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Thread Number: 13896
New Washer, Fisher & Paykel or Bosch |
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| Post# 238713 , Reply# 1 9/26/2007 at 22:55 (6,056 days old) by bimmer740 () | ||
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Sorry, I meant the Bosch Nexxt 500 | ||
Post# 238718 , Reply# 3 9/26/2007 at 23:19 (6,056 days old) by dadoes  (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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What is your specific F&P model? If it's an "eco" machine, my first guess is the divertor valve, not the control board. A cheap fix if so. Note: The machine does a neutral drain .. meaning the tub must be emptied of wash or rinse water *before* it will spin .. although of course the pump also runs during spin. | ||
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Post# 238741 , Reply# 4 9/27/2007 at 02:08 (6,055 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Another option for a reasonably priced but effective front loader is the Frigidaire Affinity. It will be easy to get parts/service for, and has an internal water heater and a non-tilted drum. Although Consumer Reports gave it so-so reviews, the user feedback I've seen in various forums has been positive and I think CR perhaps didn't select the correct combination of cycle/wash temp. In fact it should be easier to get service/parts than the Bosch or LG.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO sudsmaster's LINK | ||
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Post# 238742 , Reply# 5 9/27/2007 at 02:18 (6,055 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 238756 , Reply# 6 9/27/2007 at 03:38 (6,055 days old) by irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City) | ||
My vote is for the Bosch | ||
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Post# 238789 , Reply# 7 9/27/2007 at 09:36 (6,055 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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I'd go for the Bosch too1 | ||
| Post# 238857 , Reply# 10 9/27/2007 at 17:16 (6,055 days old) by funguy10 () | ||
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So you are going to fix the one you have? If you are, I reccomend www.fixitnow.com... for help to fix it. CLICK HERE TO GO TO funguy10's LINK | ||
| Post# 239148 , Reply# 11 9/28/2007 at 18:33 (6,054 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa) | ||
Hello steven i have worked in appliances for a long while and could shed some lite on a few things. first lets not forget this website is for the love of washing and it's washers. all machines frount&top loading have pluses & minuses, front loading saves water, energy, detergent and the best that i love about any front loaders are high spin speeds. of course the higher the number is the less time in the dryer which is were the bulk of your energy is.In your F&P washer you are at 1000RPM which is good in european spin class ratings. 1000-1200 is class C this is very good at 1200. that is what my bosch spins at and my clothes are ready in 25 min depending on the size of the load and my largest is still around 45 min.1300&1400RPM is class b. 1600 is class A and thats as far as we go in the usa. of course in europe there are some machines that go 1800&2000 RPM's WOW! Secondly the heating factor i like. a true hot wash for white cottons and most higher end models give you a heated wash at 125 ferenheit. 135f 140f 153f 155f 170f & 205f 140& 155 are usally the range most are at and what we in the usa like. most americans dont know or are not into hot washes or not educated about it. europeans no this well that thermal heat really cleans and sanitize clothes without the use of bleach and it really does. thats the beauty of the front.I have a bosch neext premium and it is built very well, has great programs. they have 6 models. i advise to at least get the thermal units from bosch. they are really water tight though i just add my own extra water to the machine. that said here are the models that gives you a nice high water level theres only two ive witness Asko W6461 has a high water level button and a 1600 rpm spin speed. there built like mac trucks. 3 yr warrenty parts & labor. the downfall is the capacity is 13 pounds which is eqivelent to 8 or 9 towels or one bedding or 4 or 5 pairs of jeans. u have to think euro washing and it's not bad considering all of the savings u get with asko. ive sold 11 of them in the past 7 yrs havent had any call backs put there a little pricey over $1500 or 1600 hundred in basic white but supposed to last 20yrs or more if u take care it.the other is my favs whirlpool LHW0050PQ made by eurotech has a high water level in all washes 799$ great machine for the price.made by asko and for tops F&P or cabrio or oasis great water level. the new F&P with the wash plate has two modes eco & traditional wash modes . love these washers!! i think one day they will be standard in all top loaders .the invisble agitator with reveres rollover and the traditional agitator models are nice. As far as the fronts being stable wood floors and spriginess are not good. my customers usually reinforce the the flooring,but asko, bosch, miele are the most stable. they weigh a ton. miele are the cream of the crop. either way frontloading machines are here to stay .call your manufactures and tell them what u want in a front loader other wise there very quiet and really does give u better care on textiles. every professional laundry & drycleaning machines all use the (wheel) as the call it. P.S. sometimes its not good to have high water levels in certain fabrics because of dye bleeding and pilling so hand wash & delicate programs and special tumble rythems are great and know toploader cant match that.please e-mail me for furthur discussion on of this topic. and as far as mold and mildew in a front i NEVER had a problem becase i wipe the gasket and leave the door ajar. peaple dont like to take care of the machines so thats what happens ya little more matenience but will worth it.thanks Darren k | ||
