Thread Number: 35865
miele w3033 from 120 to 240 volts
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Post# 534824   8/3/2011 at 17:20 (4,499 days old) by italmex (milano)        

Hello, anyone knows how to change the washer from 120 to 240 volts. I know it is possible but i don't know how thanks.

Post# 534848 , Reply# 1   8/3/2011 at 20:21 (4,499 days old) by vacfanatic ()        

I don't know how you would do that on the W3033. I own one and it's all built for american 120V - there is a stepup transformer inside it that converts the 120 to 240. Some of the components run off 120, some 240 inside this machine.

Post# 534849 , Reply# 2   8/3/2011 at 20:22 (4,499 days old) by vacfanatic ()        

Post# 534850 , Reply# 3   8/3/2011 at 20:28 (4,499 days old) by vacfanatic ()        

Also note that the programming in the W3033 as shown in my video link only goes to 70C, and the W3033 only has 1 heater rated at 1060 Watts. I've also got the factory service manual and it does not have any information about conversion to 240V.

Post# 534874 , Reply# 4   8/3/2011 at 22:35 (4,499 days old) by italmex (milano)        
miele w3033 from 120 to 240

Thanks for all the pictures and the info, what I know is that electronic parts get one line at 120 and one line from the transformet as a neutral. the only thing that work at 120 is the heater. Miele will sell to me the 2100 Watts 240 Volts heater but they will not do anything to help me change the voltage.
So at this point yes it is possible to do it. It will be faster to heat the water and I'm not obligated to keep the water heater "on" all the time I wash. Plus in some short programs that I need hot water (60° or 70°) the machine will reach it. In some cases the F20 after a wash will come out so.... and plus a wash cycle will be cheaper.
Thanks again for you info.

ps coud you please tell me what it means "rinse process" in the program list? I turn it on but I don't see the difference. Thanks

Post# 534878 , Reply# 5   8/3/2011 at 23:13 (4,499 days old) by vacfanatic ()        

Post# 534879 , Reply# 6   8/3/2011 at 23:25 (4,499 days old) by italmex (milano)        

Thanks, hope to see my miele at 240 and if you have any idea please let me know. Thanks. Miele is a great machine.

Post# 534930 , Reply# 7   8/4/2011 at 09:18 (4,499 days old) by mysteryclock (Franklin, TN)        

mysteryclock's profile picture
Another alternative, if you don't already have a W3033, is to get a Little Giant (PW6065). They are quite spendy ($4k US$ vs. $2K for the W3033) but they come already wired for 240v, can do a 95C boil wash and can be had in any color you want as long as it is stainless steel! With those you'd also maintain your warranty coverage running at 240v, unlike a conversion which would pretty much cause Miele to laugh and hang up the phone. And, in spite of the price differences, it wouldn't take too many blown components in a W3033 paid for out of pocket to close the gap between it and the Little Giant.

If only Miele would introduce the Octoplus in the US for land-bound (non-Marine) customers. Now that's a washer!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mysteryclock's LINK

Post# 534931 , Reply# 8   8/4/2011 at 09:21 (4,499 days old) by mysteryclock (Franklin, TN)        

mysteryclock's profile picture
Actually, minor correction - the Little Giant runs at 208v, not 240v oddly enough. But still boil-wash capable.

Post# 534932 , Reply# 9   8/4/2011 at 09:23 (4,499 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
Miele will sell to me the 2100 Watts 240 Volts heater but they will not do anything to help me change the voltage.

Add a relay.

Control/energize the relay with the 120v normally applied to the heater.
Get your 240v for the heater from outside the machine.

Post# 534936 , Reply# 10   8/4/2011 at 09:34 (4,499 days old) by vacfanatic ()        

I know this is just an opinion, but I don't think of a Miele as being a brand of machine to hack on by adding relays etc. I paid $2,000 for mine so that would keep me from ever moding it, but I guess it depends on personal taste and how much a person paid for it.

:-) I love mine though, I got it in Jan 2010 and I just passed 1000 hours on it. Zero problems. According to design specifications, I have another 19,000 hours left on the bearings before they may need replacing. They are rated for 20,000 hours.


Post# 534942 , Reply# 11   8/4/2011 at 10:25 (4,499 days old) by italmex (milano)        

The machine that I have is 20 mons old with 1250 working hrs. I'm happy with that. The thing is that for a 1/2 or 3/4 full load the machine will not get at hot temp. on extra white program unless I add extended. The programs that this Miele manage are from the european models with 2100W heater. Only the custom program is helping me with hot temp. The program time stops until gets the temp. and then it go on.

