Thread Number: 283
The Forbidden to see Hydro-Sweep EXPOSED!
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Post# 46998   10/14/2004 at 19:07 (7,105 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Well I took a little break from working on the Kelvinator to finish up my Forbiden-Cycle Plexiglass project for my KD-15 KitchenAid Dishwasher...

Yay for Plexiglass...


Installed in Door...


Starting to Fill...


The Pressure is Building...


Full Washing Power!...



And since I know you guys and gals are just dying to see this live, I made a video for all to see, right click and save target as (4mb)...

Hydro-Sweep EXPOSED






Post# 46999 , Reply# 1   10/14/2004 at 19:30 (7,105 days old) by jmirawm (Barling Arkansas)        
FRIGGIN FABOU !!!!!

I am so Excited !! I have not saw the video yet,

but just know it is gonna be FRIGGIN FABOU !!!!!

Robert you are the best....... THANKS !!!!! Tom


Post# 47001 , Reply# 2   10/14/2004 at 20:24 (7,105 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Hydro-Sweep

peteski50's profile picture
Robert,
This is so Great - I love the video - don't we all wish all dishwashers were made with windows!
Peter


Post# 47002 , Reply# 3   10/14/2004 at 20:27 (7,105 days old) by Brent-Aucoin ()        
That was super Robert!

Robert,
Thanks so much for that fantastic treat! It was also great to see a picture of you.
You are really getting good with the plexiglass cutting! It worked great!
One question...Does the Hydrosweep turn even faster when there is a full load,loaded?
I just love the sounds!
Thanks once again.
Brent


Post# 47006 , Reply# 4   10/14/2004 at 21:45 (7,105 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

That is really awesome! How did you rig the light? I need the dimensions so I can do the same thing with mine! Must be great fun to watch. Thanks for the photos! -Steve

Post# 47007 , Reply# 5   10/14/2004 at 22:34 (7,105 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Thanks everyone, I’m glad you enjoyed the video. Brent I can’t take credit for cutting this Plexiglas door myself. I did make two attempts at first and both ended up to be a disaster. Lets just say after I tried each one I had a very clean kitchen floor after mopping up the mess. So I decided to go to Target and buy a big piece of poster board and cut out a template in the exact shape of the interior of the dishwasher well. I took the cutout to “Idyllic Acrylics” and they cut a perfect clear door and extruded it out one inch so it would clear the racks as they stick out of the well about 3/4”.

Steve, I rigged up the light using a rubber weather proof light socket and a coated 75 watt “Tuff-Bulb” both of which are available at Home Depot.

Here is a shot doing the first real load of dishes tonight. After the two pre-rinse cycles I pulled the door open just enough to pop in an Electrosol Gel-Pac.


Post# 47012 , Reply# 6   10/14/2004 at 23:28 (7,105 days old) by westytoploader ()        

Robert that is one cool dishwasher! LOVED the video--that spray arm moves FAST!!! YAY!

You had to laugh...after my Monitor tabletop washer arrived, I didn't realize you had to fill it up to the water line. I filled it halfway up the pulsator, and...well, let's just say I cleaned the cabinets, counter, and floor all at the same time!


Post# 47014 , Reply# 7   10/15/2004 at 01:50 (7,105 days old) by CleanteamofNY ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Wow, I love the way it pre-soak the dishes before the arm ramps up to speed! That's some hook-up you got there Robert!

Post# 47016 , Reply# 8   10/15/2004 at 02:04 (7,105 days old) by kenmore1978 ()        
Electro-Sol Gel paks

I hope you had better luck with the Electra-Sol Gel paks than I did in my '62 KM 600 TL DW. Besides the act that the dispenser design is not suited for them, it left a milky film over everything that looked like a hard water film. Scared me at first since it wouldn't wash off. Fortunately, it came off after I re-washed the load using Cascade. Called Reckitt & Colman who sent me coupons for a lot of their products. Currently using the powder Electra-Sol and it seems to work just fine.

Post# 47018 , Reply# 9   10/15/2004 at 03:39 (7,105 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Great video! Thanks for sharing that with us!

I remember an aunt of mine had a frontloading dishwasher with a little window in it. Can't remember what brand it was, I think I was 6 or so when I saw it.


Post# 47021 , Reply# 10   10/15/2004 at 07:03 (7,104 days old) by agiflow-action ()        
Wow

Robert thanks, I always wanted to see or hear a KA dw with 4 way wash arm in action, thanks again.

Post# 47023 , Reply# 11   10/15/2004 at 08:46 (7,104 days old) by jaxsunst ()        
Good Job

Robert, you amaze me. Where do you find the time to do all of this?

