Hotpoint History - Filling a gap in the 70s


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Thread Number: 17179
Hotpoint History - Filling a gap in the 70s

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Post# 282422 5/30/2008 at 03:20 (5,809 days old) by robm (Buxted)
Checkrate/Likes Hi all Fascinated by the 70s and 80s Hotpoint frontloaders, I realise there is a big gap in my history. I know a Hotpoint 1600 was produced around 1970, with a super fast 1100rpm spin, shown below top right hand corner. Does anyone know what was produced before this?

Post# 282424 , Reply# 1 5/30/2008 at 03:52 (5,809 days old) by robm (Buxted)
Checkrate/Likes *and after* The real gap in my history is the period after the 1600, early to mid 70s. I know the Liberator came out after this but I believe that was around 76?? Does anyone know - How long the 1600 was in production for? What replaced the 1600 and had the design changed significantly? What spins, had the motor changed to a brushmotor? When did the Liberator come in? Any help and particularly any pics would be really appreciated. All the best Rob

Post# 282439 , Reply# 2 5/30/2008 at 06:51 (5,809 days old) by hotpoint9534 (UK)
Checkrate/Likes Hi Rob, The first Liberators were introduced in 1973, certainly model 1850 was one of them. Model 1850 had an enamel inner drum but was otherwise internally similar to the later Liberators and early 95 series washers. Prior to 1973, the theory is that the 1600 was replaced by the 1830 which was identical to the 1600 but with the purple liberator style facia. Early part listings show that the 1600 and 1830 were the same design machine. I would doubt if any 1600 or 1830 machines still exist, as many parts were obsolete back in the 80s. None of these parts fitted the later Liberators. Hope that helps a bit. Tom.

Post# 282446 , Reply# 3 5/30/2008 at 07:44 (5,809 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Hotpoint - Our Ideas, Your Home!!!* Hi Rob, interesting question, and dont tease us any more for those of us scenning that picture, WE WANT LARGE..!!!...Lol Heres the history:English Electric Liberator early 60`s

Post# 282447 , Reply# 4 5/30/2008 at 07:59 (5,809 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Hotpoint - Late 1960`s* 7lb Load, 700spin, Hot & Cold Fill,

Post# 282448 , Reply# 5 5/30/2008 at 08:02 (5,809 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Hotpoint 1600 / 1830, 1970* 8lb Load, 1100rpm. Hot & Cold Fill

Post# 282451 , Reply# 6 5/30/2008 at 08:09 (5,809 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Hotpoint 1850 - Late 1973* 9lb Load, 750rpm, Hot & Cold Fill, similar to pic

Post# 282461 , Reply# 7 5/30/2008 at 09:00 (5,809 days old) by golittlesport (California)
Checkrate/Likes A couple of those English Electric machines look a lot like American Westinghouse front loaders of the day.

Post# 282469 , Reply# 8 5/30/2008 at 09:22 (5,809 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *English Electric - Westinghouse* Hi Rich, hope alls well with you, yes there was an alliance with Westinghouse and English Electric UK as was, later Hotpoint UK ltd. Hotpoint UK also had an alliance with Maytag as well, the first Hotpoint UK Wringer Washer was based on the Maytag Model E..... Any more "new-to-you" vintage appliances sneaked into the garage!!! Cheers, Mike & schnitzel Ella (14 & going strong)

Post# 282485 , Reply# 9 5/30/2008 at 11:08 (5,809 days old) by robm (Buxted)
Checkrate/Likes Thanks Mike and Tom for your valuable knowledge. It's a period I just do not know enough about. I guess then not many people could afford automatics. If anyone has anymore vintage Hottie pics it would be greatly appreciated. Rob

