Thread Number: 22429
KITCHENAID HYDROSWEEP IN MY POND 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 351110   5/23/2009 at 22:05 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        

around 1971 i saw a kitchenaid ad where they had a pump, motor and hydrosweep out in a pond mounted on a floating device with the motor sealed underneath to show how much water the hydrosweep could spray. it was very impressive, the jets of water shot up over 10 ft at least!

rememberiung that i got the idea to take a hydrosweep and use it in my pond in the back yard as a novelty sprayer.

so far i have not got the bugs worked out of it but here are some pics and the story behind it. i think i can get it, i'm on the right track!

first off i started with a wash support. these are for sale on e bay for 15 bucks if anyone needs one, they fit the 15-17 models.




Post# 351111 , Reply# 1   5/23/2009 at 22:07 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
then i took a pvc toilet flange from home depot

 and mounted a 3" to 1 1/2" reducer on it. next i put a threaded reducer so i could screw on the sump pump hose that would connect it to the pump.

Post# 351112 , Reply# 2   5/23/2009 at 22:08 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another view

 of the flange

Post# 351113 , Reply# 3   5/23/2009 at 22:10 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
next i mounted the wash arm support to the toilet flange

with two nuts and bolts

Post# 351114 , Reply# 4   5/23/2009 at 22:14 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the i mounted the whole thing to a peice of osb plywood

 about 2 feet square just to see if it would float in the pond. it did.

i connected the hydrosweep to a pond pump that i keep in the pond. i used about 20 ft. of sump pump hose to connect it as the pump is by the shore and the pond is 35 feet in diam. and i wanted to have this sprayer in the middle of the pond.

i hooked it up and.....................................

TOTAL FIASCO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BIG ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A BOMB........................................

Post# 351115 , Reply# 5   5/23/2009 at 22:15 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
see what i mean!!!!!!!

 this is all i got out of it!!!

Post# 351116 , Reply# 6   5/23/2009 at 22:16 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i was very disapointed

 this is piddly!!!

Post# 351117 , Reply# 7   5/23/2009 at 22:18 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
with the hydrosweep on it

 it's even more piddly!!!!!

Post# 351118 , Reply# 8   5/23/2009 at 22:19 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
what a joke

 and the joke was on me!!!

Post# 351121 , Reply# 9   5/23/2009 at 22:24 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
then i got another idea (scary thought)

 as you can see when the pump has no hose attached to it it shoots out a great big jet of water. this pic doesn't show it well, the water volume is very high and it shoots it up and out in the pond a good 6 to 8 feet.

so i think having a hose connection to the hydrosweep seriously cuts down on the volume of flow.

Post# 351122 , Reply# 10   5/23/2009 at 22:26 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another view

 it is a high volume pump

Post# 351124 , Reply# 11   5/23/2009 at 22:34 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
SO, WHAT I'M GONNA DO HERE IS

 take the hydrosweep and mount it directly to the pump output and mount the whole thing on a bigger board that will float with the pump attached directly underneath it.

this way there will be no water volume restriction due to a hose and i can float the whole thing in the middle of the pond, or wherever i like.

i have a hunch the results will be much better this way. i am too curious not to do it and will post some pics when i do for anyone interested.

either way it was fun trying it and it will be fun to try this new idea to see if it works. and the pond is really my dog duke's summer swimming hole and he couldn't care less if i have a hydrosweep in it or not. as long as he can swim around in it all day long looking for frogs and goldfish he's happy!

Post# 351126 , Reply# 12   5/23/2009 at 22:36 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
to be continued

 soon as i have time to work on it some more!

thanks

Post# 351127 , Reply# 13   5/23/2009 at 22:38 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
thought i was putting this in the "super" section

 where it probably belongs. sorry! maybe "samantha" can move it for me like she did once before!

Post# 351186 , Reply# 14   5/24/2009 at 08:35 (5,450 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
what a great idea....can't wait to see your next attempt...


I wonder if this will work in my pool...that has a powerful pump that shoots water up thru a sprayer in the center for effect....I don't know why I never thought of this before, after all, this is my specialty, rigging things up, and what beter way to show talent of our interest but to have a wash arm performing a water show in MOTION, especially at night with the underwater lghts...if this works...I'll do videos....and then off to the fish pond, those frogs will think it's raining for days...ok maybe a smaller wash arm for this application....but we'll see...

what a great dog you got there...Ripley my siberian love the water too...can't keep her out of the pool, she likes to duck under and pop her head out...unusual animals we have!

Post# 351206 , Reply# 15   5/24/2009 at 10:45 (5,450 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Wow, you really need to get video footage of this ambitious and eccentric project on YouTube!

And remember, nothing works as well in real life as it does in commercials, LOL.

Post# 351221 , Reply# 16   5/24/2009 at 11:34 (5,450 days old) by everythingold (Grand Rapids, Michigan)        

everythingold's profile picture
Pete, you're great.

