LA7800XP Tranny

Actually, 1987 was the last year of belt-drives, but in the end they were made mostly for commercial use. I recently saw one in a Holiday Inn Express in Lodi, CA with a serial of C712xxxxx. It was definitely NOT a 1977 model. The last Kenmores were made in the third quarter of 1986, and WPs went on a few more months.

About the transmission - that to me looks very much like a transmission that has been the victim of water leakage through the centerpost. I have seen and dealt with a number of these, low mileage machines or not. The culprits are the spin tube seal (which almost always goes bad - late model production or otherwise) AND the bearing seals.

What happens is fairly straight forward. All Whirlpool belt-drive machines depend on an air pocket forming under the agitator. When a machine is healthy, the air pocket forms at the top of the agitator skirt, just as it begins to rise into the center. As the seals wear, they can't trap the air as efficiently, and the escaping air allows water to rise up the centerpost. This is worsened by frequent high water levels, etc. as the higher the level, the more push-down pressure on the seals.

In 1977 and older belt-drives, the taller centerposts of these machines usually prevent (note I say "usually") contamination of the centerpost, but the short-post 1978 and later models commonly flood themselves after while. In the older machines, this is how the centerposts get rusty - water creeps up too high on the post and gets metal wet which when new stayed dry.

The first thing that fails is the spin tube seal, which will grind a wear mark ring on the agitator shaft. Later on, the bearing seals (of which there are two large seals on a short post machine and a single shallow seal on the tall post models) do the same thing on the spin tube.

Once water begins seaping into the centerpost, it works its way down to the transmission. Oil/grease from the centerpost mixes with the water and slowly covers the components underneath with grossness. Once water gets into the transmission itself, it eventually rusts the internals of the transmission enough to make a chocolate milk looking oil mixture. Some transmissions won't allow water to come in if the shaft seal is in good shape. However, if your transmission is leaking oil when the machine is layed down, it will allow water in as well.

My advice is to take apart the transmission as you plan, clean and re-oil it, then replace the two springs and the shaft seal. Definitely however, replace the spin-tube and bearing seals (not a simple job unless you have the right tools) and your machine should be good to go for another serivce "lifetime". Do not re-use a spin tube or transmission shaft if rough spots are worn on them from the old seals, as this will wear the new seals prematurely. An old agitator shaft from a short post machine can be re-used in a tall post machine where the seals mate up at different points, and vice versa.

Let me know if you need any help!

Gordon


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Post# 381996 9/29/2009 at 04:38 (5,323 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes Checking into this belt-drive machine to see what may be ailing it, I found the transmission apparently has been leaking oil. Leaned over 90° I know they leak a little, but this is a stream of drops maybe one per minute. The oil dripping out didn't appear to be contaminated. Based on this pic, does anyone see evidence of a water leak getting into the tranny? The centerpost bearings are healthy, it has not been subject to heavy use. A spring/seal kit is still available for the agitator shaft, cheap. I plan on cleaning it up, refreshing the oil, changing that seal, and the cover gasket of course. I haven't been into a tranny in years, so wish me luck! Any advice is appreciated. S/N C606. 6th week of 1996. That's near the end of belt-drive production, yes?

Post# 382002 , Reply# 1 9/29/2009 at 06:49 (5,322 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()
Checkrate/Likes I haven't been into a tranny in years, so wish me luck! LOL Go slowly, they are sensitive.

Post# 382003 , Reply# 2 9/29/2009 at 06:54 (5,322 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Belt Drive Tranny Death* I thought the belt drive trannies ended in the mid 80's. Like 1986-ish. I could be wrong. MRB

Post# 382010 , Reply# 3 9/29/2009 at 07:45 (5,322 days old) by andrewinorlando ()
Checkrate/Likes 1986 was the last year of belt drive machines for Whirlpool.

Post# 382027 , Reply# 4 9/29/2009 at 12:18 (5,322 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes Oops. Wrong year. Slip of the finger. S/N = 1986.