Post# 282522 , Reply# 10 5/30/2008 at 18:22 (5,809 days old) by liberator1509 (Ireland)
Checkrate/Likes *All about merging* The history of Hotpoint in the UK goes a bit like this: Started in 1911 - and by 1920 was operating as an agency importing small appliances to the UK (under the GE and Hotpoint marques). In 1923, the firm began production of wringer washers - as Mike notes, a licensed version of the early Maytag square-tub. There was no formal tie-up with Maytag, rather this was license production - nonetheless, Hotpoint continued to call their agitators 'gyrators' in later machines. In 1929, Hotpoint became part of Associated Electrical Industries (A.E.I.) and by 1934 they were producing their own design wringer-washer, later known as the Empress - they had by now several manufacturing plants around Great Britain. In 1963 Hotpoint introduced their first automatic washer - the 1500, a top-loader based on the GE filter-flo design (the transmission and pump system is a very near copy - Hotpoint calling the recirculation 'Filter-Clean' and the ramped gyrator 'Spiraclean'). This machine was exported (as with all other AEI Hotpoints in the 1960s) under the brand name Gala - GE had rights to the Hotpoint name outside the UK. The 1500 was also produced under licence by Fisher and Paykel for the New Zealand and Australian market. GEC (not to be confused with GE) took control of AEI in 1967. English Electric was a enormous conglomerate making 'everything electrical' (as well as aircraft and locomotives!). English Electric made a range of domestic appliances, including washing machines (licensed Westinghouse designs) under the sub-marque 'Liberator'. English Electric was consumed by GEC in 1968 - having failed in 1960 to merge the other way round. GEC became the dominant partner and the English Electric name was phased out. As part of this enormous take over, under Lord Weinstock, GEC set about rationalisation of the entire industry - in domestic appliances, GEC now had Hotpoint, English Electric and Morphy Richards as separate marques making similar products - for a very short while they were marketed as 'GEC Home Laundry', but by 1972 the English Electric brand was dropped and Morphy Richards became a small appliance brand. The wide-body front loader was built for a very short time (from about 1969 to 1972) until a major restyle in 1973, when the smaller 'purple liberator' style appeared - the Liberator term was kept for about five years to capture former English Electric customers, but dropped in 1978 (when purple styling became brown). The 1500 automatic and the supermatic twintub remained essentially the same models throughout this time. The Gala export brand was also dropped in the 1970s. GEC continued to absorb other brand - Jackson, Parnall, Creda etc - most being dropped in favour of Hotpoint. In 1989 GEC de-merged the appliance business as a subsidiary called GDA and ironically GE (US) purchased a 50% share of this new business. Under GDA Hotpoint remained the core brand, with Creda as the 'value' brand - English Electric and Gala had occasional outings as 'specials' for certain dealer-chains. In 2001, Merloni Elettrodomestici purchased the 50% GEC share of GDA, later acquiring GE's share, and renaming itself Indesit Company in 2005. Its former prestige brand Ariston was merged to become Hotpoint-Ariston in 2007, with the aim being to make Hotpoint a pan-European brand and the other brand names were dropped. All the rest is history - Indesit just need to purchase GE appliance division to complete the circle - at present they have declined to comment on any interest in the deal.

Post# 282593 , Reply# 11 5/31/2008 at 03:54 (5,808 days old) by robm (Buxted)
Checkrate/Likes Thanks David that is really helpful! I know you guys always come up trumps. I take it with the new modelling in 73 this is when the classic Hotpoint design started with the brush motor at the top? Here are some pics I got off here some months ago (Mike I think they are from you, I hope you don't mind me sharing).

Post# 282594 , Reply# 12 5/31/2008 at 03:56 (5,808 days old) by robm (Buxted)
Checkrate/Likes I wasn't sure if the Liberator English Electric was the pre cursor to Hotpoint, so thanks for that. Here is the Which report.

Post# 282597 , Reply# 13 5/31/2008 at 04:00 (5,808 days old) by robm (Buxted)
Checkrate/Likes Finally the last of the Purple Hotties, the 1800 series. Note the new thinner door rim. I remember this being sold in my mother's Peter Craig catalogue. The brown 18580 replaced this I believe.