Post# 47027 , Reply# 12   10/15/2004 at 11:11 (7,104 days old) by i70sn80sguy ()        
excellent

the light, such detail.

Excellent job.


Post# 47028 , Reply# 13   10/15/2004 at 11:16 (7,104 days old) by golittlesport (California)        
woohoo!

golittlesport's profile picture
Yay for plexiglass!!!!

Post# 47029 , Reply# 14   10/15/2004 at 12:22 (7,104 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
How freakin' cool is THAT?! Thanks for the illuminated window into the heretofore unseen world of automatic dishwashing, Robert.



Post# 47030 , Reply# 15   10/15/2004 at 12:41 (7,104 days old) by gregm ()        
wow

way cool, thanks for your time and effort in sharing ......

Post# 47032 , Reply# 16   10/15/2004 at 14:02 (7,104 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Wow!

Thanks, Robert!

This is even more interesting than the Apex, and that was cool.


Post# 47033 , Reply# 17   10/15/2004 at 14:07 (7,104 days old) by steve1-18 (Grovetown (Augusta), GA)        

Great video. I was surprised to see how slow the wash-arm turned. I always pictured it spinning faster (more like a lawn sprinkler.)

Steve1-18


Post# 47034 , Reply# 18   10/15/2004 at 14:36 (7,104 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

Since these machines have no noise insulation you can really hear the water sweeping abound the tub. I can remember early on, hearing the water surge around in my parents old K-Aid. I kind of got the impression then that the spray arm did not turn too fast,but put out a very powerful spray. We used to pack it full and it always cleaned everything right the first time! Georgedon commented that he did not see how water could reach the things on the upper rack with the lower one loaded with pots and dishes, but it did and it got it all clean ---with that one spray arm!. Thanks to GregM I have a '65 Superba I can't wait to get hooked up. (I am remodeling the kitchen).Maybe I will be able to figure out Roberts' system for a little "Superba" entertainment! -Steve

Post# 47035 , Reply# 19   10/15/2004 at 14:45 (7,104 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)        
See it wash!

peterh770's profile picture
Fun video. I wonder if wash arm velocity is proportional to cleaning ability, depending on the make...? Would a Frigidaire Hydrosweep work better if slowed?

Will this video make it to the


Post# 47040 , Reply# 20   10/15/2004 at 16:38 (7,104 days old) by laundramatt (Youngstown, Ohio)        

Great video Robert,

It would be fun if you made to see a video where you put about a cup of Tide in there....just as an experiment, you know?...


Post# 47071 , Reply# 21   10/15/2004 at 21:24 (7,104 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Question about the light

Robert, you told how you did it with the all weather socket, and severe service bulb. How is it switched? Is it on all the time the machine is on? I think a light in a dishwasher is (all puns fully intended), a brilliant idea.

Post# 47077 , Reply# 22   10/15/2004 at 21:51 (7,104 days old) by drmitch ()        
The next big thing

Now if we could just add winshield wipers---------!

Post# 47079 , Reply# 23   10/15/2004 at 22:17 (7,104 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
The light is simply attached to a cord which is run out under the bottom edge of the plexiglas door and plugged into a wall socket. There is no switch on it and it is just meant to be temporary only used when I'm using the clear door.

Post# 47086 , Reply# 24   10/15/2004 at 23:56 (7,104 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
Consulting KA Doctrine...

gansky1's profile picture
I've been reading the manuals for some of the KA models lately and found some interesting stats. Here's a bit of a summary for those interested in wash arm water volume and jet velocity, and some KA/Hobart milestones in the domestic lines.


KD-10 10/49 - 4/55 Cast Iron wash arm 40 gpm at 60 rpm

KD-11 4/55 - 4/57 Cast Iron wash arm 40 gpm at 60 rpm

KD-12 4/57 - 8/60 Improvements to rack designs, wash systems same as prev.

KD-14 8/60 - 12/64 Same stats for washing systems but now 3 models in this series with updated look for new "Superba" and "Imperial" models.

KD-15 12/64 - 3/68 HydroSweep wash arm 40 gpm at 52 rpm sani-cycle on Superba w/180F final rinse. All models have pump drains standard.

KD-16 3/68 - 5/71 Same washing stats but more cycles added and later in the series, the first Soak cycle and Party Cycles are offered.

