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Thread Number: 15300
Pics of KD2-P and Drain Valve Issues |
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| Post# 257795 1/5/2008 at 06:18 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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| Post# 257797 , Reply# 1 1/5/2008 at 06:20 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Drain Valve | ||
| Post# 257799 , Reply# 2 1/5/2008 at 06:21 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Here she is... | ||
| Post# 257801 , Reply# 3 1/5/2008 at 06:22 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Interior | ||
| Post# 257805 , Reply# 4 1/5/2008 at 06:25 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Drain Valve | ||
| Post# 257808 , Reply# 5 1/5/2008 at 06:30 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Sump | ||
| Post# 257810 , Reply# 6 1/5/2008 at 06:31 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Sump | ||
Post# 257828 , Reply# 8 1/5/2008 at 08:58 (5,955 days old) by gansky1  (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Very nice machine! Your drain valve issue is a common one with these vintage KA's - Steve's idea about catching the water in something for the time being is a pretty good one. A couple of people here have had good luck with those valves "healing" themselves after using them for a while. Once things get hot and wet and used for a while, the parts start to behave again. Some chanting and incantations can't hurt either ;-) Exhaustive searches for spare parts have been done and it's rare to find them, but you never know. Try the old KitchenAid dealers in your area - Hobart distributors in the area may have some old parts around too. Good luck - it's worth the effort for sure, what a beauty! | ||
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Post# 257829 , Reply# 9 1/5/2008 at 09:03 (5,955 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
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You could also take the cork out (if you can get it out with damaging it) and put some silicone on it and force it back in. Let it dry overnight and that should cure the cork leak. You know, if you cannot find that drain valve assembly, you could put a drain valve (its a flow through valve) from a later KA dishwasher a bit further down the drain hose line and seal up the original plunger. I'm sure the later drain valves are still available. I've used this KA drain valve procedure in early Bendix bolt-down washers and it has worked perfecly. | ||
| Post# 257837 , Reply# 11 1/5/2008 at 09:28 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Thanks Guys
Some really great ideas. Coldspot 66 is on his way to Prince-O-Perc's party today. He's offered to take a look as well. I am so nervous about some of this stuff I just don't want to damage anything. As I said before, I am not a tech.,but I suppose yoou have to learn sooner or later. I am Very Happy about the compliments. I feel she's a real peach. Here's a few more pics : 
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| Post# 257839 , Reply# 12 1/5/2008 at 09:29 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Silverware Basket | ||
| Post# 257841 , Reply# 13 1/5/2008 at 09:32 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Original Label on Lid | ||
| Post# 257844 , Reply# 14 1/5/2008 at 09:33 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Control Dial | ||
| Post# 257845 , Reply# 15 1/5/2008 at 09:36 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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This is the Kicker | ||
| Post# 257846 , Reply# 16 1/5/2008 at 09:45 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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To Retro Man NH | ||
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Post# 258018 , Reply# 17 1/5/2008 at 23:19 (5,955 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Nice shots, Eddie. That's the first I've seen of the KD2P dishwasher detergent dispenser. Mine came without one, and so I've been using gel-packs instead. These work fine, but... Also the photo of the "loading position" for the center top rack is helpful. For some reason my KD2P manual doesn't mention that. I've been hanging it off the side of the machine but the position indicated might be better. Question: does the lid on your machine stay down when the latch is released, or does it pop up? I had to restore the hinges on my machine, and had to find new springs. I finally settled on a hinge/spring combination that keeps the top up when it raised, but the lid will pop up as soon as the latch is release. Not a problem for me, but perhaps an issue if someone unfamiliar with the dishwasher might inadvertantly release the lid and it might fly up uncontrolled and damage something... | ||
| Post# 258038 , Reply# 18 1/6/2008 at 03:07 (5,955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Mr. Sudsmaster
The lid on my machine does spring open. I adjusted the tension on the cover springs as it would only remain open 1/2 way which was a pain. The soap dispensor is cool. I am still amazed at the overall condition of this machine. I remember the first one I saw like that was on a 50's model Under the counter KA when I was about 9-10 yrs old. Now...My owner's manuel on page four illustrates the "loading" position for the center of the top rack on Page 4. I was wondering myself "What the hell do you do with this thing while loading". Then after reading the manuel for about the 12 th time, there it is. Tell me...Do you use your machine on a daily basis ? I use my Kenwhirl most of the time, and then I'll use the Mobile Maid for a few days, and I'm hoping soon to be using the KA. Thanks for writing. | ||
