Thread Number: 12422
Frigies in the houseónot pleased
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Post# 217800   6/23/2007 at 18:41 (4,355 days old) by washabear (Maryland)        

I received my Frigidaire 2140 washer and matching dryer a week ago, and I am not happy. The dryer is fine, but the washer is not. The big problem is that it often will not spin between cycles. It always does the final spin, but between the wash and rinse and between the other rinses, it usually will not spin. The only time it does it is with very light loads (shirts or sheets). With anything else, it tumbles a bit, rotates slowly, tumbles a bit, rotates slowly, and then just gives up. This is crazy. Iíve never had a washer that wouldnít spin before. Iím thinking of returning it.

Post# 217823 , Reply# 1   6/23/2007 at 19:28 (4,355 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
Many American FL washers these days won't do a real spin between the wash and each of the rinses. My dad's Whirlpool Duet washer will distribute and take off to about 300 RPM for 4 or 5 seconds then start filling for the rinse. I've begun to use the soak cycle to wash and then set it to the drain and spin cycle for a full 900 RPM spin then reset to another soak for rinse then another 900 RPM spin and call it done!

Post# 217826 , Reply# 2   6/23/2007 at 19:35 (4,355 days old) by cny4 (Central New York)        

My Affinity does the same thing, I believe this is normal. How are your clothes coming out? Mine are cleaner than ever with this machine.

Post# 217831 , Reply# 3   6/23/2007 at 19:57 (4,355 days old) by passatdoc (Orange County, California)        
i notice the same thing

It seems to spin at low speed (i am guessing 300 rpm) for about a minute between the rinses. But as cny4 reported, the clothes come out very clean. I guess it's supposed to work like that.

How are your clothes coming out?


Post# 217834 , Reply# 4   6/23/2007 at 20:21 (4,355 days old) by washabear (Maryland)        

You mean this is NORMAL? Sheesh! I guess I have some stuff to get used to.

Clothes are coming out fine. I haven't really noticed an appreciable difference in cleaning versus my old top loader, but the clothes are fine. At first, I thought they were coming out too hard, but turning down the heat on the dryer solved that, and now they come out nice and soft.

Thanks!


Post# 217849 , Reply# 5   6/23/2007 at 21:12 (4,355 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        
FWIW

launderess's profile picture
My vintage Miele for "Cottons" rinse, does two deep rinses (fill, tumble, drain) then a quick 30 second low spin, another deep rinse, then a final rinse before the final spin sequence. This is on top of adding heaps of cold water at the end of the wash cycle.

Rinsing is process of dilution, thus one does not need to nor should spin too fast between rinses as it can lead to muck being forced back into the wash. Also depending upon wash temperature and how the machine cools down the water temperature, spinning too fast too soon can cause creases that will take ages of ironing (if then), to remove. You can see this if one takes laundry hot from a twin tub and puts it right into the spinner for a spin without cooling it down first.

L.


Post# 217850 , Reply# 6   6/23/2007 at 21:20 (4,355 days old) by passatdoc (Orange County, California)        

Launderess, your description of the rinse process fits my machine to a t. You described exactly what I see going on in my machine, though I usually select the Extra Rinse option, so that there are at least three rinses.

Post# 217878 , Reply# 7   6/23/2007 at 23:11 (4,355 days old) by pumper (SE Wisconsin)        

pumper's profile picture
my 2140 does the same thing, and that's why it has been replaced by a toploader. it is unable to balance the load 90% of the time regardless of how much or little is in the drum and ends up spinning only after the final rinse, and that's only because it keeps trying until it's satisfied. a test wash of my whites with no detergent was still getting suds out after 4 full wash cycles. i've seen that drum ramping up to spin with absolutely no wobble, then it will stop as if it were off balance.

Post# 217913 , Reply# 8   6/24/2007 at 02:17 (4,355 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
spins

panthera's profile picture
The logic in some units only monitors current speed and compares this to desired speed, if increasing voltage to the motor does not result in a steady speed up, it assumes something is wrong and reacts. Just how it reacts depends on the programming as well as whether other things are being monitored.

These machines are much more sensitive to level floors than TLs are. Enormously so. They also have trouble dealing with the resonances which come up in wooden floors. If your machine is having trouble setting up the spins - especially the final spin, then you can help it a lot by:

1) Leveling the machine, setting the spirit level against the front and sides of the cabinet as well as on top. It has to be level side to side as well as front to back.

2) Try putting the machine in a corner of the room, corners are stronger and resonate less.

3) Put a very dense panel under it. 3/4 inch pressboard or marine HDF; or similar. This will span the floor boards and distribute the weight better. I have seen this trick done so often, incredible how much it helps (not all European floors are reinforced concrete).

Laundress is right, you don't want too much spin between rinses - (remember, these spins speeds are much higher than most TLs so more efficient) (even allowing for the greater diameter of the TL-Tubs, we are so not going there again...).

