Thread Number: 17694
Soon to be very COOL KitchenAid KD-12 Dishwasher
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Post# 289007   7/6/2008 at 15:09 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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About five years ago I picked up this relatively common KD-12 KitchenAid dishwasher from Bismarck, ND in pink. Inside its in nice shape, outside is kinda crappy and mechanically it needed some work. This was the first time in 5 years I've ever plugged it in and gave it a whirl...

Post# 289008 , Reply# 1   7/6/2008 at 15:09 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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The inside looks just mint, while it had been used it has not seen a huge amount mileage...

Post# 289009 , Reply# 2   7/6/2008 at 15:12 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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The problem that most likely put this dishwasher out of service is the motor start switch with a terminal that fell off. Not many washers or dishwashers use a external start switch to energize the start winding of the motor, most have them built right inside the motor. The KitchenAid (like GE Filter-Flo washers) use a special switch mounted externally. The way it works is when the motor first starts there is a great rush of power thru the motor with the rotor stationary. This great rush of power causes enough of a surge to close the solenoid switch deep inside this switch box. When the motor gets near full speed (1/4 to 1/2 second) the rush of power subsides and the solenoid opens which removes the power from the little internal solenoid opening the connection to the start winding, hence only leaving the run winding of the motor energized.

I tried to fix this motor start switch but even opening up the box caused it to crack and break even more.

Post# 289010 , Reply# 3   7/6/2008 at 15:16 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
So even though the KA motor is 1/4 horsepower, I decided to try a GE Filter-Flo external start switch for 1/3 hp GE motors. Because the KA has three terminals and GE has four I had to do a little experimenting to get it to work as well as add a jumper wire between two terminals. But it works perfectly! itís a perfectly replacement for a (Iím sure) long NLA KitchenAid motor start switch, YAY.

Post# 289011 , Reply# 4   7/6/2008 at 15:16 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Gravity Drain model no more...

Post# 289012 , Reply# 5   7/6/2008 at 15:18 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Insert a very ***Evil Laugh*** here

Post# 289017 , Reply# 6   7/6/2008 at 16:04 (5,799 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
So! It seems you're wearing your 'mad scientist' hat again, Robert. Haven't seen you in that since the Frankensteinian transformation of a Unimatic washer *LOL*

Post# 289035 , Reply# 7   7/6/2008 at 17:19 (5,799 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Awesome, Dr. Frankenwasher,

simply awesome.

Thanks for posting.


Post# 289038 , Reply# 8   7/6/2008 at 17:35 (5,799 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
An Excellent Job, Robert!

I was about to hit my old Hobart books for the new part number for the relay but I see you were able to get the machine going.
They actually changed to a relay like the one you have there so if you want me to check for you, let me know. We may still be able to get the correct oem item for it thru Hobart.

I like the drain pump you installed. I bet it really drains the machine quickly. Unfortunately, without the drain pump and reservoir installed and the pressure switch, you have no overflow protection except that as long as the motor runs, any excess water will pump out so I guess it isnt too bad.

Lot's of luck with it. Hope to see a real "Bob Load" in it one day!

Post# 289044 , Reply# 9   7/6/2008 at 17:54 (5,799 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
your workshop is as cluttered as mine - yay!

gansky1's profile picture
OH NO!! You're going to make it a top-loader?

Post# 289048 , Reply# 10   7/6/2008 at 18:11 (5,799 days old) by 7080swashertalk ()        

lol, toploader.
thing is, I don't see that as a problem for Robert.

It's amazing how small they made those DWs, considering the amount of space they allotted for it.

Sweet, your adorable pet electroluxs frollicking in the background just as pets often do.

Post# 289050 , Reply# 11   7/6/2008 at 18:21 (5,799 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
You should have seen this machine's Papa and Grandpa!

The original commercial UM series machines were even smaller than this yet could also be had in a standard counter ht machine like this one. They had a shortened tank which only took one rack at a time and that held dishes too. It was probably about 6-8 inches lower than the domestic tank. It fit great underneath the counters at bars as a glasswasher and in donut shops as a full functioning undercounter dishwasher.They were just about everywhere someone needed a fast machine

Post# 289051 , Reply# 12   7/6/2008 at 18:25 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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They actually changed to a relay like the one you have there so if you want me to check for you, let me know. We may still be able to get the correct oem item for it thru Hobart.
Thanks Steve, this one works just fine.

your workshop is as cluttered as mine - yay!
You can say that again ;)

Well step one with the Jig Saw worked just fine, and I'm glad to report not one single leak using a nice thick cork gasket against that beautiful new glass. Later I have to cut away the front of the door. ***Evil Laugh***

Post# 289053 , Reply# 13   7/6/2008 at 18:37 (5,799 days old) by 7080swashertalk ()        

Hobart made some interesting stuff.
The Church I belonged to when I lived in Northboro, MA. had a Hobart undercounter machine. I am guessing it was late 60s or a bit newer.
but it only took one all plastic removable "rack" that had no tines and no wheels. ??? they looked like those racks you see them deliver bread in at the grocery store. I don't know if this was original. Anyway. It was SS and had a pressure guage in the kick space you had to wait until it heated up before using the first time. Anyway, you put the dishes in with detergent and they were done in like 4 minutes. ??? Does that sound right. That is what those long term members at the church said was the way to use it.
Helping at the church one had to organize the plates on this rack without tines. not even a silverware basket. There were about 10 of the plastic racks so you could load them in advance. It seemed to work. I just thought these needed to rinse more than once.