Post# 534944 , Reply# 12   8/4/2011 at 10:30 (4,499 days old) by italmex (milano)        

I didn't buy the pw6065 for basicaly 2 reasons. first the price and second whit 30000 working hr for 2 people it will last for 40 years and honestly I can get a little tired to it every day.

Post# 534958 , Reply# 13   8/4/2011 at 12:00 (4,499 days old) by AZREOSpecialist ()        

@ italmex

I dont' know where you are getting the information that the W3033 programming is from European models. No, it's not. The programming in the W3033 and W48XX were designed for the US market. Max temps only go to 158F regardless of your heater output and cycle times are decidedly non-European. Spending the time, money and effort in making a useless modification to your machine would appear to be a disaster waiting to happen.

If you want true European cycles, why didn't you just buy a true 220v Miele or an Asko? If upgrading your machine to 220v also added European cycle times, a true profile wash, and boil temps then it would be worth it. But what you are proposing will do none of these.

Post# 534970 , Reply# 14   8/4/2011 at 12:19 (4,499 days old) by italmex (milano)        

If you check the time on normal (cotton in EU), it will be the same that offers a w3000 series in EU. pillows, outwear, delicate,wool, etc are exacly like in EU machines (3000 series), extra white is made for US market. Sanitize is the same like in EU. If you are taking about w4842 programs like confoter the heat will not turn on because 1060w is not enough to heat a 8kg. wash.
Again, the only thing that I'm interested is to know how to change from 120 to 240 so it will not matter the program or the temp. the machine reach it plus it will be faster and cheaper.

Post# 534971 , Reply# 15   8/4/2011 at 12:21 (4,499 days old) by italmex (milano)        

220V domestic miele models are out of market at the moment. That is the reason I have a 120V machine.

Post# 535075 , Reply# 16   8/4/2011 at 18:05 (4,498 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Only thing that I'm interested is to know how to change

launderess's profile picture
You do not know if it will result in any significant savings because you do not know the parameters of how the machine is programmed. For all you know Miele for reasons not disclosed to the public may control the heating portion of a cycle regardless of how much power is used.

You also do not know what the machine will do in response to heating water faster. It may proceed with the rest of the cycle as programmed, or it could speed-up the remainder of the cycles.

Post# 535323 , Reply# 17   8/6/2011 at 09:59 (4,497 days old) by AZREOSpecialist ()        

@ italmex

Is the W3033 not cleaning to your satisfaction? My W4842 has no problem heating an 8kg load to158F. That's what it was designed to do and that's exactly what it does. A 1,000-watt heater is just fine to heat up to 160F-170F. In fact, Miele sells a 110v machine in Australia that heats to 200F. Maybe a cheaper alternative would be to figure out how to get that Australian firmware onto your machine to allow for higher temps without needing you to make all these modifications.

I still think a better, cheaper, and more effective alternative is to sell your Miele set and get an Asko 220v instead.

Post# 535335 , Reply# 18   8/6/2011 at 11:00 (4,497 days old) by italmex (milano)        

Thanks. The miele you are taking about is in Canada and yes it gets up to 95°C. My point is that the machine gets the temp. faster so it will be cheaper at 240v. What probably whatI have to do is change the relay for the heater, change the heater to a 220V 2100W and disconnect the transformer. The heat element is about $80-85 so maybe with $120 the change is over. Thanks

Post# 535418 , Reply# 19   8/6/2011 at 21:03 (4,496 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi AZReo,


No idea why Miele would be selling a 110v machine here, everything is 240v 10amps, 2400watts.


Italmex, you're still using the same amount of power to raise the temperature of the water from x to y.  If it's limited to 1000watts on 110v it'll just take twice as long as it would on 2000watts on 220v.  The amount of watts used is still exactly the same, it's just the time that changes.


I can select US programs on my Miele, also Euro and Sweden, it also lets me program the heater wattage and drum size.  In the wiring schematic, where is the transformer, is it in line with the power cord, or connected after the fact?






Post# 535429 , Reply# 20   8/6/2011 at 22:03 (4,496 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        


It will be no cheaper at all.

Electricity is sold in cents per kilowatt hour (Kwh).

If you use a new heater element with double the wattage, it will heat twice as fast but that is because it uses twice as much power. The number of Kwh will be the same.