All the current Stiftung Warentest results I have read continue to give these machines good ratings for people with allergies. Of course, we have seen European machines dumbed-down for the US market before...


Post# 217914 , Reply# 9   6/24/2007 at 02:22 (4,355 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
forgot somethings

panthera's profile picture
One thing which caught me off-guard when I first came to Europe was the way FLs pump water out.
In the US, TLs use "timed drain". The timer motor runs for a length of time equal to what the designers think the tub needs to drain completely plus a safety factor.
FLs monitor the water level in the outer tub. Once all the water has been pumped out, that's it. It only takes as long as needed.
Don't forget - you aren't pumping out zillions of gallons here, just a few, so it is also going to go much faster.
A really unlikely possibility, but I've made this mistake before...were absolutely all the packaging and transport nuts, bolts, materials, etc. removed?


Post# 217944 , Reply# 10   6/24/2007 at 09:42 (4,354 days old) by dadoes (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
In the US, TLs use "timed drain". The timer motor runs for a length of time equal to what the designers think the tub needs to drain completely plus a safety factor.
Panthera, it's dangerous to make blanket statements like that. :-)

TLs with mechanical timers have fixed-time drains. Some with electronic controls do have variable drain periods. The first Whirlpool electronic TL (LFA9800 in 1977/1978) timed the drain as double the time required for water level pressure switch to reset + 30 seconds. My F&Ps are variable based on water level pressure readings, and I'm thinking the Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos siblings are as well. (True, F&P is of NZ origin, but they're now being produced at a facility in Clyde, OH.) My Calypso appears to have mostly timed drains, but it does monitor water level as part of the process for purpose of detecting pump failures ("Long Drain" error codes).


Post# 217946 , Reply# 11   6/24/2007 at 09:55 (4,354 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        
DADoes Is Back!

launderess's profile picture
And on form.

*LOL*

L.


Post# 217950 , Reply# 12   6/24/2007 at 10:38 (4,354 days old) by decodriveboy (FL, US)        

Don't worry about the spin. I have the same 2140 and on the normal and heavy cycles it will spin between each rinse (usually) if it's not off balance--though it is finicky about that. The PP cycle does not. I wouldn't return it as it's a great machine and a very good price for the features you get.

Post# 217961 , Reply# 13   6/24/2007 at 12:16 (4,354 days old) by lavamat_jon (-)        
Interim spins

I've found that fast interim spins are crucial to rinsing, especially with modern water saving machines. Although rinsing is a process of dilution, interim spins spin as much soap (as well as dirt) out of the laundry as possible before the rinse cycle even begins - which means that the rinses don't need to rinse out as much to start with and thus can use less water/rinses.

My Miele will spin at 1000 for about 2-4 minutes after the wash (depending how heavy the load is), then at 2 mins at 1000 between each rinse, my AEG will spin for about 2 mins at 800 after the wash, increasing the speed by 200 after each rinse (i.e 1000 after rinse 1, 1200 after rinse 2, 1400 after rinse 3, before the final rinse) - and when using low water levels laundry was better rinsed using 2 or 3 rinses than our old GEC made Creda and Hotpoint machines which would do 4 high level rinses with not as much spinning between the rinses. Conversely, our Bosch Exxcel had slow interim spins combined with low water level rinses, and this was the worst rinsing machine we ever had, so interim spins are important.

Adding to that, I've never had trouble with dirt being spun back into laundry (IMO I think it is an urban myth), and laundry is no more creased than if you used slow spins. Besides, if you are washing laundry that is prone to creasing you should use a more suitable cycle rather than a cottons cycle.

Only time nowadays I use higher water levels (fortunately I can programme this into the Miele and AEG), is for the vintage effect.

Jon


Post# 217971 , Reply# 14   6/24/2007 at 13:32 (4,354 days old) by sadose ()        

I agree in the fact that interim spinning is of benefit to rinsing ability in modern machines which use less water. However I have found that this can compromise on the machines ability to give a perfectly clean result. I have now had my Miele W4446WPS for 3 months, which performs its interim spinning in the exact same manner as Jon described above. However I feel that the centrifugal force of a fast spin of 1000rpm in my case or more with some other European machines after the wash cycle before rinsing commences can actually compromise the final result especially on white and pastel/light coloured washing. I agree in the fact that despite most modern detergents containing agents to repel soil redeposition, it can happen as a result of this spinning action. This action is effective in ensuring thorough rinsing but of course you wash your textiles for a reason, and that is to remove soil as opposed to simply redistributing it onto garments and thus as a result of the composition of modern detergents, its not always a case by where the rinsing action is able to remove the redeposited soiling. From a European perspective, and of course this is a matter of personal opinion and nothing more, I feel that an extra 10-15 litres of water per cycle used in rinsing would produce a more acceptable final result. In my opinion, some form of water extraction is essential following the main wash, but nothing of which would consist of excessive revolutions per minute, if this is followed by faster interim spinning in between rinses then so be it as then the benefit will show through. Just a matter of personal opinion that I have found with my latest machine so I thought I would share! :)

