Thread Number: 11477
HE3t teardown...My misery-Your entertainment
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Post# 205628   4/22/2007 at 15:03 (6,213 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        

On a recent thread about the quality of modern appliances, Launderess and others bemoaned the fact that they don't make 'em like they used to. I didn't add anything to that thread as I like to have more to say than just "Amen".

So here is my example of modern junk. When we moved here, Dennis gave me permission to get the most "bling-bling" washer available at the time, saying something about "Malama aina" which means care for the land. So I got the super stingy HE3t from Sears Kenmore.

Over the course of the last year, I've noticed that it makes a strange knocking sound at the lower spin speeds, the sound goes away at the higher speeds. I chose to ignore the sound. The other day I was looking at things more closely, I noticed that there was play in the tub; by jiggling the tub back and forth, you could recreate this knocking noise I kept on hearing. It felt to me like the tub had come loose from the spider that holds it to the shaft. The only way I could prove this is by tearing the thing down.

Now let me just say that it galls me slightly to even have to consider this procedure on a machine that is not even three and a half years old. It is just Dennis and I so its not like its doing laundry for one of the huge Catholic families that Maytag used to feature in their ads....

So I tore the f#*&ing thing down today, which is not how I wanted to spend my sunday, but I took pictures so my friends here could enjoy.

I started by removing the top.





Post# 205629 , Reply# 1   4/22/2007 at 15:05 (6,213 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        

Back panel removed

Post# 205630 , Reply# 2   4/22/2007 at 15:06 (6,213 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        

Front access panel and pump guard

Post# 205633 , Reply# 3   4/22/2007 at 15:10 (6,213 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        

Main front off

Post# 205634 , Reply# 4   4/22/2007 at 15:12 (6,213 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        

almost there

Post# 205639 , Reply# 5   4/22/2007 at 15:17 (6,213 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        

So I get it all apart, and it is not glaringly obvious to me what the problem is. The tub is securely attached to the shaft and spider. There is some rust on the surface of the bearings, but they feel smooth when I turn them and I don't feel any play there.

There is a spot on the shaft that looks a bit worn- I cannot tell if that is the problem or not.


Post# 205640 , Reply# 6   4/22/2007 at 15:20 (6,213 days old) by hotpointwf220 ()        

is that like the whirlpool duet aka dreamspace in uk, If it is I'm glad I didn't get one. cheers for the pics.

Post# 205647 , Reply# 7   4/22/2007 at 15:30 (6,213 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        

The bearing-There is some rust here which leads me to believe that the seal has failed

Post# 205648 , Reply# 8   4/22/2007 at 15:39 (6,213 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        

Yes Richard this is the same as the Duet and the Dreamspace. Other than this (major problem) it has been a good machine and I would be spoiled to go back to a machine that spins at a pathetic 600 rpm.

I need to get on the phone with Sears as the main tub has a twenty year warranty (which includes the spider and shaft) and the rear tub shell has a ten year warranty (and the rear tub includes the bearing). I would really like them to send me both pieces. If I had to buy these out of pocket the tub is $510 and the rear tub shell with bearing is $330. Don't know if I have the emotional energy to deal with Sears today. In the meantime here is the obligatory cat picture featuring Bruno


Post# 205649 , Reply# 9   4/22/2007 at 15:44 (6,213 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        

One more picure of pump guard schmutz

Post# 205668 , Reply# 10   4/22/2007 at 18:17 (6,213 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
How depressing!!!

Post# 205674 , Reply# 11   4/22/2007 at 18:27 (6,213 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        
I knew this wouldn't be easy....

So I decide I am not putting this back together with only one new part-I really want a NEW bearing as well as a basket. So I call Sears hellish 1-800-Fuk-my-Home. I tell the little bimbo there that I need these new parts and that my owners manual states that these parts are under warranty. She tells me that this is not Sears warranty, but Kenmore's warranty. WHATS THE BLEEPING DIFFERENCE! So I call the special Kenmore number. I tell the guy whats up. What does the dumbshit do? He transfers me back to the Sears parts number where they tell me that they cannot help me and that I must call Kenmore again. I cannot believe that Sears hates it's customers so much! So I dial the fricken Kenmore # again. This time I am told that they will cover those parts under warranty provided that I pay a Sears service tech to come take a look. So now I have to pay a service tech even though I am a service tech! So now I have to sit here with my washer in a million pieces until May 1. So Sears warranty isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

I am tempted just to put the machine back together, cancel the service call and just run the damned thing til it blows up.

I may go down to the local Sears store and make a little scene...

What do you guys and gals think?


