Is reduced to nil or none.

Have stopped bothering adding STPP to loads washed with Persil powder or megaperls as find it just isn't required. The stuff performs very well without on its own.

Post# 842500 , Reply# 131   9/23/2015 at 20:29 (3,139 days old)
by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)    
 

kb0nes's profile picture
A bit more follow up.

I wouldn't waste a cycle running the STPP alone, that won't accomplish much of anything.

I also wouldn't clean anything in the machine with Turpentine! It's not likely a good solvent for the soils you are trying to remove and it might damage the rubber!

Personally I wouldn't use that "Superwash" product. It seems you are afraid of detergents. I'd be more afraid of dirty clothing and stuff that grows in your washer then any common detergent.

STPP can be advantageous, but it won't turn a lack luster product into a Tide beater. Detergents have improved a lot since phosphates were removed. Also remember they were banned FOR a reason! If you don't need them you shouldn't use them... And in general unless your water is really hard (or you just HAVE to use poor cleaning products) you don't need the phosphates.

Post# 842507 , Reply# 132   9/23/2015 at 20:38 (3,139 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

If bleach is going to affect your breathing, wouldn't turpentine? Is that even safe to use on a washer? Maybe I missed something here but why don't you just buy a MOL detergent and spike it with STPP or a TOL detergent alone. Why buy a detergent that may just be a boutique bottle of water. If I'm wrong about the Sport Wash I'm sorry, but so many of them are junk.

Post# 842528 , Reply# 133   9/23/2015 at 22:15 (3,139 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Turpentine? Turpentine!

launderess's profile picture
For the love of God woman have you no pity for this poor washing machine? *LOL*

Do you know what turpentine is and what it does? Do you know you'll never get the scent of it out of your machine totally? Persons put some strange things on Youtube and I for one wouldn't take much of it for gospel.

They happen to sell dedicated cleaners for front loading washing machines. No, not that god awful stuff Tide and others sell that is mostly oxygen bleach but descaler/schnellentkalker. Miele sells a it for use in their front loaders but you can us it in any machine. Just contact their parts department to order.

Failing this there is the method recommended by Miele to us years ago to clean our machine; vinegar and baking soda. The idea is to create a "fizzy bomb" for lack of a better analogy to clean the machine. Foaming action created by the mixture of a base and acid becomes like "scrubbing bubbles" that will loosen and help remove scum. Vinegar also is a good disinfectant and killer of mould/mildew. It also removes soap scum/hard water deposits. Indeed in much of Europe housewives along with others have been using vinegar to clean their homes long before more caustic chemicals came about.

In the old days of commercial H-axis washing machines that were side loading oxalic or other acids were used to break down soap scum/hard water mineral deposits. It also required the use of a stiff broom or scrub brush to dislodge said scum. You won't be doing that for no other reason that you cannot get between the wash tubs.

You have something in your machine resembling this:





It took some time to build up and will take effort and time to remove. That being said it is better to start the way you mean to finish. That is by using a good "HE" detergent not only will you stop future problems but also slowly the deposits and biofilm will dissolve. This process can be helped along of course by cleaning the machine as above.

Post# 842540 , Reply# 134   9/24/2015 at 01:02 (3,139 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
@ Cheryl

stan's profile picture
To answer your question, yes. Especially if enough is used and if agitation is vigorous enough.

Contrary to the Atsko article.. Soap is not "mostly a art" It is in fact Science and Chemistry!

Laurie, for your situation (front loader) there's no choice except a good quality detergent. (No soap for you) If your water is hard, than the STPP will help. But you have to clean out that machine first. You've read many good suggestions here to achieve that. Please listen to Laundress don't use turpentine!

Post# 842558 , Reply# 135   9/24/2015 at 07:21 (3,138 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

Thank you Stan, than there could be a real mess in that FL'er with using soap for **a long time** hopefully she gets all the build up cleaned out.

Laurie, remember that Sport Wash is a liquid, right now you would benefit from a good powder detergent. At least until you get everything cleaned up, you stated your washer has a **stink problem** liquid detergent could cause that worsen.

Post# 842576 , Reply# 136   9/24/2015 at 09:37 (3,138 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Too late

I did use the turpentine. So now my quest is to get the smell down. A little odor of it, as long as the mildew is gone, I can live with. I didn't know the gasket is easily removed and so today it comes out and the baking soda scrub begins.