Post# 351260 , Reply# 17   5/24/2009 at 13:54 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i have a video camera i have had for years

 but i have no idea how to get a video onto u tube, i'm not that knowlegable on computer stuff. if someone can e mail me and tell me i would like to do a u tube post on this project. i would also like to put some footage of my rollermatic on it, plus show my dishwashers.

my e mail is soberleaf@yahoo.com

thanks for the support, i was feelin pretty stupid about the whole idea after it fizzled out on me the other nite but i will try again! i wanna see that hydrosweep in action in the pond. if i had a way to seal a kitchenaid motor watertight i would simply install a kitchenaid pump and motor in something and put it in the pond like they did in that 60's ad. there might be a way, my mind is starting to wander in that direction (also a scary thought).

yea, duke is a trip. weimeraner i got at the pond 3 years ago, loves water! loves to eat frogs! and fish when he can catch em. i had over 100 frogs at one time and i hate for him to kill them but unless i stood there all day watching him i can't stop him. and that pond is his main enjoyment outside so i don't have the heart not to let him be in it. i just stopped buying tadpoles for the pond as i hate to kill animals needlessly.

here he is like a duck!

why don't we start a post on the super section and show our pets?

Post# 351261 , Reply# 18   5/24/2009 at 13:55 (5,450 days old) by soberleaf ()        
that's pound, not pond

 i got him at the pound, he lives in the pond!

Post# 351263 , Reply# 19   5/24/2009 at 13:59 (5,450 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Check your specs!

 I love the idea of having the HydroSweep fountain in the pond. Leave it to you to come up with something like this!
Start by making sure that your sump pump will pump from 40 -60 gals a minute so you duplicate the specs of the original pump inside the dishwasher. Then you will have to really shorten that corrugated hose or else use a smooth bore hose. The corrugations slow the water down tremendously. You can even see this inside the house if you have corrugated hose on the drain of the dishwasher. It can restrict the flow enough to leave water in the bottom of the tank. Also, make sure you are using a new washarm support and washarm so that they seal better. Seemed to be lots of water coming out of the center holes which really should not be that evident. A new arm and support will "click" together when they match up. That is what the brass split ring is for. Also, you should use a nice thick cork gasket under the support where it meets the toilet flange and use 4 screws. That way you will seal that completely and prevent leaks around the bottom of the support housing as well as seal off that small opening you can see in your pictures. That was intended to push a stream of water into the sump to help wash down any food left there.
I would say to try that and see what happens.

Also, you have to realize that the upper housing was designed to have the spinning pump impeller direct the water into the volutes cast in the housing. unless you leave enough room in there for your water to make it to the volutes, you may have a built in restriction in your home made pump chamber between the flange and support.
One more thing.. make sure that you block of the opening that is between the volutes.That was the original inlet for the pump. But I am sure you realized that already. You don't want to lose all the pressure thru that big hole!
I think you are on the right track and need to tweak it some more and it will work fine.

BTW, being the obsessive compulsive that I can be sometimes, The washarm support will fit a 15 series machine but the filters will not work correctly. That particular support was obsoleted many years ago which was a shame. The ones you have do, of course fit both the 16 and 17 as they were identical.

Keep the project going and the pictures coming

Post# 351347 , Reply# 20   5/24/2009 at 21:16 (5,449 days old) by soberleaf ()        
thanks

 i did plug that center hole with a fender washer and nut and bolt and rubber gasket.

the pump i'm using is a submersible pond pump i have had for a few years, expensive little sucker, not sure what the flow rate is, i could call jones fishery in cinti and find out. i'm sure it's at least 60 gal/min. that's 360 gal/hr. i will find out.

my next idea is to mount the pump directly under the toilet flange using a short peice of 1 1/2 pvc about 3 inches long. that's gotta increase the flow rate considerably.

i agree about the gasket between the flange and the housing, once i get it more in line with the way it should be i will seal it. i also am using a new wash arm support, i buy em on e bay for 15 bucks but alas my hydrosweep is off one off my machines! i've never bought a new one (yet).

at first i didn't understand what you meant by the volutes but now i do and i did check that when i mounted the support to the flange. but i will check it again.

do you remember that origional ad steve? i remember it was very early 70's when i saw it cause i worked in an appliance store and i was 16 so it had to be around 1971. i used to love looking at the kitchenaids! i dreamed of having one but we were poor and i couldn't afford one yet!

now thanks to this great site and people like you and including you who have helped me i own 17 of them! and i have 5 more lined up if i decide to buy them (gotta save some money first, my trip to michigan to see everythingold was my big splurge).

anyway you always steer me right and i appreciate your advice (steve) and will take note of all you said when i continue with this project.

any ideas on how to sink a motor and pump assembly into something waterproof so i could duplicate the origional way it was done?

thanks, pete

Post# 351381 , Reply# 21   5/24/2009 at 23:28 (5,449 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
designs? Here's one!