Post# 205679 , Reply# 12   4/22/2007 at 18:33 (6,213 days old) by westytoploader ()        

Junk it and get a Maytag.

Post# 205685 , Reply# 13   4/22/2007 at 18:51 (6,213 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Even more depressing!! Maybe a shredmore isn't so bad after all.

Post# 205690 , Reply# 14   4/22/2007 at 19:01 (6,213 days old) by bleacho ()        
junk it, and get a frigidaire

forget about sears, or Kenmore warranties.. the company has gone down the drain.. had an elite dishwasher that i paid 1200 bucks for.. simply not washing well.. because its been two months, im out of the 30 day unconditional warranty.. so i know wht youre going thru..
tech coming tomorrow. why? no clus the thing is a piece of junk.. tossing it away, or thru a Sears window. they can have it.. im dont with that company...
not a sears but a Kenmore warranty.. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!
buy your next thru someone local.. small business..at least they look at you in the eyes..


Post# 205693 , Reply# 15   4/22/2007 at 19:18 (6,213 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Small Business!

peteski50's profile picture
I bought my LG combo through a small business and I got screwed with the warrenty. I was so surprised but they don't even want to know me now. Now I want to get rid of the machine and the next time I will go through a bigger business. You take a chance with whatever you do.
Peter


Post# 205700 , Reply# 16   4/22/2007 at 20:16 (6,213 days old) by decodriveboy (FL, US)        
Hmm

Everyone loves a Frigidaire FL, seems like.

I already love mine (it came with the house I just bought) mainly because I was able to very easily "modify" the water level....hehehehe. No stingy-ness tolerated here! :)


Post# 205716 , Reply# 17   4/22/2007 at 22:35 (6,213 days old) by soapnsuds ()        
F@#$ Sears

Go with an LG. Got mine through Best Buy and love them. Also had a Frigidaire FL for several years and had no problems. Only got rid of them because the LG's came out.
I gave up on Sears and Kenmore YEARS ago with their lack of customer service and crap appliances. And you don't even want to go down the WhirlyTag, MayPool or whatever they are calling Maytag these days...I'm sure I'll hear it from everyone, but appliances are just like cars, if you want a good one, you certainly don't buy an american made or american engineered one!!
Thanks for the fun and cool picks!!--James


Post# 205723 , Reply# 18   4/22/2007 at 22:55 (6,213 days old) by westyslantfront ()        

May I suggest a top loading, direct drive Whirltag??

Ross


Post# 205726 , Reply# 19   4/22/2007 at 23:07 (6,213 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
I have a client with the exact same problem in his Duet washer. I looked at it, but everthing appears to be fine. Put it back together and tighten the drive pulley nut very securely. It should stop the noise during lower spin speeds.

Post# 205731 , Reply# 20   4/22/2007 at 23:23 (6,213 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
F@#$ Sears

peteski50's profile picture
From my experiences I would stay away from LG. If they are working they are great. But if you need it serviced you are screwed. I am currently looking to sell my LG combo at this time. At least with Americam appliances you get better service and get a better warrenty.
Peter


Post# 205738 , Reply# 21   4/22/2007 at 23:40 (6,213 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
My dad's Duet is getting to the point where it will only tumble in one direction! It'll go closkwise, stop, start going the other way about a quarter turn then reverse to clockwise again! Kinda annoying, it also has a bad habit of filling for a only a few seconds for the final rinse, I've started using the soak to wash. then the drain and spin cycle, the another soak with downy, then a drain and spin, seems to work, but it is ANNOYING!!

Post# 205739 , Reply# 22   4/22/2007 at 23:41 (6,213 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Is that "Outer drum shell" plastic or some kind of die cast metal? Thanks

Post# 205740 , Reply# 23   4/22/2007 at 23:44 (6,213 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
The outer drum is plastic.

Post# 205743 , Reply# 24   4/22/2007 at 23:58 (6,213 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Well,

Bruno looks puurrrfect in the drum!


Do you still have the Calypso to play with?

Good luck, David.



Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 205752 , Reply# 25   4/23/2007 at 01:47 (6,213 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Gosh,

panthera's profile picture
I think your pictures are much prettier than the disassembly film on this machine.
And Bruno, too!
Every brand has its down sides, but three years? Those bearing seals shouldn't be letting any water in at all the first ten, minimum.
I've had very good luck with Miele and LG, but am over here in Europe - American LG must be staffed by in-duh-vi-duals who couldn't get hired by Sears, er, Kenmore, er, Target.
If the water consumption in a vintage machine is too high, I guess you really should go with a Miele. Never mind all the bling-bling - get the simplest one you can. They are all built to the same high standards.
Good luck and keep us informed.
We've got our fingers crossed for you.