As far as the stpp alone, I meant washing soda as Stan suggested.

Thanks for all the advise on the sports wash.. I assumed because it has no soap it would be ok.. I'll get instead a box of persil and cut it with stpp.. I do have hard water.

I ran the washing soda alone on a long hot cycle then boiled a large pot of water and threw it in with rags and two cups of bleach and ran it through on hot of course then I did the same with vinegar.

If that doesn't get it..my dream for a top loader will be granted. My hubby said he can come up with a plan. He is amazing when motivated. lol



Post# 842579 , Reply# 137   9/24/2015 at 11:33 (3,138 days old)
by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)    
 
I think I understand the plan

iheartmaytag's profile picture
Clean washer with Turpentine (what were you thinking), oh wait that goes further into my analysis of the plan. Hubby's clothes now smell like Turpentine so you get a new washer. Brilliant. It think.

You do know a top loader will have stink issues if misused as well. Don't know if you will be able to pull of the ole Turpentine for a new washer trick again.


Post# 842584 , Reply# 138   9/24/2015 at 12:53 (3,138 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Laurie

stan's profile picture
The Persil is probably a safe bet.
However I'd check with Laundress about this, as she is well versed with Persil products. In other words which product used for what your washing. She will also have an idea as to whether or not STPP will be needed while using the Persil line of laundry products.

Post# 842589 , Reply# 139   9/24/2015 at 14:32 (3,138 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Launderess,

Is this (see the picture) the correct type of Persil you feel would be what I would want for my Front Loader?

BTW, everyone that was concerned about my turpentine use yesterday. I got all but a faint smell out of the rubber gasket I scrubbed with it. I lucked out and it smells kind of perfumy and almost looks new. Something had to be done and bleach was not an option.. I had tried the baking soda and vinegar first..it just didn't do it. I wiped and wiped and wiped...it was never ending and mainly just smeared. It had been left too long with the soap detergent crap I used and had built a horrible gunky moldy mess. It fits tight and I kept the top clean and just didn't realize what was brewing underneath...If I had known it came off I would have taken it outside and soaked it in bleach water..

If my lungs are not damaged further from the turp, then all worked out after all. Now my washer appears to be clean clean clean. But I know the lines may be gunked up. If they are.. I'll be getting a top loader after all. If not.. I intend to give it my best shot with what I have.

Thanks everyone..this has been fun for me. I love learning these kind of things. Just maybe i'll learn to love my FL. It's funny because I have always wanted an old fashion wringer washer.. but living where I do now.. that probably will never happen.


Post# 842603 , Reply# 140   9/24/2015 at 16:57 (3,138 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Glad you got it clean

stan's profile picture
Laundress will be along to give you the low down about the Persil.
Getting back to the soap subject for just a min... If I'm not mistaken one of the Persil powdered detergents dose contain a percentage of soap. Not enough to concern yourself with. This is another question for Laundress. She can confirm this, and give the reason for that percentage being there in the first place.

Post# 842608 , Reply# 141   9/24/2015 at 17:27 (3,138 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 

launderess's profile picture
Many European and American detergents contain soap; Tide, Persil, etc... for a good reason it enhances cleaning of oily dirt. Soap also can be used for froth suppression but there are far better substances (silicones) for that.

Thing is when using soap as part of a detergent the formula is balanced to avoid many of the issues that come from using pure soap for laundry. This lessens the issues seen above.

Being as all this may as one has repeatedly stated persons all over Europe in particular France use soap (in particular Savon de Marseille) for laundry *in* their washing machines.

Just as with us here there are lively debates all over the French "Web" about using soap for laundry.

www.google.com/QUESTIONMA...


anissina-turelle.com/recettes/eco...

Henkel's Le Chat (the Cat) soap flakes sold in France: www.amazon.fr/Le-Chat-Paillette-M...

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK


Post# 842617 , Reply# 142   9/24/2015 at 18:05 (3,138 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Launderess,

I need to rest my brain on this for a bit but I need to make a decision on what detergent i'm going to use..at least to start out. It's confusing me because I thought we all agreed that soap .. any soap.. is a BIG NO NO in a front loader.

Three of your threads are in French and I do not have a anything installed to change it to English.

If you saw the picture of the detergent I posted I would appreciate an opinion.

As I said.. I need to rest my poor brain on this subject for a bit and just get something before my laundry gets out of control.

