Kitchenaid Dishwasher???????


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Thread Number: 15990
Kitchenaid Dishwasher???????

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Post# 267322 2/29/2008 at 21:27 (5,899 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes I have a friend of mine of just called me and he is giving me a K/A dishwasher that is a KDI-21.He knows I am looking for older ones but this is the first one he came across,he owns a appliance store. I was wondering are these machines pretty good until I can get my Pure hobart Job.I love K/a dishwashers but the new ones are terrible and they got worse with that W/p side-winder in it.It seems anything that says Energy Star on it means it will suck bad,I also collect old celing fans and the Hunter Original were always the best then they went to a energy star motor and now there not worth the 300$ anymore .I want a Dishwasher that Washes I don't care if it does use 50 Gallons a fill.I have been trying to find a Pic of this dishwasher but no luck and it has to wash better than my new Maytag jet 2 thats in there now.Its in MINT shape he said.

Post# 267327 , Reply# 1 2/29/2008 at 21:39 (5,899 days old) by brent-aucoin ()
Checkrate/Likes This is a Hobart Machine. It should have a Rapid Advance Timer. Let us know what you find. Brent

Post# 267344 , Reply# 2 2/29/2008 at 22:40 (5,899 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes I was wondering what year that is?The Model # KDI-21A I havent spoke to him he left a message on my Phone just.He did say it was buttons only I think my fone sucks so I could be wrong.Thanks.

Post# 267457 , Reply# 3 3/1/2008 at 18:37 (5,899 days old) by brent-aucoin ()
Checkrate/Likes Did you get it yet? It is a great dishwasher. I would say that it was made in the early 80's. Brent

Post# 267580 , Reply# 4 3/2/2008 at 10:45 (5,898 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)
Checkrate/Likes *Be careful!* There really are 2 different series of the 21's. The true Hobart Built units and the Whirlpool influenced units. The '21' series came out in the early 80's and were the best Dishwashers Hobart designed EVER! They literally have a garbage disposer built into the pump housing. Not some flimsy spring or cutter knife, but a metal drain impeller with a sizing ring set up to break down anything that gets in its way. That impeller then fed the water and debris into the soil collection chamber and filtered that water through the very fine mesh filter you see under the washarm.During the rinse portions, the soil was washed down the drain. The way to tell the True Hobarts from the WP models is that they all had the heating element in the sump next to the pump and all had the hot air blower/dryer setup under the tank. They also had the heat indicator light on the control panel. These units heated the was water in each cycle to 140 degrees with 1400 watts and then used the 700 watts to keep it hot. The Whirlpool models were the ones with the exposed heating/drying element above the sump inside the tank and they did not interrupt the timer to heat the water. It was kind of hit or miss if it ever got to 140 since it would not interrupt the timer from advancing.These units also had the plastic blower unit in them and that water element doubles as the dryer element, cycling on and off during the drying phase. You could select no heat dry in either series. The Superba, Patrician and Monterrey models were the only models with the rapid advance timers on them. The Monterrey was the same as the Superba and was probably a special unit made for specific appliance dealers as my aunt got one and I had to check with Hobart at the time to make sure of what it was since she wanted the top of the line only! And by the time WP got it, the Monterrey was gone. They are great machines and will wash the pants off anything out there today and do it faster too! Don't hesitate to take the Imperial..no matter what series you get, it will not disappoint you! Do get yourself a spare washarm support assembly as that was the only weak point in the whole line. The lower white nylon bushing in the support would often come loose and move up and block all the water to the lower arm after a few years, though many originals are still going strong. Here are some pictures of what the control panel would look like. This is my KDC21D which was an upgraded model with all the features and cycles of the KDI model. This happens to be a 1986 model and was a Whirlpool inspired unit but has worked flawlessly since then!

Post# 267581 , Reply# 5 3/2/2008 at 10:47 (5,898 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)
Checkrate/Likes *another picture* This picture is of the cycle selections..exactly the same as the KDI units! I lucked out with this Custom KDC! I only miss the 140 Degree interruption of the timer.

Post# 267582 , Reply# 6 3/2/2008 at 10:50 (5,898 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)
Checkrate/Likes *one more for you!* Here is the dial indicator with the cycles. I actually also have a Hobart Built KDC21 with the 3 cycles and the heat indicator light and the 140 degree heat system. It actually does go right to exactly 140 and then continues. I was amazed though not surprised at its precision!