Post# 282600 , Reply# 14 5/31/2008 at 04:59 (5,808 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)
Checkrate/Likes I had the model that followed! I've just woken up and i'm struggling to remember the model 187...i forget. lol. Heres a piccie! We had to of these, when our 9534 died and the repair was more than we could afford my grandad gave us his which was the same model! then about 6-7months later we got the 9534 repaired and gave this to my brother when he moved out! The door was clear. the owner of this one had limescale all ove r it i think. Darren

Post# 283002 , Reply# 15 6/2/2008 at 13:47 (5,806 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)
Checkrate/Likes *mmm...the era of Purple!* How do Guys. I hope this thread runs and runs. Here is a brief history of Hotpoint during the 70's as I have come to understand it! Any inaccuracies - as ever, let me know. The Hotpoint 1600 was Hotpoints first front loader, introduced in 1970 and was the fastest front loader on the market for many years. Basically the 1600 was a Hotpoint top loader simply turned on its side! I am lead to believe that it only tumbled one way and was a complete b1tch when spinning as far as balancing was concerned. It behaved akin to a top loader and sped upto 1100 over a number of minutes gradually emptying of water. All the water, whilst spinning at low revolutions led to a very unbalanced spin. Nevertheless a great looking machine ahead of its time. Methinks the only ones still in existence will be owned by Hotpoint - heres hoping that they are aware of this machines importance. This machine ran until 1973, when it was replaced by model 1830 (same machine - purple'y styling) and was offered as part of the Liberator line-up, although still called the 'AUTOMATIC', last appearing in Which magazine in 1974/75. The original 1973 Liberator line-up consisted of: 1830 - 1100rpm 'AUTOMATIC' (widebody) 1840 - 750rpm 'LIBERATOR' a basic cold fill only machine, with one powder drawer compartment and the only button on the facia being the Door Release button. More of this machine in a moment!!!!! & 1850 - the original 'LIBERATOR DE LUXE' with the 4 button facia that everyone so wants to see again today. Well, i miss it anyway. Offered with the above was the matching 'LIBERATOR DRYER' model 1700, replaced in a year by the visually identical (apart from the name script and probably some mechanicals - anyone able to confirm?) model 1701. Back to the 1840 - this machine was fully designed and a combined service manual was issued for the 1840 and 1850, containing full technical drawings and servicing information for it. Rather weirdly though, the 1840 was never built for production and sale. Taken from the servicing manual: 'Although this manual covers models 1840 and 1850 there have been no 1840 machines produced and no plans to build any in the forseeable future. Care should be taken when ordering spares that the correct catalogue numbers are quoted'. I only discovered this about a week or so ago. Another potential mystery machine solved. Dont go hunting for a real 1840, cause there weren't any! The De Luxe model 1850 was replaced by model 1851, which had a door interlock, in 1975. Model 1851 was replaced by model 1851/03 which had upgraded powder drawer containg a fabric conditioner dispenser, as well as generally improved water flow systems from powder drawer into the drum. Circa 1976. Model 1851/03 was replaced by model 1828/02 in February 1977, which boasted a programme guide on the facia and a Stainless Steel drum. Model 1828/02 was replaced by 1828/07 in June 1978 which utilised HLCC codings on the programmer and facia. The 1828/02 was also offered as a 'Best Buy' version called the 1827. The 1827 saw out the 4 button Liberators and was replaced by the silver facia'd model 18380 in 1979. Also towards the end of Liberator production, model 1824 was introduced in Feb 1978 and was a 2 button Liberator. This machine presumably took up the mantle that the 1840 was supposed to sort of adopt back in 1973, but didn't. The 1824 had an Economy Wash function and was Hot and Cold fill over the 1840 and was replaced by the silver faciad version 18340 in 1979. Not too sure of introduction dates for this one - model 1848 Liberator Super De luxe was the top of the range Liberator, boasting variable spin (was it upto 800 or 1000rpm?). Follow the link below and witness the first advert - Persil and Hotpoint in partnership - great advert. The 1848 was replaced by the 18580 in 1979, top of the line later being taken by the Microtronics. Part of the 1976ish line up consisted of the two bought in models - the 1823 cold fill Zanussi clone and the 1826 hot and cold fill Zanussi clone. Both these models were replaced by the 1824. As far as I know that is the Liberator front loader story. Models not mentioned are: 1701/21 an upgraded 1701 Liberator dryer 1720 Home and Dry compact 1730 Hotpoint Liberator E dryer. Two mystery models are the following and any info as to what they were and where they fit would be gratefully received: 1721 probably an updated Home and Dry & 1731. Excepting for the famous Liberator top loaders and supermatics, there you have it. Below is the first pure Hotpoint Liberator - the 1850. Cheers Paul p.s more piccies and info on these great machine - plllleeeaaaaaassssssseeeeeeee. CLICK HERE TO GO TO matchboxpaul's LINK