 How about taking a pump and an actual tank and mount the pump thru the bottom of the tank so the motor is now inside the tank? Seal off the door opening and any other openings in the tank including the power line. Now you have a vessel which should float. Add some ballast to the tank so the motor will sit below the surface enough to pull some nice water volume thru the pump intake. Plug up the constant rinse line and the drain outlet and if you get the pump running in the water, you will have duplicated the conditions inside the tank of a normal machine. Kind of getting the picture of what I mean?
Maybe you will need Robert to help you with fabricating a seal even if it is plexiglas for now. But I bet you can get something going from this angle.

Post# 351498 , Reply# 22   5/25/2009 at 11:25 (5,449 days old) by soberleaf ()        
now that's an idea i would never have thought of

an inside out, upside down kitchenaid!!!

hmmmm, i might get a chance to do some more on this later this week. will post pics when i do.

thanks

Post# 351510 , Reply# 23   5/25/2009 at 12:58 (5,449 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        
Neat, but...

turquoisedude's profile picture
don't let my hubby know about this! We're in the process of doing some landscaping and a pond is part of it - I just don't want him to get any funny ideas about how to use a GE impeller drive wash system!!
Seriously, that is pretty darn cool!!

Post# 351574 , Reply# 24   5/25/2009 at 17:35 (5,449 days old) by soberleaf ()        
would your hubby

 or you know wher i can find a pump seal for an old g.e. mobile maid dishwasher with a spray arm from the late 60's perhaps.

as for the pond display i am going to get it to work. i just have to keep fooling with it and i am seriously trying to come up with a way to use the entire motor and pump unit from a kitchenaid. just have to figure a way to insure it's watertight so i don't destroy a 1/2 h.p., gold seal motor in the process.

when there is a will........... there are relatives i always say!!!

Post# 351626 , Reply# 25   5/25/2009 at 20:42 (5,448 days old) by 70series ( Connecticut.)        

Beautiful dog. He looks very happy.

Have a good one,
James

Post# 351665 , Reply# 26   5/25/2009 at 23:02 (5,448 days old) by soberleaf ()        
he's happy alright!

 when he's in the pond he's happy. when he steals my bread and eats a whole loaf he's happy! when he kills my frogs and runs around the yard with them hanging out of his mouth he's happy!
when he barks at the neighbor's kids cause he wants to play he's happy! when he chases the cats he's happy! when he hogs all the covers in bed he's happy! it doesn't take much to amuse him!

Post# 351666 , Reply# 27   5/25/2009 at 23:06 (5,448 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i'm gonna start a post for pet pics

 on the super section, it can be fun. we have all kinds of topics there from politics to what underwear we wear so why not pets?

Post# 351688 , Reply# 28   5/26/2009 at 00:05 (5,448 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Water flow to hydrosweep

 combo52's profile picture
Stevet is right you need more water flow. 60 gallons a muinte times 60 an hour is 3600 gallons of water an hour not 360. we used to take a top loading KA portable DW outside and run it with the top open and the water would go at least ten feet in the air.

Post# 351694 , Reply# 29   5/26/2009 at 00:14 (5,448 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)        

spankomatic's profile picture
Somehow it seems a dishwasher rack is needed in this pond invention.....

Post# 351706 , Reply# 30   5/26/2009 at 00:44 (5,448 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i have a kd-5

 and i was thinkin of doin the same thing, runnin it outside with the top open to see how high it would shoot.

thanks for the correction on the math, ofcourse it's 3600 gal/hr. i was not thinking there. i'm not sure what the volume of the pond pump is, gonna find out this week.

i also am actively looking for some type container that i can mount the motor and lower pump housing on the inside of that will be completely waterproof. like a bucket with a lid that screws on that would be waterproof, that way i could replicate the entire pump in the pond. i work at home depot and everything in the store is being observed by me for it's possible use in this project.

Post# 351707 , Reply# 31   5/26/2009 at 00:45 (5,448 days old) by soberleaf ()        
dishwasher rack?

 sure, if i get it running i'll stick a rack out there too!

Post# 351787 , Reply# 32   5/26/2009 at 07:07 (5,448 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)        

spankomatic's profile picture
Cool!

Post# 351791 , Reply# 33   5/26/2009 at 07:12 (5,448 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        
pump seal for an old g.e. mobile maid dishwasher

turquoisedude's profile picture
Peter, it may be a long shot, but if you happen to have the model number, I can try asking at my favorite parts guy's store. I am way overdue for a visit for a Westy part hunt... Email me if you prefer.

Post# 351805 , Reply# 34   5/26/2009 at 07:43 (5,448 days old) by soberleaf ()        
thanks! the model

no of the mobile maid is SM 301D2

i sent that no to a parts supplier on the web and they told me it was the wrong no. but that is what is clearly stamped on the name plate on the back of the machine.

Post# 351827 , Reply# 35   5/26/2009 at 09:00 (5,448 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture
Yeah, that sounds like "HMM. That's older machine and I don't feel like digging for parts" answer to me! No guarantees, but I will see what I can find for you!


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