Thread Number: 35608
New addition to the family: Westinghouse Commodore
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Post# 531328   7/18/2011 at 08:08 (4,690 days old) by kevin313 (Detroit, Michigan)        

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I must be out of my mind, but I dragged home a 1952 (I'm pretty sure) Westinghouse Commodore stove yesterday. Double ovens and a deep well, I just couldn't resist. Of the many stoves I've schlepped around, this is by far one of the heaviest. I got my workout moving it!





Post# 531329 , Reply# 1   7/18/2011 at 08:08 (4,690 days old) by kevin313 (Detroit, Michigan)        

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the ovens...

Post# 531345 , Reply# 2   7/18/2011 at 10:02 (4,690 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Congratulations!

Get a load of those fancy fronts on the oven racks. You are going to love the color rings around the lights!

Post# 531370 , Reply# 3   7/18/2011 at 11:45 (4,690 days old) by appliguy (Oakton Va.)        
Hey Kevin make sure you check your email

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I sent you a scan of my 1951 Westinghouse Kitchen and Laundry Catalog that I thought you might enjoy  PAT COFFEY


Post# 531375 , Reply# 4   7/18/2011 at 12:05 (4,690 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        
wasn't this the same range...

twintubdexter's profile picture
...or similar...that brown crust is a sure sign of even baking



Post# 531377 , Reply# 5   7/18/2011 at 12:34 (4,690 days old) by Westie2 ()        

Kevin this is all you need to finish out the Lucy set witht he stove.




Post# 531378 , Reply# 6   7/18/2011 at 12:38 (4,690 days old) by Westie2 ()        

This stove is just like what my grandmother (mothers mother) had and she had most of her household things as Westinghouse. She had this stove that she bought the same time as she did her slant front washer. I know she had the coffee pot and a waffle maker. She also had a couple of the Westinghouse fans. She did have an old Sunbeam mixer and her vacuum was a canister Bee Vac that looked like a rocket.

Post# 531392 , Reply# 7   7/18/2011 at 13:57 (4,690 days old) by luxflairguy (Wilmington NC)        
Westinghouse range!

Hey Pat! How about sharing that scan with the rest of us!! 50's Westinghouse is a "blast from the past!"

Post# 531396 , Reply# 8   7/18/2011 at 14:18 (4,690 days old) by westingman123 ()        

Ahhh, Kevin, Westinghouse at it's finest. The model you have is a Commander, I think, I'll have to look to be sure. I have nearly the same range, they could be sisters! You will LOVE the way those ovens bake, I've never had a better, more even-baking oven.

I grew up with the model you have, with the single oven and warming drawer. Should you ever decide to part with that beauty, please keep me in mind. But I rather suspect you'll fall in love.

All you need now is the matching roaster, for those large things that just won't fit in your oven! Enjoy!

Keith


Post# 531398 , Reply# 9   7/18/2011 at 14:18 (4,690 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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I'd estimate the steel gauge in those old Westys heavier than what's used in car bodies today. I'd also estimate it's a shade earlier than 1952. Lucy's was 1951 and more angular/less rounded. We had one just like it. Somehow mom turned the well burner on empty and melted the pan. Sounds more like something I'd do, but at that age I couldn't reach the knobs.

Post# 531406 , Reply# 10   7/18/2011 at 14:37 (4,690 days old) by mixfinder ()        
How Many in the Stable

Kevin, how many ranges do you have and which among them are your favorites for cooking?


Post# 531413 , Reply# 11   7/18/2011 at 15:43 (4,690 days old) by kevin313 (Detroit, Michigan)        

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Pat Coffey : THANK YOU for the scan of the Westinghouse product book!

The oven manual that was with the stove had a 1952 copyright on it - so I kind of figured that for the year of manufacture.

Kelly -
Here are the stoves I have (that I can recall):
1952 Norge
1952 Westinghouse
1952 Hotpoint Automatic
1953 Frigidaire Imperial
1954 Frigidaire Imperial 70
1955 Kelvinator
1956 Frigidaire (30" w/French doors)
1958 GE
1961 Westinghouse
1972 Crown
2000 Frigidaire

Some of them have never been used, as I don't have a way to hook them all up. I'm going to start a rotation where I switch them out every six months or so.