Post# 289056 , Reply# 14   7/6/2008 at 19:44 (5,799 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Ohh, forbidden cycle viewing of wall of water!! I'm not sure of hte exact figure, but 60 gpm!!!

Post# 289064 , Reply# 15   7/6/2008 at 20:24 (5,799 days old) by mihi ()        

Very creative!

Post# 289070 , Reply# 16   7/6/2008 at 20:42 (5,799 days old) by hooverwheelaway ()        

Lots of dishwasher fun!

Looks fabulous...

Which do you think was more nervous? The Dishwasher or the Jigsaw?


Post# 289074 , Reply# 17   7/6/2008 at 20:57 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Which do you think was more nervous? The Dishwasher or the Jigsaw?
I think its answer 'C' Fred, "me" using the jigsaw :)

Well here he is, all ready for his first Action Washload. What I want to do next week is seal up the space between the outer door and the glass, automatically light the dishwasher interior while its running and give it a good paint job! Begone with the "Forbidden to see" cycle! YAY

Post# 289075 , Reply# 18   7/6/2008 at 21:00 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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1st load, not quite a Bob load, but this is all I had to wash from today since we ordered in Chinese delivery.

Post# 289076 , Reply# 19   7/6/2008 at 21:02 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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In goes my Cascade Action Pack, these really do tend to cause more suds than most other dishwasher detergent, (and now I can see exactly how much suds they cause) but they do a good job in vintage machines.

Post# 289078 , Reply# 20   7/6/2008 at 21:04 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Ohhh the fill begins...

Post# 289080 , Reply# 21   7/6/2008 at 21:06 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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And away we go, boy that wash arm spins FAST!!!! Look at the blast action sweep across the window!

Post# 289082 , Reply# 22   7/6/2008 at 21:07 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
blast blast blast

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wash wash wash

Post# 289083 , Reply# 23   7/6/2008 at 21:08 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Some of the Rinse Action

Post# 289088 , Reply# 24   7/6/2008 at 21:45 (5,799 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Cool!! Thanks for posting the pics. It's always fun to see a dw in action. Man, that baby is really throwing water around, isn't it?

Post# 289091 , Reply# 25   7/6/2008 at 21:53 (5,799 days old) by hooverwheelaway ()        
**splashy splashy**

Yay! Fun times!

Post# 289107 , Reply# 26   7/6/2008 at 22:24 (5,799 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

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That's AWESOME!!!! However, this means I have to hop on the next flight which means my bank account will be a little pissed!

I wonder, might there be the possibility of a Super KithenAid? :) And surely videos to display its fabulousness? lol

Post# 289110 , Reply# 27   7/6/2008 at 22:40 (5,799 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Robert what fun!! I love the idea of the built in light that will be automatic. That might be a fun machine to have in the kitchen for a change. I remember that during the washer convention in 2005 Greg had this machine in his kitchen. Boy we were able to get a lot of dishes done in a short amount of time. Keep us posted!!!

Post# 289112 , Reply# 28   7/6/2008 at 22:50 (5,799 days old) by eddy1210 (Burnaby BC Canada)        
no more thou shalt not see

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That is so creative Robert, at first I thought like Greg did that the top was coming off. Will you install it permanently?

Post# 289113 , Reply# 29   7/6/2008 at 22:50 (5,799 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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I wonder, might there be the possibility of a Super KithenAid? :) And surely videos to display its fabulousness?

Nah to the Super KA, its fine the way it is, but once I get it all pretty, videos to come.

That might be a fun machine to have in the kitchen for a change.
I was thinking the same thing Terry, I've always wanted a window door dw in the Kitchen, except I wont be able to hide the dirty dishes now LOL!

Post# 289117 , Reply# 30   7/6/2008 at 23:08 (5,799 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        

Robert! This is Awesome! You have captured so much!
Did you get it on video?
I just love the new see through front! I have always wanted to see this machine in action. And you did it for us!
What fun!
Thanks for sharing!
That WALL OF WATER IS AMAZING! I have never seen it in a still picture, or in Video.
Did you nab a video of it running?
I wonder why Hobart, and other "big boy" dishwasher names did not make a film of there dishwashers running? This would have been awesome on the big screen, and in color for a housewife.

Post# 289120 , Reply# 31   7/6/2008 at 23:24 (5,799 days old) by tuthill ()        

Robert you are sooo good at working with appliances! I'm envious! Very, very cool pictures... it's not every day you see inside a running dishwasher.

Post# 289126 , Reply# 32   7/6/2008 at 23:43 (5,799 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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A dream come true - the big old cast iron spray arm is hidden no longer! Great work Robert.


