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Post# 508837   4/2/2011 at 18:00 (4,627 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Next may 1st Whirlpool is going to launch the Adwantage washer and dryer here in Brazil. It's going to be called Brastemp Advantage and we're not sure if it's going to be exactly the same machine available in the U.S., but everything on the press release make us believe it's going to be the same and everybody is quessing the price will be shocking.

What can you tell about it? except by the interesting LCD control panel and beautiful design features, does it have any significant difference if compared to the standard Cabrio washers? I'm guessing it's nothing more than a cabrio in a long dress. Am I right?

I know the price will be enough to buy 3 or 4 standard washers and even if I were the richest guy in the world i'd never pay that price just because the washer opens the lid by itself and has a high tech control panel. No matter how modern it is, it still being a washing machine as I'm not one of those fancy wives that don't know what else to do to spend the husband's money to impress other women.

Post# 508842 , Reply# 1   4/2/2011 at 18:23 (4,627 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
I think it's the only one in their line-up with a heater. All the others just use "more water" on their Allergen cycles but no extra heat. The Vantage has a Sanitary cycle.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK
Post# 508847 , Reply# 2   4/2/2011 at 18:44 (4,627 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
water heater waste of energy in my eyes i would not even use the water heater on this washer since i would program it to only use cold water wash and cold water rinse and use warm water for stain shirts and reg hot water for bedsheets but most of the time it would be program to use cold water only.

Post# 508850 , Reply# 3   4/2/2011 at 19:26 (4,627 days old) by jlbrazil (brazil)        

I'm afraid of how much it'll cost...the "Duet Titanium" set ( Maytag Epic )was $7500+

Post# 508853 , Reply# 4   4/2/2011 at 19:48 (4,627 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

It's obvious this model was created for those high end consumers.
As I said above, there's some kind of buyer that can't get enough. They NEED to show they are "better" because they have more money. That's sad but, if I were a manufacturer, of course I'd do my best to get this kind of consumer too.

Most of them buy the laundry pair today and if whirlpool launch a newer model, costing 2x more next week, they will start hating these machines, dump them and buy the other.... in other words... PROFIT!

Post# 508857 , Reply# 5   4/2/2011 at 19:56 (4,627 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
its sad at this price i would rather buy a refurbish vintage top load washer washer dryer set that would use more water since it would fill to a selected water level in the tub but it would cost lest in money

Post# 508858 , Reply# 6   4/2/2011 at 19:57 (4,627 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Duet Titaium was the best example of that here in Brazil.

It's a very nice machine but it has nothing that compensates the cost up to 3x more that the Frigidaire Affinity. they belong to the same category and in the U.S. they were sold with a very small price difference.

a titanium laundry pair would cost the same as 1/2 car. That's outrageous!

No matter how good the machine is, it's only a machine.

If the pair is sold at 4k dollars in the U.S., That's something around R$7k.

I bet just the advantage washer will cost more than that because the previous high end dryer model (Duet Black/Epicz) costs this.

This is INSANE but i bet Whirlpools executives LOVE this kind of dumb consumer that never think before buying.

Post# 508859 , Reply# 7   4/2/2011 at 19:59 (4,627 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

I bet the advantage pair (washer and dryer) will cost here in brazil something around 9k american dollars or even more.

Post# 508988 , Reply# 8   4/3/2011 at 11:29 (4,626 days old) by gr81nknox ()        
WP vantage

 If it is the same as the "Vantage" sold in the US, then it is a very top of the line Cabrio. I was at Lowes last night buying some 100 watt light bulbs(stocking up before they are banned by year's end) and I took a look at washers. The Vantage is very nice looking, but cost $1999! I did pick up a small brochure on it and some of the specs include; 33 cycles, Quiet wash ultra noise canceling system, NSF Sanitary cycle, cycle logic intelligence, and my favorite a USB port! The color they come in is called Cosmetallic and it looks like a really dark grey. Both the washer and the dryer have really cool LED lighting inside and the LCD touch screen control. Basket size and mechnical aspects appear identical to the 5.2 cu. ft Cabrios. Nice looking machine, scary price tag.

Post# 509011 , Reply# 9   4/3/2011 at 13:16 (4,626 days old) by brastemp (Brazil)        

I was so happy when I heard about it. Our top loaders are all ordinary and with no further options , I believe that the Vantage , even beeing expensive , will be the start of a new era in Brazil. People have the habit to wash clothes in top loaders , and they don't want to change them for a Front Loader. I think that LG will bring it's model like the one wich is sold in the US , and the other brands wich don't have one , will bring the "china models" , after all , we need competition for them to get cheaper.

Post# 509017 , Reply# 10   4/3/2011 at 13:39 (4,626 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Brazil finally reached the HE era...

We can say thats... good. At least the environment will love it.

Eduardo, I don't see any manufacturers bringing "chinese technology" to Brazil, since all the three major brands in Brazil have their own HE top loaders.





Post# 509030 , Reply# 11   4/3/2011 at 15:13 (4,626 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

The idea is simple. HE top loaders are cheaper than Front loaders to be produced.

It's obvious that, at least for the next few years, Whirlpool won't launch other cheaper cabrio models so, if you want to go green, give them lots of profit.

All the manufacturers are following the "agenda" created by themselves to change the market.

In the U.S. it was easy, the government offering bonuses for HE appliaces. It made millions of people run to buy modern HE machines.