Thanks again you guys are great.

Post# 842629 , Reply# 143   9/24/2015 at 19:57 (3,138 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Soap and front loading washing machines

launderess's profile picture
In general no, you do not nor should not routinely use soap in modern front loading washing machines. Especially the various witches brews so called "home made laundry detergent" found all over the Internet.

Being as all this may both in Europe and the USA there is a subset of the demographic that believe for various reasons soap is better for their laundry. To this market in France as noted has various soap flakes. You can also find them in the UK and USA.
www.amazon.com/Dri-Pak-Soap-Flake...

You also had or have various soap based general laundry "detergents" such as White King of old and CalBen: www.calbenpuresoap.com/seafoam-la...

These latter two combined surfactants and water softeners to overcome much of the drawbacks ot using soap for laundry.

Have other sites (sadly for you they are in French) concerning soap flakes (savon de Marseille) in the wash. Most comments say what Stan, myself and others pretty much knew already. Soap cleans very well but won't touch some stains/soils. It also requires more effort. In addition some contacted various makers of washing machines sold in France. Some (Whirlpool) recommended against using soap in their machines, others didn't think it would be a problem.

Henkel give directions for its soap flakes that they are to be used for "light duty" laundry and not routine washing. They also are to be used in "delicate" cycle or any other where drum movements are controlled. This will prevent excess froth from being churned up.

By not using soap exclusively and alternating with a modern detergent the latter will "clean" away gunk and whatever residue left by the former.

I happen to have a vast horde of laundry soap products ranging from old Persil to Ivory Snow. I would *NEVER* use any for routine washing but restrict them to linens, undergarments, delicates and other such things.

Using pure soap for doing your routine washing is just going to harm your machine. You'll never be able to reach the proper dosage required without creating huge amounts of froth. Also you'll never be able to get all that soap and its residue out of your machine. That and again the routine dosage of fats/oils can lead to rot.

Am ironing some bed linens washed last night with Ivory Snow (cut with La France and Tide liquid)and the scent is beyond wonderful.




Post# 842655 , Reply# 144   9/24/2015 at 23:09 (3,138 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Laurie let your brain rest.. LOL

stan's profile picture
I while I don't use any of the Persil products, I'm sure you'll be happy with any of the Persil products. (One you posted) They certainly will do a better job on your laundry and won't harm your Front Loader.


Post# 842719 , Reply# 145   9/25/2015 at 10:38 (3,137 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

Launderess, one of these days I hope to be lucky enough to run across some Ivory Snow, its a real bugger to find lol. I bet that bed linen did smell beyond beautiful lol

Post# 842721 , Reply# 146   9/25/2015 at 10:45 (3,137 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

I should add I'm looking for the Ivory Snow powder

Post# 842778 , Reply# 147   9/25/2015 at 18:17 (3,137 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
You can find Ivory Snow All Over The Internet

launderess's profile picture
If one didn't have several cases of original Persil, P&G laundry soap bars and that case of Lux Flakes would probably get more. However am good with the three or so boxes in my stash.


Calben Laundry Soap Powder.

Notice they copied in part the old Persil formula; soap + silicates. Silicates aren't good as phosphates but will do.

Post# 842874 , Reply# 148   9/26/2015 at 11:40 (3,136 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Launderess and Stan

Thank you both for your responses to my last question.

Now.. two more. If you don't mind. *smile*

First: I have found online two different types (or just packaged differently) of Persil. One on amazn and the other on the wlmart site (the latter being much cheaper than the first) but it's not in the traditional box and people have said in the reviews that wlmart's is not the real deal and is inferior to the Persil sold on amaz_on.

Laundress...in you're opinion, if you have one. Is Wlmart's Persil the same thing but packaged differently?

Second: If my FL would happen to be in the nasty condition of the picture below.. will using an appropriate detergent and running a bleach or washing soda through once a month ..eventually clean it out?

  View Full Size
Post# 842884 , Reply# 149   9/26/2015 at 13:30 (3,136 days old)
by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)    
 

kb0nes's profile picture
Laurie,

I used to sell astronomy equipment and I had customers that spend scads of time researching online and reading reviews. It lead them to never just pick something and get on with it. The term for that is Paralysis by Analysis. Research is good, but at a point we have to just pick something and go. Unless the goal is to just do research, but in this case I think the goal is clean laundry lol

So at this point I think you know what caused your problem with your machine.