Post# 283085 , Reply# 16 6/3/2008 at 06:46 (5,805 days old) by robm (Buxted)
Checkrate/Likes Paul you are a real star! I thought you would have something good to contribute but I never imagined so much. Thanks for the taking the time to write this all up. I find the 1600 fascinating! It�s a shame that we probably will never see one work. It would be great to watch that spin, I wonder how heavy they used to be? I wonder if they were a bit like the old Indesits and jumped around the room? I suppose the closest is the spin in the older Miele�s from the 70s where the spin gradually increases with what sounds like a geared motor. I have seen a few videos on youtube. One other thing, I wonder who sold the most out of Hoover and Hotpoint? In the 80s I would say Hotpoint would win hands down but in the 70s I�m not so sure. The purple was definitely funky but perhaps not to everyone�s taste. Rob

Post# 283165 , Reply# 17 6/3/2008 at 17:08 (5,805 days old) by liberator1509 (Ireland)
Checkrate/Likes Hi Paul Great to have such comprehensive info on the Hotpoint Front Loaders - how is the spreadsheet going? Unfortunately, I doubt if Hotpoint have a 1600 still - I read somewhere that when Merloni took over, all 'old' material was thrown out, including service manuals, and even an untouched 1950s Empress - perhaps someone on here knows more about that story. The mystery 1840 model might have been to do with production capacity issues - the later Zanussi-Hotpoints were introduced for that reason - something happened (possibly a fire?) at one of the plants that meant Hotpoint were unable to produce to capacity, so the Zanussi models were brought in to avoid loss of market position. You also mention that the variable spin model was top of line for Hotpoint - not quite so - until the New Generation LE (aka 95 series) machines appeared, the Top Loader (my fav of course) was Hotpoint's TOL model. It always strikes me as strange that Hotpoint didn't offer variations on this model - it was always one of the most expensive UK made washers, and they may have succeeded in great market penetration it there had been specced-up or down variants like the front-loaders (imagine a two-speed 1509 Liberator super-duper deluxe!) - of course we'll never know... Such a shame that Hotpoint didn't retain the Liberator name and styling for longer...

Post# 283218 , Reply# 18 6/3/2008 at 21:58 (5,805 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)
Checkrate/Likes That Hotpoint 1600 is a beauty! Love the controls on the top-front - so very "vintage" looking.

Post# 283476 , Reply# 19 6/5/2008 at 15:12 (5,803 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)
Checkrate/Likes How do David. I stand corrected. You are quite right of couse - the 1509 and its top loaders variants were the top of the tine through the 1970's. One of my mates parents had a purple one in the early 1980s which, when it gave up the ghost, was replaced by the 9600 variant - she liked them that much. I am not going to even attempt to eassay write about the top loaders - that is your territory David, most of my knowledge having been gleened from your good self. Suffice to say that they were great machines. Being the only top loading machines I had contact with (apart from a Philips slimstar which I have the vaguest of memoris of) I certainly have a large respect for them - the 1504, 1509, 96700 and 9600. Here is quite possibly the rarest Hotpoint top loader though. Sold alongside the early versions of the Liberators - possibly into 1974. The Hotpoint 1508 Automatic. Enjoy. Paul

Post# 283680 , Reply# 20 6/7/2008 at 06:08 (5,801 days old) by superelectronic (London, UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Mystery Model 1721* Finally - I have something useful to contribute! Paul mentions mystery machine 1721 above and I happen to be be in possession of the instuction booklet. I can confirm it is a compact tumble dryer - the sister model to the 1730 my Mum had; they share instructions - with rear venting, solid purple circle on the door and a ribbed silver facia. I believe these may well have been called "Home and Dry" in later incarnations. The instruction book dates from March 1979 (the 1730 having been purchased in August '79 in light of my impending arrival). Much I as would love to share the marvellous illustrations (no photos in these books) which have spared the booklet from being chucked out previously, I can't get the scanner to work so can't give you a visual...colour photocopies available upon request if you're keen to see the full colour glory of a Liberator instruction booklet. Mystery solved! Al

