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average running costs.
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Post# 519965   5/23/2011 at 13:22 (4,583 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture

Anybody any idea the running cost of a modern. A rated machine that uses say 60litres of water?

Darren


Post# 519967 , Reply# 1   5/23/2011 at 13:25 (4,583 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK)        

We have one of those [awful if you ask me] pay as you go electric meters, and a load of washing normally takes about 5-10p to wash (dependent on temperature) and something nearer to 30 or 40p to dry - that's with our washer which has an A+ label...

 

Probably not much use... but hope it helps

 

Jon xxx


Post# 520008 , Reply# 2   5/23/2011 at 15:29 (4,583 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
It's not as straightforward as it seems...

haxisfan's profile picture
Average cost? What's given by most manufacturers is based on one cycle and one programme only... which is usually the Cotton 60 and uses something in the region of 1kw per load (for a 5-6kg machine).

This might vary greatly depending on the cycle you use. Most of the electricity used by the machine happens during the heating stage and this usually takes 25-30 minutes to bring the water temp from 15 degrees to 60 degrees with a somewhat 2000w immersion heater... hence 2000x25/60= 833w... plus another few hundred watts used my the motor during the whole cycle gets you to a very similar figure as that quoted by manufacturers. The water heater might come on again for a few more minutes at a second stage during the main wash but this would only take a few more minutes (hence a few more watts) thanks to the ability of the outer tubs in modern washers to keep the temperature (once reached) for longer periods.

If you know what washer are you going to use, note down the power of its immersion heater and be ready to calculate once you know the time it's going to be on to reach the desired temperature (if you use a synth cycle the water is usually heated to temperature only once)... then have your electricity tariffs to hand to know exactly how much you're paying for a wash load ;-)

PS: your electricity board might use tiering of multiple rates... you might even be lucky enough to run an economy 7!


Post# 520010 , Reply# 3   5/23/2011 at 15:45 (4,583 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

I remember of you linking modern Indesit machines (so do I ;) )

So I selected a model that uses 60 L of water per wash and did the math for you:

Model "IWE 7168 B" 7 kg wash.

It has a staded consuption of 1,19 kWh of energy for a 60C wash.
At 40C the energy consuption would be some 30% less, so let's say 0,83 kWh.
Cold wash would be 0,25 kWh.


To have the price to run the machine just add up the terms multiplied by utility cost and voil!

With my rates it would be:

1,19 kWh x 0,21 /kWh = 0,25 Euro for the electricity at 60C
0,83 kWh x 0,21 /kWh = 0,18 Euro for the electricity at 40C
0,25 kWh x 0,21 /kWh = 0,05 Euro for the electricity at cold

Detergent cost assuming 20 cents per wash.

Water cost at 2,50 euros per 1000 litres

60 litres x 2,50 / 1000 l = 0,15 Euro per wash

Ammortization over 10 years of the machine at 250 washes per year, with a purchase cost of 330 GBP (379 Euro)

379 Euro / 2500 washes = 0,15 Euro

So, assuming 20% washes at 60C, 60% washes at 40C, 20% washes in cold you have an average cost per wash of 0,17 Euro:


The total average cost per wash of the machine in the end would be

_________________________________________________

0,17 + 0,15 + 0,5 + 0,20 = 0,67 Euro per wash
over the total estimated lifetime of the machine
_________________________________________________






Post# 520011 , Reply# 4   5/23/2011 at 15:48 (4,583 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        
mis-typed!

_________________________________________________

0,17 + 0,15 + 0,15 + 0,20 = 0,67 Euro per wash
over the total estimated lifetime of the machine
_________________________________________________

with the assumptions stated before


Post# 520143 , Reply# 5   5/24/2011 at 08:32 (4,583 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Here depreciation swamps water and soap costs

Here in the SE usa my water (with sewer and system upgrade bond charges etc) costs about 1 cent per gallon. ie 100 US gallons costs 1 US dollar. If one uses zero water; one still gets a base charge per month. the 1 cent (1/100 dollar) per gallon is the incremental charge.

Thus my 1976 FL westy uses 20 to 30 gallons; or 20 to 30 cents

My 2011 LG FL washer uses about 10 to 15 gallons; or 10 to 15 cents.

The power consumption of the 1976 machine is 0.22 KWHR; = 3.3 cents @0.15 $/KWHR

The power consumption of the 2010 machine is 0.11 KWHR; = 1.7 cents @0.15 $/KWHR
(power consumption without the internal heater on)

The water here is super soft; thus very little soap/detergent is required. A giant jug that is marked 84 Loads that I buy only on fire sale might be only 5 dollars and last twice the number of loads. ie per wash cost thus is 500 cents/168 loads or about 3 cents. In practice; I consider the soap cost to be nil. My total cost in soap per year is less than 10 dollars; more like 5 bucks.