Post# 267583 , Reply# 7 3/2/2008 at 11:10 (5,898 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes Thanks I am going today to Pick it up if when my friend is free.I know this Machine is all buttons no Knobs he told me..They started using the powerclean Pump with the KUD23 unless I am wrong.I had a 86 K/a and rember taking it apart that disposer has a metal like plate over the topside if I rember and I loved that dishwasher but it rusted out the back of it there was a big dent above the dryer inlet.This guy told me its in Mint shape he did say there is one rust spot on the top rack but I can fix that.I will post some Pics when I get back I have to drive down to Dalton Ga to pick it up.The guy told me he he cant rember the exact year he got it but he thinks it was in 1988.So its a hit or miss I guess but even if it is a cheaper W/p job it has to be better than anything out today.

Post# 267602 , Reply# 8 3/2/2008 at 14:27 (5,898 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)
Checkrate/Likes *Go Get 'Em, Man* If it is all buttons, it may be a Superba! But no matter what, You will have yourself a great machine. Even the Custom models were great cleaning machines and they all heated the water to some extent. Only the very low end builders' models were devoid of features. The KDA21 didnt even have the heated air element in the blower. It was an option on that model! Let us know how you make out. Steve

Post# 267648 , Reply# 9 3/2/2008 at 20:00 (5,897 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes Well I Picked it up its a Whirlpool hack.It has that Killer Pump but the Blower is plastic and NO heating element.It is the Superba 21 and it does need a little work on it.I will post some Pics soon.The upper rack I need to order its kinda rough shape but the Motor is 1/2 Hp 7.9 Amps Kitcheaid on it and it has that disposer in it.But its not like my other one of course but I will find me one soon.I am happy though cause even though this is a cost cutter one it has to be better than that Maytag Jetclean 2.When did Kitchenaid stop putting in the over head rinse in the very top?I have seen Pics of them.

Post# 267656 , Reply# 10 3/2/2008 at 21:05 (5,897 days old) by brent-aucoin ()
Checkrate/Likes This is getting very confusing.... There is not such thing as a Superba 21 without a water heating element in the bottom. Also the Superba 21 has a heating box for drying. Can you take pictures, or look on the door tag to the left, and give the exact model number? Brent

Post# 267667 , Reply# 11 3/2/2008 at 21:49 (5,897 days old) by magic clean ()
Checkrate/Likes *Model explanation-clarification* "The Superba, Patrician and Monterrey models were the only models with the rapid advance timers on them. The Monterrey was the same as the Superba and was probably a special unit" The Superba classic, under either Hobart & Whirlpool ownership had the traditional woodgrain trim on the console. The Monterey version, was black & grey---a more modernist theme. That was the only difference and both models were available to any retailer or builder. One could be converted to the other simply by replacing the control panel console. The drain impeller-disposer on the early 21 used a nylon hub that often would break away from the stainless steel impeller under load. One of several contributing reasons that the pump eventually transitioned to the power-clean style with the 23 series. The change to the dynamic water heating on the non-rapid advance models was done to create more differentiation in the product line and reserve the 1400 watt sump heater for the T-O-L models.

Post# 267674 , Reply# 12 3/2/2008 at 22:11 (5,897 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes I was Talking about the Dryer sorry.The Dryer used to be metal with a heater in it also.This one does not have it just a fan in a plastic shroud.I will post some Pics tommorow to my dismay this is a Whirlpool influenced unit.The Water heater is Exposed and doubles for the Water and Drying.Even though its not the one I was dreaming for I know it will out wash anything out there today.I will find me another one the one I want a True HOBART.

Post# 267776 , Reply# 13 3/3/2008 at 19:37 (5,896 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)
Checkrate/Likes *We definitely need some pictures here.* This is definitely getting more confusing. Sounds like someone either swapped the blower unit on it. But a superba would always have had a sump heater in it. The exposed element was used on the other models and all of the ISE branded machines. Do check the data plate on the side of the tank opening for the correct model number. And as far as the overhead rinse is concerned, that stopped with the 18 series being the last model to use it. It was replaced in the later models with a water manifold that had a small little slit cut into it to spray water up and over the top rack.Now my KDS19 didnt have it but I have 2 21's that did so it may have been a hit or miss thing. Even the inside of the manifold had a diverter built into it to catch and channel the water to that slot. See pics below

Post# 267777 , Reply# 14 3/3/2008 at 19:37 (5,896 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)
Checkrate/Likes *constant rinse* 2 of 3!