KD-17 5/71 - 7/76 HydroSweep arm; 40 gpm at 45 rpm, 10 psi at each jet with constant rinse at top of tank. 16 position upper rack which was removable for washing very large items

KD-18 7/76 - 7/79 3 level wash system; first 50 gpm pump delivers 32 gpm to HydroSweep arm, 16 gpm to center arm, both moving at 35 rpm in opposing directions and 2 gpm to constant rinse above upper rack. "Patrician" model intro'd.

KD-19 7/79 - 2/81 Infamous Energy Saver system; 150F heated cycles but no heated drying. Improved center wash arm to reach corners of upper rack.

KD-20 2/81 - 3/84 Heated drying returns! Sani-cycle has 165F final rinse temp. Sure-Temp heats the first fill and during any phase using detergent.

KD-21 3/84 - 86-87? Major pump improvements, true waste disposal system, 7 decibels quieter than KD-17 series machines.






Post# 47091 , Reply# 25   10/16/2004 at 00:31 (7,104 days old) by agiflow-action ()        

I have to say one thing about the WP/KA relation....At least WP stayed with the Hobart design for nearly ten years before they morphed it into what it is to day.Such a shame. It only seems like a few years ago,you could walk into a showroom,and the boldnesss of a KA dw would just drip quality,heavy chrome and the look of just plain durability all over it.It sucks what we have to pay for now

Post# 47114 , Reply# 26   10/16/2004 at 08:11 (7,103 days old) by parunner58 (Davenport, FL)        
KA constant rinse above upper rack

parunner58's profile picture
Hi,

When did KA remove the "constant rinse above upper rack" To me that was a very stupid mistake. We bought an Energy saver Superba in 1983 and it did was exceptionaly well but we would get as we called sand stuck in some of the concave bottoms of things in the upper rack. But as you said they were built like trucks. In 1997 when the motor burned out we decided not te replace it with another very exspensive but cheaply built KA. SOn't laugh but we bought a Frigidaire Gallery and it actually does a far superior job at wahing

Mike


Post# 47116 , Reply# 27   10/16/2004 at 09:01 (7,103 days old) by agiflow-action ()        

It looks that Electrolux has improved the quality of Frigidaire
somewhat.I like the current dw's from Frigidaire. Three way lower wash arm and direct feed middle arm.The plastic tub seems to be of better quality than what WP is using in their tall tub machines.


Post# 47121 , Reply# 28   10/16/2004 at 10:13 (7,103 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Electrolux

peteski50's profile picture
Hi Agiflow
Actually I dont realy know how much a improvement Electrolux made. The newer machines are impressive with the 3 way arm and all these other things. But time will tell if they are quarlity machines. I still love my GE tall tub.
Peter


Post# 47122 , Reply# 29   10/16/2004 at 10:22 (7,103 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Consulting KA Doctrine...

peteski50's profile picture
My mom had the kds 19 series (KD-19 7/79 - 2/81 Infamous Energy Saver system; 150F heated cycles but no heated drying. Improved center wash arm to reach corners of upper rack.)

In fact only 4 months ago she replaced it. Cleaned very well but cycle time long. If you didn't use jetdry the drying performance wasen't great. They could have done a better job with the design and long water heating pauses. But todays machines run a long time also.

She now has GE tall tub like myself and likes the DW - but states that the KA was built like a tank. And yes where ever
you go you cannot get a solid built DW like that.

It's sad that the newer KA's are not great performers!

Peter


Post# 47126 , Reply# 30   10/16/2004 at 11:54 (7,103 days old) by i70sn80sguy ()        
The fridigidaires

I think the best dishwashers, today, are Frigidaire mid and top of the line(domestic). I had a 2000, which they still make the same, SOO quiet and an excellent cleaning job. And the flexibility, you can do a half load with all the dishes on top or bottom, your choice, its so efficient.
On the flip side though, don't get the cheapest Frigidaires, the ones with the spindal in the middle of the lower rack, No.

Kitchenaids were the Best, what was whirlpool thinking in the late 90s? Now KA is nothing but a whirlpool with the KA name slapped on. I don't think they even divide the models the way they used to. The last time I looked they had 3 different functioning models and you could get each model in your choice of 3 different console types. 9 models total. Blah, Blah.
I like Roberts idea here, it's less messy than simply hot wiring the switch and leaving the door open. Something I tried as a young adolescent. But the machine was outside when I turned it on.