Here the HIGHEST cost really is the depreciation. If the new 2010 LG cost me 642 with tax ; I have mentally accepted it will die in 5 years and be worthless. With 2.5 loads washed per week; 5 years is = 2.5 *52.2 * 5 = 652 cycles. Thus each wash cycle costs about 1 dollar. If I am lucky and it dies in 10 years; the cost per cycle is one half ie 50 cents.


Post# 520144 , Reply# 6   5/24/2011 at 08:37 (4,583 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

How long the new 2011 LG will work before a major failure is a total crap shoot. I only wash about 2.5 times a week; thus it might last 15 years too. Or I might have one with a poorly fitting seal due to bad luck and the bearings go in 3 years. Here we have lightning issues; many times TV's, radios, modems, phones die just due to power surges. One has surge protectors and stuff still gets zapped. This is a wild card issue

Post# 520154 , Reply# 7   5/24/2011 at 09:56 (4,583 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

The math is all different on this side of the Atlantic, because our machines have hot and cold water fill.

I have a gas water heater (storage tank model, not a tankless unit) with a pilot light, which continuously burns a small amount of gas. The heater is seven years old. Newer models by law have electronic ignition and no pilot light. My FL washer (Frig 2140) does not have an internal heater. Even when a FL here does have a heater, it activates only when the user selects a water temperature hotter than the hot water line temperature. (this also speeds wash times since there is no time used to heat the water).

During the warmer months, when I don't heat the house, the monthly gas bill is $12, of which $5 is the fixed cost (fee for operating the gas company's system, even if you use zero gas). So I consume $7 worth of gas per month, for heating water (shower, washer, dishwasher), drying clothes in the gas dryer, and cooking on a gas range (gas oven plus gas cooktop). I don't know what fraction of my hot water is used by the washer and dryer, but at most it would be perhaps $3-4/month.

I don't know my washer and dryer's power consumption. However, my non-winter electric bill typically is $35 of which $10 is "fixed cost" to operate the electric system and $25 is actual power consumed. I typically use 240-280 KWH/month and pay about $0.12/KWH. This is all on the lowest "price tier" of usage. They calculate how much you need based on your climate, and they establish four price tiers based on usage. I never exceed the tier one limits and thus enjoy the lowest costs. Tier 2 is a few cents/KWH higher, but tier three and tier four are drastically higher.


Post# 520261 , Reply# 8   5/24/2011 at 20:05 (4,582 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
GAS WATER HEATERS

combo52's profile picture

Jim I have not seen gas storage type water heaters with electric ignition, the burning pilot actually helps keep the water hot. I know that some direct vent models have electric ignition but I drought it is required.


Post# 520345 , Reply# 9   5/25/2011 at 09:40 (4,582 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

It may be a California requirement, but new heaters here appear to have a pezio-type ignition. The price went up by several hundred dollars a few years ago and the rise was blamed on new emissions and ignition requirements. The lowest price you'll see in say Lowe's for a 40 gallon unit is around $500 now.

Historically, people around here have regarded gas water heaters as more or less disposable entities, which you'd have to replace every 5-7 years (but which cost <$300). Now that the cost is $500-800, with lower end units carrying only a 5-6 year warranty, I am starting to regard them as something to maintain carefully in order to prolong its life. My neighbors recently replaced their heater (40 gallon storage heater), using a professional plumber, and the cost was over $1100 with labor. Heater is easily accessible in the garage, the labor was not a premium charge for a hard to access location. Of course, they could have saved money going to Lowe's and using their install service, but they are elderly and find it easier to pay a professional to do it (there are also some guarantees re: the installation that you get with a professional plumber.

On my end, my heater dates from March 2003. I drain and flush the heater twice a year. Every two years, I replace the anode rod. I've been told that if this level of maintenance is performed, the unit can last 20-30 years. I'm not sure I would have bothered to do it to prolong the life of a $300 unit, but now that replacement costs can exceed $1000, you can bet that I'll do the recommended maintenance.

One of the limitations for thoroughly draining a tank is that the valve or faucet at the bottom of the tank has a small opening, too small for larger sediment pieces to flow out. I replaced the valve with a 3/4" brass valve, and the first time I did this, out came so much sediment that it looked like someone dumped a load of aquarium gravel all over my driveway. That's what had accumulated over eight years and was too bulky to exit via the valve.


Post# 520445 , Reply# 10   5/25/2011 at 18:36 (4,581 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Gas pilot gas burned per month.