Switching to ANY good detergent, used in proper dosing will probably completely cure your problem without the need to run cleaning cycles. Or even use STPP.

So my final suggestion is to just get on with it. But some Persil (or Tide). Run a couple loads of rags with this detergent and HOT water and some bleach. Forget about the washing soda. If you wish to toss in a Tablespoon of STPP so be it, it won't hurt. This should get the machine to be happy after a few cycles.

Moving forward just keep using those detergents, forget about soap, home made concoctions and anything unknown. Just use something well rated by Consumers Reports for instance. Run an occasional load of rags with some bleach and HOT water. Switching between various detergents from load to load sure can't hurt either. Wipe out any moisture after a cycle and make sure the door stays open.

Do these simple steps and you may eventually find that your FL machine has advantages over any top loader you could own :)

Post# 842954 , Reply# 150   9/26/2015 at 21:17 (3,136 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Laurie

stan's profile picture
I wish I could answer your first question, but really can't because I've never used any Persil.
Laundress knows this detergent, and is familiar with the differences between the European types as well as the U.S version.
I can say that I've heard good reviews about the one sold at Walmart. So give it a try.
There no way to "forget about the washing soda" because it's in all powdered detergents anyway. And it's there for a reason.


Post# 843024 , Reply# 151   9/27/2015 at 11:23 (3,135 days old)
by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)    
 

kb0nes's profile picture
"There no way to "forget about the washing soda" because it's in all powdered detergents anyway."

Exactly, hence my suggestion.... If more would make the detergent better, I bet it would come that way

Post# 843067 , Reply# 152   9/27/2015 at 14:38 (3,135 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Good advice you two, thanks a heap.

What are you guys saying about the washing soda? Forget about it? But we can't because it's in all detergents? I thought that would be a good thing. No?

Post# 843079 , Reply# 153   9/27/2015 at 15:59 (3,135 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Laurie

stan's profile picture
I think Phil and I are talking about two different things.
Most powdered detergents contain 30 to 40 % sodium carbonate..AKA washing soda. You haven't been using commercially made laundry detergents. You've been doing the Ivory soap thing!
What I'm proposing is using a full cup of washing soda by itself (full strength) in a attempt to clean out the machine. Since you have a Front Loading machine.. I'd pre-dissolve this in hot water before adding to the dispenser.
I'm not suggesting that you do this continually, or that you add washing soda to powdered detergent since it's already contained therein.
Phil is making a very good suggestion in that whatever you chose to clean the machine with, that you run it with shop towels, rags ect, so that whatever you clean it with, gets dispersed to all sides of the tub.
When I helped a friend clean her machine (she had been a liquid detergent user with cold wash and rinses) and we where dealing with a Top Loader and had the advantage of filling the machine with hottest water, adding a cup and a half of Washing soda, letting it soak a while, then allowing the machine to go through a full cycle. We were able to see what the soda broke loose, and it started producing suds, with NO detergent added! Since her machine drained into a laundry sink instead of a stand pipe, we were able to really able to see what came out. This is what worked for her.
I'm not recommending that you do this all the time. Or for you to make habit of adding washing soda with every load. If you get the above Persil Pearls you won't need to.
Personally.. Occasionally I only use washing soda is when I'm using a liquid detergent (P.H neutral) and think for whatever reason I want to boost alkalinity. In that case I may add two Tbls only. (Also pre-dissolved)
"Occasionally" being the operative word here.


Post# 843081 , Reply# 154   9/27/2015 at 16:08 (3,135 days old)
by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)    
 

In response to Phil's statement about using just detergent if you have soft water, I would invite him to ask his brother Jeff about the benefits of adding STPP to the detergent. Jeff thought that because he has a water softener, he did not need STPP even though I offered to let him try some several times. Somehow or other, he eventually did try STPP and was a impressed at the improvement. Soft water makes for better washing and rinsing, but STPP adds something more. I think Jeff mentioned something about the soils and the acids into which body oils morph being more than what just soft water can handle. It loosens soils and helps detergents to rinse out of fabrics better. I am not adding more because anybody who bothers to use the searcholator feature can find numerous previous discussions on the topic.

Post# 843100 , Reply# 155   9/27/2015 at 17:33 (3,135 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
One has to be a paid member

in order to use the search locator. I am considering becoming one because this site is a wealth of information and I would love to use it. And not only because it's so interesting and informative..but because of the way it's set-up and the ongoing members are so interesting and enjoyable.