Post# 205754 , Reply# 26   4/23/2007 at 02:02 (6,213 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
Post# 205759 , Reply# 27   4/23/2007 at 03:56 (6,213 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Dunno how frugal with water vintage Miele's are; my W1070 is quite lavish with water for both wash and certianly those deep rinses. Then again wouldn't have it any other way.

Am gob-smacked on how much plastic is in that machine. Hardly seems worth all the money they cost, IMHO.

L.



Post# 205776 , Reply# 28   4/23/2007 at 08:48 (6,213 days old) by veg-o-matic (Baltimore, Hon!)        

veg-o-matic's profile picture
I say keep calling Sears/Kenmore service and complaining until they give you what you want just to make you go away. Sometimes it takes a while, but the water-on-stone method really seems to work.

Then, when you get your parts and they're all installed, I suggest you go down to the Queen Ka'ahumanu Sears and throw a high-frequency screaming fit. If you can manage to bitch-slap a salesman or two, even better.

Trust me, honey, you'll feel better!

veg


Post# 205793 , Reply# 29   4/23/2007 at 10:51 (6,213 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Hmmm, I told y'all before that these machines are made by Bauknecht and that Bauknecht is the least reliable German brand according to the Dutch consumer organisation. In about ten years we will see heaps of these machines in landfills. Trust me.

Post# 205836 , Reply# 30   4/23/2007 at 14:06 (6,212 days old) by wash&where? ()        
Sorry

I hate to tell you after all of the labor you have put into this but.....I may have been a very simple fix. On the back of the machine at the top is a round vent cap that attaches to a vent tube. If the vent tube has became loose or if the cap is off, then it will allow the tub to smack the tube at low spin speeds. I purchased Duet at Lowes for 500.00 several years ago and it was missing the cap and it allowed the vent tube to slip and become loose. When it did I noticed just what you were experiencing. It was a super easy fix and has worked fine since. Hopefully you can remember how to reassemble it.

Post# 205874 , Reply# 31   4/23/2007 at 20:09 (6,212 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)        

mayken4now's profile picture
LAWD, maybe pet hair?????????????????????

Post# 205878 , Reply# 32   4/23/2007 at 21:09 (6,212 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
David it looks so much more

jetcone's profile picture
complex than my Bendix yet it just does the same thing. But I can tell if that seal isn't water & vapor tight the bearing will fail in a year with regular use. So even if it is something else that seal still needs to be addressed. And it should be addressed by Sears.

David, I was told these machines are like razor blades to work in once you get them open? Is that true??


jon





Post# 205898 , Reply# 33   4/23/2007 at 22:40 (6,212 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        
I have no intention of taking NO for an answer.

Of course I should have known that Sears would do ANYTHING to get out of thier warranty obligation. I agree with Veg that the water on stone method may be the way. However I am NOT going to bitchslap any of the salespeople-I used to work there; they are my friends. In fact was greeted with a hug by the department manager on saturday (she must be desparate for employees!) So will try to use whatever warmth is in that relationship to get the problem solved.

Just a few comments about my working at Sears: I took the job at Sears appliance dept. knowing that I would hate it and not be there long. I did need a job pronto, and most employers here are hesitant about hiring newcomers. The small family dealer I worked at in St. Paul would sell me appliances for 10 percent above cost-Sears gave me a lousy 10% off this machine. Sears did turn out to be a hellish place to work. The people I worked with still gripe to me about how horrid it is. What shocked me was the complete disconnect between sales and service. As salespeople, we did not even have a phone number to the service department right here on Maui! All we could do to help people with problems was to give out that damned 1-800 number.

I wanted to try to deal with this today, but had a coworker come over from Honolulu, so I actually had to WORK ALL DAY (Veg, can you believe it). Those Oahu boys are a little more under the thumb than I am here on Maui. Should be alone tomorrow so I can take care of my business during company time, the way it should be.

Buying a new washer is not really in the family budget right now, besides I just want this one fixed. If Sears will not help me with this I will put it back together, run it til it really blows up, then go out and get the cheapest plastic tub toploader I can find.


Jon- The machine was not at all like razor blades- I have coffee machines that are deadly that way at work. It was not EASY to take apart. The teardown took about an hour and a half, while I could take apart a direct drive machine in less than half that time with one hand tied behind my back.

wash&where- I wish it was the vent cap. The tub definately has this strange play in it, which the new machines don't have. I wish this was the problem.

Lawrence- I do still have that Calypso. Veg and I played with it while he was here and it did seem to work. It is still sitting under the mango tree, covered with a tarp. Perhaps I need to take another look...