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Post# 239175 , Reply# 14 9/28/2007 at 21:18 (6,054 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 239284 , Reply# 16 9/29/2007 at 08:14 (6,053 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Enough of your ranting about frontloaders mr Funguy. Have you ever owned one or do you have extensive experience with it? I think it's all hearsay what you are bringing up here. Frontloaders need HE detergent or low sudsing because it has a total different washing action. Older frontloaders that used lots of water still needed a low sudsing detergent too. It's not about the amount of water, it's about the wash action. And I know, I've been washing with frontloaders for years and years. The action of a frontloader is based on the same action as was used when our ancestors washed in a river and used a stone to slap the laundry on. Frontloaders imitate this action by letting the clothes fall on the side of the drum, not in the water. If you ever took interest in that oldfashioned way of washing, you know that that rock wasn't in the water, but above the water level, hence the low water levels in the wash cycle. To get a decent rinse, a frontloaders has several rinses unlike most toploaders. With spins between those rinses the soap gets just as well or perhaps even better. So stop bashing frontloaders, you don't have a clue about them. Personally I like both frontloaders and toploaders and both have their advantages. They are both washers and can give you a lot of fun and clean laundry too. Steven, Good luck with your Bosch, I think you made a good choice. Let us know about your experiences with it. Louis | ||
| Post# 241443 , Reply# 19 10/10/2007 at 03:44 (6,042 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa) | ||
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Hello steven congrates on your bosch washer! I have the nexxt premium line and at that time my sanitary cycle is 155fht 170 came out this year i worked for bsh for a while, stands for bosch seammens home app,170will hold at the end of the cycle for three min and then cool down. Its great for truly soiled whites. steve sometime i add water to the basket for higher water levels for larger loads & comforters I think euro when washing in frounts medium to small loads, u get pretty good results frount loaders like eveness shirts with shirts jeans, sheets. towels,like that, u get a good balence im a sepretess in a good way lol. Bosch has the best wash baffles have u notice when going in the right direction they left the clothes higher, and when turning left the softer paddle scoops the water and rain on the clothes it only goes in the left direction in handwash so it want left to high clever!, not new to seammons,they did that in the uk for a while calling it 3-d&4-d action.Yes persil is high but the machine loves it no suds it took awhile to get use to but it cleans great there are a variate of persil prod theres one for whites & colors, & wool, powder or liqued any HE product. But i use regular as well cheer dark farmula it dosent really foam or cheer color guard half a cup or more for heavey soil and i put all my darks on delicate with cheer products and very little fadding, and i press no spin for my cotton black clothes or any dark cottons because i want a higher spin speed, i go right to spin at 1200 yours 1100 and ofcouse much faster in the dryer that dryer is fast is'nt it wow! Anyway delicates cycle has less drum movements less drum movements less were and fadding my friend works in drycleaning and they wetclean laundry washed in water and use a bosch for wetcleaning and use the delicate cycle and does the same thing mentioned above and handwash for really nicer textiiles. That said woolite HE is on the market. I love the soak program i use as prewash or overnight soak and no spin and wake up drain it and start a new program for whites. Im up late want to talk to u somemore about the units pretty longwended i just want u to get the maximum out of them P.S. please use liqued softner u get really clean rinses if u dont like the sent get downey free woow thats a start! you have a lot of flexabilty good choice. best Darren k
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| Post# 241444 , Reply# 20 10/10/2007 at 03:53 (6,042 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa) | ||
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Post# 241651 , Reply# 26 10/11/2007 at 00:27 (6,041 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Steven,
Since basically all machines over here in Europe are FLs, all our detergents are, unless specifically labeled otherwise, HE. Of course they are much cheaper than in the US, partly because of the competition, partly because they are nothing 'special' as in the US. Color Persil, like all the Persil variations is good stuff. Basically, it trades strong bleach and whiteners for especially effective enzymes, fabric 'protectors' (Laundress could tell you more about that) and special elements which prevent or minimize color transfer. But you can buy those sheets which do the same thing in the US. Personally, I have found that 'Vollwaschmittel' from Persil does not attack my colored clothing enough to justify the difference...but that is because I wash colors at 40°C (that would be slightly hotter than American 'Hot' and is considered barely warm here.) Once the temperature and wash time goes up to a heavy duty 60°C load (that is 140°F and a good 20°F warmer than US Hot,) standard Persil does bleach colors and will cause some color running with non-fast colors. If you are thinking of running clothes at European temperatures, then color Persil will please you. If you want to run them in the much cooler water Americans generally use, I suspect you will be disappointed. Remember, European detergents are designed for much longer wash times, much warmer water and cycles which begin with cold water and then heat it gradually, giving the enzymes and other cleaning agents the perfect environment to do their jobs. They probably are too weak and ineffective for the faster, colder US cycles. I use two European FLs in the US regularly when I am there. Both give very good results despite the short wash times and lower water temperature of only 120° when I use HE All Liquid together with Baby Biz. I always add those funny little sheets which absorb non-color-fast bleeding. | ||
| Post# 241782 , Reply# 28 10/11/2007 at 15:41 (6,041 days old) by funguy10 () | ||
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Bimmer740, Why else did you chost the Bosch over the Fisher & Paykel? It does not need a pedastal either because it is Top-Loading, obviously. | ||
| Post# 241918 , Reply# 30 10/12/2007 at 00:41 (6,040 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa) | ||
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Steven hello i was woundering what cycles do like so far? and have you witness faster drying times then the f&p pair? and do you like the water levels? i hope to have been some help on the bosch pair the sell alot in the white goods buisness. What detergents & additives are you likeing so far Thanks Darren K
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Post# 244081 , Reply# 32 10/23/2007 at 00:28 (6,029 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Steven, I wouldn't worry about it at all. First of all, there probably still quite a bit of detergent residue left in your clothes from the F&P. Second, Bosch is known to be very sensitive to sudsing as well as producing more suds than most of the other front loaders on the market. And yes, you're over-dosing on deterent if it's having to consistently go into a suds routine to remove excess suds. That should be your first clue.