Post# 843134 , Reply# 156   9/27/2015 at 22:19 (3,135 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

Doesn't that homemade stuff use washing soda? Ah well even so with using the few tabelspoons mixed with god only knows what else can't even count that few grains Cheryl

Post# 843203 , Reply# 157   9/28/2015 at 10:20 (3,134 days old)
by tennblondie78 (Bowling Green, KY)    
 

tennblondie78's profile picture
Oh for the love of God, Hiandry, just go to Wal-Mart, buy some Persil and be done with it. You are making mountains out of molehills and making it too difficult. This isn't rocket science. You first said you couldn't afford HE detergent and then you went to buying Persil off of Amazon, which is high. I got a headache after reading the Turpentine bit. Go buy some Persil and your machine will finish cleaning itself out over time. Sorry to be short, but the whole thing has gotten ridiculous.

Post# 843206 , Reply# 158   9/28/2015 at 10:28 (3,134 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
The STPP arrived yesterday and i've had my first experie

with it. Since the cleaning out of my FL had begun several days ago, I have used NO detergent, not wanting to aggravate the scum/mold issue i've been fighting. I decided to wait for the Persil I ordered... so i've been washing with Borax and Washing Soda alone..and have done maybe 4 loads like that. I sniffed and looked the laundry over as it came out of the wash then dryer, and only found one wash cloth that smelled questionable.

After the Stpp came I used a little with borax alone and WOW what a difference! Everything was softer than I can ever recall and had a clean smell I can't ever remember experiencing.

And that's with only Borax and Stpp. I realize the soap is still probably in everything that never rinsed well but maybe not all that much because I always used two rinses and put a full cup or more of vinegar in each load.


Post# 843221 , Reply# 159   9/28/2015 at 13:05 (3,134 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

So your washing clothes in borax and washing soda alone? How much of each did you use in a load and what water temp? Than you moved on to borax and stpp....do you have a problem with detergent? I don't get it. Walmart does sell detergent. Cheryl

Post# 843238 , Reply# 160   9/28/2015 at 15:44 (3,134 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
mamapinky,

I SAID.. the last few days, because I don't have HE detergent on hand ..I have been using Borax and Washing Soda (alone) until the Persil comes..not wanting to add the grated ivory "SOAP" too, as I did in the past.

I have never used STPP nor heard of it until reading the forums on this site. My order of it came yesterday and I washed a load with Borax and Stpp (ALONE) without the Washing Soda or anything else..just the two. One tsp of stpp and about a half cup of Borax.

Deducing from what I have read here.. "SOAP" has caused a foul odor in my FL. The homemade laundry detergent recipe found online..that being THREE ingredients, grated ivory soap, borax and washing soda.. THAT'S IT!

BUT.. the last few months.. INSTEAD of soap..I used dawn with borax.. the TWO ONLY.

From what I read on this site, I can assume.. because i've always used white vinegar instead of commercial softeners. And have always used warm or hot water with two rinses, is why my FL is not a total slimy mold mess.

I have never been a cold water fan... The detergent has to dissolve and penetrate in order to do it's job and I can't see that happening in cold water.

Evidently, because I used that turpentine..ya'll think i'm daft. Folks, I cleaned houses for years and I am a clean freak. So..i'm not totally out to lunch concerning cleaning agents.



Post# 843243 , Reply# 161   9/28/2015 at 16:02 (3,134 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Let me add.

After I did the load with stpp.. I stuck my head inside the washer and my FL now smells sweet.

I have no doubt it was a combination of all the good suggestions here because I did them all.. one at a time..and i'm thrilled with the results.

Thanks everyone!



Post# 843515 , Reply# 162   9/29/2015 at 20:46 (3,133 days old)
by tennblondie78 (Bowling Green, KY)    
 

tennblondie78's profile picture
"So your washing clothes in borax and washing soda alone? How much of each did you use in a load and what water temp? Than you moved on to borax and stpp....do you have a problem with detergent? I don't get it. Walmart does sell detergent." Cheryl

Hiandry,

What we don't understand is why you don't just go to the store and buy HE detergent. It is widely available at any store, even Dollar General. It makes no sense.

PS: I know how to use the block function. I just find this thread amusing.