Post# 289129 , Reply# 33   7/7/2008 at 00:28 (5,799 days old) by wringer_clean (Southeastern Wisconsin)        

Oh Robert, you did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You talked about it when we were all together last weekend
The ultimate in machine fun and drama.
Wow, that was quick!

This is an idea that needs some publicity.
Imagine windows in all diswashers.
Look what it did for front loading washers.
Who in their right mind would buy a front loading washer WITHOUT a window. ( ....Shutter!!)
What, no visual drama.

Next, lightings has to be a standard.
Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It just needs a switch.
Along with a timer and a dimmer.
NO, an LCD that will do anything you want.
(just went over the top!!)
I don't think I want to use my dishwasher for anything other than visual "walk away" drama.

Can't wait to see it in person.
Great Job!!

Post# 289133 , Reply# 34   7/7/2008 at 01:01 (5,799 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        

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Wow that is awsome. Windows should be in every dishwasher.
Thanks for posting.

Post# 289158 , Reply# 35   7/7/2008 at 07:19 (5,799 days old) by tlee618 ()        

That might be a fun machine to have in the kitchen for a change.
That is true Robert but the good thing about that machine is that you will be running it almost daily because of its size. Are you planning on painting it pink??

Post# 289169 , Reply# 36   7/7/2008 at 08:20 (5,799 days old) by spiceman1957 ()        
Re: KitchenAid

This is a cool job you did with your KitchenAid. I always wonder why they don't put windows in dishwashers. That way, you could tell when something was hitting the wash arm. And, give the kids something to entertain them.

Post# 289206 , Reply# 37   7/7/2008 at 13:36 (5,799 days old) by rickr (.)        

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OH! Thats too cool!! Way to go Robert, now thats a "flat screen" lol!!

Post# 289224 , Reply# 38   7/7/2008 at 15:31 (5,798 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Extra Credit Robert

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Absolutely Fabulous. Now when I run my KD2-P I'll know what's going on in there.Eddie

Post# 289240 , Reply# 39   7/7/2008 at 17:03 (5,798 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
45 gpm spraying

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John Cameron Swayze brings you the KitchenAid dishwasher to test a Timex Ladies Waterproof watch. And in full view of just everyone!


Post# 289257 , Reply# 40   7/7/2008 at 18:00 (5,798 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
082&083 spooky, ethereal, water ghosts--FABULOUS

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How in washer-gods name can you make a machine pump that had no pump, no pulley, no terminals--nada? Your gifts make me pull on my nipples, my head loll back and forth, and my eyeballs spin around in my head!!!!!!;'D;'D;'D

Post# 289258 , Reply# 41   7/7/2008 at 18:05 (5,798 days old) by 7080swashertalk ()        
RONALD MC- mickyd

"Your gifts make me pull on my nipples, my head loll back and forth, and my eyeballs spin around in my head"

I would like to see that sometime.
Perhaps a you-tube vid?
... or something kinky, on x-tube.

Post# 289262 , Reply# 42   7/7/2008 at 18:57 (5,798 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Just too cool! You'll have to pull the wash arm out of your 14 to see if there's any difference in the corners. These are such good dishwashers, it's amazing what they can do in mere minutes!

Post# 289274 , Reply# 43   7/7/2008 at 19:40 (5,798 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Hey Robert,

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What is the exact Cycle time on that machine ?
I have the Owner's Book out for my KD2-P and it says the total cycle time is 43 Minutes. 1.5 min Warm up, 1.5 min. Fill, 7 min. Wash ,1 min.Drain,1.5 min Fill, 2 min "Power Rinse", 1 min. Drain, 1.5 min Fill, 1 min. "Final Power Rinse" (I love the "Power" because it is) 1 min Drain, and "Sanitized Hot Air Drying" 24 min. (1,000 watts of course)

Post# 289279 , Reply# 44   7/7/2008 at 19:49 (5,798 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Eddie I believe my cycle is exactly the same.

Greg that is a cool video, BUT my wash arm spins at at least double the rate of the one shown there, according to the manual its suppose to go 100rpm and mine goes at least that. I wonder if that machine is a 14 and the rate is slower, or if there isn't enough water in there????? (but that would be dishonest lol)

Post# 289280 , Reply# 45   7/7/2008 at 19:51 (5,798 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
Keep Pullin' Missy

unimatic1140's profile picture
How in washer-gods name can you make a machine pump that had no pump, no pulley, no terminals--nada?

How could I have missed that comment in my post above lol. I simply wired it in series with the motor, so whenever the dishwasher pump motor is running my drain pump runs as well. Water doesn't drain out during the wash and rinse because the drain solenoid is closed.

Post# 289287 , Reply# 46   7/7/2008 at 20:39 (5,798 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
If you have...

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The "tuned ear", You can recognize the RPM sounds. I know my Kenwhirl,Kds 18, Mobile Maid, all my washers , and DishMachines. I bet that Wash Arm does do 100 RPM. The KDP moves a little when it starts, but I think the centrifugal force of that cast iron spinning, evens out the rocking motion of the portable. And I really think and to me the Cast Iron Wash Arms are truely quiet.

Post# 289291 , Reply# 47   7/7/2008 at 21:01 (5,798 days old) by magic clean ()        
Maybe, maybe not......