Saj


Post# 217975 , Reply# 15   6/24/2007 at 13:48 (4,354 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Timed Drains, Timed Fills, Timed Out

panthera's profile picture
I am glad you are back. Certainly, there are some US TL machines - what, 0.01% of those in use? - which use logic to monitor the drain cycle.
But we are talking about experiences with the first FL here, so I permitted myself the luxury of not discussing every possible exception.
There has got to be some room for generalizations or we will all get bogged down in absurd discussions.



Post# 218007 , Reply# 16   6/24/2007 at 19:15 (4,354 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Bruce, I have a 1st genreation Frigidaire Front Loader and I love the machine. At best it does 2 short burst spins between the wash, first rinse, and 2nd rinse, and before the final 4th rinse. I have no complaints and in fact, it rinses better than my 1986 DD Lady Kenmore. Front loaders are a totally different process, even rinsing. One bear to another, walk away form the machine if the intricaciesa bug ya to death. If the clothes are coming out fine, that's the key!! And yes, glad you found out using lower drying temps improves softness. Why, becuse less moisture is in the dryer for a shorterr period of time and less of a "steam" effect.

Post# 218128 , Reply# 17   6/25/2007 at 08:02 (4,354 days old) by washabear (Maryland)        

Thanks for the additional replies. Sorry for the delay in my reply; I was away most of the day yesterday. The machine is level, and all the shipping pieces were removed. It sits on a concrete basement floor. It never has a problem with the final spin and always does that without fail and without vibrating, shaking, or rumbling (and makes a pretty cool sound while doing it). I guess Iím just confused about the interim phases and am unfamiliar with how they work.

Of course, if I stopped sitting in front of the thing watching it like a television, that might help! Iím sure that novelty will wear off soon.

Thanks again for your help.


Post# 218185 , Reply# 18   6/25/2007 at 15:01 (4,353 days old) by rp2813 (West Coast)        
Balancing and Rinsing

rp2813's profile picture
Jay, my full size Duet washer does the same thing, it appears to be balanced nearly perfectly and yet it still feels the need to redistribute. This is the most annoying thing about FL machines IMO, as it's frustrating to see the machine's drum rotating so smoothly only to have it slow down and redistribute to be more off balance. Why these machines don't quit while they're ahead of the balancing game I don't know, but it's definitely a weak point in the design and engineering.

Bruce, my machine doesn't do a very high speed spin for the rinse either but my laundry doesn't come out smelling like detergent, so the clothes are definitely getting a thorough rinsing. The big test was towels. They always smelled like detergent after my old TL was done with them. Now they have no detergent smell at all after running them through my Duet.

I still find myself watching my Duet in action sometimes, but trust me, the novelty level will wear off from what it is for you right now. In the meantime, enjoy the show!

Ralph



Post# 218198 , Reply# 19   6/25/2007 at 15:58 (4,353 days old) by pumper (SE Wisconsin)        

pumper's profile picture
I just releveled mine to make sure, and may call for service next week just to see what they have to say about it. Maybe the shocks are too weak and need to be replaced.

Post# 218202 , Reply# 20   6/25/2007 at 16:39 (4,353 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
rebalancing

panthera's profile picture
I find the number of complaints about machines balancing and rebalancing their loads from the folks in the US interesting. Sure, my LG every so often will get upset and rebalance stuff. Once in a blue moon, it will go through an extra rinse cycle and once, in seven years, it stopped after several attempts and played a melody while the display flashed an "out-of-balance, spin not possible, do something!" at me.
My last Miele was just the same.
Are the US machines set to be more sensitive? Are the folks UNDERloading them - the biggest cause of out-of-balance is just one heaving item?
Or is it just that we are so used to the 45+ minute rinse and spin cycles that we don't notice it anymore?


Post# 218204 , Reply# 21   6/25/2007 at 16:56 (4,353 days old) by rp2813 (West Coast)        

rp2813's profile picture
I do think under-loading can be a contributing factor and likely the cause for some of my Duet's balancing issues. But why it wants to re-balance a load that is rotating very smoothly even at low speed makes no sense to me. Without fail, when it does that it only makes the balance worse, since it couldn't have been better balanced before it decided to quit and redistribute. That's my main complaint about my Duet. The "minutes remaining" readout can stay stuck on "6" for a good 15 or 20 as it continues to redistribute over and over. It seems that once it gets down to about 4 minutes remaining it will just spin as best it can and get the cycle overwith, though. A waste of time, energy and wear and tear on the clothes and the machine. I still love my machine but this one quirk is truly annoying.