Post# 843545 , Reply# 163   9/29/2015 at 23:00 (3,133 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Tennblondie78

stan's profile picture
Don't want to speak for Laurie, but I gather that the thinking is to try to clean out her machine before adding anymore surfactants...(soap or detergents) until she receives her Persil.
Id go about different...but she's working it out her own way.

Laurie, I forgot to ask about the pic you posted of the inside of a machine.. Who's machine was that?

Post# 843674 , Reply# 164   9/30/2015 at 20:20 (3,132 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Stan

The picture is from google images and I'm sure glad it's not mine! LOL.. And you are correct in that my objective has been to get it clean.

Tennblondie78....Why is it such a big deal for me to wait a few days for the Persil? Is my FL or laundry in danger if I don't use a detergent on a few loads? Stpp is evidently an excellent way to clean front loaders.. and as for Borax..well just google it.

I tried to be concise and not bore everyone with every little detail.. thinking it wasn't necessary. And I don't think it was, because Stan understood. Maybe he disagreed, but he got it.

But if you are really that interested.. this might clear things up for you.

I live pretty far out in the country and quite some distance from a town that has a walmart or dollar store. So I try to shop once a month and not make extra trips. Therefor, I make due with what I have on hand, hence the turpentine.

I wouldn't do it again.. but it did work and it did so beautifully. Turp is not just a paint thinner folks... but has gone by the way-side as most natural cleaners have.

Concerning my lack of using a detergent at the present. "My" walmart, and it's a huge one, has only THREE brands of powdered HE to choose from. But, if you want a TL powder and or liquid or a HE liquid, there is every commercial and generic brand imaginable. And the HE's are more expensive. Why it's not like that for you all..I have no idea. Maybe because I live in a reg-neck area and most people still use Top Loaders and those that don't prefer the liquid..just a guess.

That being said. It makes more sense to me, to order the Persil that Laundress speaks so highly of and from what i've researched because of.. Spend the initial money and bypass most of the crap additives and chemicals that are in walmart's HE's. I take it if one uses commercial brands from wallyworld their getting 10 percent cleaning agents and 90 percent crap (exaggeration? maybe). Therefor, the Persil is no more of a cost and better for your laundry and washing machine. A win win.

Anywho.. I wrote far more than I wanted to..but I like to help folks out every chance I get. I'd hate to keep anyone up nights, scratching their heads in bewilderment at that strange lady who doesn't like chemicals and uses turpentine....



Post# 843676 , Reply# 165   9/30/2015 at 20:46 (3,132 days old)
by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)    
 

dadoes's profile picture
 
I think you're exaggerating the flaws that you perceive/fear to be in detergent products.  Regards to availability of HE powders vs. liquids, liquids used properly would been better than the home-brew compounds you've been using, IMO.

Post# 843687 , Reply# 166   9/30/2015 at 21:56 (3,132 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
You may be

right about the Liquid HE's being better for Front-Load Washers than my DIY detergent recipe found online... I have no idea. But that is not the issue.

And my belief about commercial detergents is an opinion based on an awful lot of information anyone can easily research for himself if so inclined.

I don't care to argue or to try to sway anyone because I really could care less who believes what.

I just came here looking for answers concerning my dishwasher and ran across this section about washing machine issues ..and I have one..an issue that is. And I believe from the information I've gotten here, it's now resolved.

Time will tell.



Post# 843689 , Reply# 167   9/30/2015 at 22:04 (3,132 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Laurie

stan's profile picture
Yes..your right I did understand. And I suspected your where out in the boonies, know what thats like!
I was in Walmart today (which I hate) and decided to try the Persil this is the one I got. I washed a med load of colors with it in warm water (Standard top loader) Because it's new to me I think I may have over dosed slightly because I had suds in my rinse water, and had to do a second rinse. Something that never usually happens. Don't know which one you ordered, but thought I'd give you a heads up to be carful with your dosing in case this is the one you did order. Pay close attention to the lines on the cap. (I didn't)
I'm not sure if I'm going to like this stuff or not! LOL. Time will tell.
Let us know how you make out with the Persil
HTH

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Post# 843691 , Reply# 168   9/30/2015 at 22:45 (3,132 days old)
by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)    
 

sudsmaster's profile picture

Might have been said before, but older Ivory bar soap didn't contain glycerin. It was rinsed away during the manufacturing process and consequently I often heard complaints about Ivory being "too drying".