Post# 531416 , Reply# 12   7/18/2011 at 15:51 (4,690 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Range Buffet

Many of the older ranges were designed for heavier oven use with baking and roasting and did a really fine job.  I am a solid Frigidaire fan but don't like controls on the front of the range.  I also felt Hotpoint and GE of the same era had some advantages in speed and evenness of oven browning.  I have never used a Norge or early Westinghouse but I truly feel the Westinghouse appliances of the 60's and 70's were excellent and reliable.  I have used some 50's Kelvinator and Leonard ranges and I'll pass on those.  Do you have space for a 40 inch range in the kitchen in Detroit and what are using now?  Since you have a GE and Hotpoint range at the Lake does that indicate you prefer them?  I love to talk appliance porn and details so feed me up with your thoughts.


Post# 531430 , Reply# 13   7/18/2011 at 16:55 (4,689 days old) by kevin313 (Detroit, Michigan)        

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The GE and Hotpoint at the cottage are there by circumstance. When the compulsion came over me to start rescuing all these old stoves, those were the first two that I came across. One was $10 at a yard sale and the other was given to me. I actually built my kitchen shed at the cottage as a place to put and use the old Hotpoint (an idea I wish I had long before - it sure is nice on the hot summer days to have the stove outside the house!). They both do a very good job. All the burners work properly and the GE has one speed Calrod burner (right front) that heats water almost instantly - it really works great.

I grew up with electric stoves and learned how to cook on them. I can do fine with a gas range, but it always takes some getting used to. I do a lot of cooking for an old Polish church in Detroit and cook on a big SouthBend 8-burner, double oven with a griddle range. It is gas, of course, and I can cook on it without any trouble. That said, I take a real comfort in an electric range - I guess it's just what I'm used to. It's a bummer when the power goes out, however!!

My mom and grandmother both had Frigidaire ranges (although my mom's first stove was a '55 Norge). My daily driver at home is a Frigidaire glass-top (purchased new in 2000) and it has never let me down. It bakes fairly evenly and maintains tempurature beautifully. I'm still not sure how I feel about the glass top, but it is easy to clean and serves as extra counter space when I'm not using it.

So, do you prefer your controls on the back dash rather than in front? Interesting. I never thought much about it, but I always thought they moved the controls so kids wouldn't set the house on fire. I always thought that gas stoves would be better to have the knobs on the front, so when you turned a burner on you wouldn't burn your arm or set your shirt a blazin'....that polyester can go up like a matchstick ;-)

The thing I like about the older Frigidaires is the wide radiantube elements. I think they provide more surface-to-surface contact and so maybe they would transfer the heat better and be more efficient. This Westinghouse I picked up over the weekend also has wider coils - not as wide as the Frigidaire, but wider than GE. They are Corax units.

My Detroit kitchen doesn't have room for a 40, only a 30. One of these stoves is a 38 (that may be the Norge). For this reason, I tried to limit myself to only picking up 30's, but alas, I'm a sucker for a pretty face.


Post# 531436 , Reply# 14   7/18/2011 at 17:24 (4,689 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
55 NORGE!

Some of the new guys have never seen this monster before, 41 inches!!

Post# 531438 , Reply# 15   7/18/2011 at 17:26 (4,689 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
2 ovens

That bake as good as anything I have ever seen.

Post# 531439 , Reply# 16   7/18/2011 at 17:27 (4,689 days old) by appliguy (Oakton Va.)        
The oven manual that was with the stove had a 1952 copyright

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Well  Kevin if that is what the manual copyright said then you were right....oh and did you notice the 1951 version of your stove only had one oven.........I am glad you liked the rest of the manual I could not resist sharing it with you so you could see what you would need to have a complete Lucy Ricardo Westinghouse Ktichen..... PAT COFFEY


Post# 531440 , Reply# 17   7/18/2011 at 17:27 (4,689 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Plug In..

Griddle!

Post# 531475 , Reply# 18   7/18/2011 at 19:09 (4,689 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Wide One

I too like the wide and even heat of the Frigidaire burner.  It can blast away for hours with large kettles, pressure canner or simmer the most delicate sauce and never warp, burn through or even scorch the porcelain.  I like GE burners until they introduced infinite heat and after a few years they seems to be all or none while the fixed heat burners were always reliably the same.  I would rather not cook than use gas and like the convenience of the heat value always being the same at each setting on an electric.  I'm not so into playing twister bending over to watch the flame, get it adjusted just right and then have a draft knock it out.  Moreover gas is much slower and if turned too high ruins the handles and exterior of the pans to say nothing of my hands when I pick up a pot.  Even though I am cooking vintage I have never met a smooth top I didn't like.  They are a breeze to keep clean and provide steady and even heat.  Much of what I do is baking so the oven is the single most important factor in any range and it must have mixed heat from above and below while baking.  Any range that says preheat on the selctor dial is going to bake from the bottom only after switched to bake.  Ge bakes like a dream but borwns more than Frigidaire.  My experience has been that Frigidaire outweighs GE and has more insulation thus cycling less often producing evenly baked foods that are not over browned.  For baking cakes nothing in the world is better than a vintage Frigidaire.  No excess brown to trim before decorating for wedding cakes.