Changing to 240 volts allows you to use a higher wattage element, but that just means your machine will chew up the Kwh's faster. The total number of Kwh will be about the same.

Is your house supply 240v or 120v? If you have 120 (110) at home now, the ONLY advantage you could get from converting the machine to 240v is a faster cycle, because the water temp setting will be reached quicker. The other things you want such as higher temperatures, are decided by the machine's programming and will NOT change if you convert the voltage.

Remember that the electronics in the machine (the microprocessor and control circuits) will almost certainly run from 5volts and 12volts DC - there is another power supply inside, on the circuit board, that changes the 240v Ac down to 5v and 12v DC for the control circuitry. So it doesn't matter what voltage supply the machine runs from, the programming, including maximum temperatures, will remain the same.

It appears that this machine is made basically as a 240v machine, with a transformer to step up the 120v supply to 240v for the motor, pump, controller, other circuits, with only the heater element being supplied 120v direct from the mains. That heating element will already be switched by a relay.

In effect, you supply 120 volts AC to the machine. It then is fed through a transformer to supply 240 volts to the controller. (and motor, etc.) that 240 volts is then stepped down again to the low voltage control circuits (5 or 12 volts). They switch a relay which connects the 120v supply direct to the special 120V element. (NOT via the transformer.)

If you were to proceed to a modification to 240 volts, you would NOT need to add a relay, the existing heater will already be fed via a relay. You would have to check that the relay is rated for 240 volts, too. I would NOT attempt a conversion and advise you to drop the idea.


Post# 535440 , Reply# 21   8/7/2011 at 00:35 (4,496 days old) by italmex (milano)        

thanks for the advise. The idea to change 120 to 240 is basicaly to get the temp faster. This machine have for example the short ones (cotton) that will not wait to reach the programe temp. run the time and drain finishing the wash cycle. Basically this is the idea, be faster. About the electricity I'm sure it will be cheaper. and yes the only thing that runs at 120 is the heat element. The other parts run at 220-240, 50-60Hz.

Post# 535482 , Reply# 22   8/7/2011 at 09:03 (4,496 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

"I'm sure it will be cheaper..."

It won't. It's a scientific fact.

Post# 535558 , Reply# 23   8/7/2011 at 17:50 (4,495 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        

mrb627's profile picture
Wait, are you saying that Miele doesn't hit the target temps?


Post# 535585 , Reply# 24   8/7/2011 at 19:05 (4,495 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Not All Front Loaders With Heaters

launderess's profile picture
Even European versions past or present will hold the timer until set temperature.

It all comes down to what parameters the timer/mother board is set for versus incoming water temperature against desired temp.

For instance my mechanical/electronic Miele will only stay in the heating portion of the cycle based upon timer settings (factory). Once the time is up in either "long" or "short" cycles the timer will advance to the next portion of the cycle. Mind you the heater will stay on until the thermostat registers the desired temp and shuts it off. However if the incoming water was cold or very cold and one chose a very high wash temp (>140 or >170) there is good chance the wash cycle will end before water reaches that temperature.

OTHO my Miele has 3000 watts of heating power so in theory that should be more than enough juice to take ice water to boiling in the allowed amount of time.

Given how Miele has gone to all 120v washers with only around 1000 watts of heating power, one can see how a short cycle coupled with cold fill with cold or very cold water could cause problems reaching hot or very hot temperatures.

Post# 535597 , Reply# 25   8/7/2011 at 20:17 (4,495 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        

mrb627's profile picture
In this case, it seems that the Asko is a better value. Or grab a Bosch machine while you still can...


Post# 535624 , Reply# 26   8/7/2011 at 22:27 (4,495 days old) by italmex (milano)        

Sorry buy miele is much better that asko. asko is now owned by merloni family, same as ariston washers so... miele is better. About bosch, yes is good but....still with miele. About my Miele w3033 the only program that stop time until gets temp is the custom one. All the others are moved by time no temp. So custom program is the only one that it dosn't matter the incoming temp of the water and the short or extended program, it gets the temp. Thatis the reason I'm looking to change 120 to 240.

Post# 535702 , Reply# 27   8/8/2011 at 12:48 (4,495 days old) by AZREOSpecialist ()        

@ brisnat81

I meant Canada, not Australia.

@ mrb627

I totally agree. Get a machine built for 240v.