Here is so interesting info. My business only has a gas heater with two pilots as its only natural gas appliances in use now. My mid April to mid May 2011 gas bill was 24.25 bucks. The base charge is 12 bucks for a commercial building; the added extra is 13 CCF of gas @0.69770= 9.07 dollars. Then the Katrina storm damage rider is 0.75; the muncipal franchise tax is 0.84; the state sale tax is 1.59.

Normally I turn off the two manual pilots once it is springtime; but forgot. I sprayed all the gas connections and found no gas leaks/bubbles. Once we had so joints by the meter leak a tad eons ago.

This I did a google search for the gas consumed by a pilot; and found a Pittsburg gas grill's number of 7 CCF per month. ie 700 cubic feet.

Tonight I turned off the two pilots

13 CCF divided by 2 is 6.5 CCF; darn close to 7!

I am sort of amused how close their estimate is!


ie :

"How much does it cost to have the fireplace logs or heater pilot light on?

A pilot light will burn approximately 1,000 BTUs per hour (720,000 BTUs per month). 100 cu. ft. of gas (1 CCF) = 102,700 BTUs therefore the pilot uses 7.01 CCFs per month Current cost per CCF of natural gas = $1.10* therefore the cost is about one penny per hour or $7.71 per month"


CLICK HERE TO GO TO 3beltwesty's LINK


Post# 520547 , Reply# 11   5/26/2011 at 05:33 (4,581 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        

With 2 gas fireplaces I have figured with our gas rates it costs about $10.00 per month per pilot light. When these are shut off for the summer we consume maybe 1 or 2 therms per month since it is only the gas dryer running,so my bill is basic charges for the month.
Jon


Post# 520569 , Reply# 12   5/26/2011 at 07:18 (4,581 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Costs

chestermikeuk's profile picture

Hi Darran, is it for your new home??  best way of finding out is if you leccy has one of those smart meter options, I have British Gas for the electric (Best Deal Plan) and use a smart meter with a monthly plan, its great to see what you use and and you pay monthly only for WHAT YOU USE...

 

The best thing for washer use is if its used to capacity, I kow you had the large LG but would you need one so big now etc??

 

Running costs for the fagor washer dryer on a 60d wash 3kg cottons load worked out at 18p wash and 37p dry (1200rpm)

 

Does it have a washer already in??

 

cheers, Mike


Post# 520673 , Reply# 13   5/26/2011 at 18:02 (4,580 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Hey mike!

How ya doin? Ahh thanks for the insight there. My flat doesn't have a machine yet. I'd toyed with the idea of sticking my 1991 zanussi turbodry washerdryer in but its 3 flights of stairs and obviously alot more costly than if I buy something more current. I've become accustom to larger loads. When I have my boys I soon rack up a big load of washing! So I'm contemplating leaving my indesit with my folks and seeing if my dad will buy me or help me toward a Washerdryer as there isn't the room for separates.

I won't rely on it for heavy use I will do what I do now which is stick things on airers and on the line when possible and then finish them off in the dryer.

Darren


Post# 520674 , Reply# 14   5/26/2011 at 18:06 (4,580 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
stick things on airers and on the line when possible and the

ozzie908's profile picture
Good evening Darren Guess who is still awake ??

Now what I want to know is ...Where will you put the airers your on about and where is the washing line?????

Did you finish painting?

Austin..xx


Post# 520682 , Reply# 15   5/26/2011 at 19:07 (4,580 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Hey austin!

Makes 2 of us love! Yea got the painting finished ta!

Lol I was talkin about currently...but I do have an airer or 2 I will stick around the flat lol

D x


Post# 520838 , Reply# 16   5/27/2011 at 18:04 (4,579 days old) by aegokocarat (United Kingdom)        

baumatic do a huge 10kg lg esque washer dryer which is also avalible as a washer only version. i belive it is made in Koria

Post# 520845 , Reply# 17   5/27/2011 at 18:48 (4,579 days old) by Fl1012 ()        
Why Not Take the Indesit......

Im thinking why not take the Indesit to the flat & then if at all possible just have a White Knight compact dryer (like the one your ex has *wink wink*) in a cupboard that you can wheel out to near a window when you need it.

It's not ideal but if youre paying all the bills yourself you won't wanna be using a dryer much anyway, and the 3kg capacity of the White Knight is probably not alot less than what you can realisticly dry in a washer dryer anyway.

I find putting anything more than a pair of jeans and a couple of shirts in the 4 washer dryers i've tried results in everything being creased to hell. That amount of washing in a small dryer would result in far less creasing & would probably be quicker to dry too.

Liam.