Post# 531482 , Reply# 19   7/18/2011 at 20:07 (4,689 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
One Secret...

To that Frigidaire, and most Westinghouses, is the seal around the door! It makes a big difference, that Frigidaire is beautiful!!

Post# 531485 , Reply# 20   7/18/2011 at 20:11 (4,689 days old) by kevin313 (Detroit, Michigan)        

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Hans,
That Norge is a work of art!


Post# 531501 , Reply# 21   7/18/2011 at 21:37 (4,689 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Griddled in the Middle

Hans, my grandma had a Kenmore double oven range with a griddle in the middle that she got in 1955.  The two ranges look so much alike I wonder if Norge made the 40 ranges for Kenmore at that time.  Do you miss not having it in the kitchen?  I often wonder how you decide which one you like and which one to use when you have so many.

I am blessed to have the NIB Whirlpool convection Microwave which Greg gave me this spring.  I use it daily and it's 1000 watts make short work of microwaving, the convection oven is capacious holding a 9X13 and bigger and has plenty of height to accomodate a tube pan which convection/mix makes short work of.  Its nice to have a second timer so I can time both ovens on the Frigadaire and not have to guess or remember.  Oh my God are we not the luckiest men on earth!


Post# 531523 , Reply# 22   7/18/2011 at 23:28 (4,689 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
Well it couldn't very well be copyrighted 1952 in 1949, gotta run with that. I'm also not reckoning with variations between models of the same year, the Lucy one is the only one I know.

Post# 531627 , Reply# 23   7/19/2011 at 15:21 (4,689 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Ranges!

peteski50's profile picture
Kevin,
Thanks for posting - that is a beautiful range. You have inspired me to start a new range thread. I would like to see the 1972 crown.
Thanks,
Peter


Post# 531633 , Reply# 24   7/19/2011 at 15:43 (4,689 days old) by kevin313 (Detroit, Michigan)        

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Peter,
Here's a photo of the Crown (sorry it's a little blurry):


Post# 531636 , Reply# 25   7/19/2011 at 15:45 (4,689 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Crown!

peteski50's profile picture
Kevin
Thanks for posting the one we had from 1974 had the broiler above also coutinous cleaning.


Post# 531640 , Reply# 26   7/19/2011 at 15:59 (4,688 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

My mom loved to bake, and her '49 Westy turned things out flawlessly.

 

Attached is a picture of it in its new home at Greg's in Sparta, GA.  From the looks of things, there's something simmering in the deep well pot.


Post# 531814 , Reply# 27   7/20/2011 at 13:51 (4,688 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

That is the 1949 WH range that neighbors across the street had and when I baby sat for them, I loved to watch the elements heat up on High and then watch the outer ring cool on Medium High. Am I remembering that right? It was the very early 60s when I did that. I still have one Westinghouse range with those elements. They are not speedy, but are still faster than gas. I found one like it, but with double ovens, in the basement at an estate sale, but it was not priced and the people running the sale acted like horses asses when I asked if I could buy it.

Post# 531819 , Reply# 28   7/20/2011 at 14:31 (4,688 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)        
Kevin

HI Kevin, thanks for all of those yummy dishes you make. Have you ever cooked on a coal burning cookstove before? I had a Copper Clad until last year and used it in the winter time. Sure did keep the kitchen warm. I have a 1935 gas Detroit Jewel now in its place and it does a great job.
You know anything about Detroit Jewel? Happy baking. Gary


Post# 531822 , Reply# 29   7/20/2011 at 14:40 (4,688 days old) by kevin313 (Detroit, Michigan)        
Gary...

kevin313's profile picture
I have never cooked on a coal or wood burning stove before. I'm sure it must be a trick to figure out how to regulate the tempuratures, but people figured it out somehow.

I don't know much about Detroit Jewel but I saw a lot of them growing up and there are still quite a few here in the area. Believe it or not, before becomming the automotive capital of the world, Detroit was actually the stove capital in the late 1800's and early 1900's. There were more than a dozen stove manufacturers here in Detroit, and Detroit Jewel was a product of one of them (it might have been Michigan Stove Works). Sounds like yours is still going strong!!