Post# 382034 , Reply# 5 9/29/2009 at 13:39 (5,322 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes Actually, 1987 was the last year of belt-drives, but in the end they were made mostly for commercial use. I recently saw one in a Holiday Inn Express in Lodi, CA with a serial of C712xxxxx. It was definitely NOT a 1977 model. The last Kenmores were made in the third quarter of 1986, and WPs went on a few more months. About the transmission - that to me looks very much like a transmission that has been the victim of water leakage through the centerpost. I have seen and dealt with a number of these, low mileage machines or not. The culprits are the spin tube seal (which almost always goes bad - late model production or otherwise) AND the bearing seals. What happens is fairly straight forward. All Whirlpool belt-drive machines depend on an air pocket forming under the agitator. When a machine is healthy, the air pocket forms at the top of the agitator skirt, just as it begins to rise into the center. As the seals wear, they can't trap the air as efficiently, and the escaping air allows water to rise up the centerpost. This is worsened by frequent high water levels, etc. as the higher the level, the more push-down pressure on the seals. In 1977 and older belt-drives, the taller centerposts of these machines usually prevent (note I say "usually") contamination of the centerpost, but the short-post 1978 and later models commonly flood themselves after while. In the older machines, this is how the centerposts get rusty - water creeps up too high on the post and gets metal wet which when new stayed dry. The first thing that fails is the spin tube seal, which will grind a wear mark ring on the agitator shaft. Later on, the bearing seals (of which there are two large seals on a short post machine and a single shallow seal on the tall post models) do the same thing on the spin tube. Once water begins seaping into the centerpost, it works its way down to the transmission. Oil/grease from the centerpost mixes with the water and slowly covers the components underneath with grossness. Once water gets into the transmission itself, it eventually rusts the internals of the transmission enough to make a chocolate milk looking oil mixture. Some transmissions won't allow water to come in if the shaft seal is in good shape. However, if your transmission is leaking oil when the machine is layed down, it will allow water in as well. My advice is to take apart the transmission as you plan, clean and re-oil it, then replace the two springs and the shaft seal. Definitely however, replace the spin-tube and bearing seals (not a simple job unless you have the right tools) and your machine should be good to go for another serivce "lifetime". Do not re-use a spin tube or transmission shaft if rough spots are worn on them from the old seals, as this will wear the new seals prematurely. An old agitator shaft from a short post machine can be re-used in a tall post machine where the seals mate up at different points, and vice versa. Let me know if you need any help! Gordon

Post# 382038 , Reply# 6 9/29/2009 at 13:46 (5,322 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)
Checkrate/Likes *Ah Gordon* How I missed your huge disquisitions and generous propositons.

Post# 382040 , Reply# 7 9/29/2009 at 14:10 (5,322 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes Now that I examined in further detail, there is a substantial wear ring on the agitator shaft. I did several bearing replacements (long centerpost) years ago when working for a local Whirlpool dealer (long out of business), so I know better than to attempt it without the required tool, which I don't have. There's no point in going into the transmission unless I can find a bearing-setter tool to do the job properly, along with replacing the agitator shaft and spin tube. Do current direct drive machines use the same bearing tool as short post belt drives?

Post# 382063 , Reply# 8 9/29/2009 at 16:03 (5,322 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes Direct drive machines use basically the same identical bearings and seals, however the DD uses two identical tall bearings, whereas the BD uses a tall and a short one. The parts are interchangeable, but apparently nobody does or needs to do bearing jobs on DDs. The whole machine is not worth the labor charges. Actually, bearing jobs on short post BD models are seldom necessary either unless they get too wet. Therefore, the proper tools are very hard to find. Last year I set out to get the tools, and wound up finding them on ebay, used. I had to combine three purchases to get the proper parts to assemble two tools (a puller and an installer). Robinair was the manufacturer of the tools and they don't even know what they were anymore. Odd are however, that if you have a relationship with a long-time service company in your area, someone has an old tool laying around. I almost bought a new set in the early 90s (would have been close to $300). I believe the old Gemline had the tools as well. If/when you do this work, don't toss the old agitator shaft away, I may be able to trade you one from a tall-post machine, etc.