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Post# 258044 , Reply# 19 1/6/2008 at 04:47 (5,955 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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The quality of the build on the KD2P is excellent. I noticed that when I had it apart, that every square inch of the thing is porcelain glass over steel - even the underside and sides of the tub and inside of the cabinet panels. It is clearly built to last. Well, not the pot metal hinges - be careful - the ones on mine were broken (at the point where the springs attach), probably from the lid flying open once too often. So I made new hinges out of billet stainless steel. I don't use the KD2P as much as I would like, mainly because its in a second kitchen on an enclosed patio. I don't generate too many dishes out there, so the workhorse is the Bosch SHU43C in the main kitchen. Occasionally when I have too many dishes to load into the Bosch I'll run the extra stuff in the KD, partly to keep the drain valve in action. I was wondering if you could do me a favor, and take a few closeup shots of the soap dispenser. Most helpful would be shots from three angles: top, front side, right side. From that - along with inch measurements for the three dimensions length height width, and I could probably fabricate a replacement. You'll also notice that the machine runs a lot quieter when the racks are installed, and even more when it's got a full load of dishes. The unimpeded spray from that wash arm will otherwise cause a deep drumming on the underside of the lid. | ||
| Post# 258115 , Reply# 21 1/6/2008 at 13:25 (5,954 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Detergent Dispensor | ||
| Post# 258116 , Reply# 22 1/6/2008 at 13:26 (5,954 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Detergent Dispensor | ||
| Post# 258117 , Reply# 23 1/6/2008 at 13:27 (5,954 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Detergent Dispensor | ||
| Post# 258118 , Reply# 24 1/6/2008 at 13:28 (5,954 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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And One More | ||
| Post# 258165 , Reply# 26 1/6/2008 at 16:52 (5,954 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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How do you ......
How do you check this machine for particles in the drain valve (Sump) I have tried to get one of my fingers down there,(OOOH, that sounds wierd) but anyway what should I be (feeling ) or looking for ? My gut instinct is telling me the valve is junk. My gut is usually never wrong and when it is ,I am thankful.
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Post# 258324 , Reply# 27 1/7/2008 at 00:38 (5,954 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 258392 , Reply# 28 1/7/2008 at 11:49 (5,953 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
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I'm Confused
In other words, the solenoid holds the drain valve closed. The later models with the flow thru solenoids were held closed by the valve itself and then opened when it was time to drain. Wait a minute, I thought these later model flow through valves operated like this: Solenoid Energized: Drain line plugged so no water goes though drain hose. Solenoid De-energized: Drain line open so water flows through drain line. At least that is the way the one that I installed in my Bendix works. | ||
| Post# 258416 , Reply# 29 1/7/2008 at 14:51 (5,953 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Solenoid
Hi Robert. On the KD2 and the machines with the Cast Iron Wash Arms before they went to the 4-way HydroSweep Arms, (I know the commercial Hobart UM-4) When the machine is off, the valve is open. When it's energized it is shut. So another words while it's filling and washing or rinsing, the valve is energized and is shut. When it calls for draining or off, it is not energized and it is open. | ||
| Post# 258555 , Reply# 31 1/8/2008 at 05:08 (5,952 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Maybe
Hi Stevet. Hmmmmm.Florida. I do have some friends there. What is it that I would be doing in the office ? And what do you do ? I have always had a passion for Hobart Machines. I still think the best door machine Hobart ever made was the (I think the model no. is) AM6-T2 or T3. Am I correct in saying that the T2 Timer was a 48 sec. wash ,5 sec dwell and 12 second Rinse ? While the T3 timer was a 45 sec wash,3 sec dwell, and 12 sec rinse ? Those cast iron wash arms (They use to call them NiResist) and the external ballbearing mount for the upper spray arm, Now that was a Tank of a machine. Right down to that little Buss fuse inside the timer box. The UMs...another work horse. I know of one in a guys basement that I am trying to get. It is in perfect working order and condition. He used it as a glass washer behind the bar and replaced it with (I really am not up to speed on the newer models) but I want to say it is an LX series. 2 years old and has 12 service calls on the machine while the UM which is roughly 40 years old has had 1 motor, 1 fill solenoid and 1 door spring and maybe 12 or so pilot light bulbs. Pretty good record for 40 years. | ||
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Post# 258588 , Reply# 32 1/8/2008 at 08:37 (5,952 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