Post# 531906 , Reply# 30   7/20/2011 at 20:49 (4,687 days old) by xraytech (Rural southwest Pennsylvania )        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 531915 , Reply# 31   7/20/2011 at 21:53 (4,687 days old) by henry200 ()        
Kevin...

There's a knack to cooking with coal or wood but once you get the hang of it, it makes perfect sense and is quite nice.  Temperature control is largely a matter of proximity to the firebox and taking advantage of direct or indirect heat.  My grandmother switched to an electric stove when the farm was connected to power in the 40's, but she kept the wood cookstove for backup.  That's what my mother learned to cook on, and heat the irons on come laundry day!

 

There's also the principle of stored heat in heavy cast iron stoves.  I have friends in the UK who lived for a time in an 18th century row house which was heated by burning coal in the fireplace in each room.  They had a modern gas stove in the kitchen but used a coal-fired Rayburn cooker in the winter which doubled as the heat source on that level of the house.  After burning a hot fire in it for a couple hours, enough heat was stored in the heavy castings to do most of the cooking for the day.  The left side of the top (right over the fire chamber) was for boiling and the right side for simmering, and there were two ovens...one hot and another for slow-cooking or warming.    They made the most wonderful oatmeal (porridge!) I had ever tasted.  Before bed the pot of oats with milk and butter were put in the "slow" oven and in the morning it had turned into the most heavenly, creamy concoction imaginable!  Roasts cooked in the "hot" oven were falling-off-the-bone tender, with a crust like it had been cooked on a barbeque grill.

 

If I had about $15,000 burning a hole in my pocket I would get a modern gas-powered Aga so I could cook like that.  NOT in the summer though.  That constant heat in the room would be unbearable!

 

Black


Post# 531929 , Reply# 32   7/21/2011 at 00:00 (4,687 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)        
Cooking with coal

Yes guys there is a knack with cooking with coal. My Copper Clad had a sandwich of copper between the layers of cast iron for even heat distribution. Two lids were over the firebox and the other two farther away from the fire, there was also a flat gridle type of cooking space too. You regulate from full boil to simmer by how close to the fire you have your pans etc.
The oven was not vented so you couldn't really tell if anything was buring in there until you opened the door.

I can type more later if any of you would like to know how to start a fire in one of those stoves and keep it going?

I will say this, most movies and TV programs that are set in the 19th. early 20th centurys have it all wrong. How many times do you see the cookstove placed right
against a wall? If there is a combustible wall that it is next to, a big fire and no more house! Against a brick chimney would be ok.
I had mine 2 feet from the wall and the stove pipe went up and over to the left to the chimmney. I loved going outside in the winter to see the chimney, 3 stories up, belching out black smoke. Have fun. Gary


Post# 531952 , Reply# 33   7/21/2011 at 06:56 (4,687 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Kenmore ranges...

As far as I know a subsiduary of Roper Co made all the Kenmore ranges, the griddle on the Norge is very similar, it has big flat prongs and plugs in just like an oven element.

Post# 532162 , Reply# 34   7/22/2011 at 11:03 (4,686 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
ELECTRIC RANGES

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Thanks for all the good insight and cooking tips Hans, Kelly, and Kevin about using your electric ranges. I have found over the years that my customers that have been around awhile and are good cooks and have had both gas and electric ranges almost always come down on the side of cooking Electrically. The only real exception are the folks that have no mechanical sense of how things work, but these same people are usually not great bakers.

 

I consider the invention of the modern electric range to be one of the top 100 inventions of the last 100 years. It seems that almost everyday I am using a customers range to boil water to speed defrost broken refrigerators and the electric ones are just faster and they don't make the kitchen hot and smelly. I had to do one on Wednesday, two gas burners blazing trying to boil water in a condo kitchen with the A/C off and no effective exhaust fan. It was HOT but when you are getting paid good money you can put up with things that I would never do in my home.

 

I never fail to enjoy cooking on the 11 different burners in my kitchen and if you count the interchangeable cartridges for my Jenn-Air cook-top I have more than 20 different type burners to chose from european cast iron to induction but its hard to beat the sealed rod Calrod type elements. But no matter how you cut it we are a bunch of lucky guys and girls.

 

 


Post# 532256 , Reply# 35   7/22/2011 at 20:03 (4,685 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
I agree..

Although I do like a gas oven, I dont want one in summer, and I never want to fool with the top burners again!

Post# 532262 , Reply# 36   7/22/2011 at 20:08 (4,685 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Wood Stove...