Post# 283684 , Reply# 21 6/7/2008 at 07:25 (5,801 days old) by seamusuk (Dover Kent UK)
Checkrate/Likes *OMG!* So the question is- has anyone ever seen a 1508?? Seamus

Post# 283699 , Reply# 22 6/7/2008 at 11:58 (5,801 days old) by liberator1509 (Ireland)
Checkrate/Likes Paul (and others!) - thanks for the great pics!! The 1508 is a cool looking machine - basically a decapitated 1504! I wonder why they went for the front controls? Surely one of the advantages of the conventional top-loader design was the easily accessible panel - having them at waist-height doesn't make much ergonomic sense. The 1508 styling is like the American Whirlpool-Kenmore compacts, which Servis, I believe, imported to the UK for a while (or maybe the produced them under license). I remember as a kid seeing a Servis top-loader in a 'Shop Electric' shop when we were on holidays in the UK in about 1981 (who else did washer-shop tours on holidays as a kid?) - I don't think the machine ever made it to Ireland. It's a bit off topic, but does anyone have a pic of the Servis machine? The Hotpoint 1508 didn't last long, so I doubt if many if any survive - a real shame...why is it that automatics from the 1960s in America seem to be found, yet UK models from the 70s are rarities - I knows its a much smaller place, and that we took to automatics much later, but you'd think a few more might be out there...

Post# 284115 , Reply# 23 6/9/2008 at 15:56 (5,799 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)
Checkrate/Likes *You have my attention Al!* Many thanks for clearing up the mystery 1721 machine. By the sound of it it was a Liberator development of the previous 1720 'home and dry' which used shades of brown and is shown below. A sheet of solid purple on the door - weird to say, but i bet it looked great! Can I be cheeky and take you up on your offer of a colour photocopy of the instruction manual, as I have never see the 1721 before. I will drop you an e-mail with my address details, if the offer still stands. Another mystery solved and some more red squares off the spreadsheet! Thanks Al. Regards Paul p.s was the 1721 badged as 'home and dry' or 'home n' dry'. I did hear/read of a model being called the latter with the n' lark going on! p.p.s the 1720 is shown below

Post# 284117 , Reply# 24 6/9/2008 at 15:59 (5,799 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)
Checkrate/Likes and here is the 1730 Liberator Dryer E. (I think this was either Mark or Mike's photo - hope it was OK posting it again)

Post# 284121 , Reply# 25 6/9/2008 at 16:10 (5,799 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)
Checkrate/Likes *Hi David* You mention the servis toploader, with the controls on the front in a similar style to the Hotpoint 1508. The machine concerned was the Servis 311 Toploader. Like the 1508, the 311 is a slightly strange looking bit of kit. 1981 would be about right, as the machine was on sale alongside the servis 600 quartz, hotpoint 18780 microtronic and Hotpoint 18361 Super Electronic. Enjoy. Paul

Post# 284142 , Reply# 26 6/9/2008 at 17:15 (5,799 days old) by liberator1509 (Ireland)
Checkrate/Likes Hey Paul Thanks for the pic - great looking machine - though the concept of a top loader under a counter is very strange indeed. I love the idea that "extra items can be added during the wash sequence" for an under work surface TL - were you supposed to leave the machine out while it operated? Doesn't appear to have handles to pull it out either! How long was it in production for I wonder? Maybe some of our US friends can confirm the Kenmore/Whirlpool origins?