Austin-Just what Maytag are you refering to? I hope not an Epic! I wish I could lay hand on a nice pre-1990 Maytag. Heck, I wish I had that Thor-O-Matic I found for Robert in St. Paul last summer-then I would have a machine that WORKS

Just for fun- A picture of Veg and I under the mango tree with the Calypso


Post# 205903 , Reply# 34   4/23/2007 at 23:09 (6,212 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Very cool pictures David! Not that I'm surprised, but there sure is a lot of plastic in there.

Post# 205949 , Reply# 35   4/24/2007 at 07:01 (6,212 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
Sears succeeds despite themselves.

toggleswitch's profile picture
oh David Good luck.

I never hated Sears until I too sold appliances for them. UGH!!

You are being WAY too kind in your writings of them. Thank you for posting about your Hettie.


Post# 205961 , Reply# 36   4/24/2007 at 07:30 (6,212 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Did you try putting it back together and tightening that nut? There is a weep hole in the bearing seal assy. and some oxidation there is normal and harmless.

Post# 205972 , Reply# 37   4/24/2007 at 09:06 (6,212 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        

Greg-No I have not tried that yet...I will try that later today.

Steve-Yes, it is funny how they do so well, in spite of themselves. I really cannot believe how they treat people once they have the money.

Here we do not have a great deal of choice in appliance dealers. We have Sears, Home Despot, Lowes and a local dealer called Hamai. I did try Hamai, but they weren't all that nice and I know plenty of local people who will NOT deal with them. You could make business with a dealer on Oahu and have Young Brothers barge your stuff over, but why spend your money on another island? We buy Maui when we can to keep the money on this rock.


Post# 205973 , Reply# 38   4/24/2007 at 09:24 (6,212 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

David, Greg is right. We have had to tighten that nut on the big pulley when we got knocking noises, but once tightened, it seemed to stay tight.
I wonder if the cat could walk around in the tub like one of those hamster ball things?
Best wishes,
Tom


Post# 206029 , Reply# 39   4/24/2007 at 16:27 (6,211 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

And from the way people talked about those Duet's you'd think they were indestructable! Thanks for those photos!

That's nice of you to treat your freinds nicely, for those who are wondering about this bitchslap remember, there are several variants that you can use. Here is a refresher of the applicability of the various versions:



CLICK HERE TO GO TO whirlcool's LINK


Post# 206043 , Reply# 40   4/24/2007 at 19:07 (6,211 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        
Gosh i hate to sound stupid...

Thanks pulsator for replying to my post, might be my vision, that center hub that whirls the drum (and 20 pairs of jeans), is seated in plastic. is there some kind of metal support that secures this bearing in the center of that plastic shell, that connects to another metal part, of the cabinet or somekind of suspension system? Im not an engineer but if that came loose during a 1000 rpm spin, i have visions of it doing some serious damage to your house, and anyone near the machine. Not to diminish or disrespect anyone, I find this entire thing scary. must admit i have never heard of one flying apart.

Post# 206060 , Reply# 41   4/24/2007 at 20:32 (6,211 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
Plastic tubs...

These are usually polypropylene, reinforced with glass beads to make them resilient.

Even so, make sure that you empty all pockets of coins, screws, keys, etc., as the spinning drum can cause the object to be shot clean through the outer tub, causing a lovely flood!


Post# 206183 , Reply# 42   4/25/2007 at 09:32 (6,211 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
Pump Guard

Thanks for the great pictures and story!

It appears that the pump guard is accessed by removing the front panel. In the old bendix front loaders, the filter had it's own door. Does this guard collect coins?

Modern manufacturers probably don't want to include an easy to service feature like the old bendix, because, as you can see it's pretty full of crud. Just let it build up and fail and then you can buy an new machine.

Martin


Post# 206616 , Reply# 43   4/26/2007 at 22:50 (6,209 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        
Update-

So i did get around to taking Greg's advice. I remembered to grab my 15/16" socket from my work truck (that's the one I use to adjust the grind on certain Bunn coffee grinders). Didn't want to get the nut all gnarly from my channel locks. So I went and I tightened. And tightened. Rested a few moments and tightened it some more. The handle on my ratchet was darn near bending. Is that tight enough? Check the tub. Nope, it still wobbles from side to side. Crap!