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When it's energized it is shut. So another words while it's filling and washing or rinsing, the valve is energized and is shut. Yup after looking at my Bendix last night and my KD-12 and 14 dishwashers I see the drain valve actions are reversed. So while it worked fine in my '47 Bendix this wouldn't work in a early KA dishwasher. Oh well, I'm sure you can come up with something, that machine too beautiful not to be up and running. | ||
| Post# 258690 , Reply# 34 1/8/2008 at 19:44 (5,952 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Stevet
I am working now in a restaurant with a Meiko Machine. I really have to say this , but What a piece of crap. You would think a machine made in Germany (My native backgound and Mercedes, and BMW )The machine would be fantastic as far as the engineering would go..The machine cleans unbelievably. Choice of three wash programmes.(Especially for a Breakfast Restaurant with dried egg yolk etc.)They built the machine with very heavy gauge stainless steel. The wash arms are very well designed for the spray pattern. But...The manifolds feeding the upper and lower wash arms are made of PLASTIC. !!!!! Can you imagine the abuse these machines these days from dish handlers slamming sheet pans (18x26) into that machine and cracking the manifolds ? My last tech that has repaired endless issues with circuit boards told me to replace the upper wash manifold would cost $750.00. As far as the newest Hobarts go, I see the same technology as far as the machine will not rinse or stop washing until the temp hits the specified sanitizing temps. Give me the Cam Timers,Cast Iron Wash Arms,Hatco Boosters along side of the machines,the Buss Fuses,and Manuel Fill Valves and NOW YOU HAVE A GREAT MACHINE. Just my preference. Do you remember the XM models ? I was going to a summer camp where they had a XM with the HUGE motor mounted on the left,(I belive it was a 2 HP motor) The R-1 Crescent reducer in the center to drive the conveyor and the Pump at the far right all connectected together the whole length of the machine ? Of course you had your choice of right to left ot left to right in your specifications on the machine being built for your dish area specs. It also had a control arm that you had to press down to push the last rack out. This was located just under the inspection door that would let the rack "Dwell. " Stay in the center of the wash action for a type of "Soak and Scrub". The name plate on that control arm that you pressed down to get that last rack out was "Hobart-Crescent Dual Drive". How that for a memery ? I believe Josephine Cochran sold the Dishwashing machine to Crescent and than it turned into Hobart. It even had a small "Port Hole" in the Inspection door.It was so cool to watch the spray action of the machine as it was running. When you fired that machine up all you heard was a low hum of the motor and water spraying. The Top spray was a three arm revolving wash arm while the lower one was stationary. All made of NiResist and the revolving wash was external ball bearing mount. Wash Gauge was on the Left,Rinse on the right and you could see the ball bearing mount for the upper wash exposed to see if it was rotating. This machine resembled the C-44 except I think it was 36-40 inches in length and had rounded hoods on either end. What a machine they built back then. Then there was DuBois Chemicals. They had a soap called "Kloro-Kol". A chlorinated powder that went into the "Viz-a-trol" Soap resevoir and was dispensed and the "Rinse-a-Trol that dispensed the drying agent. It had a piston pump that lit up every time a rack went though the rinse section of the machine. The Viz-a-Trol had a electrode in the tank that sensed the titration (sp?) of the detergent in the tank. What a great aroma of that chlorinated detergent. It smelled so clean as the dishes passed out the end of the machine, in the old Heavy Stainless framed Sani-Stack Racks with the Plastisol 7 compartment Plate Racks, The Compartmented Glass Racks and the "Flat Racks for Silver ware." Those were the days my friend. Lots of energy used and Lots of Hot Water. And great Results. It has been a fantastic pleasure running into you and everyone else on automaticwasher.org. I'm thinking about your offer. it's mild up here but maybe I'm ready to make a change. Please stay in touch. Oh by the way, I don't care what the cost is for that drain valve, I'll maybe have a tech do it for me. I can do the little stuff, but the KD2 means so much to me, I need to see her up and running practically as my daily use machine. Fond memories brought into reality...I can't put a price on that. Eddie | ||
| Post# 258909 , Reply# 36 1/9/2008 at 19:44 (5,951 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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stevet
Thankyou for all your help. I'm listening to my Mobile Maid bang some dishes around. It's a comforting sound knowing that there is some water pressure in the machine as compared to today's machines. I will contact the Hobart Office and get the valve. Maybe I should buy both. Just incase someone else in the club shall need one some day.I will be in touch as I certainly will need guidence on this challenge. Thanks for your support, and will start a new thread when the time arrives. Eddie... PS I guess I've turned into an old timer.(Not a Cam)
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