Robert said:

"whenever the dishwasher pump motor is running my drain pump runs"

Robert, there maybe an available terminal on the timer for the drain pump, that your machine was not originally equipped with. Wouldn't that be nice?

Post# 289298 , Reply# 48   7/7/2008 at 21:20 (5,798 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Robert, there maybe an available terminal on the timer for the drain pump, that your machine was not originally equipped with. Wouldn't that be nice?

Hi Leslie, nope there is not. The timer had two issues with it, the first increment of wash wasn't working and the first increment of the 1st rinse wasn't working. So I took the entire thing apart and gave it a complete overhaul. There was no extra terminal, besides the drain pump in this machine was connected to the main motor from below and didn't use an separate electric pump. At least that is the way my KDS-14 is.

Post# 289304 , Reply# 49   7/7/2008 at 21:29 (5,798 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Sorry, Lads... but no!

No special connections on the timer for a drain pump. These units were built with motors which accomodated a drain pump that was bolted to the botton of the motor housing and engaged a pin driven thru the rotor shaft below the ball bearing.

Ed(Toploader) should have some pictures he can add here to show the drain pump assy.
One picture is worth a thousand words. Good suggestion to have a connection there but it just never was done.

Most machines used some solenoid setup like these did to hold the water in the tank or a drain solenoid like the later models with the water driven out of the machines by means of a drain impeller.

I dont think they ever had a drain pump of any kind on the original machines as that had a horizontal motor and a lift up drain standpipe which allowed the water to drain when the solenoid energized.
Ed, that pump resembled the SM 6 pump setup which I amsure you are familiar with but still used the big blue washarm found in later models.
If anyone has any info to the contrary on this I would love to see it.

Post# 289316 , Reply# 50   7/7/2008 at 21:49 (5,798 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
Very Nice, Robert

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I vote for putting a vintage B&W TV bezel on the door.

Post# 289317 , Reply# 51   7/7/2008 at 21:50 (5,798 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
I'm also thinking it might be time to get some thick polycarb sheet and make that into a lid for the KD-2P. The Handle assembly could be tricky, though.

Post# 289327 , Reply# 52   7/7/2008 at 22:36 (5,798 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        

Thanks again for the pictures!
The second picture of the water shots is my favorite! You can just see the power of this machine!

Post# 289337 , Reply# 53   7/8/2008 at 04:37 (5,798 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
KitchenAid Pump Assy

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Here are a few shots of the KitchenAid Original Pump Drain.This is a shot before I put in the New Cast Iron Drain Valve The pump constantly runs off the Wash Motor

Post# 289338 , Reply# 54   7/8/2008 at 04:40 (5,798 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
The Pump Unit

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This is the Assembled Unit Before Repair

Post# 289339 , Reply# 55   7/8/2008 at 04:43 (5,798 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
The Trap , Drain, and Pump

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3 pieces

Post# 289340 , Reply# 56   7/8/2008 at 04:46 (5,798 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Pretty Basic

toploader55's profile picture
The solenoid is Energized while Filling, Washing and Rinsing. When the Drain Portion of the cycle arrives the Solenoid Opens and the water goes into the "Trap". and the pump takes it from there.

Post# 289372 , Reply# 57   7/8/2008 at 11:49 (5,798 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
I WANT ONE!!!!!!!!

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As soon as I am able, I want a 12-series Kitchen Aid, and the window just adds to the fun. Robert, I think you should sell window doors for all appliances.

Creativity and good Kitchen Aid engineering wins again!

Post# 289376 , Reply# 58   7/8/2008 at 12:02 (5,798 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
So it works like a unimatic

mickeyd's profile picture
with the pump "hard-wired" under the motor. I get it. Thank you. So easy and so nice when you gifted men explain it.

In R's photo, I missed the side-mounted white pump at the botttom of the screen !!! Duh! so transfixed by the cool mechanicals, forgot to scroll down.

Post# 289394 , Reply# 59   7/8/2008 at 13:28 (5,798 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
You Bastard!

jetcone's profile picture
Frightening a pink Kitchenaid like that!

You Bastard! opening a window on the Forbidden Cycle before me!

I have called Robbie into action from Forbidden Planet! Look out dishwasher killer!

-anonymous kitchenaid owner

Post# 289407 , Reply# 60   7/8/2008 at 15:13 (5,797 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
You Bastard! opening a window on the Forbidden Cycle before me!

Well I figured I better just go ahead and do it, besides Jon you're too busy working on making Dash again, remember

Post# 289412 , Reply# 61   7/8/2008 at 15:33 (5,797 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        
ooooh how fabulous. Beware of #1 witch with power-tools!

~I simply wired it in series with the motor, so whenever the dishwasher pump motor is running my drain pump runs as well.


uhm, I believe you mean wired in parallel. Black to black, (hot) white to white (neutral) wire. Wired in series means the power first goes through one then the other. In that case each one would get half of 110v, and we don't want that!