Post# 267778 , Reply# 15 3/3/2008 at 19:38 (5,896 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)
Checkrate/Likes *constant rinse manifold diverter* 3 of 3

Post# 267783 , Reply# 16 3/3/2008 at 20:50 (5,896 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes Here is some Pics.It does say Imperial 21 and some of the other words have been rubbed off.But Here we go...

Post# 267784 , Reply# 17 3/3/2008 at 20:51 (5,896 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes And More

Post# 267785 , Reply# 18 3/3/2008 at 20:51 (5,896 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes More

Post# 267787 , Reply# 19 3/3/2008 at 20:54 (5,896 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes Ok

Post# 267788 , Reply# 20 3/3/2008 at 21:00 (5,896 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes I have alot of work to do to this Dishwasher.I am going to put stainless steel Panels in it and clean it up really good.I was wondering what it the best thing to clean the mineral/rust stains for it.The Dishwasher was free so I can't complain I think it will work well once I totaly clean everything and my guy by then will have me the one I want.If I was wrong on some things like models I am sorry.The Pump is in good shape and there is no rust that can't be remove from the tub.I miss my other one that looked Just like this but had the Metal duct with heater for the Dryer and DID pause and during the water heating...

Post# 267804 , Reply# 21 3/3/2008 at 22:14 (5,896 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes I am sorry my room is a Wreck.I am a left above knee Amputtee and my Prosthetic has been in the shop.Trying to carry things on crutches is a pain in the but.I had a Kitcheaid just like this one but the blower was metal and the Water heater was differnt and if I am not mistaken it had a water heating light on it this that I have don't.The Motor on this one says 7.9 Amps 1/2 H.p. and says Kitcheaid made in the U.s.That is a Motor for sure.I put in a motor for my Aunt in her Frigidaire gallery and it was a 1/12th H.p. it said on it.I was floored no wonder they can't clean worth a flip that is even worse that the G.e. 1/8 Hp motor but the G.e. does clean though I have to admit but its NO old school.

Post# 267820 , Reply# 22 3/4/2008 at 06:28 (5,896 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)
Checkrate/Likes *Now it makes sense!* This is one of the latest in the 21 series. These were the same units that were built for ISE with the lights and no dials. It also obviously has the rapid advance timer as well as the 140 degree limiting tstat under the tank. If you really wanted to make it a hot air drying system, you can modify it by getting the correct blower assy and adding in a contactor to run the heater element in the fan housing. The wiring was too light in the machine to carry the 800 watts for the drying element thus the need for the contactor. If you want to do that I will explain how to do it. You should still get years out of this baby. They were tanks too but not as heavy duty a tank as the 20's and earlier machines were!

Post# 267950 , Reply# 23 3/5/2008 at 03:43 (5,895 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)
Checkrate/Likes *I've been out of touch* With the KA machines pretty much after 1986. I have never seen a heating element like that. Was Whirlpool starting to tweak the designs back then ? The pic is taht of my KDS-18. This is the sump/heater that I was always use to seeing.

Post# 267990 , Reply# 24 3/5/2008 at 13:18 (5,895 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )
Checkrate/Likes Yes Whirlpool was started to rape Kitchenaid that is for sure.I had a machine that looked Just like the one I have now but it was older and had the heater like yours and also used heated air for drying the dishes also.I did fire it up and it works GREAT.I took the fill hose and attached it to the drain hose so it would just loop around and around.The Pump is the same which is the best pump design ever in my view but it is very sad to see what they did to K/a in such a short time.My old one heated first then washed this one heats as it washes.I am thrilled to get this one and will keep it till my guy calls me with a older one.Even though this one is a Whirlpool striped down version it still has that KILLER 7.9 Amp motor in it and washes like hell.I worked on my Aunts new sidewinder K.a. and it is terrible the motor is very weak I have heard the were 1/16th H.p. I dont see how that could wash anything thats even worse than the Frigidare 1/12th H.p. motor in theres.I don't get Whirlpool they had that Powerclean wash system which I haved to admit was a good washer it did clean good then they went to the set up now and it is the worst out there beside Frigidare.

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