Post# 47155 , Reply# 31   10/16/2004 at 18:33 (7,103 days old) by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass)        

In defense of Kitchenaid, I own a Kenmore Elite (Kitchenaid clone) and can honestly say it is the BEST cleaning dishwasher I have EVER had! And as a repairman, I've tried them all. GE standard tub is too hard to load;always hated the bottom rack. Frigidaires have improved over the last few years, but I'm not crazy about plastic tubs anymore. I do think stainless steel makes a big difference in holding the heat better. I liked my Whirlpool with the silverware in the door. Out first d/w was a D&M Kenmore with roto-rack. Did a good job but was noisy and used a lot of water. Same for Kitchenaid, though the quality was better. Honestly, for as little water as it uses, most all my pots & pans and dishes come out gleaming and squeeky clean. I don't remember the last time I bought a box of Brillo soap pads! Enzyme detergent certainly helps with cleaning stubborn food soils.
And I never prerinse!!! Cycle times are long, and the shorter time saver cycles don't clean heavy soil well. That's my 2 cents!


Post# 47166 , Reply# 32   10/16/2004 at 19:21 (7,103 days old) by CleanteamofNY ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
My father had a Frigidaire dishwasher and I hated it from day one!!!
Very hard to load, never clean pots and pans well on the top rack!
Screws was coming loose off the door all the time and what broke the camels back was when the heating element burned a hole through the tub while it wash washing dishes!

Here's the proof.....
In my book, Figidaire will never get another dollar out of me unless they bring the 1-18 back!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO CleanteamofNY's LINK


Post# 47300 , Reply# 33   10/18/2004 at 09:19 (7,101 days old) by deeptub (Carbondale, IL)        

deeptub's profile picture
It's cool to have the actual dates for the various KA series. I only had the ads in National Geographic to go by for rough estimates. (When I was 14, I'm sure nobody believed that I was leafing through old National Geographics for the KitchenAid ads.) My parents got their 21-series in July 1988 (from Petropoulos Brothers in Waukegan IL if anyone remembers them) so they were made at least until then. Whirlpool had bought KA by then so its model number is KUDS21MS0. I believe it was the first WhisperQuiet model--fairly noisy by today's standards (noisy, but not loud, if that makes any sense). I remember seeing a 22-series at Petropoulos before they went out of business which was the summer of 1989, so the 21 series must have been made until somewhere in late 88-early 89. The 20 and 21 series were fairly efficient for the day (even compared to some of today's models). The Normal cycle on the 21 series is only 4 fills (prewash/rinse/wash/rinse) and I believe 8.5 gallons total.

T.


Post# 47386 , Reply# 34   10/19/2004 at 08:01 (7,100 days old) by kenmore1978 ()        
plastic vs SS heat conductivity

I hate to say it, but plastic would obviously hold the heat better, plastic is a very poor heat conductor whereas SS would immediately conduct the heat to the outside of the DW. In reality, probably doesn't matter much today since virtually every decent DW is fiberglass insulated.

Post# 47436 , Reply# 35   10/19/2004 at 20:59 (7,100 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Robert, thank you for the video. I finally got to view it at work today. Steve-1-18, the revolution speed of the wash arm was about what I expected given I'd sit with my head against the front panel of a KA and listen to how often that one arm with the jets closest to the door would pass by. My parents were so embarassed when I'd sit in front of a running dishwasher.

Post# 47438 , Reply# 36   10/19/2004 at 21:51 (7,100 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
Bob, I used to do the same thing, but only at home with the KDI-17. I assume you mean that you did it friends/relatives/neighbors as well. :-)

Post# 47621 , Reply# 37   10/22/2004 at 19:41 (7,097 days old) by jmirawm (Barling Arkansas)        
watching and wondering.....

I was watching the video again tonight. I was wondering, when they introduced the hydro-sweep wash arm, if they were able to shorten the cycle times. Since there was double the water spray and about the same rpm's ?

Post# 47968 , Reply# 38   10/27/2004 at 23:15 (7,092 days old) by tlee618 ()        
Thanks Robert!!

Thanks so much Robert for taking the time to make the Kitchen Aid video. I have a new computer and dls server and it is such a pleasure to download things now. I have watched the video several times..what a pleasure to see what is going on inside. Love the light addition as well. I could almost sit down and cry when I think what Kitchen Aid has turned into today. Terry

Post# 47969 , Reply# 39   10/27/2004 at 23:22 (7,092 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Very interesting film clip-I have installed my KDS-18-except for the water input.Need to find a connector that matches the one on the feedline.So far all of the ones in my small plumbers "feild bag" won't fit.I always thought spray arms spun faster than what I saw in the video.Now I know the story.The "new" WP KA machine-died at the appropriate time-the electronics timer or control board blew--Not a storm in sight-tried to run the machine-the only cycle it will do is "rinse"Its now sitting in the corner-will have to take the input connector from it and put it on the "real" KA washer.I"ll have to bring the parts into work where a vise can help out.


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