SPeaking of circuits in series:

So what did you do with the detergent dispenser mechanism? Is it a bi-metal thingie? Let me explain; in some machines (I'm thinking of D&Ms from the 70's) there is a bi-metal "coil" that heats and bends/warps to release the spring-loaded detergent cup. Alas, it is NOT a 110v device and IIRC it was (briefly) wired in series (via the timer) with the heater to reduce its voltage. So, in theory, if the whole works went bye-bye it may be appropiate to electrically "short it out" to ensure the heater is energized at all times.

What say you, sir?

Post# 289421 , Reply# 62   7/8/2008 at 16:12 (5,797 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
uhm, I believe you mean wired in parallel.
Yes Toggles that is what I meant, after I posted that I realized I got the terms parallel and series mixed up. The hot wire is coming from the timer to the drain pump and the neutral wire is tied directly to the neutral buss.

So what did you do with the detergent dispenser mechanism?
In 1957 with the exception of the Hotpoint (I believe) there were no detergent dispensers in dishwashers yet :). In the '57 KitchenAid its simply a little stainless steel cup.

Post# 289429 , Reply# 63   7/8/2008 at 16:41 (5,797 days old) by jbuscemi ()        

mY LATE father pruchased the same machine in 1954. I still use it daily and it has NEVER had a service call. It is extremely well made and if loaded properly will do a great job with the dishes ...and not take all day to do it. The only thing Iv'e ever had to do with it is to replace the rubber impeller in the pump. Not able to find an exact replacement , I took the little pump motor down to our local blacksmith and he fashioned one out of brass. That was 12 or 13 years ago...and it still is perfect.It is a wonderful machine.

Post# 289448 , Reply# 64   7/8/2008 at 18:40 (5,797 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
An impeller "fashioned?"

Hmmm. Great to hear how well your Kitchenaid has worked for all these years. A true testament to how well a machine can be designed.

About that impeller.. I have to wonder if your fixit man didn't just go over to the Hobart office and buy an impeller! Yours was not made of rubber but a bakelite composite and the commercial machines came equipped with a brass impeller as well as all metal pump housings which would probably last for 100 years! Believe it or not, we did change alot of them out when the UM dishwashers were around. They had a brass ring on them which would wear a bit and the washarms would wear out on the matching surface, but considering one of these machines might do 100 or more cycles a day, replacing these parts would not be unexpected after a few years!
In the home..decades if not centuries!

Attached is the parts breakdown of the commercial machine's Pump .You can see the similarities in the parts except for the materials used to make them. Very expensive these days but still available.
Hobart Stopped producing the UM series in 1979 for all intents and purposes. The WM series was already being built and sold and expanded upon from the basic machine. These were based on the 15 series then had a 16 series tank but no dryer, no elements and a single 3 minute cycleand required 180 degree water unless it had a Chlorinator.Later editions of the WM's had regular and extended cycles as well.
Hope your machine gives you more and more years of use.

Post# 289478 , Reply# 65   7/8/2008 at 21:25 (5,797 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
As far as I can remember...

toploader55's profile picture
Early KitchenAids had the mesh baskets to hold the detergent as my Kd2. There was a friend of my Mom's that had a Kd12 and it was mounted in the Silverware basket. The pic I'm attaching my Kd2 (circa 1957) is the exact detergent server for those models.On the Front loaders it used to sit on the left of the silverware basket. On the Top loaders like mine, it sits on the center of the upper rack.

Post# 289479 , Reply# 66   7/8/2008 at 21:27 (5,797 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Wow Steve

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You're unbelievable on the stats Extra Credit

Post# 289525 , Reply# 67   7/9/2008 at 07:35 (5,797 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
To CutMan

jetcone's profile picture
I must note you're pretty lucky there with that hole, you just missed the actuator rod in the door! One quick cut and snap no power when the door bolt engaged to lock the dishes in the Forbidden Cycle.
Did you know that before you went to town with your BUZZ Saw, CutMAN??

Post# 289537 , Reply# 68   7/9/2008 at 08:31 (5,797 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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I must note you're pretty lucky there with that hole

Uh huh, "Measure twice, cut once" Mister.

Post# 290276 , Reply# 69   7/12/2008 at 21:40 (5,793 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

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The dishwasher at Dunkin Donuts was just like that, but all stainless steel, and had a temperature gauge at the bottom panel. It was used mostly to wash the coffee cups and had a very short cycle, one wash (the girls just tossed a teaspoon of detergent on the door) and one rinse. But while the wash was a normal 120 degrees, the rinse was a blistering hot 180 degrees, so no need for a drying heating, the steam just flashed off the cups.

This dishwasher did have the washarm, but it was gray rather than blue, but did not have a heater at all. In back of the store was a water heater that I called the Rude Dragon because it was made by Ruud and sounded like a dragon. In the plumbing on top was a valve arrangment that controlled the temperature of the hot water. The dragon heated the water to too dangerous for the home 180 degrees, and when the dishwasher rinsed, it drew directly from the dragon. But during the wash (there must have been 2 water valves) the dishwasher drew from a mixing valve which mixed some cold water with the incredibly hot water to just have hot water. The other faucets in the store drew from this valve too. The store is all closed up and for sale, and decaying but I think this dishwasher is still there.