@ italmex

Your costs will not change, it's a mathematical fact. No amount of "I believe it will be cheaper" will change the math. If your machine takes 10 minutes to heat with 220v, it will take 20 minutes using 110v. The wattage used will be the same, just over a longer period of time using lower voltage. But the total energy expended is the same and will cost exactly the same. Math is math regardless of what you "think" or "believe".

Also, I challenge your conclusions on how the W3033 behaves in Custom vs. other cycles. I have a W4842 with essentially the same firmware, voltage, etc. My machine uses more water than yours. It never has trouble hitting temps on any cycle. However, i also have the machine hooked up to cold AND hot water as it was designed. Feeding the machine only cold water will not function correctly - the W4842 and W3033 were not designed as cold-fill only machines.

Post# 535724 , Reply# 28   8/8/2011 at 14:15 (4,494 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
The Dealer Passes

launderess's profile picture
I give up, as the guy will not be moved! *LOL*

Had a feeling that he is using his Miele as a cold fill only which indeed could cause problems. There just isn't enough heating power to take cold water to anything but perhaps 100F or if pushed about 120F (and evne then), within the cycle times alloted on these machines.

There is also the fact many modern detergents work so well in cold or cool water that things will be mostly clean by the time temperature reaches anywhere near "hot".

Post# 535733 , Reply# 29   8/8/2011 at 15:25 (4,494 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Cold Water Detergents

mrb627's profile picture
I agree. I think the cold water formulas work quite well and are the wave of the future. I was told that a washing machine with an on board heater will be hard to find in 5 years so we had better get used to it. I would also suspect that like more efficient dishwashers, clothes washer cycles will get longer too.


Post# 535741 , Reply# 30   8/8/2011 at 16:29 (4,494 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Longer Cycle Times

launderess's profile picture
Oh I don't know about that.

Long cycle times + low water levels = textile damage.

Consumer Reports amoung other sources have been reporting for some time now the modern front loading washing machines aren't as gentle on fabrics as they once were. These problems only began increasing when washers began using less water and longer cycle times to make the "Energy Star" people happy.

Dishes are another matter and can withstand far more abuse. However given the *fairy pee* stream of water used in many modern dishwashers it's not like they are being scoured to death during those long cycles.

Regarding onboard heaters most commercial laundromat machines manage to get on without them, as do many other washers used in that setting. However lack of warm or hot water does mean detergents must be stronger (and also perhaps other chemicals such as bleach) to balance the famous five variables off good laundry practice.

Post# 535765 , Reply# 31   8/8/2011 at 17:23 (4,494 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Actually... Whirlpool in Europe sells front loaders with a SuperEco cycle. WP claims it uses 63% less energy than a boil wash while getting clothes just as clean at 140F. I haven't used it yet but the manual says it mostly soaks the load with little tumbling - that's why it takes 5:09 hrs.

Post# 535791 , Reply# 32   8/8/2011 at 20:02 (4,494 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Well Yes

launderess's profile picture
Have various soaking cycles on my Miele as well. Since soaking by nature means less mechanical action than a normal cycle one expects it to be more gentle on fabrics.

Post# 535829 , Reply# 33   8/9/2011 at 03:55 (4,494 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
I wonder when one gets into the Technical program of this machine if there are Country settings. My Miele LaPerla dishwasher has that where I can access settings. The Austrailian setting changes the cycles and temp ranges, there is a Southern Europe, Japan, USA and I cant remember the rest but it does change the programming some. You might want to check that out before you go tinkering with stuff and especially with a young machine like this.
Another thing is that 1000 watts is plenty to heat the water in the machine. Its not like your heating an entire tub of water. I know in my Miele 4800 washer it doesnt take long at all for the water to get nice and hot and in my opinion 158F is plenty hot.

Post# 536011 , Reply# 34   8/9/2011 at 17:07 (4,493 days old) by AZREOSpecialist ()        


Yes, the W3033 and W48XX series have country settings that can be selected from the "secret" program menu. However, at least on the W48XX, selecting anything but USA causes all cycles to default to about 40 mins. It doesn't matter if you select Sanitary or Normal or Delicate. So at least with the W48XX, I would not recommend selecting another country's settings. Doing so will render your machine essentially useless until you change it back.

Post# 536041 , Reply# 35   8/9/2011 at 21:17 (4,493 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
I don't plan on changing country settings on my 4800 washer. I am happy with it the way it is. I was saying for this instance where he wants a higher temp he might be able to access the Programming. If I had a 3033 machine I would be happy the way it is. I would tinker with the water plus but that's it. Besides the 4800 doesn't have a screen and I can't figure out the flashes on the panel to save my life.