When I was a kid, we would go visit cousins in Catawba NC, they had a big old Home Comfort in their kitchen, it always amazed me that Lil could bake a much better cake in that thing than she ever could in her electric stove, in fact, she never baked a cake in the electric as far as I know, that gauge would never vary, and once in a while she would lift a lid and add wood!

Post# 532298 , Reply# 37   7/22/2011 at 23:27 (4,685 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Uh

 

I happen to be a good-to-very-good cook, and I have used both gas and electric ranges.  I am also a very good baker.  I have posted more than a few of my recipes here......

 

My experience is that great food can come from gas ranges as well as electric ones.

 

 

I have a gay male friend, who when he had some of the cookies from the first batch of cookies I baked in my new Whirlpool gas range's oven said, and this IS an exact quote; "I love your new oven."  This man has eaten a lot of my baking over the four years I have known him.  He is also a good cook himself.

 

 

I will, and do stipulate that gas cooktop cooking does release more heat into the area, but electric cooking (except, of course, for microwaving) also releases heat into the area.  Less, perhaps, but still some.

 

 

As for cleaning.......yes, a gas cooktop can be a challenge to clean.  As can a coil top electric.  Smooth tops?  I have used them, and to keep them looking good, one needs to be almost obsessive about cleaning.

 

 

Let's please have some balance.

 

 

The first two ranges I ever cooked on were gas.  My parents, excellent cooks, cooked very good meals with gas.  I cooked on electrics from 1996 to 2011. I think I have sufficient experience with both.  The two worst I have ever used were a pushbutton GE, and the electric 80s Tappan in this apartment.  Admittedly, they were both heavily used apartment ranges when I got to them.

 

 

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

(edited for clarity)




This post was last edited 07/23/2011 at 01:48
Post# 532300 , Reply# 38   7/22/2011 at 23:53 (4,685 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
1949 Westinghouse

rp2813's profile picture

Tom, you are remembering correctly.  The outer coil stops glowing when switched to Med-Hi.  Everything stops glowing when set to Med or lower.  Even during that range's last days in this house before it got shipped off to Greg, I'd have races with the two small Corox elements to see which one got to full blown red glowing coils the fastest.   I knew the outcome, because I put the fastest and strongest appearing burner at right front, which was the most often used unless a bigger pot or pan required using the 8" burner.

 

The deep well coil (the curly open type inside a clay plate) had issues for a long time, but still worked.  Greg managed to get a guy out to fix it and advised that it can now boil water almost as fast as the Corox burners do.

 

Ralph


Post# 532323 , Reply# 39   7/23/2011 at 05:45 (4,685 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Monarch Ranges...

Had open coil units till the late 40s!! and 3 heat switches!! but they were fast heating, My Norge has a speed heat unit on the left front,and it is by far the fastest heating unit ive ever seen, ...Lawrence, you are right, most Chefs do use gas, My problem with it was I had window AC then and I could not simmer anything because the drafts would blow out the burners!But I still say, the gas oven to my mind , bakes best.

Post# 532348 , Reply# 40   7/23/2011 at 09:24 (4,685 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
AND ...

John, you are also right, electric is much cleaner, but I think the main thing is, its what you get used to, if you grew up with gas, then, usually, thats what you like, I grew up in a house where my Mother and Grandmother were absolutely terrified of the thought of gas, they thought it was an explosion waiting to happen, I have had both, and have no trouble cooking on either, except for the adjustments on the gas ranges ive had being super sensitive.But I went back to electric.All the way around, especially in summer, it works better for me.

Post# 532364 , Reply# 41   7/23/2011 at 11:25 (4,685 days old) by henry200 ()        
Sounds like the gas vs electric question is a matter of natu

I grew up cooking with an electric range but have used gas at times in subsequent years.  I've had success with both and my share of cooking failures with both as well.  The failures were more a matter of the quality/reliability of the stove than the fuel.  There are some differences in how one cooks on either gas or electric but a good cook adapts to what's available and makes the best of it. 

 

During combustion, natural gas releases a lot of water vapor and this "moist heat" can be advantageous for certain kinds of baking such as bread.  Dry, radiant electric heat has an advantage for some other types of baked goods.  Without adequate ventilation cooking with gas can quickly deplete the oxygen in a room and, particularly if the burners are not carefully regulated, dangerous levels of carbon monoxide can build up.

 

A good electric surface unit will boil water rapidly and provide a very gentle simmer.  Very high btu gas burners on some modern ranges will heat water almost as quickly.  By using a heavy steel or cast iron heat-diffusing disk over the flame (such as those provided with vintage O&M ranges) or on a stove equipped with a special smaller burner one can achieve a slow simmer without fear of scorching on gas as well.



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