Post# 285729 , Reply# 27 6/17/2008 at 17:07 (5,791 days old) by hotsupermatic (Surrey UK)
Checkrate/Likes *More info on Hotpoint 1600* Hi Guys, The 1600 was exstremly advanced for its time. It had reverse tumble, controlled by a brush motor and electronic module. The tub was susspended on four shock absorbers of which two of them had micro swithes mounted for out of balance check. The machine would distibute then ramp into 1100 revs very quickly, if the load was out of balance it would trigger the micro swithches and then redisribute,(similar to the early 1800 series microtronic machines). Sometimes this machine would rock and roll all over the place before it achieved a smooth spin. The 1600 was also very noisy many complaints about having to leave the room while spinning. It also had terible reliabilty probs, used to go through modules and timers like crazy. In the early 70's Hotpoint had a huge fire, at this time English Electric was under the same roof. This was at the time of the English Elecric Reversomatics. Many spares were lost which ended in the short life of the 1600's, Reversomatics, and English electric Liberators. During this time many concesional exchanges took place because Hotpont could no longer supply parts for these machines. During this time all Hotpoint front loaders were made in Italy under license by Zanussi these were models 1823 & 1826 these were very reliable machines but only had a slow spin 500 revs. Shortly after this Hotpoint started producing front loaders again 1850's onwards and 1700 dryer to match, incidentaly the 1823 & 1826 were the start of the purple colour coding. Hope this answers a lot of you questions and you find it interesting, Jamie. CLICK HERE TO GO TO hotsupermatic's LINK

Post# 285785 , Reply# 28 6/18/2008 at 03:03 (5,790 days old) by robm (Buxted)
Checkrate/Likes Jamie Firstly a very warm welcome to the website! What you have written is brilliant! It's a whole period that I knew very little about but remembered vaguely through childhood. It certainely explains the 500 spin models which I remember so well. Unfortunately, I can't open the link at work. Did you ever see one of these in action? All the best Rob

Post# 285798 , Reply# 29 6/18/2008 at 07:06 (5,790 days old) by seamusuk (Dover Kent UK)
Checkrate/Likes *That makes sense..* Hi Jamie Id read somewhere about the fire but it didnt register that it would have affected spares supply. Presumably Hotpoint didnt make any spares for the 1600 and EE machines after and so as you say were forced to exchange them for 18 series machines. This would explain why nobody has a 1600 or Reversomatic in their collection (well not that im aware of)- does anyone have a English Electric Liberator washer??? Seamus

Post# 285855 , Reply# 30 6/18/2008 at 13:34 (5,790 days old) by liberator1509 (Ireland)
Checkrate/Likes *At least one 45 year old English Electric Liberator survives* This a great story - I wonder how much longer this machine will last? Thanks to Jamie for confirming the detail about the fire at Hotpoint - I knew I'd heard about that before, and the new info about the 1600 is really great too. Even if the fire hadn't occured, the Morphy Richards and English Electric laundry brands would have been dropped - Lord Weinstock's guiding principle for GEC was rationalisation, so product duplication had to be cut. It's a shame Hotpoint didn't keep the Liberator term alive for longer though. I read somewhere that at some stage before the GEC merge, AEI and English Electric had an agreement where AEI built washers for both, and EE built cooking appliances - from the mid 60s- is anyone out there able to confirm that story? As a modern twist - I wonder what's happening with GE appliances in the US - will Indesit make a move? If they did, Hotpoint would become a global brand! CLICK HERE TO GO TO liberator1509's LINK

Post# 285864 , Reply# 31 6/18/2008 at 14:00 (5,790 days old) by keymatic (London / UK)
Checkrate/Likes Hi Seamus, I have have an English Electric washer and dryer stacked on top of one another, the first pair that came out (Select-a-fabric) mid 50's. The washer is one of the first no-bolt washers that hit the market back then. Cheers Keith

Post# 286003 , Reply# 32 6/19/2008 at 04:52 (5,789 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Hotpoint* Hi Jamie, welcome, great information, interesting about how it came to be, have you ever worked on this machine?? when you say suspended from four shock absorbers, were the shock absorbers attached to the top of the machine frame?? or where they underneath like an asko etc?? it would explain a lot of the thrashing about stories it it was suspended from the top etc... Paul, that Servis 311 is something else isnt it!! I wonder how many where sold etc?? and how many people bought this who might have had the previous Servis toploaders!! Keith, dont tease us we need pics, pics, pics!! do they both work?? are they fully restored & how did you come to get them?? My great aunt & uncle had the English Electric reversomatic set, big doors, they where in an outhouse and where raised on a brick n concrete slab, I remember seeing them on a visit with my gran when I was 8 and was mesmerised by them, as my gran had the Hotpoint Empress & mum the Servis twinny you could imagine why!!!

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