Post# 218209 , Reply# 22   6/25/2007 at 17:18 (4,353 days old) by washabear (Maryland)        

Panthera, Iím not sure about underloading, but I havenít washed just one item in my machine.

Here are a couple of recent (usual) loads: (1) four large bath towels, three hand towels, two washcloths, six pairs of underwear (yeah, I put the underwear in with the towels because I run the hot cycle on those, and theyíre all ďbody-contactĒ items); (2) one pair of jeans, one pair of khakis, two pairs of cargo shorts, two polo shirts, two T-shirts, one pair of fleece shorts, one sport shirt, three pairs of socks. I donít think either example would be considered underloading, and I would also think that there would be an ample variety of items in each to balance the load. I have come to the conclusion from the above posts that the interim tumbleĖslow rotate between wash and rinses that I am seeing must just be a function of the machine and something Iíll have to grow to live with. I do notice, though, that when I wash a load of, say, six sport shirts and nothing else, the machine spins faster during the interim cycles. Go figure.

Tell me if Iím doing something wrong.

Thanks.


Post# 218244 , Reply# 23   6/25/2007 at 19:21 (4,353 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Sounds like the loads are pretty full, although it depends upon your garment sizes too. I'm a front load engineering designers dream when it comes to laundry. My loads are pretty much full and pretty much consist of like items. I'll wash 6-8 pairs of kakhis together. 13-20 poly/cotton shirts. 2 sets of quenn size sheets (although that's really pushing it for my 3.1 cu. ft. Fridgemore). 6-8 bath towels and wash clothes and a few hand towels. 24-28 pairs of jockeys & t-shirts, a couple pairs of white sox, and a few kitchen towels and ish clothes. Yup, my loads are pretty much BobLoads and are all uniform in weight. I don't have too much balancing issues. 8-10 golf shirts & t-shirts are somewhat a challenge because of balancing sometimes but it's cuz the load isn't full. As proven by my BobLoad of towels at Glenn's, the F&P holds more towels in a load than my Fridgemore does. In the winter, maybe 4-6 pair (sets) of sweats. 16 PermPress long-sleeve shirts.

Post# 218249 , Reply# 24   6/25/2007 at 19:42 (4,353 days old) by washabear (Maryland)        

Sixteen shirts at a time? Geez! I would do no more than six because they get wrinkled after that. I will not iron. I haven't owned an iron since 1987, and I plan on keeping it that way!


Post# 218284 , Reply# 25   6/25/2007 at 21:54 (4,353 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
I may wash them in the same load, but I don't dry them in the same load. That's where the wrinkles come in. My shredmore could hold about 9 or 10 of them on delicate, so that's how many I dry in the dryer.

Post# 218307 , Reply# 26   6/25/2007 at 23:06 (4,353 days old) by dadoes (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
That BOBLOADģ of shirts I did on Sat evening, didn't count how many but it was likely more than sixteen. Dried as one. A few cotton specimens were a bit wrinkled, being as I usually hang those to dry.

Post# 220866 , Reply# 27   7/5/2007 at 13:57 (4,343 days old) by pumper (SE Wisconsin)        

pumper's profile picture
I've had issues with my 2140 not spinning, and so I got out the level and spent a good 15 mins releveling it and it's about as perfect as it going to get. It does spin much better now. Even with the tub bouncing around it will spin, before it wouldn't spin even if it was perfect. Go figure...

Post# 220875 , Reply# 28   7/5/2007 at 14:38 (4,343 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

Like Bob, I'll wash a big load of shirts, but since the Frigidaire dryer has a smallish drum, I usually only dry 5 shirts at a time. They dry quickly, so it doesn't take all that long to get through them all. I hate to iron. I'm drying all my short sleeve work shirts on the clothesline this summer. If there's a good breeze (and there usually is in this part of the country), even the all-cotton models barely need a quick touch-up with the iron.

Post# 224515 , Reply# 29   7/22/2007 at 15:26 (4,326 days old) by toploader ()        

I have noticed the same problems with soap in a friend's 2140. He can run 3 more full wash cycles without adding soap and there is still soap coming out of the clothes. Any "water savings" are wasted dealing with getting the rest of the soap out the clothes by running more wash cycles. I am glad I am a "Toploader".

Post# 224719 , Reply# 30   7/23/2007 at 17:10 (4,325 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
Rinsing, be defintion, requires water. The more the better.

You may want to try the Sears brand powdered detergent. works great, no suds, rinses well.


Post# 224726 , Reply# 31   7/23/2007 at 17:53 (4,325 days old) by decodriveboy (FL, US)        
Water "Required"

But remember.... thanks to Energy Star, we now know that all you need is just a cup of water to thoroughly wash and rinse your 21 pairs of jeans! Amazing!




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