Post# 536375 , Reply# 36   8/11/2011 at 10:37 (4,492 days old) by AZREOSpecialist ()        

The W3033 and W48XX clean clothes very well and at lower temps than their European brethren. These machines were designed for US style washing, utilizing the large 40-50 gallon hot water supply at most American homes. THESE WERE NOT DESIGNED AS COLD FILL ONLY MACHINES AND SHOULD NOT BE USED IN THAT MANNER.

If used as designed, there should be no issues "hitting temp". In fact, I use the Normal cycle for most of my laundry - and NORMAL doesn't even use the built-in heater. The fiberglass outer drum of the Miele W48XX (don't know if the W3033 is fiberglass) is an excellent insulator, so the Normal cycle works just fine for the vast majority of laundry needs.

As has already been mentioned, adding a 220v heating element to a 110v machine may accelerate the heating time, but it will do nothing to save electricity or lower your bill. The only practical purpose for making this modification would be to allow your machine to heat up to 200F, but as is fairly obvious the firmware in neither machine will allow for this possibility. The target temps are hard coded and cannot be changed via programming.

My question is this... doesn't the machine clean well enough as-is? If you really need a true profile wash and super high temps, but don't want to buy an Asko or another brand, you can always get the Little Giants or import a 220v Miele machine from the UK or Australia. The OP seems to be handy with taking his machine apart, making modifications and potentially voiding his warranty. So if you're going to do that, why not just import the right machine to do the job and service it yourself?

Post# 536457 , Reply# 37   8/11/2011 at 19:19 (4,491 days old) by italmex (milano)        
miele w3033 120 240

Thanks. The normal program will not heat only for commercial purpose. With that program special made Miele reach 139kw per year and the star energy in the US and Canada. That is the only reason the program will not heat. In my case I'm looking for the 240 posibility only because here in Mexico or were I live (Mexico City) hte electricity is a little cheaper then gas. the only good machines Miele sell in Mexico are 3033 4842. The second one is too big for 2 people so the 3033 is perfect. A kitchen shop tried to sell the Asko but with no tecnical support ..... no thanks. Again a pw6065 woud be perfect but keep the same machine for a 30,000 hours work (a lot of years) no thanks. I know Miele will last for years but at this point the tecnology moves so fast that this machine in 10 years will be a classic.

About the 240 volts 2100W heater yes I'm intrested so I can wash a full load in a short program and I will have the guaranty that my Miele reach the temp in no time.

Did you try to wash something white that you were washing at Normal to a sanitary program??? try and you will see how white it will get. And if you use the Miele detergent.... just check.

Post# 536519 , Reply# 38   8/12/2011 at 08:53 (4,491 days old) by AZREOSpecialist ()        

@ italmex

I don't wash whites on Normal. I wash darks and colored clothes on Normal. I wash whites using Extra White on Very Warm or HOT. I have rarely needed to use the Sanitary cycle - I simply have no need for the 158F temperature. That is too hot for most fabrics - that is, if you want your fabrics to last.

Post# 536746 , Reply# 39   8/13/2011 at 09:28 (4,490 days old) by AZREOSpecialist ()        

Just a quick clarification to my previous post... in the handful of times that I did use Sanitary, I had no reason to believe it did not achieve the correct temperature. In fact, I checked the error codes in the service menu and I did not see any error codes relating to temperature or heater.

Post# 536810 , Reply# 40   8/13/2011 at 15:23 (4,489 days old) by italmex (milano)        

It is correct,at sanitary the machine reach the temp to 70°.

Post# 537353 , Reply# 41   8/16/2011 at 12:35 (4,487 days old) by italmex (milano)        

Hi, no body have any good advice about how to change the sistem from 120 to 240. I know that is not so difficult but some good help is welcome.

Post# 537552 , Reply# 42   8/17/2011 at 11:34 (4,486 days old) by AZREOSpecialist ()        

Italmex, I don't think anyone here thinks that what you're doing is a good idea. Why don't you have an electrician come out to your house to take a look at the machine and the wiring? You will probably get a faster answer that way as opposed to waiting for someone here to help.

Post# 537670 , Reply# 43   8/17/2011 at 19:33 (4,485 days old) by italmex (milano)        


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