Post# 290279 , Reply# 70   7/12/2008 at 21:53 (5,793 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        

I remember the gray wash arms also!
There was a few Waffle Houses that I went to, that were older, and had this type of washer. Was it like a "camel back"?
I had enough drinks in me from the night to ask them if I could play with it. Their cook, you know the rest, said sure....
I never went any further than me playing with this vintage Hobart! I think I washed plates and such for about an hour! (yes, i had to pay the bill for my munchies) Later I even thought about being a dishwasher for them so I could play with it a few hours a week.
What a life right? Youth!

Post# 290284 , Reply# 71   7/12/2008 at 22:43 (5,793 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Of Camels and lump or two?

Neptunebob, the setup for that undercounter at Dunkin was a dual inlet valve setup where the first wash filled, like you said with the "mixed" water from the Dragon and the final rinse would fill thru the second valve for the 180 degree sanitizing portion and then flash dry! That was a model UM4-D with the D signifying "dual" valves! Very logical, no?
As far as Brent and his waffle house nightmares, that was not a UM series he washed dishes in.. That would have been a model
SM-6 machine which was the smaller of the roll top designs Hobart manufactured. That had a smaller than standard 20x20 inch rack so it would fit in the space of the counters at waffle house and was also a popular unit in many donut shops and nursing homes and church kitchens etc.
The UM and KD 10-thru 14 series also had a smaller rack than what we are used to seeing. The 15 and up went to the more industry standard sized racks being used at that time by most manufacturers and would accommodate the standard commercial 20x20 inch racks. In fact the domestic racks for those units were actually even bigger than the 20x20 as the WM's needed a carrier rack to hold the 20x20 and the WM-5s had a slider channel welded to the tank where the rollers would have normally gone so they could eliminate the carrier rack and just use the normal 20x20 racks by themselves.

Interestingly, Hobart stopped production of the SM series and Waffle house had to go to Champion Industries to have them make a new rolltop for them. Hobart required too many of them for a profitable production run. IIRC, Champion's model number was RB-16 and they made them for a short period of time and apparantly have stopped. I guess one of us has to stop by a waffle house and see what they are using!

Post# 290301 , Reply# 72   7/13/2008 at 03:19 (5,793 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture
I remember those well. They did a good job. Hey Steve...They're(Waffle House) maybe changed to Meiko (LOL).

Post# 290397 , Reply# 73   7/13/2008 at 14:40 (5,792 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Somehow I missed this thread. Cool project! I always liked dishwashers with windows since I saw one at an aunt of mine.

Great wash action too, I like the strong spray!


Post# 291849 , Reply# 74   7/20/2008 at 22:29 (5,785 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        
Choices, Choices....

Have you decided on a color yet?
Can't wait to see the video!
I know you have been busy, but just curious.
Hope you had a great weekend!

Post# 291933 , Reply# 75   7/21/2008 at 14:46 (5,784 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Nope not yet, but I did find an amazingly close match to 1950s Frigidaire pink in gloss spray form at Home Depot. I've never seen such a close match to a 50's pink before.

Post# 291936 , Reply# 76   7/21/2008 at 15:06 (5,784 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture
Robert, there's always these psychedelic colors I like...


Post# 291972 , Reply# 77   7/21/2008 at 20:32 (5,784 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        

Pink sounds nice! I always loved the Frigidaire pink!
Are you going to put this in your kitchen? Or have it in your basement?
It would be awesome in your kitchen!

Post# 291993 , Reply# 78   7/21/2008 at 22:09 (5,784 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
As I recall, according to the service manual, the wash arm on the KD-2P is supposed to spin at least 60 rpm with clean water and no detergent. I remember timing mine (obvious from the sound, esp with an empty unit) and it met the spec.

Post# 859680 , Reply# 79   1/2/2016 at 21:13 (3,063 days old) by clariona (New England)        
Washer Arm Design Question

We have a pink KitchenAid K-12 dishwasher that came with our 1959 home that we bought a few decades ago. It still works okay, but it should rotate faster. Is there supposed to be a ball bearing or washer at the top of the shaft where the cast iron wash arm sits? I hear a metal on metal sound when turn it by hand. And when I give it a push, it revolves 1 1/2 times before coming to a stop. What lubrication is recommended? Thanks for any help.

Post# 859821 , Reply# 80   1/3/2016 at 15:26 (3,062 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
What is the wash arm support made of

On your machine? The later models had a bakelite housing that would wear out quicker than the metal housings. If you have the metal housing, it had a brass "bearing" on the top circumference of it that the bottom surface of the wash arm rotated on. If the machine does not get frequent use, these surfaces can develop rust on them or lime scale which cause the wash arm to slow down and in some cases, even freeze up and not turn at all.
You can take some very fine steel wool and polish the surfaces to make sure that they are smooth and that should eliminate the problem. Remember, too, that water works as a lubricant and helps the arm slip while rotating. If the surfaces are dry, you may very likely hear some squeaking from turning the arm.There is no lubrication you can use that won't be washed away by the detergent.
If there is wear on the internal brass bushing that sits over the support pin, which may be causing the problem too, then you will either have to find another arm from one of our members or take it and the top of the support to a machine shop and have them fabricate you a new bronze bearing for the arm. They were pressed in so getting it out will be the real challenge.