Went down to Queen Ka'ahumanu Sears, hoping to get some help from the department manager who was oh so happy to see me the other day. Of course, she was off today. None of my friends I worked with were there either. The new haole girl who was there has been thoroughly trained in Sears avoidance techniques. She said that I could NOT return the machine for even a portion of the purchase price (something they used to do when I worked there). She calmly listened to my rant then told me she would call the special hotline they have for pissed off customers. They woman on the "pissed hotline" told me that it was the LAW that they send a tech out to verify my "claim". Gosh, those jerks will tell you ANYTHING. She did assure me that if in fact the parts are defective (like I took my machine apart just for the hell of it-there is so little else to do here on Maui)that I will not be charged for the service call. I'll keep you posted on how that all comes down.

So I go back down to where I work and am raving to my coworkers about how Sears is a bunch of blankety-blanks. Our branch manager told me that all Sears service calls are running eight days out. I asked him what makes him so intimate with the inner working of Sears Service Dept. He tells me that his buddy works there. He said that Maui is suppose to have 10 service tech. They currently have seven. Three of those have already put in their notice-including his buddy. This will leave 4 techs and only one of those is license to work with refrigerant. Can you imagine waiting this long to get a fridge or freezer fixed in the tropics. So if any of you handy-dandy types are looking to relocate to paradise, apply at Sears.

A gal Dennis' works with is also having troubles with her Kenmore HE5t. It keeps giving her a "blocked drain" code but her husband got himself a mouthful of hot soapy trying to check it. She got major run-around too and the Sears folks even hung up on her. Her husband was NOT pleased. Husband just bought a used washer from a coworker to get them by. Tori says she has gone from the bling-bling washer to the ghetto washer. At least the ghetto washer works.

Also noticed that Sears is now showing LG machines. I thought of Pete and shuddered.


Post# 206635 , Reply# 44   4/26/2007 at 23:48 (6,209 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Came Loose at 1000

The stainless tub in my Equator combo came loose during it's 1000 rpm final spin. The outer tub is stainless as well. The entire washer banged side to side between the cabinet and the wall in a space with a foot on each side. I thought an airplane had crashed in the apartment. It was horrific and it was tiny.
Kelly


Post# 206647 , Reply# 45   4/27/2007 at 00:06 (6,209 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
OMG. The Sears website has the two different SteamWasher models (for a total of 4) as well as an entry level washer without a heater.

Post# 207035 , Reply# 46   4/28/2007 at 20:32 (6,207 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        
Finally-Some Satisfaction!

So Dennis and I are sitting 'round the house this (saturday) afternoon and the phone rings. It's Sears calling to see if they can come out today instead of Tuesday. Well yah sure you betcha I say!

So the tech come over and I show him my now disassembled machine, explain the noises it makes and show him the play in the tub. First thing he says is that my warranty may be void as I took the machine apart myself. He would have been wiser to wave a red blanket in front of a bull! My tone starts to go up a notch, so he says he will call his manager (who is over on Oahu by the way). He goes out to his truck and calls the manager. He comes back in to tell me that the manager is in a good mood today and that they will send me the parts I need-he even agreed that I do need both the bearing and the new tub. He did make me sign off on some liability thing stating that I would be responsible for reassembling the machine, which is no problem for me. He said the part would arrive in about seven days, which sound awfully quick to us Hawai'i residents.

Oh and I did NOT get charged for the call, so I am reasonably happy-just too bad they didn't just give me what I wanted in the first place. They sure do take chances with burning though a customers good will.

Turns out this Tech is the buddy of my branch manager at Hawaiian Isles. So after we got the business out of the way, we sat for a spell to talk stink about how Sears is pooping on both its employees and its customers. This fellow said he has been with Sears for nearly 10 years and the whole thing has been crumbling with Sears chipping away at his benefits and being so inaccessable for customers. Today was his last day with Sears.

David


Post# 207047 , Reply# 47   4/28/2007 at 23:17 (6,207 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Ugh. sounds like there's no place decent to buy appliances anymore. Now that sears doesn't seem to be willing ot stand behind its customers like it used to, everybody is now the same.

Post# 207057 , Reply# 48   4/29/2007 at 03:13 (6,207 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Be fair, there were many customers that used Sears as a "Rent-a-Center" for appliances. Buying appliances, keeping them for a month or so then returning under Sears former liberal return policy. Some had problems to be sure, others simply "tired" of the model and wanted something different. There was a gal over on THS who must have bought and returned every washing machine brand Sears carried. Am sure at some point the sales people saw her coming and wanted to bolt the door.

It also wouldn't hurt if customers did some homework before buying major appliances, other than go into a shop waving the latest issue of Consumer Reports.


Post# 207058 , Reply# 49   4/29/2007 at 03:26 (6,207 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
great!

panthera's profile picture
I'm happy you got the parts! Let's hope they last 10 years this time...instead of ten months.


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