 

I haven't bought any for some years now, but the stash I have seems to be glycerin free. I can't speak for what's now on the shelves, but it may be the company decided it needed to add back in glycerin and/or other moisturizers in order to compete with the likes of Lever 2000 and other popular bar soaps.

 

The older Ivory bar soap, when grated, worked fairly well on whites, esp when boosted with STPP.

 


Post# 843693 , Reply# 169   9/30/2015 at 23:23 (3,132 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Hi Sudsmaster

stan's profile picture
The Ivory is still a bit drying, however glycerin is on the ingredients list. How much they leave... who knows.
Besides the glycerin, the lye/fat ratio, and choice of fats can influence how a soaps performs, as well as how it rinses away.
Personally... I feel the Ivory is too drying for skin, but not quite drying enough for laundry use.
One way to tell how a soap will perform is to try to hand wash dishes with it. If the suds easily go flat, or leave a residue, won't cut through grease, then it won't work well for laundry either.


Just did a second load of whites with the Persil (payed attention to the cap) filled to line two, and still had to do a second rinse! What's with the sudsing with this stuff? I don't have to do this when I use pure Soap!
And the little return drain hole on the cap is in the wrong spot. (Drilled my own)
Laundress! Help!
LOL

Post# 843774 , Reply# 170   10/1/2015 at 16:08 (3,131 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Persil

I've been reading the Persil reviews on amazon and some (too many) aren't good. Some long timers are saying it's not cleaning like it use to. And wallyworld claims their Persil has the original scent but nothing about original formula. Sounds fishy to me.

I'm going to back out and send it back if they won't cancel.. and do more research before committing to spending that much money.

I ordered the six boxes of cascade and if it had worked, would have been well worth the $$.. But so far I can't tell that it's any better than the crap with citric acid.

I'd have a cow if I got took on the detergent too. LOL

The good news is.. I have found a new love and that takes the sting out of it.
STPP!!

Dawn always cleaned my stainless steel cookware very well..but lately that's not the case. I googled it and read their formula has changed.

Anywho.. I just now I sprinkled a little stpp on, then squirt a little dawn on top.. and used my trusty green scrubby and it cleaned my big skillet like a charm (cooked on scramble eggs).. it has never been so shiny and rinsed so easily.

Do I sound like a commercial??





Post# 843780 , Reply# 171   10/1/2015 at 16:56 (3,131 days old)
by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)    
 

kb0nes's profile picture
Laurie, I am truly jealous of your free time...

Post# 843784 , Reply# 172   10/1/2015 at 17:20 (3,131 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Don't be.

Just turn the tv off and you'll have some too.

Post# 843815 , Reply# 173   10/1/2015 at 19:39 (3,131 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Cannot assist with this new Persil Sold At Walmart

launderess's profile picture
As haven't touched the stuff and have no plans to do so.

Stan if you are having rinsing issues can only suspect Henkel/Dial cranked up the surfactant level and or your water is really soft thus requiring a very small dose.

Post# 843851 , Reply# 174   10/1/2015 at 22:48 (3,131 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Thank You Dear

stan's profile picture
For stoping by.
My water is about 6 grains (med hardness)
The instructions on the bottle say to fill to line 1 or line 2 for ANY machine. There's no possible way (I can see) that this will work with a front loading machine. It's sudsing is worse that phosphated Roma was. If I cut the dosing down for clear rinsing, I'm afraid I'd loose cleaning?
What makes matters worse is the scent! It has that smell.. you know! Not as strong, but that same scent, and it really sticks to the fabric.
It did clean well, but I think I hate it! Who's using this? LOL


Post# 843856 , Reply# 175   10/1/2015 at 23:35 (3,131 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

I recently picked up an order of Miele detergent at the vac dealer, the owner of the shop told me his sales for Euro Persil has dropped significantly, people are complaining somethings wrong with it , its not cleaning well and after the clothes are dried its leaving a musty odor, his sales for Miele has gone up because of this. Said his wife is also unhappy with Persil now and has started using Miele. I've read a lot about the Euro Persil changing lately so wonder what is up. Cheryl

Post# 843857 , Reply# 176   10/1/2015 at 23:53 (3,131 days old)
by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)    
 

dadoes's profile picture
 
I've been using WM-sourced Persil for most loads in my Calypso.  Little to no sudsing.  Typical dosage for an average+ to large load is 3 to 3.5 tablespoons (which corresponds to the cap lines) + 2 tablespoons STPP.  I have not tried it in my "traditional" F&P toploader but presumably a larger dose would needed for the larger volume of water.  I have a load of sheets to do tomorrow, maybe will use the F&P and Persil, be interesting to see how it does for sudsing during the Eco Active phase.  My well water is not much soft.