It is always great to hear how long these machines have lasted. Whirlpool will never be able to duplicate the longevity designed into the true Hobart Kitchenaid machines.

Post# 859828 , Reply# 81   1/3/2016 at 16:10 (3,062 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        

Robert, If we could start a appliance company, you are in charge of design and engineering!

Post# 859833 , Reply# 82   1/3/2016 at 16:23 (3,062 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture

"Whirlpool will never be able to duplicate the longevity..."


Oh Steve... You're asking for it. LOL


Post# 859875 , Reply# 83   1/3/2016 at 19:39 (3,062 days old) by clariona (New England)        
Bakelite what our support housing is made of. The circular top surface of the support pin is flat and has an inlaid square of brass at its center - about 1/16 inch on each side. I plan to make it a little smoother and examine the wash arm bearing. Last time I looked, there was evidence of the wash arm rubbing on the support housing, a fine circular tracing. What about a brass washer if the upper bearing seems okay?

Post# 859884 , Reply# 84   1/3/2016 at 20:49 (3,062 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        
Draining the KA...

Funny this thread reappeared just now.  I'm sitting a few feet from my  vintage KA dishwasher trying to come up with a plan to drain it.  I was disappointed to read the solenoid is energized the entire cycle then turns off when the unit drains.  Was thinking of starting a thread.


Anyway I have a gravity drain model and I'm installing it in my basement so no way to drain it easily.  I'm putting it next to my mid 70's Whirlpool DW, and I ran a drain line for it about 14" off the floor.  I have the pump assembly from an early 90's GE DW and I was thinking of using it to drain the KA, Looking at the wiring diagram mine shows an optional drain pump wired into the solenoid.  If the solenoid was energized on drain it would work well, now, not sure.  I suppose I could rig up a circuit perhaps with a NC relay, and when the solenoid was de energized the pump would kick in.  Not sure.


Another thought was to run another drain line at floor level and simply drain it into the floor drain in the basement.  It will get little use so I wont be polluting too much, but if you follow the news, the Flint River water is pretty bad without my added dishwasher detergent.  My storm drains that my house tiles are tied into drain into the river about 3/4 mile away..


Post# 860097 , Reply# 85   1/4/2016 at 20:21 (3,061 days old) by clariona (New England)        
Success and Gravity Drains

Thank you. Our KitchenAid K-12 now runs perfectly. A full load of dishes came out sparkling. The wash arm rotates robustly and at full speed, and the splashing action is good and strong. All this as a result of cleaning some of parts (wash arm, support housing and pin, drain strainers) and using steel wool to gently smooth the surfaces of the wash arm support pin and the inner surfaces of the wash arm bearing. Have you ever seen a black K-12? It's almost elegant. We had it commercially enamelled 15 years ago. By the way, the gravity drain on our machine evacuates the water in less than 10 seconds, trouble free for 30 years.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 860161 , Reply# 86   1/5/2016 at 01:37 (3,061 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

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Unimatic, why on earth were you in Bismarck, of all places? That's only 90 miles from me!!!! ;)

Oh, That black is gorgeous!!!

Post# 962939 , Reply# 87   10/16/2017 at 22:04 (2,410 days old) by clariona (New England)        
Replacing Pump Motor Blues

SOS. My black enamel 1959 KD-12 finally had its first serious setback after 59 years of service. The pump motor seized with a screech and some smoke. I plan to repair it (bearings, water seals, lubrication, electrical). I started to remove the motor by following the owners manual instructions. After removing the impeller and eight screws, the motor did not budge. It is supposed to drop downward with some gentle easing. I started to use some force a la rubber hammer and lead hammer. I used penetrating oil, and removed the impeller and the shaft pin. I disconnected the drain valve from the motor by removing its two screws. The only thing that may need removing is a "washer" or ring just below the pin hole, as well as the seal seat, water seal, and related parts, but they do not budge. Is that "washer" the key to releasing this massive motor? There is also a casting (rusty) below all this and it is unclear if that is a firm foundation or the top of the motor. SOS

Post# 962944 , Reply# 88   10/16/2017 at 22:56 (2,410 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Be very careful...

With the shaft seal on that motor.

Here's what to do. If you have gotten the wash impeller off, and the pin that holds the top of the seal out, then carefully remove the top of the seal which could be a ceramic or metal part. They cannot be had from anyone or anywhere. At least without trying to match it up at a really good seal supplier.

The lower half can remain in place in the metal pump housing because the motor shaft will slide right out of it when you take the motor apart.

I assume that you have removed the machine and if not, please do so as this will make it easier to remove the motor. What is holding it in place are the cork gaskets that seal that top tank ring and the lower splash shield to the tank and motor. Once the machine is out. turn the machine upside down and spray some PB Blaster, nothing else...not WD-40 or other penetrating oil. Use the PB Blaster and soak the area around the gasket. Let it seep in and then spray some more. This should soak into the gaskets and help loosen them up.