Post# 520947 , Reply# 18   5/28/2011 at 04:08 (4,579 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Hey Liam,

I had considered that option but there is really nowhere for it to live. If i put it on the surface above it would encroach on my draining board.

I'm considering the options but I may have to take my oldschool zanussi turbodry or bosch wff2000. I may even put that in mums house and take my indesit as im rather fond of the indesit.

My dad has sold the zanussi essential rather too promptly then we both would have had a machine now! grrr!

Darren


Post# 520969 , Reply# 19   5/28/2011 at 07:20 (4,579 days old) by Fl1012 ()        
Is there.....

....an airing cupboard or a cupboard where the water heater lives where you could store the dryer when it's not being used? Then just pull it out to use?

It seems a shame to buy another machines when you have several at your disposal.

That was abit of luck selling the Essential. I take it Electrolux didn't reply to your email?

If it were me i'd probably take the Indesit to the flat & leave the Bosch WFF2000 with the Parents. I think with the washing created by the boys it'd be quite a heavy workload for an older machine like the Zanussi Turbodry & Bosch WFF2000 & therefore leaving them for the lighter use at your parents house & subjecting the less valuable Indesit machine (in terms of your collection) to the heavy use makes most sence. It also has the biggest drum so you won't have it on all day like with the smaller machines.

Is most of your collection gonna be in your Parents new garage now that they've moved, or is it still at your Ex's? Personally i'd buy her a Beko to keep her quiet & take the LG - it means more to you than it does to her i'm sure ;-)

Liam


Post# 520971 , Reply# 20   5/28/2011 at 07:27 (4,579 days old) by Fl1012 ()        
Washer Dryers

Having looked on Currys website the selection of washer dryers seems abit poor.

Most of the reasonable priced ones are Hotpoint or Indesit. Whilst it's open for debate as to how good/bad their washers are, i wouldn't hold out much hope for decent length of service from any cheaper modern machine that's doing alot of washing and then having to dry alot of it too.

Plus if the machine is drying a load then you can't put the next one into wash. Therefore i really would try to just have a washer & compact dryer wherever possible, even if it means putting the dryer somewhere obvious & covering it over with a throw & a vase of flowers or something! lol

Liam


Post# 521232 , Reply# 21   5/29/2011 at 07:42 (4,578 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Hi Liam

I've accepted that i'm not going to get the LG for the hassle involved.

i've stuck the turbodry in for now to tide me over but my flat is compact. I'm gonna see what I can do.

I may even save for an lg 9/6kg Washerdryer. It came out well in the which review as did every electrolux made washerdryer!

Yea Electrolux never came back to me on that one.

My collection is still in my exe's garage. Not that it is much of a collection anymore. A Bosch WFF2000 & A knackered Zanussi WDT1085.

Modern machines are more my bag these days.

I've attached a pic of the zan. Its lookin abit worn and abit rusty but it still works fine. The dryer works very well infact. But the small capacity and slow spin are winding me up already.

Darren


Post# 521266 , Reply# 22   5/29/2011 at 11:30 (4,578 days old) by aegokocarat (United Kingdom)        

your zanussi turbo dry isnt the only thing that looks worn out, i do too! ive caught a cold and the flu

Post# 521318 , Reply# 23   5/29/2011 at 16:55 (4,577 days old) by Fl1012 ()        
Electrolux

Hi Darren

Hope your'e settling into the new pad. It's a good feelin' having ur own place after living at home.

Very dissapointed in Electrolux for not replying to your email. Not the sortof customer service you expect from a company of their size, though if the quality of the products i saw in Currys on Friday is anything to go by, we better get used to it. NOT impressive!

The WDT doesn't actually look out of place in your kitchen, the light grey facia is quite timeless & only the small bits of rust are a major giveaway to its age. A gentle rub down with some sand paper on the effected area might tidy it up without having to go to town on paint.

I probably wouldn't keep it in there for long, purely because i think it's worth keeping long-term & the amount of laundry it'll need to do will probably tire it out. However for now it looks good.

I do stick by my thoughts regarding having the Indesit & then using a compact dryer as a coffee table by the side of the sofa, with a throw over it to disguise it when not in use! This would also give you the opportunity to pick a new machine for your Mum, which you'd enjoy i'm sure ;-)

Alternatively maybe look out for a more modern second hand washer-dryer. A Jetsystem Turbodry from the XC era would answer your fast spin & large(ish) capacity prayers, yet are old enough to actually be repaired if things like bearings wear out.

I also saw this on eBay which may be of interest, though i dunno if it's abit far and abit new (and therefore not too well made)?


Liam


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Fl1012's LINK on eBay



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