Post# 843862 , Reply# 177   10/2/2015 at 00:18 (3,131 days old)
by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)    
 

kb0nes's profile picture
Stan, I have been using both the Persil Pearls and standard liquid, both from Walmart for a few weeks now. I've been quite pleased with both. I have never measured either in the cap, I use a Tablespoon and just keep adding till it looks/feels right. In my standard capacity Whirlpool BD the using the Pearls a dose usually comes up at ~3 Tablespoons full depending on soils. Overall I get very little sudsing and personally I like the fragrance.

I have used the liquid a bit less, generally only on more color sensitive loads. Dosing with the liquid is tougher and I have had more sudsing in my softened water.

I do sometimes add about a Tablespoon of STPP, but I try to keep that to a minimum. The Pearls work quite well without the STPP.

Post# 843865 , Reply# 178   10/2/2015 at 00:41 (3,131 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
If you guys

stan's profile picture
Were close, by I'd be over quick to hand this over to you LOL
I guess adding one Tbls at a time til things looked and felt right would work.. But if it leaves this scent I still couldn't handle it.
Don't mind seeing suds while washing.. But if I see them in my rinse water, it bugs me.
I can't.. in good conscience use a second rinse in my water hog during this drought.
So it back to my usual tried and true.
Wouldn't you know I bought the largest size.. So someone will be happy to find this on their doorstep!

Post# 843892 , Reply# 179   10/2/2015 at 07:59 (3,130 days old)
by mamapinky (blairsville pa)    
 

No sudsing in my TL Speed Queen with WM Pearls, clear rinse, and no scent after the clothes dry, actually the only detergent that has ever left a detergent scent for me after the wash is done is Tide Color Guard, Surf (I hate this one) and Persil pro 2 in 1 if I overdose. Otherwise I don't usually have detergent scent issues...Cheryl

Post# 843948 , Reply# 180   10/2/2015 at 15:47 (3,130 days old)
by stan (Napa CA)    
 
Laurie

stan's profile picture
Hope it wasn't that bad? And hope it wasn't me that offended you. If it was, it was not intentional.
I thought that the thread was going well? It drifted off topic (Gary's post about STPP and Zote) but that sometimes happens.
If I understand correctly, you did find the STPP useful?
Take Care

Post# 843952 , Reply# 181   10/2/2015 at 16:06 (3,130 days old)
by hiandry ()    
 
Yes I did Stan.

I love the STPP and I will give this site credit for that. I have done a lot of research and never saw it mentioned anywhere else. That's how I found this site...And no, you were not rude it the least.



Post# 843958 , Reply# 182   10/2/2015 at 16:45 (3,130 days old)
by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)    
 
Not for nothing Stan

launderess's profile picture
But didn't we do a swap over those boxes of "stinky" German Persil. *LOL*

I mean if you didn't like that stuff what did you expect from the "American" version? (ducks and runs).

Find with proper dosage and the good rinsing either in my Miele or Lavamat scent of Persil powder or Mega-perls is almost nil after drying. OTOH that Persil color gel is another matter.

Post# 843963 , Reply# 183   10/2/2015 at 17:33 (3,130 days old)
by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)    
 
Persil Results - IWL12 Toploader

dadoes's profile picture
 
1) 3 tablespoons Persil ProClean Power Pearls + 1 tablespoon STPP (sure doesn't look like much).

2) Queen-size sheets set - flat, fitted, three pillow covers, three pillow cases.

3) Minimal sudsing during Eco Active phase, cold water for blood stain treatment.

4) No suds during agitation, warm water, medium-low water level via auto-sense.

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Post# 843978 , Reply# 184   10/2/2015 at 19:43 (3,130 days old)
by
stan (Napa CA)    
 
Dear.

stan's profile picture
I thought I was safe because I couldn't smell it during the ride home LOL, but at least you know the smell I'm speaking of.
DADoES if I use that much, I'd have suds out the ...
Can't understand? Guess Persil and me just can't get along.






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