Here in Brazil we don't have this kind of bonus so the manufacturer have to wait until the old washers break and the consumers need to buy a new one. Few years ago, we all could notice the "less than poor" quality on all top loaders. Brastemp and Electrolux were great machines (I even designed most of the electrolux models from those years and the rule was "always do your best") and now both of them are "less than crap". Electrolux with faulty vital parts, Brastemp with the ridiculous suspension that makes the machine jump and other faulty parts too and they both say "this is normal"

Now that brazilians are hating the machines, it's time to continue with the second part of the profit plan.

Brastemp (whirlpool) launched Duet, Electrolux launched Affinity. Both of them are much better than the standard crappy top loaders they are selling. Nobody can blaim them because they still offer cheap machines but, if you want to have a machine that is "less worst", you have to pay much more.

It won't be a surprise if suddenly brastemp reduce even more the standard top loader quality and say well, if you want something better, you must buy the advantage.

Electrolux is doing exactly the same. First was the Affinity (ecoturbo), the next models to be launched are the wavetouch, insight and inspire. (and reduce the top loaders portfolio). Then launch the wateraid.

For the consumers, there will be only 3 options: Buy that crappy all plastic 7kg top loader, buy any very expensive front loader or if the consumer insist to have a top loader, pay even more for the HE model.

This could also cause a collapse in Brazil. Brastemp/Whirlpool high end models (Duet/Vantage) are made in the U.S. or Mexico. all the other machines made in Brazil.

Electrolux Ecoturbo/Wavetouch are made in the U.S/mexico. Insight/inspire are made in Europe and the HE Top loader made in Australia.
It means the same thing that happened to the U.S. years ago is going to start happening in Brazil now. THOUSANDS of employees are going to loose their jobs because labor costs are lower in other countries.

Only who worked in a plant know how scary these news are. I'm sure when Brastemp announced the Vantage, it caused panic to thousands of employees. It happened when Elux launched the Ecoturbo and happened again when they announced internally the new front loader families. Everybody at the production lines know that sooner or later, they are all going to loose their jobs at once or they still have their jobs because colleagues from other plants in other countries lost their jobs.

And even worse, it doesn't affect only appliance manufacturers. This is the so called globalization.

Post# 509032 , Reply# 12   4/3/2011 at 15:28 (4,626 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Vantage Pricing

 mrb627's profile picture
I have seen Vantage pricing as low as 1599.00 on some websites. I expect it will continue to go down in price at brick and mortar retailers as well. The could have at least lengthened the guarantee past 1 year.

Malcolm

Post# 509033 , Reply# 13   4/3/2011 at 15:29 (4,626 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
its also a way to protect or water resource

 pierreandreply4's profile picture
with he machines since they ues lest water its also a way to protect or water resource i know for a fact that for me even if i would buy this new washer today or in the next couple or years when my duet washer bites the duts and no longer function i will buy a classic top load washer with agitator and if i have to buy a vintage washer dryer set i will

Post# 509041 , Reply# 14   4/3/2011 at 16:09 (4,626 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

What's wrong with your duet? I never used one but I've heard they are excellent machines. Tell me about it.



Post# 509043 , Reply# 15   4/3/2011 at 16:13 (4,626 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

If I had watched this video before purchasing my Cabrio in Paraguay, it would have saved me hundreds of dollars.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO thomasortega's LINK
Post# 509044 , Reply# 16   4/3/2011 at 16:18 (4,626 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
there is nothing wrong with it just for a fact that when i use the normal casual cycle and have a wash on the war water it tends to had cold water before the first drain spin and its a model from 2004 1 of the first generation of fl whirlpool made here is a picture

Post# 509048 , Reply# 17   4/3/2011 at 16:55 (4,626 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Sorry, I didn't understand the issue about the cold final rinse. Now I'm really curious and enjoying this talk.
EXPLAIN NOW! LOL

Post# 509052 , Reply# 18   4/3/2011 at 17:04 (4,626 days old) by appnut (TX)        
it tends to had cold water before the first drain spin

appnut's profile picture

There is a reason why the machine does that.  As I have said before, that Normal/Casual cycle is the equivalent of the Permanent Press Cycle you really are wanting on your washing machine dial and it drives you nuts because there isn't a Perment Press cycle on your Duet, yet you refuse to acknowledge and accept the reality that the Normal/Casual cycle is the Permanent Press cycle.  and as you know, on any Permanent Press cycle on a Whirlpool product, the cycle includes a cool down phase before the first spin. 
Post# 509057 , Reply# 19   4/3/2011 at 17:27 (4,626 days old) by jlbrazil (brazil)        

MIne LG does that on every single cycle .. even if I choose cold water!

Post# 509124 , Reply# 20   4/4/2011 at 04:07 (4,625 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Oh, now I realized you said >>>first<<<< rinse. I was confusing it with last rinse.

That's a cool down phase for three main reasons.

1) Kill suds: some "intelligent" detergents and oxy bleach react with a temperature change and the foam simply dissapears. It helps rinsing. every single bubble killed before the rinse is significant in a HE machine.

2) Reduce load temperature gradually: It avoids wrinkles.

3) Safety: If the machine is draining in a laundry tub, one could me burned by the hot water suddenly comming out of the drain hose. There should be a standard saying that, otherwise the manufacturers wouldn't make their machines spend a few more drops of water only for the reasons 1 and 2 as those drops count on the efficiency label.

The cool down fill won't spend significant water and can reduce the temperature up to 10 degrees C. It can reduce even more if the tap cold water is colder.

My Affinity does that too always the temperature is above 53C and trips the safety lock (the door won't open even if you unplug the machine) at 56C. I think maybe all FLs do that.

Some older euro front loaders turn off the heating element on the last minutes of the wash or add some cold water or do the both. These routines are efficient to prevent skinburns.



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