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Post# 244095 , Reply# 33 10/23/2007 at 02:14 (6,029 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Steven,
I have a suggestion. Run a load of heavy cottons (towels, for instance) through a wash cycle with hot water and a water softener like Calgon. This will rid them of residual detergent and give you a working index for judging what is too much and what is ok on detergent level. Living between both cultures, I have to say that I am still not all that crazy about American HE detergents. I think they are overpriced and not really fully adapted. Contact a Miele or BOSCH dealer who sells European Persil or similar. I know it is outrageously expensive, but buy the smallest box possible and give it a try. Personally, I would take the "Vollwaschmittel" and not the Color variation. American versions of our washers use so much cooler water, even for "hot" than we do that I don't think the Color variation will produce the results you want. Oh, to answer a question you asked prior to purchase. I have always had Miele or LG. LG was rated better for pet hair the last time I bought a machine, so that is what I went with. I would not wish LG on anyone in the US; here they take care of their customers, there they shit on them. My experience with Miele has been very good. My last Miele is still running, I gave it to friends. Now in its second decade, it has only had one repair...and that was their fault, not the machine's. Over here in Germany, Miele is more expensive than Bosch, but nowhere near the price it is in the US. It's the snob appeal, I guess. Over time, our consumer guides rank the machines more or less thus: Miele AEG BOSCH/Siemens/Constructa and then everything else. If you ever get a chance to pick up a used Miele, do. If the cesspool problem is that bad, why not go for the grey water solution. That is legal now in Long Island, no? Thought I read something about that a while back. In any case, BOSCH is a good choice, 10000x better than anything built by Whirlpool. Oh, Funguy...just a commment. I, too, get super-duper excited about some topics and regularly get slammed by the UK folk for it. Maybe you should try toning it down just a bit? I base my comments on having worked in the used white goods business, selling new Mieles/AEGs and having worked both with Bauknecht and B/S/H...there is nothing wrong with being young, you'll get over that...but really and truly, since the rest of the world has been using FLs for many decades, and we don't all have them anchored to 15" steel reinforced concrete pads, maybe you should read up on the advances in fuzzy logic and solid state electronics over the last fifty years or so. | ||
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Post# 244299 , Reply# 35 10/24/2007 at 00:54 (6,028 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Vollwaschmittel
Implies you can use it for everything except woolens and silk. In reality, it has bleaches and, over time, would fade colors if you washed in 140°F water constantly. But for normal, colorfast things you wash in "American" warm temperatures I think you will find it works wonders. Laundress could give you a very thorough breakdown of which European detergents work best in US conditions. ("Voll-" in this context implies "universal" or "Complete", "Waschmittel" is a compound noun, Wasch=Laundry or (who'd a' thunk it?: wash!) and "Mittel" is a substance or compound. A Color Waschmittel has less aggressive bleaches (in the US it may have very aggressive bleaches, but they don't kick in until the water is very very hot. Practical, when you think about it) . A "Schon" Waschmittel is for delicates, "fine" things... German Vollwaschmittel tend to have enzymes for gummy thing,s fats, proteins and to "snip" off loose cellulose fibers. Since our sewage treatment plants permit the use of phosphates and other really powerful surfactants, they can get clothes clean and still leave them soft. My feeling is, however, that over time my clothes fade a bit more here in Europe than they do in the US. Since the only real difference is the detergent, I suspect that, over time, a Vollwaschmittel and really hot water is not the best choice for really bright colors. | ||
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Post# 244981 , Reply# 42 10/28/2007 at 14:29 (6,024 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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John,
Persil is sold more or less everywhere - I am surprised you weren't able to find it. The next time you head on over, take a look at the Henkel website for Persil www.persil.de... and you will find a section called "service". Give them a call and they can tell you who has it in the town you are in. Generally speaking, I wouldn't expect to find it at the very largest discount stores, they have their own brands. Try one of the following: Hertie Karstadt Kaufhof Tenglemann Plus Schlecker (as someone recently, mentioned, not a nice store to its employees) These stores carry Henkel products in their normal program. If your German isn't up to a conversation, give me a few days notice in advance and I will find out for you. | ||
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Post# 244986 , Reply# 43 10/28/2007 at 14:54 (6,024 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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