If you get really lucky, you may be able to jostle the motor loose from the tank. Otherwise, you will have to pry it away from the tank. Go gently and try as best you can to save the metal shields for reuse. You will probably have to make replacement gaskets yourself. I don't know if anyone on the forum has new parts that they can get to you.

Once you have the motor out, you can separate the motor by removing the screws on the bottom and the motor will split into 3 parts. If you have a drain pump mounted on the bottom of the motor, take out the screws holding it to the bottom of the motor and DO NOT separate it from the drain valve. You will likely break the tank like device that attaches to the drain valve.

Those 4 screws that hold the motor together will probably hard to get out so be patient and keep your fingers crossed. I would suggest using a hand held impact driver to shock the screws into turning and work them out slowly if you can. You don't want to break them. When you reassemble the motor, put some anti-sieze on the threads to make it easier to remove them in the future.

If you didn't try to start the machine a lot, hopefully the start windings are not burned badly and you can still get some life out of the motor. If worse comes to worst, you may have to have the motor rewound. Go to a really good motor shop. A good shop worth its salt can rewind any motor. Anyone who blows you off probably does not do good work.
The bearings are standard bearings, permanently lubricated(though at 59 yrs old, the grease probably dried up.) Replace them with sealed bearings, not open faced ones.
If all goes well, you will have a motor ready to last another 60 years. Reinstall the motor into the tank which now, you may want to do with the machine right side up but it is still a bear to do.
A hint to make it easier.. Take one of the motor mounting bolts to Ace Hardware or Home Depot and get a piece of "all-thread" to match the mounting bolt. Cut 3 or 4 pieces maybe 3 or 4 inches long and when you are ready to lift the motor into place, you can thread the all thread into the top of the motor these pilot screws will help you to pull the motor into place and secure it. Install the other screws and then remove the pilot screws and replace them with the correct screws. This will also keep the gaskets and lower shield in place while you are raising the motor. Reinstall the shaft seal and everything else. Water test it and make sure you don't have leaks and you should be good to go.
Just for the record, the part number for the seal is 00-077107 so maybe an internet search will help you. Ideally, you would want to replace it. If you should find one, have the motor shop install the lower part that goes into the top housing before returning it to the machine.

See, how easy that was! Oh man I replaced and rebuilt so many of those motor wghen I was so much younger.

Post# 963016 , Reply# 89   10/17/2017 at 14:13 (2,409 days old) by clariona (New England)        
Ready to Unroll

Thanks SteveT. Your advice is beyond invaluable. I am now ready to proceed. I do have enough rolls of thick cork sheeting in my stockpile to make new gaskets, if need be. And I did notice that fragile layer of carbon in that washer sandwich. I'll still need to find a successful way to hold the motor shaft from turning and getting enough purchase to turn that stubborn washer at the the top of the seal away and off. Even small vise grips can be crude tools. But as you described, all that may be a lot easier once I have the motor on the workbench. Michael.

Post# 963074 , Reply# 90   10/17/2017 at 20:48 (2,409 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Shaft seal question

You are taking about the piece of the seal that is conical in shape and was being held in place with the small pin that the impeller locks on to,right? If so, and it is the metal one, they can really be a PIA to remove without doing damage to the lower carbon seal that is inserted into the top of the motor housing.
Maybe a picture?
You may want to try some PB Blaster on it but in such a way as to not get it on the lower part and chancing ruining the rubber inside the seal. I feel for you as this was usually a no go situation and we usually replaced the motor and installed a new ceramic style upper seal.
Again, the part number for a new seal is 00-077107. Does your machine have the gravity drain on it? If so, you can see if you can locate a new motor p/n 00-070380-00001. It does not allow the drain pump to be attached and only works with the gravity drain.
Maybe someone here on the forum can help you with the parts as they were obsoleted by Hobart back in the early 90's and these are the commercial versions. The domestic versions techniclly became NLA in the mid to late 70's.

Post# 963086 , Reply# 91   10/17/2017 at 23:56 (2,409 days old) by superocd (PNW)        
I'm a little jealous...

Especially when I see that CAST IRON spray arm. What a contrast to my MOL 2014 Whirlpool with a tinny "stainless" arm and the "fishtank" pump. That KitchenAid will probably still be running after my WP quits (I give it five more years, I'm not too confident that the fish tank pump will hold up).

You can definitely see Hobart DNA in that wash arm. It's like a scaled-down model of the ones in the conveyor and the single-tank machines. I remember being invited into the kitchen of my grade school by the lunch ladies. I was intrigued at all the different appliances back there: Blodgett ovens, a pair of Koch and McCall fridges and freezers, Vulcan ranges and the Groen kettle. The one that intrigued me the most was the Hobart single tank machine. I got a peek at the inside and saw the massive spray arm. To a third grader, it was a little ominous looking.

If I could make a recommendation, I'd see if a metal fabricator could fab a trim piece to go around the window to give it a more streamlined look.

Post# 963403 , Reply# 92   10/19/2017 at 16:58 (2,407 days old) by leefree (Los Angeles)        

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Wow neat!

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